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Are soul and spirit different or the same?

Nightrain

Nightrain

Senior Registered
Speaking only for myself, I was conditioned to believe that the meaning of the two words, "soul" and "spirit" were one and the same, or interchangeable. Of course, we've read the scriptures which, sometimes, indicated some kind of difference between the two; but so many of us have glanced over the words as if some were fairy tales and others were incongruous. Generally, however, many of us, who examined the concept of an afterlife, usually assumed that our souls simply separated from our bodies and entered the spirit world.

However, I've recently come across some intriguing references and posts, which would seem to indicate that the soul and spirit are two related but separate concepts. Edgar Cayce's readings, for example, go into great length on this matter, but the excerpts are difficult to understand when shown out of context with the complete readings.

The following web page: http://www.contendingforthefaith.com seems to give a more concise and readable discussion, based upon their interpretation of Christian scriptures.

Although I have my own misgivings about the accuracy of many parts of the bible in view of documented "adjustments" made to the scriptures after 325 A.C.E., I still find it interesting that some scholars have managed to find passages, which seem to indicate evidence of gnostic beliefs which could support reincarnation.

How would you define soul and spirit? Are they the same? Or, are they different? How do words like, mind, ego and psyche fit into all this?

-Nightrain
 
Nightrain1 said:
Speaking only for myself, I was conditioned to believe that the meaning of the two words, "soul" and "spirit" were one and the same, or interchangeable.
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I have done a great deal of personal research on this. I have found a very good brief description that I feel relates to my own understanding.


Also, there is a distinction in ancient cultures and languages. Here is a brief list.

  • English: Soul / Spirit
  • Latin: Anima / Spiritus
  • Greek: Psyche /Pneuma
  • Israel: Ruwach / Nephesh
  • Sanskrit: Atma / Prana
  • Egypt: Ba/ Ka
  • Persia: Urvan / Daena
  • Islam: Ruh/ Nafs
  • India: Jiva / Atman
  • China: Hun / Po
  • Haiti: Bon Ange /Ti Bon Ange
  • Hawaii: Uhane / Unihipili


DK
 
Nightrain1 said:
Although I have my own misgivings about the accuracy of many parts of the bible in view of documented "adjustments" made to the scriptures after 325 A.C.E., I still find it interesting that some scholars have managed to find passages, which seem to indicate evidence of gnostic beliefs which could support reincarnation.
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The division of Christian teachings into exoteric--public--and esoteric--secret--was understood by genuine Christian teachers to be the same as in other religious and philosophic systems. This is made particularly clear in Origen's book Origen Against Celsus.

  • "That there should be certain doctrines, not made known to the multitude, which are [revealed] after the exoteric ones have been taught, is not a peculiarity of Christianity alone, but also of philosophic systems, in which certain truths are exoteric and others esoteric. Some of the hearers of Pythagoras were content with his ipse dixit; while others were taught in secret those doctrines which were not deemed fit to be communicated to profane and insufficiently prepared ears. Moreover, all the Mysteries that are celebrated everywhere throughout Greece and barbarous countries, although held in secret, have no discredit thrown upon them, so that it is in vain he [Celsus] endeavours to calumniate the secret doctrines of Christianity, seeing that he does not correctly understand its nature."


The esoteric teachings given by Jesus to selected initiates were not written down, but were taught orally to those deemed worthy to receive them, to aspirants who formed small communities which remained in touch with the central body.


Source: Initiation Into the Higher Mysteries
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During the period from A.D. 250 to 553 controversy raged, at least intermittently, around the name of Origen, and from this controversy emerged the major objections that orthodox Christianity raises against reincarnation. Origen of Alexandria, one of Christianity's greatest systematic theologians, was a believer in reincarnation.
Origen was a man devoted to scriptural authority, a scourge to the enemies of the church, and a martyr for the faith. He was the spiritual teacher of a large and grateful posterity and yet his teachings were declared heresy in 553. The debates and controversies that flared up around his teachings are in fact the record of reincarnation in the church.


Source: Reincarnation and the Church
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I do think it was somewhere in this time frame and controversy around reincarnation where the 'spirit' and theory of the pre-existence of the 'soul' - sort of got blurred and blended into the interchangeable misconception.


IMO.


DK
 
Hi Nightrain,


In scriptures both very often refer to one or another interchangedly. In my own definition, "Soul" = "Consciousness", and "Consciousness" = "Mind". Each "Soul" is an "Individual Consciousness".


"Spirit", on the other hand, is more associated to the "Spiritual Body", or the combination of Soul and Spiritual Body. The term "Spirit" meaning a "Spiritual Entity".


An analogy I like to use is that of an upturned lamp, where the "Soul" would be the incandescent wiring, "Spirit" or "Spiritual Body" would be the light, and the "Physical Body" would be the glass.


The Soul/Consciousness "creates" both the Spiritual and the Physical bodies. "Mind" or "Ego", on the other hand, I would associate to what I like to call the "Physical Consciousness Cap" which, in each new incarnation, "hampers", as it were, the deeper "Spiritual Consciousness", which while we are incarnated manifests itself as our "Subconsciousness"...


Sigmund Froyd developed his theories basing himself upon the "Physical Consciousness Cap" (including his theory regarding me and my Mom... :D ). Carl Jung went deeper, and began to examine more the "Subconscious Spiritual Consciousness".


