9/11 - Child in England remembers being an American firefighter

Discussion in 'Children's Past Lives -Age 7 & under' started by ukmom, Oct 26, 2006.

  1. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Summer785 - Maybe. Dan Potter may have been a fellow firefighter with whom UK_mom's son's past-life personality worked. Problem is we don't have a name or rank or company or firehouse or anything that we could use to connect him to Dan. To complicate matters Dan worked as member of several FDNY companies before 9/11. Most FDNY firefighters from 2001 knew dozens (if not dozens and dozens) of their fellow firefighters who were killed that day. (343 members of the FDNY were killed on 9/11.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2021
  2. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Summer785 - Connection between UK_mom's son's past-life personality and Dan Potter, John Morabito, or Ladder 10? Only one firefighter from Ladder 10 was killed on 9/11 but the connection would be pretty flimsy without further information.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2021
  3. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    On the other hand Dan Potter, although permanently assigned to Ladder 31 in the South Bronx, had recently volunteered for a 90-day (30-day?) temporary assignment with Ladder 10 at the "10&10" (10-house/ Engine 10/Ladder 10) on Liberty St. right across the street from the WTC complex and a half a block down the street from 2 WTC (the south tower). This was very convenient for Dan as he and his wife Jean lived in an apartment only two blocks away in Battery Park City (Dennis Smith, Report from Ground Zero, 2002: 45). So now Ladder 10's John Morabito's reply to Dan's wife in the underground WTC concourse (mall) that he knew Dan and knew that he was OK makes sense, since Dan, in fact, was working with them at Ladder 10 at the 10&10 firehouse.

    UK mom mentioned that her son brought up the name "pata" multiple times (post #1, page 1) during role play with his sisters. Assuming that "pata" refers to Dan Potter then it is entirely possible that UK mom's son was one of the fallen firefighters from the 10&10 firehouse (aka Ten-House). I believe Ladder 10 (mercifully) lost only one firefighter on 9/11, a young probationary firefighter named Sean T. I'll check to see how many FFs were lost from Engine 10.

    So Summer785 may have swerved into something here.

    Here is a short obituary for FDNY firefighter Sean T. :
    https://www.firehero.org/fallen-firefighter/sean-patrick-tallon/

    PS. Engine 10 lost a Lieutenant named Gregg A. and 2 firefighters. Were any more lost from this firehouse? I'll check.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
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  4. Summer785

    Summer785 Active Member

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    Her son’s PP. Because he was mentioned “Pata” or whatever so much.
     
  5. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Ten house lost 5 active firefighters and 1 retired Lt who was working as a Fire Safety Officer in the South Tower (2 WTC) when it collapsed. Of the five active FFs there were 2 officers and 3 firefighters who were lost -- 1 from Ladder 10 and 3 from Engine 10 (1 officer and 2 FFs). Probably a toss-up between Lt A. (of Engine 10) and the young probie Sean T. of Ladder 10. UK mom's comment about dogs in the back of a truck suggests a life-style centered on the outdoors -- but this could apply to either man. I think you can rule out the retired fire safety officer, and one or two of the active firefighters/ officers ( eg., Lt. Steve H. who was an accomplished musician) but we'd need more detailed info to pin it down to one individual.

    PS. No losses reported for Dan Potter's home company, Ladder 31, which keeps the focus on the FDNY 10&10 firehouse ("Ten-house") in lower Manhattan across the street from the WTC complex (124 Liberty St.). But then again, Ladder 5, a company that Dan Potter also worked in, took heavy losses -- 2 Lieutenants and 6 firefighters.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
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  6. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    UK Mom: "From around the age 3 he began giving us names. He especially talked lots about Lou and even gave us a surname. I had taken Lou to be a first name he was referring to but recently became aware that in America they have fire Leutenants. Would someone in the fire service refer to themselves as LEU(with surname) rather than Leutenant?. During role playing with his sisters he has talked lots about "pater/pata" is this an american term/name? I should add we personally don't know of any people with the names he mentioned. He has no problems around fire but is wary of elevators." (post #1, page 1)

    Two possibilities: "Lou" (Leu/ Lieu) could either refer to the informal, familiar, direct address form of "Lieutenant" (as in "OK, Lieu", "Got it, Lieu", "Lieu! What about . . .") or it could refer to the short form of the first name Louis, ie., "Lou".

    1) "Lou"(Leu/Lieu) short (for "Lieutenant") is the short, familiar, almost affectionate, direct address form of "Lieutenant". It is used by a Firefighter when addressing a Lieutenant, more than likely, his Lieutenant. A Fire Officer (Chief, Captain, Lieutenant) would not address a fellow Fire Officer as "Lou" (Leu/ Lieu), but instead use the officer's first name if he knew him, or Chief, Captain, or Lieutenant, or Chief, Captain, or Lieutenant So-and-So, if he didn't know him, out of respect for the rank. Point being, "Lou" (Leu/ Lieu) UK mom's son may have been referring to his Lieutenant, or whichever Lieutenant he happened to be associated with, presumably at the time of his death. Obviously, if UK mom's son was addressing one of his sisters (presumably older sister) than this could be very significant, as we suspect that it is a Lieutenant within a company or firehouse that both UK mom's son's Past Life Personality (PP) and FF Dan Potter worked in, ie., Ladder 10, Ladder 5, Ladder 31 (Dan Potter's home company), Engine 10. Since no one was lost from Ladder 31, we have to assume UK mom's son was a FF with Ladder 10 (Sean Tallon), Engine 10 (2 FFs lost), or Ladder 5 (6 FFs lost), all lost inside 1 WTC when the north tower collapsed at 10:28 am on 9/11.

