A Question on Simultaneous Time

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by Rob, Dec 30, 2000.

  1. Rob

    Rob A Very Cool Member!

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    I have been reading Gary Zukav's book SEAT OF THE SOUL (very good book, by the way -- as many of you probably already know).

    There is a passage that I don't understand about simultaneous time, and I was hoping someone would help me to gain a deeper understanding (maybe I'm just looking at it the wrong way, and that's why I fail to grasp the concept).

    Gary says
    Now, I understand the concept of duality in that we do not bring all of our soul energy into an incarnation on earth. I also understand that "linear time" is a concept that pertains to dense matter, and we need the illusion of time to help us understand the relationships between events while here in mortality.

    What I don't understand is how could releasing negativity in a current lifetime effect a past-life? Does it somehow change the events of that past-life? That would make no sense to me. I always conceptualized consciouness becoming more aware as a linear process. I always thought that the awareness that I gain during a lifetime will effect the future lifetimes I experience, but how do they effect the past lives as well?

    Is the author trying to say that a soul extends itself hundreds or thousands of times simultaneously at different points along a time-line? This is way over my head.

    How are my future lifetimes happening simultaneously with my present lifetime?
    Love,
    Rob


    [This message has been edited by Rob (edited 05-11-2001).]
     
  2. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Hi Rob,

    Now it's time for you to read Michael Talbot's book -"The Holographic Universe." He explains it very well, and in easy to understand language.

    I personally have found that by 'experience' I learn, and by asking questions in one for or another - I will get the answers; You're great at asking questions!

    Dreams sometimes give us clues and way back in July of 2000 I had two that really helped me understand what your asking. So, I thought I would share.

    7/02/2000. The following is my dream....'fragment' I might add.

    I was not in a specific time or place. I was in a void. I was not a solid form made of 'matter.' I was a vibration -- pure energy --pure consciousness. I reached out to touch a TIME fragment when I realized I was warping time to do so. I realized upon doing so that time was really a HOLOMOVEMENT, a fragmentation of ALL there is.

    THEN -

    Five days later and probably due to my own thousand questions I found myself with another dream that SHOWED me even more! - I was in a past life - I was stepping out of a horse drawn carriage as a young woman. As I stepped out I noticed pieces of my reality which seemed to be shattered in fragments surrounding me -floating in space all around me!

    Each fragment was of a perceived PAST LIFE of mine -- they appeared as pieces of shattered glass only fluid and each contained full color images with what appeared to be little movies going on inside of them. Each fragment was a hologram and was a whole unto itself. The oddest of 'knowings' was I aware of each fragment. In the dream I could reach out and touch them -- each contained all of my memories -- YET EACH FRAGMENT was actively participating in the present moment. IN the NOW.

    Each fragment was beyond time and space as we know it. As I emerged from the carriage I became aware that my consciousness was within one of these small fragments, only enlarged because I was experiencing it as my NOW.

    BUT -if my attention, my consciousness was focused on another fragment -- I entered into that space, it would enlarge and I would be in that present moment -- in that "NOW." In that PAST LIFE.

    OK I hope that helps and - bottom-line, read Talbot's book, he does a great job explaining it.

    Love,
    Deborah
     
  3. terron

    terron Guest

    The problem is that living in this 3-dimensional world with the perspective of time as sort of linear, looking back to the past and forward to the future, it is impossible to understand the true nature of time. I'm not claiming to understand it myself; I'm aware that I don't. But I've been aware most or all of my life that time doesn't work the way it looks at first glance from here. I had some readings from the psychic Al Miner a number of years ago and in one of them he made the comment that time is not linear but moves in all directions simultaneously or something like that. In my next reading I asked, "If that is so, then how come the future doesn't affect the present or the present the past, or does it?" He answered, "It does." But didn't go into any more detail. His wife, who was asking the unconscious Al the questions, said something like,"Can you explain that? I'm sure he would like to understand." He said, "It is doubtful if anything we could say would make someone in 3-dimensional consciousness understand." or words to that effect. Nevertheless he tried, but it was true, I couldn't understand. The only thing I remember of it said that the present or future does not change the specific events of the past but changes the total effect, or something like that. His wife persisted in asking, "Is there anything more you could give on this?" He said, "Much could be given here, volumes we should fear."
    So I figure that we will remain somewhat in the dark about this topic as long as we remain in our 3-dimensional consciousness. It is possible to shift our consciousness to other levels, no doubt, from which we would be able to perceive and understand how this works, but we'd probably not be able to put it into clear, understandable Earth words once we got back either.
    Some have likened time to a river with many curves. Here in our boat on the river we can't see beyond the nearest bend in either direction. Someone in a plane above, or a satellite camera might be able to see that all the stretches of the river existed at once and events on them were happening simultaneously. That's all I can contribute on this that I can think of. Terron
     
