9/11 - Child in England remembers being an American firefighter

Discussion in 'Children's Past Lives -Age 7 & under' started by ukmom, Oct 26, 2006.

  1. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    FF Thomas H., 36, assigned to Ladder Company 5, was a member of the Fire Department's Emerald Society and the department's basketball team which competed in the Indianapolis [police and firefighters athletic] games. At 6’ 3” tall, he was a high school and college basketball star, and later with the FDNY, a star player with the Department’s basketball team. Tom (Tommy, Thomas) enjoyed bicycling, playing basketball, softball and football, and traveling. A native of Staten Island he was a 10-year veteran firefighter with the FDNY before he perished in the collapse of the North Tower on 9/11.

    It seems to me that someone with this schedule would not have had enough time to take care of a dog let alone more than one dog. Tom H. devoted much of his time to the basketball court and athletics, his family (wife and two young daughters), firefighting, and preserving traditional Irish social customs as a member of the FDNY's Emerald Society. Obviously, someone like this could have owned and loved dogs too, but, if this were indeed true, it doesn't show up in any of the obituaries for FF Tom H. that I have read. His older brother, Kevin H. of Ladder 119, after all, did train Ladder 119's firehouse dog (a dalmatian named "Hooper" d. 2002) to roll over and do tricks. But, still, one would have expected at least a mention of camping and/or hunting in Tom's obituaries, even with two young (5 and 3 y.o.) girls and a wife who adored him. I just don't see how a dog or dogs fits into this picture. So I'm crossing his name off the list of candidates for UK mom's son's past-life personality (PP).

    Here is the resulting short list:

    Engine 10 – 9/11 Fallen Firefighters

    FF Jeffrey O., 31
    FF Paul P., 34

    Ladder 5 – 9/11 Fallen Firefighters

    Lt. Vincent ("Vinny") G., 40
    Lt. Michael ("Mike") W., 51
    FF Louis ("Louie") A., 32
    FF John S., 49, one of the chauffeurs and most senior man of Ladder 5.

    P.S. I'll still go ahead and read "Firehouse Dog", the 1993 children's book by Amy Hutchings based on and starring Hooper the dalmatian from FDNY Ladder 119. You never know what might turn up.
     
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  2. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    FF Dan Potter started his Ladder 10 "detail" (short temporary assignment) at the 10&10 ("Ten House") firehouse on September 8, 2001 -- just 3 days before 9/11. (I originally thought late August or early Sept, 2001) The two candidates from Engine 10 (quartered with Ladder 10 at "Ten House" on Liberty St. next to the WTC) listed in the previous post would not have had time to even know who Dan Potter was in the short time before 9/11 (which Dan had off by the way). The reference is from a podcast called "Gettin' Salty Experience Podcast" Ep. 22 (August 2020, with guest retired FF Dan Potter), available on youtube. The actual reference is at 1:34:24 time stamp into the podcast. So I believe we have to eliminate the two Engine 10 firefighters. The new, revised list looks like this:

    Ladder 5 – 9/11 Fallen Firefighters

    Lt. Vincent ("Vinny") G., 40
    Lt. Michael ("Mike") W., 51
    FF Louis ("Louie") A., 32
    FF John S., 49, one of the chauffeurs and most senior man of Ladder 5.

    I read the 1993 children's book"Firehouse Dog" (It's mostly photos of Hooper the Dalmatian in and around Ladder 119 in Brooklyn.) The book is geared towards the younger primary school crowd). There really wasn't anything in the book to add to this discussion.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
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  3. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    The Captain of Ladder 6 on 9/11 gives a succinct recounting of what transpired that day from the perspective of a FDNY fire officer attempting to complete his assignment at the World Trade Center on the worst day in US firefighting history. He takes us from the moment he got to work that morning to reporting to the command post in the lobby of 1WTC with his men shortly after the first plane hit to coming out alive with his men more or less intact that afternoon after being buried alive by the collapse of the North Tower (1 WTC). It is the story of the "Miracle of Stairwell B" as told by one of the survivors. As a tease he mentions my top pick for UK mom's son's past-life personality as well as a very strong candidate for baby rn's son's past-life personality. Of course, only Carol and baby rn know the identity with certainty of baby rn's son's PP and I think we will never know who UK mom's son's PP may have been given the lack of specific identifying clues. It's a great -- but completely surreal clip -- as the retired captain tells the hair-raising, spine-tingling story in a most serene setting 20 years on. Remember, after 2 WTC (the south tower) collapsed the two to three hundred firemen in 1 WTC (the north tower) had just 29 minutes to evacuate and clear the building. Most did not make it out.

     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2021
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  4. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    UK mom:
    “From around the age 3 he began giving us names. He especially talked lots about Lou and even gave us a surname.
    “I had taken Lou to be a first name he was referring to but recently became aware that in America they have fire Lieutenants. Would someone in the fire service refer to themselves as LEU(with surname) rather than Lieutenant?” [GSITS: No.]
    “I myself did a search of firefighters who sadly died on 9/11 and had a partial match of a surname (not the first name) he mentioned.”