    The other possibility is,

    2) "Lou" short for "Louis" the first name of a firefighter (or fire officer). UK mom said that "He especially talked lots about Lou and even gave us a surname." If her son were referring to himself, that is, his own past-life personality, then, again assuming that "pata" refers to Dan Potter, he may have been referring to Louis Arena, one of the firefighters from Ladder 5, who died in 1 WTC (the north tower) when it collapsed. Notice how UK mom phrases the reference (UK mom: "Would someone in the fire service refer to themselves as LEU (with surname). . . ?). Answer, no, he wouldn't. He wouldn't even use "Lieu" (Lou) + Surname when referring to a Lieutenant So-and-So, he would say, Lieutenant So-and-So. The way UK mom phrases it, we'd have to assume that "Lou" + Surname means Louis So-and-So. If this Louis died on 9/11 and "pata" refers to Dan Potter, who worked with Ladder 5 for most of 2001 before being temporarily re-assigned to Ladder 10 for 90 days sometime during the summer of 2001, then he could be referring to a) himself, ie., 32-year-old FF Lou Arena, Ladder 5, who died in the north tower on 9/11, or b) a fellow firefighter named Lou Arena, Ladder 5, who he must have known well, and may have died with him in the north tower.

    PS. No other FFs, first name "Louis", from Ladder 5, Ladder 10, or Engine 10 are listed among the fallen 9/11 firefighters. No firefighters from Ladder 31 were lost on 9/11.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
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  7. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    UK mom: "Would someone in the fire service refer to themselves as LEU (with surname). . ."

    Here UK mom means -- Would someone refer to themselves as Lieu (informal, familiar direct address form of Lieutenant) + Surname. Answer: No. Or to anyone else, for that matter. "Lieu" isn't used with a surname. So, "Lou" must mean "Louis".

    In an earlier post to this thread (post 7, page 1), Deborah mentioned that UK mom said her son responded to the number "2". Googling FDNY Ladder 5, one finds that Ladder 5 is quartered with Engine 24, and Battalion 2. (A battalion is a unit in the FDNY command structure above company level). A Battalion Chief commands 5 or 6 companies (3 or 4 firehouses) and is headquartered in one of its company firehouses, in this case, the firehouse housing Engine 24/ Ladder 5 in Greenwich Village, Manhattan, NYC. Everyone from Engine 24 made it out alive. Everyone from Ladder 5 who went into the towers, sadly, did not make it out and were killed when the north tower collapsed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_workers_killed_in_the_September_11_attacks).

    But who was UK mom's son referring to when he said "Lou (with Surname)"? Firefighter Louis Arena who died with his mates from Ladder 5 (2 Lieutenants and 5 other firefighters) or an as yet unidentified Louis from Ladder 5 (or Engine 24) who survived 9/11?

    A FDNY company consists of a captain, 3 Lieutenants, and 20 -25 firefighters.

    Furthermore: Dan Potter (whom UK mom's son may have referred to as "Pata") was a firefighter in FDNY Ladder 5 from about 1994 to June 2001, almost 7 years. He then transferred to Ladder 31 in July 2001 before taking a temporary assignment to Ladder 10 in mid- to late-August 2001 in the the 10&10 house in the shadow of the WTC complex. He happened to be off-duty on 9/11 and attending a Lieutenant exam study course on Staten Island when the planes flew into the WTC towers. He survived the attacks and retired from the FDNY in 2002.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2021
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  8. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Re-reading UK mom's posts I can't find anything linking her son's past-life personality to 9/11, except maybe that he was an American fireman who died before her son's birth in October 2001. That's it. Anybody: Where's the connection to 9/11?
     
  9. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    UKmom posted this (post #16, page 1) regarding her 5-year-old son: "During role playing as well as names and giving his sisters orders he talked about putting his dogs in the back of the truck which I found a bit strange as we didn't own a dog (although we do now) and it was all very matter of fact." (boldface added).

    I have read that people (English-speaking people) in Birmingham, England and throughout the western midlands of England do say and spell mom "mom" as we do in America , and not as do the rest of England where they say "mum" for mom (familiar form of "mother"). That fact notwithstanding, do people in the western midlands of England also say "truck" either for a personal vehicle or for a commercial vehicle, where I believe common British English uses "lorry". What do the British say for what we in America would call a pick-up truck or simply truck when referring to a personal vehicle? Do you really say "truck"? Do you have a word for personal, privately-owned and privately-used lorries, or do you even have pick-up trucks in the UK?

    Is this UK "mom" an American mom living in England, or do you British readers think she is just catering to an American website, when she calls herself UKmom and uses the word truck?

    Why would a 5-year-old British boy use the word "truck", if indeed that is the word he used? If so, that would be remarkable. If not, this is an example of a mom "interpreting" what their young child is saying rather that telling us the actual language that the child used (indicated by using quotation marks).

    UK readers please help us out here.

    Also, in the UK would you ever say fire truck or do you use fire engine for both fire engine and fire truck (in American usage, a fire engine is a different apparatus than a fire truck which is also called a ladder truck). What would you call the apparatus that comes equipped with those very long extendable ladders mounted on top of the vehicle? In America they are called fire trucks, trucks, or ladder trucks.

    PS. When in doubt ask the internet. Here's a blog that goes over the differences between AmE truck and BrE lorry:
    https://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2009/05/trucks-and-lorries.html

    The UK really don't/doesn't have pick-up trucks, so in the event they would happen to see one, they would call it a pick-up truck. I don't think they would call it a truck, however, so I'm still mystified by UKmom's statement attributed to her son ("he talked about putting his dogs in the back of the truck"). What did she mean? What did he mean?
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2021
  10. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Looking over UK mom's posts once again, I can definitely report that she is English or at least British (not American) --- she uses words like "whilst" (BrE) and spells program (AmE spelling) "programme" (BrE spelling); she writes things like "our" firemen (meaning UK firemen) and "fire service" which is more British terminology. So why does she also use "elevator" (AmE) instead of BrE lift? Why does she have her son say "putting his dogs in the back of his truck", when BrE doesn't use the word truck. Her 5-year-old, presumably a young British boy, really said "truck"? Sure, he could have picked it up from watching TV or the movies, but still . . . . That UKmom referred to herself as UKmom is not noteworthy since native English speakers from Birmingham, England and the western midlands in general use "mom" for more common BrE "mum".