  4. Bob

    Bob New Member

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    Hi Friends!

    Good question and good answers.

    I'd like to add a few suggestions and perspectives

    The first is to relax. You will never "figure out" simultaneous time. Your conscious mind is too entrained within linear time. So, don't think too hard on this one.

    For me the key to grasping simultaneous comes from experiences during which I step outside of linear time. Remember, your consciousness can do just about anything, so it definitely is possible to step out of and away from linear time. We all do it any time we have past life recall. There are many ways to step out of linear time. For me it starts with acknowledging that it is possible. Then I connect my awareness with a part of me that are outside linear time. Remember that your soul is eternal and not limited by time, so you have this capability just by nature of being a soul.

    I believe that one of the problems you are having Rob stems from your trying too hard to understand simultaneous time without going more deeply into experiences of simultaneous time. Its like trying to explain reincarnation to someone who has had no past life recalls. It just doesn't register very deeply until you have experienced it and felt it.

    The second important point is, as others have already pointed out, it is very difficult to explain experiences of simultaneous time within the language and concepts of linear time. Personally I mostly just leave my simultaneous time experiences as they are in my being and I don't try to fit them into a linear time worldview. You know you can't fit God into a box (even though most of humanity tries very hard to do so).

    Also Rob, you are concerned with how what is happening now can affect the past. Well, if there is no past or future, then what's the question? Once you step out of time, once you transcend time, there is no past or future, so there is nothing affecting something else at another time. There is only here and now. Everything else is an illusion. Another way to say this, is that there is no cause and effect in realms beyond time. Remember that even though diferent realms (like spirit realm and human realm) interpenetrate, they don't necessarily operate under the same principles.

    Another flaw in your thinking Rob is that you believe that consciousness becomes more aware over time. Maybe that is true in human realm, but it is not true in spirit realm. In spirit realm we are always fully conscious. So, you are not really gaining consciousness, you are remembering the consciousness you already have.

    So, as I said in the beginning, it's best not to try to fit different dimensions into each other. You can't truly understand timelessness from within time.

    One more thing I will add. When I allow my consciousness to transcend time, I feel a lot lighter, a lot more peaceful and a lot happier. So timelessness is not necessarily full of answers to our intellectual questions, but it sure feels like a lot better way to exist.

    Blessings,

    Bob
     
  5. DJ

    DJ Senior Registered

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    Bob,

    I like the way you stated about how difficult it would be to explain the reincarnation concept to someone who has no past life recall. I would have a failed conversation with my friend Angela, because she has no notion whatsoever beyond the Christian Bible and sees psychic sciences as for the devil. So, I do not attempt to do so...despite that some of *her* contentions are foreign to me and she has no idea whatsoever that my conscious memories and love for her span back further than the 10 years we've known each other.
    "God in a box"----interesting metaphor, there. How many people do we meet along the road of life who try to fit *God* into a "box"?, by saying this is black and white. This is right and wrong, and the two shall never meet.
    I read this thread yesterday and have been thinking some on it, of this "simultaneous" time. I've been trying to think of any thing in *this* life affected my most remembered life of 100 years ago. I recall sitting in a chair, thinking that I would recognize my family now, but....did I sit down in the chair and think that then because I knew who I would be now and that I would remember it? When I told my daughter I could see her in her next life, does that account for this life affecting that one?