    We've already determined that Lou most likely refers to some "Louis" that UKmom's son's past-life personality (PP) knew, worked, or had worked with. There was a FF Louis ("Louie") A. who worked in Ladder 5 and died on 9/11, but this can't be the "Lou" UKmom's son was referring to, otherwise UKmom would have spotted him on a list of fallen firefighters from 9/11. UKmom's son spoke of a "Lou" (with surname) -- accompanied by a surname that UKmom could not place in any list of fallen 9/11 firefighters.

    My feeling at this point is that the "Lou" UKmom's son was referring to must have been a firefighter who had worked in Ladder 5 (in the same time period as FF Dan Potter, ie., 1994 - 2001) but had either retired or transferred out of Ladder 5 before 9/11 and had also survived 9/11. There are from 9000 - 11000 uniformed firefighters in the FDNY at any given time. On average 1 out of every 200 or so firefighters (or firefighter applicants see list of 43000 names for the FDNY 2012 test scores available on the internet) are named "Louis" (a bit more frequent for those name "Luis", but that may be a post 9/11 thing), so it is not a common name. Only 2/ 343 of the firefighters who died on 9/11 were named "Louis".

    Anyway, here are incomplete lists of firefighters who worked in the Engine 24 - Ladder 5 firehouse in Greenwich Village in the 9/11 time frame (mid 90s - 2001-ish). There are usually about 25-29 firefighters and fire officers in a company at any given time:


    Engine 24/ Ladder 5 Firehouse – Members around the 9/11 Time Frame

    1. Capt. Anthony V., Engine 24 (owned a pickup truck)
    2. Lt. Gregg H., Engine 24
    3. FF Richard B., Engine 24
    4. FF Dan S., Engine 24
    5. FF Robert B., Engine 24 (proby)
    6. FF John O., Engine 24
    7. FF Marcel C., Engine 24
    8. FF James M., Engine 24
    9. FF Robert B., Engine 24
    10. FF Steven A., Engine 24
    11. FF William Mc., Engine 24
    12. FF Anthony S., Engine 24 (chauffeur)
    13. FF Michael P., Engine 24
    14. FF Frank Mc., Engine 24
    15. FF Christopher Mc., Engine 24
    16. FF Cosmo D., Engine 24
    17. FF Robert B., Engine 24

    1. Captain Frank C., Ladder 5
    2. Lt. Vincent G., Ladder 5 (deceased 9/11)
    3. Lt. Michael W., Ladder 5 (deceased 9/11) (owned a pickup truck)
    4. Lt. Timothy O’N., Ladder 5
    5. FF Louis A., Ladder 5 (deceased 9/11)
    6. FF Andrew B., Ladder 5 (deceased 9/11)
    7. FF Thomas H., Ladder 5 (deceased 9/11)
    8. FF Paul K., Ladder 5 (deceased 9/11)
    9. FF John S., Ladder 5 (deceased 9/11)
    10. FF Gregory S., Ladder 5 (deceased 9/11)
    11. FF Andrew B., Ladder 5 (deceased 9/11)
    12. FF Joseph P. G., Ladder 5
    13. FF Matthew B., Ladder 5
    14. FF Craig M., Ladder 5 (owned a pickup truck)
    15. FF Joseph R., Ladder 5
    16. FF Jeffrey A., Ladder 5
    17. FF Davey (no last name given), Ladder 5
    18. FF Greg W., Ladder 5
    19. FF Dennis T., Ladder 5
    20. FF Jimmy M., Ladder 5
    21. FF Stephen S., Ladder 5 (retired)
    22. FF Dan P., Ladder 5 (transferred out early July 2001)
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
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  5. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    FF Dan Potter was briefly a member of Ladder 31 in the Engine 82 - Ladder 31 firehouse from early July 2001 to Sept 7, 2001. No one from this firehouse in the south Bronx was lost on 9/11. However, a former member of Engine 82, a Lieutenant Geoffrey G., was lost on 9/11. He had been working as a "floating" lieutenant with Battalion 43 staff (quartered in Brooklyn) that summer. (Basically he served as a covering Lieutenant in firehouses within Battalion 43 after he transferred out of Engine 82 sometime that summer.) There may have been some overlap with Dan in the Engine 82 - Ladder 31 firehouse, so, theoretically, Lt. Geoff G. could have met Dan at some point that summer (2001). But I don't think there would have been enough overlap for the two to have known each other very well. So, no, I don't think this lieutenant should be considered a candidate for UK mom's son's PP.

    The short list remains as follows:

    Ladder 5 – 9/11 Fallen Firefighters

    Lt. Vincent ("Vinny") G., 40
    Lt. Michael ("Mike") W., 51
    FF Louis ("Louie") A., 32
    FF John S., 49, one of the chauffeurs and most senior man of Ladder 5.

    I really can't whittle this list down any further. Each of the four could have been UK mom's son's PP. Each of the four could have owned dogs and a pick-up truck in the 9/11 time frame. But I think Lt. Vinny G. is probably the least likely (based on his schedule), while Lt. Mike W. (who did own a pickup truck) is probably the most likely, given our main assumption -- that UK mom's son's mention of someone name "Pata" or "Patter" refers to FDNY FF Dan Potter.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
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  6. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Fascinating details. Thank you so much for sharing what you know or have researched. I am sharing the video with friends who are curious about reincarnation. The more we share the more doors open. What a great reference.
     