    Only two of the 343 FDNY firefighters and fire officers killed on 9/11 had first name "Louis": FF Louis Arena of Ladder 5 and the Captain of Rescue 5, the Rescue Company for Staten Island. Furthermore, this Captain had been working for Rescue 5 since 1994, nearly 7 years up to 9/11. Dan Potter (our so-called "pata"), however, never worked for any FDNY company on Staten Island (although he was attending a Lieutenant exam course there on the morning of 9/11). But he had worked with Ladder 5 for nearly 7 years (1994 to June 2001), so presumably he would have known the members of Ladder 5/ Engine 24/ Battalion 2 fairly well. No members of Engine 24 were lost. Ladder 5 lost 2 Lieutenants and 5 other firefighters; Battalion 2 lost two Battalion Chiefs and a staff FF. Of course, we're assuming UKmom's thread is about a deceased firefighter/ fire officer lost on 9/11 which could be totally wrong since there is nothing tying her posts to 9/11. It's also true that the Louis ("Lou") she claimed her son talked about, may have been a 9/11 survivor, in which case, we would need to look over an FDNY active duty roster for 2001, if such a thing even exists, to look for any other possible FFs named "Louis" from Ladder 5 (or Ladder 31, Ladder 10 etc) with which Dan Potter also served. It's also possible that the "Lou" UKmom's son mentioned was the deceased firefighter himself, but, as I've been hinting at the last several posts, all this is pure speculation and to be taken with a grain of salt.
     
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  11. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    This is going to be a long post.

    UK mom:

    “From around the age 3 he began giving us names. He especially talked lots about Lou and even gave us a surname.”

    “I had taken Lou to be a first name he was referring to but recently became aware that in America they have fire Lieutenants. Would someone in the fire service refer to themselves as LEU(with surname) rather than Lieutenant?”

    “I myself did a search of firefighters who sadly died on 9/11 and had a partial match of a surname (not the first name) he mentioned.”

    UKmom’s son gave her the name of a firefighter he had known and presumably worked with. The name was Lou (as in “Louis”) which apparently didn’t match the surname (or partial surname) she found on the list of 343 fallen FDNY firefighters who died on 9/11. She then thought maybe the “Lou” wasn’t a first name, but may perhaps it was to be interpreted as “Lieu”, short for “Lieutenant”. Why would she have changed her mind? Could it be that the match (or partial match) of the surname was associated with a Lieutenant she had found on the list of fallen firefighters? If so, that would give us a clue. We would be looking for a FDNY company or firehouse that had lost a lieutenant, whose surname was a match or partial match of the surname her son had given her.

    What UKmom couldn’t figure out was what her son had meant by “pata”, a name used by her son during role play with his sisters. Summer785 guessed that this “pata” was somehow related to some FDNY firefighter “Dan Pata” mentioned in a youtube 9/11 video. When I watched the clip, I recognized the name of the firefighter as Dan Potter. FF Dan Potter had survived 9/11 as a member on temporary assignment with Ladder 10 at the “Ten House” (Engine 10 – Ladder 10 on Liberty St. right across the street from the WTC). He had only been with Ladder 10 for about 3 – 4 weeks before 9/11. Prior to Ladder 10, he had worked with Ladder 31 at the Engine 82 – Ladder 31 firehouse from June to mid-August 2001. Prior to Ladder 31, he had worked with Ladder 5 (and had been one of its chauffeurs) at Engine 24 – Ladder 5 firehouse for nearly 7 years (1994 – June 2001). This was a big clue as now we would be looking for a firehouse where Dan Potter had worked prior to 9/11.

    But what to do with the first name “Lou” that her son had given her? It couldn’t go with the surname (or partial surname) that her son had also given her, otherwise she would have picked it out from the list of fallen firefighters’ names. So now we have another name, Lou or “Louis” who must have survived 9/11. (There were only 2 FDNY firefighters named “Louis” who died on 9/11, neither of whom had a surname that came close to matching the surname UK mom’s son had given her.) This becomes another clue. Now we have a firehouse where Dan Potter had worked, had a FF named “Louis” who worked at that same firehouse and survived 9/11, and had a lieutenant from that firehouse who did not survive 9/11.

    Here is the list of firehouses where Dan Potter had worked since 1994:

    Engine 24 – Ladder 5 firehouse.

    Engine 82 – Ladder 31 firehouse.

    Engine 10 – Ladder 10 firehouse.

    Thankfully, no one from Engine 24, Engine 82, or Ladder 31 were lost. Ladder 10 lost only one man – a young probationary firefighter named Sean T. Ladder 5, however, lost 2 lieutenants. And Engine 10 lost one lieutenant.

    (By the way, Dan Potter was friends with both lieutenants from Ladder 5 – Lieutenant Vincent G. and Lieutenant Michael W. having been their chauffeur. In fact, Lieutenant W. was a very good friend of Dan’s from what I’ve read. Dan would have known Engine 10’s lieutenant, Lt. Gregg A., but only because he worked in the same firehouse for 3 - 4 weeks in the summer of 2001, but not as a chauffeur.)

    So, if there were a firefighter named “Louis” who survived 9/11 and worked at the same firehouse as Dan Potter and one of the fallen lieutenants, then that would be the firehouse from which UK mom’s son’s PP had departed that ill-fated morning of Sept 11, 2001. He would be one of the firefighters from that firehouse – really, either from Ladder Company 5 of the E-24/L-5 firehouse, or from Engine Company 10 of the E-10/L-10 firehouse, who did not make it back.