    I think what we term "simultaneous time"---well, I think we could also call our souls "simultaneous souls"....even though we perceive time as linear, it is not, and even though we perceive humanity as completely separate, we are not.

    Children perceive differently from adults. I saw a friend of mine yesterday who flew in from Japan for a week. She told me that her six-year-old sister understands they are living in a different house, but does not understand that they are living in a different country. Her perception is at a different level.

    Happy, happy new year
    (though what's a year, anyway? <g> ),

    Light,
    DJ
     
  6. why

    why Banned

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    Time is a cycle,

    Time is a cycle, a cycle is a circle. Start at zero and go 360 degrees, you now have a circle. God's creation is a cycle. Our particular creation is not eternal or infinite, It exists for a cycle of time in space. But God's cycles of creation are eternal and infinite. "In the Beginning was the Word". Amen!

    Light travels in circles. Light will come back to it's starting point. Where are these different points? Are they really there?
    Some of those questions might drive you nuts, as Bob mentioned.

    Reincarnation as most people think of it implies a foward, cumulative type of movement in time as Deborah pointed out. If so, we reincarnate into the coming future, and we continue to exist in that way. What if that isn't quite right? What if we could reincarnate into the so called past? Perhaps spirit can incarnate anywhere on the circle? On the lighter side, I liked that first, "back to the future" movie. How about you folks? Anyway, by going back into the "past" we could have a chance to fix all of our screw ups. Extrapolate that flux far enough and karma gets balanced. When karma gets balanced, these cycles no longer keep souls going around and around in time.

    In simultaneous time we say something like, "Eureka"!

    Well folks, that's my share of mental gymnastics for the night. Sweet dreams to all. why
     
  7. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Hi Why,

    Well, let me try again. My dreams were showing me that my LIVES were ALL HAPPENING AT ONCE - not that they were linear. My point was to show that by way of focus -intention and movement I could enter into ANY of these realities -- any of these past lives.

    yup -loved the movie "Back to the Future!"

    Love,
    Deborah
     
  8. Rob

    Rob A Very Cool Member!

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    Deborah, Your dream illustrated exactly what Gary Zukav was saying. Thanks!!!

    You have all been so helpful. I am going to order Michael Talbot's book -"The Holographic Universe" if I can find it on amazon.com -- thanks for the reference.

    All of you have such interesting analogies, like the river, etc... As I have pondered this topic these past few days, Bob's comment was exactly what I have intuitively been told -- and quite clearly, too: He said, "The first is to relax. You will never "figure out" simultaneous time. Your conscious mind is too entrained within linear time. So, don't think too hard on this one." Thanks Bob

    On a personal note, the reason this topic even stirred an interest in me comes back to something that happened in my own life recently. I have been praying lately about something specific I would like to someday experience, and I got this very calm reassuring feeling (more than once). It told me to trust (which is what I'm always being told when I pray, then I was given this thought which was given to me more as "an understanding" that what I was praying about was ALREADY HAPPENING. (but not in this life -- I guess to the rational mind, this may sound absurd, but that's what I was told). I was not told the mechanics of HOW it was already happening, just that it was. I know that I just need to trust what I was told and "relax" like Bob said. (You know? I don't even write this stuff in my journal for fear someone will read it someday and think I was crazy!)

    Anyhow, I have a couple more questions if someone is interested in responding. I've been reading lots of the NDEs on Near-Death.com (and some other books by Weiss, etc...) ...In the spiritual, non-physical, realm where everything is in "NOW time," do the events that unfold within that realm still maintain some linear-type perception to our souls? In many of Dr. Micheal Newton's book's (and not limited to his work alone) people describe events in the spirit world as still having some sort of "sequence," although they unanimously and adamantly declare that the "sequence" is not perceived the same as "time" in the physical realm.