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  7. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    UKmom's original thread was titled "My son and numbers". Apparently UKmom's son, already at age 2, was very familiar with numbers. But why?

    UKmom (26 Oct 2006, post # 1):
    “I have previously been a member of this forum but haven't visited for a few years. I mentioned at the time that my son then around 2 appeared to have prior knowledge of numbers.”

    Deborah speculated that this prior knowledge of numbers might have been related to UKmom's son's past-life personality (PP) as an American firefighter:

    Deborah (27 Oct 2006, post # 7):
    “. . . I did a forum search and found Ukmom's old thread from 2003. My son and numbers She indicates he responded then to the number two. I am curious what the importance of numbers might be to a firefighter? Stations have numbers - is this right?”

    Stars3, a retired fire department chief from Connecticut, responded that this could have been the case, but that the number 2 could mean anything:

    Stars3 (27 Oct 2006, post #8):

    “Yes, . . .[but] The number 2 could be anything, Engine 2, Truck 2, Rescue 2...”

    That was then. This is now. Now we're making the assumption that UKmom's mention that her son spoke a lot about "pata, pater", which she later clarified sounded like "patter", refers to former FDNY Ladder 5 firefighter Dan Potter (retired FDNY 2002). Here's the thing: Dan was never assigned to Engine 2, Ladder 2 (= 2 Truck), or Rescue 2. But, BUT! he was assigned to Engine 24/ Ladder 5 firehouse which also quartered Battalion 2 staff.

    A typical FDNY battalion staff consists of four battalion chiefs (and four firefighter aides) to work each of the shifts ("tours") for round the clock 24/7 coverage.

    Although a battalion chief can assign himself to any incident he usually is required at any and every structural (building) fire. The FDNY runs as a para-military organization, so when the battalion chief is present on scene at an incident, he is the man in charge and company fire officers, like Ladder 5's 24-year veteran Lt. Mike W. (last 12 with Ladder 5), report to him and follow his orders.

    It's no wonder UKmom's 2-year-old son's ears would perk up whenever he heard the number two. On any run where a Battalion 2 Chief was present, a Ladder 5 fire officer would similarly perk up and be sure to pay attention to his commanding officer's orders, in this case, the on-scene Battalion 2 Chief. And yes, the chief's helmet would have a nice big number 2 right there on the front of his helmet.

    The following are photos of Battalion 1 Chief Joseph Pfeiffer taking command in the lobby of 1 WTC on the morning of 9/11, and of the Battalion 2 Chief's big Chevy Suburban SUV (post 9/11) with the number 2 emblazed on its rear side window (must be logged in to view images in full):

    upload_2021-11-19_19-12-31.jpeg

    upload_2021-11-19_19-14-59.jpeg

    To give you some idea of the importance of numbers to any very large fire fighting organization (like the FDNY), but especially to the fire officers and fire chiefs, listen to the Manhattan Dispatch audio tapes from 9/11 (its a 4-hour tape so just a few minutes will do for this illustration):

     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2021
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  8. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    UKmom (28 Oct 2006, post # 16):
    "During role playing as well as names and giving his sisters orders . . ." Giving his sisters orders? He must have been a fire officer -- Lieutenant, Captain, or Chief. This shortens the list to two:

    Ladder 5 – 9/11 Fallen Firefighters

    Lt. Vincent ("Vinny") G., 40
    Lt. Michael ("Mike") W., 51

    But I think we need to add the two Battalion 2 Chiefs that were killed when the north tower (1WTC) collapsed on 9/11 (see wikipedia for list of fallen 9/11 firefighters), since Battalion 2 staff were quartered with Ladder 5 at the Engine 24 - Ladder 5 firehouse in Greenwich Village, NYC:

    BC William McG., 49
    BC Richard P., 57

    The number of names on the candidate list for UK mom's son's past-life personality stays at four.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
  9. GuySittingintheStands

    GuySittingintheStands Senior Member

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    Regarding the addition of the two battalion chiefs to the list of possible candidates for UKmom's son's past life personality, how likely is it that either one of them worked closely with FF Dan Potter during his time as one of the Ladder 5 chauffeurs (1995 - end of June 2001)?

    Well, I asked that question to a very authoritative source. The answer surprised me somewhat. The ladder chauffeur at the scene of a fire ("incident") and the incident on-scene battalion chief in charge have very little if any interaction during the operation. Of course, either one or both of the Battalion 2 Chiefs would have known Dan, and Dan them since they worked in the same firehouse, but their working relationship could be described as minimal. So I think we should take the two chiefs off the list. The resulting list of proposed candidates for UKmom's son's past life personality, now down to two, looks like this:

    Ladder 5 – 9/11 Fallen Firefighters

    Lt. Vincent ("Vinny") G., 40
    Lt. Michael ("Mike") W., 51
     
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  10. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Registered

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    Just wanted to say thank you for all the effort you put into this. I really enjoy reading about your research and results regarding the 911 cases :)
     
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