    Anybody have a list of active duty FDNY firefighters who worked at Ladder 5 or Engine 10 in 2001-2002? I’d be looking for a FF named Louis on that list.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
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  12. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Assuming "pata" refers to FDNY FF Dan Potter, who survived 9/11, was working a temporary assignment at the 10&10 firehouse ("Tenhouse") from mid- to late- August 2001 - mid- November 2001 (or Oct 2001), and had worked at the Engine 24 - Ladder 5 firehouse (with Ladder 5) for 7 years before that, here is a list of candidate firefighters for UKmom's son's PP (past-life personality):

    Ladder 5 – 9/11 Fallen Firefighters
    Lt. Vincent G., 40
    Lt. Michael W., 51
    FF Louis A., 32
    FF Andrew B., 28
    FF Thomas H., 36
    FF Paul K., 38
    FF John S., 49
    FF Gregory S., 31

    Engine 10 – 9/11 Fallen Firefighters
    Lt. Gregg A., 44
    FF Jeffrey O., 31
    He was a devoted father to his two children‚ as well as to his stepson. He enjoyed fishing and loved to
    camp with his family. . . . He was an avid outdoorsman who loved to fish‚ camp and kayak. He had an
    indescribable love for life.
    FF Paul P., 34

    Ladder 10 – 9/11 Fallen Firefighters
    FF Sean T., 26

    ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_workers_killed_in_the_September_11_attacks )

    UK mom mentioned that her son repeatedly spoke of a "Lou" (short for "Louis") or "Lieu" (short for "Lieutenant") and also mentioned one or more surnames, one of which she could match (or partially match) to a name from the full list of fallen 9/11 firefighters. We figured out that the Lou or Lieu could not be connected to any of the deceased firefighters surnames, since a) if Lou referred to "Louis", ie,, to one of the two fallen 9/11 firefighters named Louis, UK mom would have let us know, and b) "Lieu", short for Lieutenant, is never used with a surname, so "Lieu Surname" is not possible. So, we calculated, Lou must either be the name of a FF who survived 9/11 or deferring to the other possibility, Lou must really be understood as "Lieu", the shorthand way FFs use to address their company Lieutenant (as in "Hey Lieu!, Lieu!, Do we have a ticket (=assignment), Lieu?, etc.). If Lou is short for Louis, we figured, there might have been a FF first name Louis (or Luis) who survived 9/11 and was working at the Engine 24 - Ladder 5 firehouse, or the Engine 10 - Ladder 10 firehouse ("Tenhouse") in 2001. If not, then we have to take Lou to mean Lieu (short for Lieutenant), which would help reduce the number of candidates since only a FF would use the informal address "Lieu" when speaking to a lieutenant in his firehouse. A lieutenant (or captain, or chief) would not use this informal address for a fellow lieutenant (or fire officer).

    The only specific piece of information UK mom gave us -- and you need a specific piece of information or specific pieces of information in order to narrow the list of candidates down to one or two -- is her son's mention of putting "dogs in the back of the truck", implying that her son's PP had dogs (plural) and that he owned a pickup truck. And that he possibly enjoyed the outdoors (presumably with his dogs).

    Could he have meant putting dogs into the back of a fire truck? Ummmm, not really. Firehouses have been known to keep a rescued dog as a firehouse pet on occasion, but not "dogs" plural. And yes, firefighters do rescue pets now and then, but I would still default to the dogs being his dogs and the truck being his pickup truck, which many, many adult American males own (both dogs and pickup trucks). Dan Potter owned a pickup truck on 9/11, and at least one other Ladder 5 FF -- a FF who survived 9/11 -- owned a pickup truck on 9/11, from what I have read.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
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  13. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Attached is a documentary of Tenhouse on 9/11. Dan and Jean Potter are interviewed for the documentary, as well as John M., one of the chauffeurs for Ladder 10, and a proby (probationary firefighter) named Jimmy Brown from Engine 10, who was most likely one of the last firefighters to evacuate the North Tower (1 WTC) just minutes before it collapsed. (Bill Spade, a chauffeur FF for Rescue 5, must have been the last to evacuate as he escaped only seconds before the North Tower collapsed). The video is a very good summary of the 9/11 disaster told by the firemen who were quartered right across the street from the largest terrorist attack in US history, literally in the shadow of the South Tower. The firefighters from Ten House were the first to respond.



    Ladder 10's probationary firefighter, Sean T., age 26, lived at home with his parents in Yonkers, NY (Newsday, Suffolk Edition, 18 Feb 2002, p.23: "T. joined the Marines in 1996 . . . . After leaving the military he worked as an EMT in the Bronx and lived at home with his family [in Yonkers, NY]. In 2000 he joined the [FDNY] as a probationary firefighter at Ladder 10 . . . .") In his obituary (see post #33) his mother talks about Sean playing with the family dog (singular) in the backyard [after work]. We are looking for a FDNY firefighter who owned dogs (plural). UK mom's son mentioned "putting his dogs in the truck". Therefore, Sean T. is not a candidate for UK mom's son's PP.

    Lt. Stephen H, also of Ladder 10, but for some reason listed as a fire officer of Battalion 7, also should not be considered a candidate for UKmom's son's PP. According to his obituary, Lt. H. was an accomplished musician and composer, playing in several rock bands in his free time -- hardly the type to have time for dogs (plural), let alone putting them in the back of a pickup truck.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
  14. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    There were no FDNY Ten House firefighters or fire officers named "Louis" "Lou" (or "Luis" for that matter) in the 9/11 time frame, which means "Lou" must mean "Lieu" (short for Lieutenant) if UKmom's son's PP (past-life personality) were a member of either FDNY Engine Company 10 or Ladder Company 10. Since only firefighters call their Lieutenants "Lieu" (short for Lieutenant), then, if, IF, UKmom's son's PP were a member of Ten House on 9/11, he could only have been a firefighter (FF), not a fire officer. This eliminates Engine 10's Lieutenant Gregg A. (and Ladder 10's Lt. Stephen H.) as candidates for UKmom's son's PP. Ladder 10's Sean T. was eliminated in a prior post (family only owned one dog). Engine 10's FF Jeff O., and Paul P., remain candidates, however unlikely, as FF Dan Potter (UKmom's son's supposed "Pata" or "Patter"), who survived 9/11, was only a member of Ten House for less than 3 weeks before 9/11 (beginning late August 2001).