    During hypnosis, many people recall returning to the non-physical realm after a death experience in a previous life. After the death experience, they also recall (many of them) going through some sort of "merging" with a "higher-self" consciousness (which they claim is the fullness of their true Self); the experiences of their most recent past-life are merged with the rest of their higher Self/soul. Then they use the experiences of ALL their past lives (including their most recent) to prepare for another incarnation that will lead them along the path toward a higher awareness (or level of consciousness). There seems to still be some sort of "order" where lifetimes are linked in a sequential manner. Even people who have NDEs still preceive some type of "sequence" in the events they experience.

    It seems to me that, on the level of awareness we are at currently, our consciousness still must perceive events as somewhat "sequential" in the non-physical realm as well.

    Maybe the more advanced in awareness we are, the less we need sequence to comprehend and process the events of our existence? (My own thought -- could be wrong though).

    Understanding the "Mechanics" in relationships of events is definitely not my strong point, as you can tell. I consider myself more inclined toward teaching (you know, discovery of knowledge, instilling courage, etc...)




    [This message has been edited by Rob (edited 01-01-2001).]
     
  9. Rob

    Rob A Very Cool Member!

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    Hello Bob:

    There is something I did wanted to add. I really liked what you said:

    "...Well, if there is no past or future, then what's the question? Once you step out of time, once you transcend time, there is no past or future, so there is nothing affecting something else at another time. There is only here and now. Everything else is an illusion. Another way to say this, is that there is no cause and effect in realms beyond time."

    This is beautifully said. Thank you!!!

    I don't quite understand exactly what you said when you wrote, " [A] flaw in your thinking Rob is that you believe that consciousness becomes more aware over time. Maybe that is true in human realm, but it is not true in spirit realm. In spirit realm we are always fully conscious. So, you are not really gaining consciousness, you are remembering the consciousness you already have."


    As I see it -- Yes, our "fully conscious SELF," the "end-product" of our conscious evolution no doubt ALREADY exists. (Although I grimmace when using the word "end" because there really isn't an "end product" ...we never stop evolving, I believe.) But so do the many "lesser aware" aspects of ourselves (I know, because I'm living though one of those "lesser aware" aspects of myself now, as Rob; Maybe we use the illusion of "time" or sequence of events toward the evolution of our consciousness: What I'm saying is, just because everything already IS, doesn't take away from the evolution of our awareness, it doesn't negate the "process" or the different stages. Maybe I won't always hold that view. Eventually I may let go of this idea as I comprehend a "higher" perspective.

    Like you, I also feel that past, present, and future are all definitely more connected than we can understand in the physical realm; but somehow, for me, the PAST is less fluid than the FUTURE (at least from the perspective of the PRESENT.)

    I don't understand what it is, but there MUST be something dynamically different between the PAST and FUTURE. After all, people seem to more easily remember a "past life" than a "future life" (although both are possible to "remember" -- hmmmm, "remembering the future." ...I never thought I'd be writing that sentence. Take this web site alone, this site is called "Children's PAST lives," not "...FUTURE LIVES." likewise I have never heard of a person seeking therapy to heal from a "future life" experience.

    Although PAST and FUTURE do exist simultaneously. Something intuitively tells me that there is a dynamic difference between the two, at least from the perspective of the PRESENT (whatever "PRESENT" we choose to put ourselves in...

    [This message has been edited by Rob (edited 01-01-2001).]
     
  10. Bob

    Bob New Member

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    Dear Rob,

    Let me put things a different way:

    The aspect of you that is eternal and timeless and the aspect of you that exists within time exist simultaneously. You don't have to give up one to have the other. So, you don't have to give up timelessness when you put your consciousness within time. Similarly, you can put your consciousness into a timeless perspective, while continuing to exist in time. For example, when you are recalling a past life, your body continues to exist in this body at this time. There is no conflict between the two, except your conscious mind's ability to go back and forth between the two time periods.

    Another example - your eternal soul exists always. So, even though your conscious mind is completely immersed in this world of time, your soul continues to exist within eternity.

    This is why I suggest that you relax and breath easy when you approach this topic. Simultaneous time is not something you can figure out, it is something you can experience by allowing yourself to dip into it.

    Of course, to function here on Earth, we need to deal with past, present and future. Life on Earth has rules just like any other game has rules. The trick to remember is that earthly life is a game that you are playing. Play it consciously and enjoy the game. Play it unconsciously and be subject to the whims of time. It's our choice.