    FDNY Ten House Members 2000 –2002:

    1. Capt. Gene K., Engine 10
    2. Lt. Gregg A., Engine 10 (deceased 9/11)
    3. Lt. Sean O., Engine 10
    4. Lt. Augie D., Engine 10
    5. Lt. Joseph P., Engine 10
    6. Lt. Joseph M., Engine 10
    7. Lt. Santo B., Engine 10
    8. FF Sal A., Engine 10
    9. FF Mitch C., Engine 10
    10. FF Mark D., Engine 10
    11. FF Terrance R., Engine 10
    12. FF Jeff O., Engine 10 (deceased 9/11)
    13. FF Paul P., Engine 10 (deceased 9/11)
    14. FF FF Dan P., Engine 10
    15. FF John S., Engine 10
    16. FF Gary K., Engine 10
    17. FF Pete D’., Engine 10
    18. FF Vincent G., Engine 10
    19. FF Tony K., Engine 10
    20. FF Garfield B., Engine 10
    21. FF Mike M., Engine 10
    22. FF Rich Z., Engine 10
    23. FF Nick S., Engine 10
    24. FF Gerard (Fitzy) F., Engine 10
    25. FF Steve L., Engine 10
    26. FF Scott G., Engine 10
    27. FF Walter D., Engine 10
    28. FF Joe R., Engine 10
    29. FF Tim D., Engine 10
    30. FF Patrick O'., Engine 10
    31. FF Sean O., Engine 10
    32. FF Anthony H., Engine 10
    33. FF Kurt W., Engine 10
    34. FF Casey C., Engine 10
    35. FF Bob B., Engine 10
    36. FF Chris B., Engine 10
    37. FF Vincent D., Engine 10
    38. FF Tim F., Engine 10
    39. FF Sean J., Engine 10
    40. FF Jason C., Engine 10
    41. FF Rich F., Engine 10
    42. FF Frank N., Engine 10

    1. Capt. Paul M., Ladder 10
    2. Lt. Stephen H., Ladder 10 (deceased 9/11)
    3. Lt. James Cs., Ladder 10
    4. Lt. Matt D., Ladder 10
    5. FF John M., Ladder 10
    6. FF John M., Ladder 10
    7. FF Sean T., Ladder 10 (deceased 9/11)
    8. FF Serge P., Ladder 10
    9. FF Mike C., Ladder 10
    10. FF Kerry H., Ladder 10
    11. FF James C., Ladder 10
    12. FF Kevin E., Ladder 10
    13. FF George B., Ladder 10
    14. FF Eddie T., Ladder 10
    15. FF Rob F., Ladder 10
    16. FF Steve M., Ladder 10
    17. FF Nick C., Ladder 10
    18. FF Dan Potter, Ladder 10
    19. FF Vinny F., Ladder 10
    20. FF Sal C., Ladder 10
    21. FF Jimmy K.i, Ladder 10
    22. FF Kyle R., Ladder 10
    23. FF Ernie A., Ladder 10
    24. FF Joe G., Ladder 10
    25. FF Greg B., Ladder 10
    26. FF Jed T., Ladder 10
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
  15. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    FDNY firefighter Dan Potter (whom UKmom's son may have referred to as "Pata" or "Patter") was a member of Ladder 5 in the Greenwich village district of Manhattan, NYC) from about 1994 to June 2001. He transferred from Ladder 5 to Ladder 31 in the south Bronx in June 2001 before volunteering for a temporary assignment (30 or 90 day) to Ladder 10 down by the World Trade Center in late August 2001. No firefighters were lost from Ladder 31 (or its firehouse quarter's mate, Engine 82), which leaves Ladder 5 as the only other viable company from which to zero in on a candidate for UK mom's son's PP (past-life personality). (Sure, we could try to come up with a match in one of Dan Potter's companies prior to his Ladder 5 assignment . . . but, honestly. . . . I don't think we have to go there).

    Here is the list of candidates we have so far:

    Ladder 5 – 9/11 Fallen Firefighters
    Lt. Vincent ("Vinny") G., Ladder 5
    Lt. Michael W., Ladder 5
    FF Louis "Louey") A., Ladder 5
    FF Andrew B., Ladder 5
    FF Thomas H., Ladder 5
    FF Paul K., Ladder 5
    FF John S., Ladder 5
    FF Gregory S., Ladder 5

    Engine 10 – 9/11 Fallen Firefighters
    FF Jeffrey O., Engine 10 (of the Engine 10 - Ladder 10 firehouse)
    FF Paul P., Engine 10 (of the Engine 10 - Ladder 10 firehouse)

    On further examination, however, we can eliminate at least one of the Ladder 5 firefighters, possibly two.

    Andrew B., 28, didn't start work with the FDNY at Ladder 5 until the summer of 2001, ie., after Dan Potter had already left Ladder 5.
    (Newsday (Suffolk Edition), 01 Mar 2002, p.46.)
    Six probationary firefighters from Class 1 of 2001 who died on 9/11 -- including Andrew B. -- entered FDNY's Fire Academy on May 2 , 2001 . . . (Daily News, New York, New York, 31 Oct 2001, p.26.). They would have attended the academy for their first 13-weeks with FDNY before being assigned to a company the first or second week of August 2001, for an 8-week hands-on experience
    as a professional firefighter, before their graduation in early October 2001. Conclusion: Andrew B. wouldn't have known Dan Potter, so Andrew B. should be eliminated as a candidate.

    According to his obituary, Gregory S .‚ 31‚ firefighter‚ FDNY‚ Ladder 5: "A 10-year FDNY veteran‚ . . . [he] was a relentless weightlifter and tireless runner. . . . S. was an extremely social person. He relished the camaraderie of the firehouse and was known for his free-spirited personality and candor. He had been with Ladder 5 since 1/ 1998; he was born and raised in Brooklyn." According to his brother (a fellow FDNY firefighter) Greg did own a pickup truck. However, in my opinion,Greg did not fit the personality type to own a dog, let alone dogs (plural).

    So we really should eliminate Andrew B and Greg S as candidates for UKmom's son's past-life personality.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021 at 9:31 PM
  16. Summer785

    Summer785 Active Member

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    FF Jeff O. lived in upstate NY and is shown in a photo in the video GSITS posted with a pickup truck in the background. I can see where that family could have dogs living in that country setting, especially since Jeff must have been away a lot for work in the city.

    The photo is at 27:31 timestamp.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
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  17. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    upload_2021-10-1_14-17-38.png

    FDNY FF Jeff O.'s wife, Denise O. and blue truck parked in front of a tiny house in upstate New York. Date stamp 10.31. year not legible (presumably taken before 9/11/2001).
    Sharp eye, Summer785!

    The fence in lower left corner would be the only caveat that I can see (suggesting it could be the next door neighbor's truck). Even still, it's a great lead!

    Any guesses as to brand and type of truck? My guess would be a 1995 Ford F-150 2-door XLT extended cab pickup truck with 4WD:
    https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-150/1997/extended-cab/

    (Must be logged in to the forum to see the screen shot at a viewable size. If not, just go up to the video clip posted on this thread, about 2 or 3 posts above this one (post #43), and go to 27:36 time stamp).
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
  18. Summer785

    Summer785 Active Member

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    I think the truck is an even older model especially given the rust but I can’t say for sure. I sent the photo to dad who is a big Ford guy and always had Ford F-150’s since forever. We had one in the 80s that looks like this one but I’ll let you know what he thinks!
    I think if it is the neighbors truck that doesn’t mean much because the country-setting looks like it’d lend itself to everyone having trucks, similar to the small town I grew up in where everyone had at least one pickup.

    update: my dad thinks it’s a 96 f-150 but I don’t agree with him. The lights don’t match, the orange turning lights are on the side of the headlights which is consistent with the earlier models f-150 models. I think it’s an ‘87 F-150. When I first saw it I felt it was a late 80s F-150 as well. Maybe a different year but I feel sure it’s an f-150. All that rust couldn’t have happened in just a couple years too. It has to be older. I could be wrong though..

    I found this to support my claims. The lights match the 87-91 model :D: [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
  19. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    I agree on the model year -- late 80s, early 90s Ford F-150 pickup truck:
    https://www.blueovaltech.com/history/1991-ford-trucks.php

    But we would have to nail down ownership. Next door neighbor's pickup truck is not good enough -- it has to have belonged to FF Jeff O., not the neighbor's.
    And the dogs. He would have had to have owned dogs (plural, as in more than one). As an adult. In the 9/11 time frame (mid-1990s to 9/11).

    If you could contact Denise what would you ask her? How would you ask her?

    Thoughts?
     
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  20. Summer785

    Summer785 Active Member

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    I would not contact her to be honest. For one thing it’s not my question to ask. I can’t imagine what I would say or how she would feel.. it wouldn’t feel right to me or at least I can’t think of a way to broach the subject with her. Maybe there are public records that could be obtained somehow but I would 100% not involve the widow.
     
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  21. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    FF Jeff O. joined the FDNY in 1997 after graduating from FDNY's Fire Academy. He was first assigned to Engine Company 10 in lower Manhattan adjacent to the WTC. Over the next 4 years he was then assigned to Engine 246 and Ladder 175, both in Brooklyn. In June 2001 he was re-assigned back to Engine 10, the company he had started out with in 1997. He had only been working at Engine 10 for 3 months before he was killed on active duty on 9/11, age 31. He had been married to Denise for less than 3 years (married in 1999). The curious thing is he died on duty with Ladder 10 and not Engine 10. He either was covering for a firefighter from Ladder 10 for the 9 am to 6 pm tour (shift), or he was "detailed" to Ladder 10 for that shift ("to be detailed" means to be loaned out to another company for a very short assignment for whatever reason). He had already worked the night shift (6 pm to 9 am) and so was already at the firehouse on the morning of 9/11. Here is a screenshot of the riding list for Ten House the morning of 9/11, still preserved at their quarters on Liberty St. after 20 years:

    upload_2021-10-3_20-20-44.png

    Truck is short for Ladder Truck. The shift's job assignments for each firefighter are listed as abbreviations in black. (Off. = Officer, Chauf. = Chauffeur, Can = Can Man, F.E. = Forcible Entry (Man), O.V.M. = Outside Vent Man etc. FF Jeff O. was to be the Forcible Entry man that day.

    This type of work arrangement shows that FF Jeff O. and FF Dan Potter not only would have known each other because both worked, ate, and at times slept at the same firehouse (Ten House -- Jeff since June 2001, Dan since late August 2001), but the potential was there for both to have worked together within the same company, Ladder 10.

    (As an aside, FF Paul Pan., age 34, the other FF from Engine 10 who was killed on 9/11, had been with Engine 10 all 10 years of his FDNY career (never assigned to a Ladder company). On 9/11 he was detailed to Engine 26 (duly noted on the Ten House Riding List for 9/11 see above), and rode down to the WTC that morning with them, not with his own Engine company (Engine 10) ).

    (Must be logged into the forum to see the screen shot at a viewable size.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
  22. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    The yellow house with the blue pickup truck in front seen in post #47 above (with Denise O.) is 427 Miles Avenue, Staten Island, New York. It is right next door to 423 Miles Avenue, Staten Island, which is listed as a former address of FF Jeff O.'s older brother Neil O. (423 Miles Ave is the light blue house). So the aging blue Ford F-150 pickup truck parked in front of 427 Miles Avenue belonged to a neighbor, not to Jeff O. Sorry Summer785, it was a nice try though.

    upload_2021-10-5_8-43-9.png

    (Must be logged into the forum to see the screen shot at a viewable size.)

    Guess we're back to square one as far as pickup trucks go.

    PS. And Staten Island, a borough of NYC, is not "upstate New York". New Yorkers consider upstate New York to be any part of the state north of Westchester County and/or west of the Hudson River.

    PSPS. FF Jeff O. still could have owned a pickup truck and dogs -- we just don't have any evidence for it. Jeff had 5 older brothers and sisters and 15 nieces and nephews by 2001. So my guess is that the photo (screenshot) of Denise O., dated 10.31 (Halloween), was taken on Halloween 1999 or 2000, late afternoon, in front of Jeff's older brother's house (Denise, an R.N. at the time, is dressed up in rancher/ cowboy duds, to take the kids (her kids and Jeff's nieces and nephews) trick-or-treating with Jeff. That would be my guess. Staten Island, even though part of NYC, is relatively open with lots of places for camping and fishing, and is more suburban and family-friendly in nature, rather than being built-up like the other four boroughs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
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  23. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    UK mom (post #1 this thread): "I have previously been a member of this forum but haven't visited for a few years. I mentioned at the time that my son then around 2 appeared to have prior knowledge of numbers. Now at age 5 he is still very good with numbers and he could also fluently read by the age of 3. He has just started school and teacher is fairly amazed by his reading and looked to us for an explanation which we don't have."