    Blessings,

    Bob
     
  11. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Hi Rob,

    Are you familiar with the following two books? Both reflect FUTURE events and lives:

    Past lives FUTURE Lives - by Jenny Cockell
    FUTURE MEMORY - by P.M.H. Atwater

    Atwater approaches her work very scientifically laced with personal experiences and the experiences of others.

    Cockell approaches her work from personal experience targeted specifically on her next life - giving in depth details, etc., for documentation purposes.

    ENJOY!

    Love,
    Deborah
     
  12. Raphael

    Raphael Senior Registered

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    I think it's so cool that this topic came up on the Forum, because my uncle (electrical engineer slash minister) and I got into a conversation just last Saturday about physics and the differences between dimensions.

    I was at Midway Airport in Chicago (his home city), and he was seeing us off to return home from vacation. He gave me an analogy: picture a stick-man (two-dimensional) trying to perceive a three-dimensional universe, like the one we currently inhabit. He wouldn't be able to comprehend it. If you tried to explain to him what a sphere was, the closest he could come to it is a circle, which you and I know is a big difference.

    So it would be if someone were to try to explain to us limited creatures the concept of the fourth dimension and beyond. We can grasp bits and pieces of it but, at least in this conscious bodily form, we couldn't get the whole idea. Einstein put us a step closer by showing us that time itself is the fourth dimension -- but what really is time, anyway?

    Here's what I think. Just as a three-dimensional universe consists of infinite two-dimensional universes, a four-dimensional universe would consist of infinite three-dimensional universes. We just live in one of these universes at any given moment -- yet all of these universes exist at the same "time." (Of course, that word means nothing, because you can't measure time with time, now can you?) Those are my thoughts...

    Raphael

    P.S. I also believe ministers make the best scientists. (Or is it vice-versa?)
     
  13. Rob

    Rob A Very Cool Member!

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    I just wanted to add another related thought that came to me as I was reading some of these posts:

    Bob made a valid point earlier when he said, "you are not really gaining consciousness, you are remembering the consciousness you already have."

    Maybe, from an "individual soul" view point, our individual souls ARE on a journey toward the continual evolution of a "higher conscious awareness" (with reincarnation as a tool toward experience and "enlightenment"); but from a "Collective Consciousness" perspective, the "fully aware Self" ALREADY -- and ALWAYS -- exists. ...It IS. It's the begininning and the end of our journey.

    If we assume for a moment that all of our "individual conscious souls" sprang from one divine conscious entity, ...that we are all fragments of one "Eternal Conscious Source" on a journey back toward merging with that single Source through individually perceived levels of awareness; Then that Source would be the beginning and the end of our journey. It would be our "fully aware Self" (which is creatively evolving through continual cycles of expansion and merging).

    I know this may sound "way out there," and I don't think I am explaining it very well, but it is just a thought.

    Love,
    Rob
     
  14. thephilosopher

    thephilosopher Senior Registered

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    What an interesting series of comments! Thanks for posting the topic.
    It is VERY difficult for human beings to comprehend that all events are happening NOW.
    I can't figure it out.
    But I do think that analogy might be..
    We observe the setting sun, and for us it is evening. But we know that within this same "now", somewhere it is dawn..and somewhere it is noontime...It is a different dimension of the concept of time...
     
  15. DJ

    DJ Senior Registered

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    Here's something that just occurred to me:

    Think of thousands of people in a stadium, watching a baseball game. Those thousands of people are in the same place and viewing the same event.

    Now, think of that as inverted. Consider it differently: consider one person in thousands of different places, viewing different events.

    Light,

    DJ
     
  16. Rob

    Rob A Very Cool Member!

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    I know that this is not a "physics forum," but since this thread delves into the subject of "time & space" I guess we have been discussing "physics" all along (with a spritual slant).

    Deborah recommended I read THE HOLOGRAPHIC UNIVERSE, by Michael Talbot. She was right. It did address the topic of time & space directly by appealing to the fields of quantum physics and psychology. The book was very interesting and well documented.