    From 1995 to June 2001 Dan Potter was Ladder 5's FF ladder truck driver ("chauffeur"). His lieutenant and frequent riding mate was Lt. Mike W. who had been with Ladder 5 as one of its 3 lieutenants for 10 years prior to 9/11. The two were good friends.

    In 2020 Dan Potter (using the alias "Johnny Gage") wrote the following about his former "Boss", Lt. Mike, on an FDNY internet forum ( https://nycfire.net/forums/threads/glory-days.56659/page-21 , post # 406) :

    “Mike was perhaps the most colorful and unique Boss I have ever worked with and I really enjoyed driving him, he was seven years older than I was but we had many things in common. It was he and [Lt.] JJ that offered me the seat to become their LCC [Ladder Company Chauffeur] when our groups worked. Mike was Mensa smart and deeply knowledgeable in many subjects especially anything relating to science, the undersea world and the Everglades. He was a voracious reader with a vocabulary way beyond extraordinary. Between runs, after dinner or at home he would read and complete a three inch paperback in a few days and then say he didn’t like the story but felt obligated to finish what he started.

    Mike was a twenty four year veteran firefighter and was counting down the few months until he retired [would have been Sept 13, 2001] with plans for travel to more National Parks and exotic sights in Europe and the Far East that he read about.

    A divorced bachelor living in a Queens townhouse with a Godzilla poster mounted on a wall, he was saving every penny for his two children's education. For a vacation he enjoyed hiking and traveled to National Parks out west driving his blue duct-taped Toyota pickup truck packed with homemade cold cut sandwiches. . . .”

    Ladder 5's Lt. Mike W. and several other firefighters from Ladder 5 were still coming down the B-staircase somewhere around the 12th floor on 9/11 when the North Tower (1 WTC) suddenly collapsed. Buried under 30 feet of steel and concrete rubble of what had been the North Tower Lt. Mike lived long enough to give out 3 May Day calls (fireman down) over his radio handie-talkie before succumbing to what turned out to be fatal injuries.

    UK mom said that her 5 -year-old son was remarkably good at numbers and phenomenally well ahead of his age group in reading, for no apparent reason. His kindergarten teacher asked UK mom about this but she had no answer.

    If Lt. Mike W. was UK mom's son's PP, then the "Lou" UKmom's son mentioned could be Ladder 5's Louie A., who also died on 9/11 with Ladder 5 in the North Tower (1 WTC) collapse.

    All this is speculation, of course. UK mom never really gave us anything solid like a surname with which to identify a single unique individual.

    As on aside, if you read through Dan's (aka "Johnny Gage" on the FDNY firefighters' forum he was posting on) posts, you will learn that he and Lt. Mike W started up a prank club called the "Hot Dog Club", where new members had to buy a round of hot dogs for each of the older members. It was basically a Ponzi scheme to get free hot dogs from gullible new members. Lt. Mike W was "president" of the "club" and Dan was the "vice president". Could the "dogs" UK mom's son mentioned loading into the back of his truck, actually be "hot dogs"? ("dog" is American slang for "hot dog.")
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  24. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Here is an example of American slang (or at least New York slang) "dog(s)" for "hot dog(s)". Dan Potter (writing under the alias Johnny Gage) tells the story of an FDNY Chief's desire to join Lt. Mike W. and Dan's (prank) "Hot Dog Club":

    https://nycfire.net/forums/threads/glory-days.56659/page-21#post-196564 post #412

    “Johnny, me and Jimmy want to join the Hot Dog Club”, said the Chief. I looked over at Mike who was now suddenly piqued with interest craning his neck toward me to hear what the Chief was saying. I sat back, looked at Mike and told him the Chief wanted to join the club “if” that was alright with him. Mike was relieved and I could see the color returning to his face as he relaxed back into his seat. I turned back to the Chief, “Yes, of course you can join, but…” as I made a hitchhiker's thumb towards Mike, “...Mike says you can be the Chief, but since He is the President of the Club he supersedes your rank”. If looks could kill, Mike was throwing daggers.

    The Chief, a fine good-natured gentleman and remarkable “War Years” legend fire officer had a good chuckle, then proceeded to buy a round of eight dogs. Mike and I were thrilled to add the future COD Boss and his Aide Jim Cooney to our robust roster. I said to Mike, good thing Chief Pete didn’t put any ketchup on his dog, you’d have to tell him he was BFL [Banned For Life]!
     
  25. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Here is an example showing that "pickup truck" "pickup" and "truck" are used interchangeably in American English (story is told by FDNY Ladder 5 Craig M. about his Chevy pickup truck. Both survived 9/11:

    https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/40730/000095012402000691/k67909e425.htm

    "In the wake of the World Trade Center disaster, New York firefighter Craig Monahan discovered that “Like a Rock” was no mere advertising slogan; it was an amazingly accurate description of his trusty 1992 Chevrolet 1500 pickup.

    Monahan was off duty that day. But he responded to the emergency, driving to the vicinity of the World Trade Center, where he left his truck to perform his duties as a professional firefighter. He arrived in time to witness the collapse of the first tower of the Trade Center and to help rescue some New York Port Authority police and civilians – before the second tower’s collapse destroyed his unit’s ladder truck.

    Hours later, when he returned, exhausted, to where he’d left his pickup, he was amazed and relieved to find it still there. The truck was now partially buried, dented, burned, and melted. Not one piece of glass was left intact. Reaching through a blown-out window to try the ignition, he was surprised to hear it start right up.

    “That was a moral victory for me,” Monahan said. “It really lifted me.” And when he drove the pickup back to the firehouse, he said, “It lifted the whole firehouse.”

    The men of the firehouse, Engine Company 24 and Ladder Company 5, had been two of the first companies to respond that day. Tragically, 11 of them were killed in the disaster.

    With no firetruck now of their own, Monahan and the other members of Ladder 5 continued to use his damaged pickup. They drove it back and forth to Ground Zero in the ongoing rescue and recovery operation. The truck became a symbol of the firefighters’ undaunted spirit and courage. In the face of overwhelming adversity, if it could keep going, somehow, so could they.

    The men “rallied ‘round the truck”, Monahan said. To make it more like a firetruck, they attached the salvaged numbers and logos from Ladder 5’s destroyed apparatus and proudly spray-painted “Like a Rock” on the back.

    “We used it as a firetruck,” Monahan said. “I was proud of that truck. I was proud of Chevrolet.” "
     
  26. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Ladder 5's FF Paul K., a 38-year-old bachelor and 6 year FDNY veteran, was off duty and sleeping in on the morning of 9/11. He lived on Cedar Street, right behind FDNY's Ten House, and about a block south and east of 2 WTC, the South Tower. The impact of AA Flight 11 slicing and exploding into the WTC North tower woke the sleeping fireman whereupon he leaped up, called his sister to tell her he was all right, then ran downstairs to Ten House to help his firefighter brothers. He was never seen or heard from by his family again.

    The force of the collapse of 2 WTC (south tower) blew out Paul's apartment windows, and coated the inside of the apartment with that ever pervasive 9/11 gray-colored dust. After the day's calamity had passed, “[Firefighters from Paul K.’s firehouse] accompanied [Paul’s brother Neil] to his brother’s ruined apartment where [Neil] found, among other things, rosary beads, family photos and the Fire Department newsletter.” ( https://www.silive.com/september-11/2010/09/paul_keating_38_firefighter_wa.html )

    No mention is made of a dog or dogs in the apartment. Living in lower Manhattan as a bachelor firefighter would have made it difficult to keep dogs, given Paul's schedule, especially as he, like any normal bachelor, enjoyed Manhattan's night life on his time off from his Ladder 5 firehouse in Greenwich Village.

    We have to assume, and I am going to assume, that FF Paul K. did not own any dogs. So we can cross his name off the list of candidates for UK mom's son's PP. Her son's past-life personality either owned dogs or, in the special case of Lt. Mike W., came into possession of a lot of (hot) dogs, enough to pack up into the back of a pickup truck for a camping trip, anyway.

    Here is what the resulting short list looks like to date:

    Engine 10 – 9/11 Fallen Firefighters

    FF Jeffrey O., 31
    FF Paul P., 34

    Ladder 5 – 9/11 Fallen Firefighters

    Lt. Vincent G., 40
    Lt. Michael W., 51
    FF Louis A., 32
    FF Thomas H., 36 (older brother trained his firehouse’s firedog (“Hooper”, a dalmatian, d. 2002
    age 12.)
    FF John S., 49, one of the chauffeurs of Ladder 5, most senior man in his firehouse

    The list grows shorter.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
  27. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    I found another oddity or strange coincidence if you will. From Lt. Mike W.'s obituary this little tidbit:

    “When Lt. Michael W[.] was a child in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, his grandmother brought British tabloid newspapers into the house. Paging through the tales of three-headed babies and ichthyological anthropomorphism, he developed a passion for reading and a flair for the bizarre.”

    https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/michael-warchola-obituary?pid=93568&page=7

    Probably just a coincidence. Doesn't every grandmother have her little grandchild read the British tabs?
     
  28. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    I was thinking about UK mom's son's use of the word "truck". What did he mean by "truck"? I will try to make the case that he indeed meant either pickup truck or possibly fire truck, and that this case has to be a genuine instance of reincarnation rather than a case of some young British boy with a vivid imagination. Watch this first, and notice how the word "truck" is used in this British news clip (from UK's Channel 4 News):



    In this British news clip "truck" means, what we would call in the American dialect, a "semi" "semi-truck" "18-wheeler" "tractor trailer", yes, and "truck" too. It definitely does not mean pickup truck or even fire truck, which, I believe in the UK is referred to as a fire engine.

    Now, UKmom mentioned that her son said something about putting his dogs in the back of the truck. (UK mom: "During role playing as well as names and giving his sisters orders he talked about putting his dogs in the back of the truck which I found a bit strange as we didn't own a dog (although we do now) and it was all very matter of fact." )

    Would truck drivers in the UK normally put their dogs in the back of a semi, semi-truck, 18-wheeler, or tractor trailer? I don't think so. Not unless the poor creatures were in cages and being hauled off to some Chinese wet market in Germany or Holland. Everyone see what I'm getting at?

    UK mom's son couldn't possibly have meant "truck" according to the current common British usage. He must have meant "truck" according to the commonly used American usage, pickup, pickup truck, truck.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
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  29. Speedwell

    Speedwell Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    When I was growing up, in the 60s and 70s, 'truck' meant one of those open-topped containers, usually full of coal or sand, forming part of a railway train. Vehicles on the road were referred to as lorries. The use of truck gradually came into use to mean particularly a very large type of lorry. Language does change with time.

    Pick-up truck, I've seen a few in recent years, but the most recent had 'Chevrolet' on the back, which makes it unusual, not a typical British vehicle.

    I guess by the 1980s truck and trucking were part of the language, as illustrated in this comedy song. Flattened hedgehogs were and are commonplace too, and were part of a running joke in this series.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
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  30. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Apparently a British English dialect in the Northwest of England can refer to pickup/ pick-up trucks as "trucks", which defeats my argument should UK mom happen to have been from the Northwest of England:

    Madseavets (2017) reply to Jaxcat:
    “Even later reply.. I can also confirm that "wagon" is used in North West England, although "truck" and "lorry" are also used. The term "truck" is also used for pickups.”

    from the blog: https://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2009/05/trucks-and-lorries.html

    (Do a Control F search for pickup / pick-up and you will eventually come upon Madseavets reply as well as a number of other lively posts!

    If true, and we have to assume it is true barring any information to the contrary, UKmom and her son referred to pickup trucks as trucks -- just like Americans do.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021 at 8:33 AM

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