    I have a very limited background in physics, but I had some questions. If someone with more knowledge in this area could email me, I'd greatly appreciate it.

    Here were some points of confusion for me: Basically, some prominent physicists (like Bohm from London) believe that all quantum particles are "non-local" because of the way twin particles remain interconnceted in their polarization as they travel away from each other (after a "matter/anti-matter" reaction). I got the idea that they are trying to say that "space" (or what we perceive to be the distance between two given objects) is really an illusion; or that "space" does not really exist outside of our "physical illusion." Is this REALLY a conclusion that some physicists have asserted? (It's okay if it is, I've just never heard this before.)

    Also, the book mentioned that, at some sub-atomic point, EVERYTHING we perceive in our reality is ultimately made up of some type of quantum-like particles; then it says that quantum particles have NO DIMENSION (actually, I DO remember learning in science how photons and electrons, etc... have no dimension or mass -- or something like that). Well, if everything is composed of quantum particles, and those quantum particles have no dimension to them, then why do atoms have mass? (I DO remember studying about "atomic mass" in science).

    Well, needless to say, the book intrigued me, but I have some questions for any "physics buffs" out there. ...Mostly about this NONLOCALITY thing.

    My email is listed on my user profile.

    Thanks,
    Rob
     
  17. thephilosopher

    thephilosopher Senior Registered

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    Hi All,
    There is an excellent site out there called www.allexperts.com. They provide really good answers in a wide variety of subjects, including philosophy and theoretical physics. I wrote and asked a physicist about the question concerning simultaneous time and how to possibly visualize it.
    My thinking now is that it would be best to concentrate on the differences between what a being living in a two dimensional
    existence would experience. How would this plane being experience a three dimensional object?
    I believe some excellent work has been done on this subject by P.D. Ouspensky.
    They would experience a three dimensional object such as an orange, in terms of a circle, the curveture of which might be expressed for them as time...
    I'll let you know the answer I received..

    Kind Regards,

    Richard
     
  18. Lastearthling

    Lastearthling Senior Registered

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    I wanted to share a dream I once had with you:

    I saw myself walking through the halls in the math pod of my highschool. I was above the scene looking down. I thought to myself, "why are all these people here with me at this time in this life in this school?" I then saw a visual picture of circular paths that connected each person with another and it was like gears to a clock, where each has a point where it connects to anothers point. Then I heard a voice in my head that I felt was the omnicient voice of God: "Everything is as it should be, (my name)" and that was it.

    I just wanted to share this with you...

    I believe it was Max Ehrman, the poet who wrote the Desedarata of Happiness, who said also something to this affect, "... no doubt the universe is unfolding the way it should be..."

    Lastearthling
     
  19. pixipunx

    pixipunx Senior Registered

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    "You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees or the stars. And wether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."

    It's been my favorite poem since I was a child. And what a wonderful way of reminding us that it all comes down to our faith in the universe around us. (Whatever or whenever we perceive it to be.)

    Blessed be,
    Crystal
     
  20. why

    why Banned

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    Hi Richard,

    Thanks for the information, I hope to check out that web site soon. Mr. Ouspensky's work is very interesting to me. He writes with so much detail and explanation.
    He sees reincarnation in a different way than most "new agers" or traditional schools.

    It is amazing how much work and research he did in the early 1900's, without all of the tech advantages that we have now!
    Have you read any of his books?

    Take care, regards, why2
     
  21. JOLYNN

    JOLYNN New Member

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    I am new to this forum and would like to pose a question. Could it be that people's memories of "past" lives are not the memories of their individual souls, but rather are instances in which their soul has transcended linear time and 3D space to experience, in a way that feels like 1st hand, the life of a different person? Maybe this is the reason why more than one person can recall being Thomas Jefferson, Cleopatra, the 1st queen of England, etc.
     
  22. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    This is a very old thread - BUT has some very important information in it regarding simultaneous experiences. Since there is now a thread on soul- splitting (which I do not agree with --personal opinion here ;) ) I thought perhaps this particular thread would help shed light on another POV.
     

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