When we pass over to the "the other side", our Soul-Consciousness continues in its momentum by its "conditioning", and in the far more subtle energies of the Spiritual Realms it "creates" much more rapidly, and usually maintains the Spiritual Body in the same "conditioned state" as it did with the Physical Body, which is why children also remain in the same Consciousness & Spiritual Body state. Even in the other side, they continue to be "children". And as they have already gone through the preparatory stages for reincarnating, they usually do so very rapidly...
 
HI Nightrain,

How would you define soul and spirit? Are they the same? Or, are they different?
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When I think of the differences of soul and spirit, I cannot help but go back to an experience I had. I was OBE - and felt myself leave my physical body. From a perspective above me sleeping, in what I can only describe as an ethereal body, I was reading a book and glanced down at me sleeping. There were two of me.


But then ------


My consciousness expanded and moved above my ethereal body. I was in Golden Light and in Light. I could see my ethereal body reading and my physical body sleeping. There was three of me. The physical, the soul(ethereal), and in the Light - Spirit.


To me - there is a difference and words just cannot describe. ;)
 
Hi Deborah,


What a fantastic and wonderful experience that must have been.. :)


I have never experienced an OBE or an NDE, but it is said that there is a 4th component called an "ethereal body" or an "ethereal double", an intermediary "body" that links the spiritual one to the physical one, and which also "decomposes" upon the physical body's death.


It is said that the "spiritual body" consists basically of "light", and btw, I congratulate you that the light you saw was golden, for from what I know it is of the purest kind. ;)


Do you think you could have been in "Soul/Spirit Body" looking upon the "ethereal body" reading and the "physical body" sleeping?


:) :thumbsup:
 
Charles Stuart said:
Hi Deborah,
Do you think you could have been in "Soul/Spirit Body" looking upon the "ethereal body" reading and the "physical body" sleeping?


:) :thumbsup:
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Hi Charles,


When you mentioned the ethereal body reading and the physical body sleeping, you reminded me of Edgar Cayce's experience of sleeping on books, while, somehow, absorbing their contents. Wouldn't it be great if we all had that ability? I have heard of such things elsewhere, but all I ever gained from trying the same thing was a stiff neck and a headache.


Could it be, I wonder, if some mysterious aspect of the ethereal body is what facilitates this ability? Is it also possible that it is the ethereal body that is responsible for extra sensory perception?


This, in turn, brings up another question: How is the ethereal body related to soul and spirit? Could the ethereal body actually be the soul? If not, what would be the reasoning for so many aspects of our existence?


And now, the $64,000 dollar question:


Are there as many different aspects of learning as there are of our existence? I have reflected upon what some people refer to as being "all knowing" when trying describe our state of mind, between incarnations. This description, however, seems to be too simple, because "all knowing" implies that we know everything there is to be learned; which begs the question, "Why bother going back to the classroom?".


I do suspect that there may be different kinds of knowledge, which can only be obtained upon the relative planes in which that knowledge resides. For example, the secrets of the Freemasons and the location of James Hoffa's body may be knowledge that can only be learned on this plane. but, is it? Can it can also be learned psychically by the etherial body? Or, can it be known simply by realizing our spiritual connection with God(ness)? Is there any way that we can learn the proper notation for theoretical physics in any other plane of existence than in this life?


-Nightrain
 
Nightrain1 said:
This, in turn, brings up another question: How is the ethereal body related to soul and spirit? Could the ethereal body actually be the soul? If not, what would be the reasoning for so many aspects of our existence?
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The etheric body, ether-body, æther body, a name given by neo-Theosophy to a supposed vital body propounded in esoteric philosophies as the first or lowest layer in the "human energy field" or aura. It is said to be in immediate contact with the physical body, to sustain it and connect it with "higher" bodies.
The English term "etheric" in this context seems to derive from the Theosophical writings of Madame Blavatsky, but its use was formalised by C.W. Leadbeater and Annie Besant due to the elimination of Hindu terminology from the system of seven planes and bodies. (Adyar School of Theosophy).


Linga sarira is a Sanskrit term for the invisible double of the human body, the etheric body or etheric double (or astral body in some Theosophical concepts). It is one of the seven principles of the human being, according to Theosophical philosophy.


Source: Etheric Body - Wikipedia
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The Linga Sarira or Linga Sharira, which is part of the lower quaternary is the eidolon of the Greeks, separated from the physical plane by a Laya center. It is the invisible double of the human body elsewhere referred to as the etheric body, etheric double, doppelgänger or bioplasmic body and serves as a model or matrix of the physical body, which conforms to the shape, appearance and condition of this "double".
The linga sarira can be separated or projected a limited distance from the body. When separated from the body it can be wounded by sharp objects. When it returns to the physical frame, the wound will be reflected in the physical counterpart, a phenomenon called "repercussion." At death, it is discarded together with the physical body and eventually disintegrates or decomposes. The mayavi-rupa, in contrast is an illusory body. Apparitions of the dead are often projections of the mayavi-rupa.


Subtle Body - Wikipeida
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Many of the conversations here are triggering recall. One of the things I did speak about as a child was this 'astral type subtle' body. As a child, I called it "Long John's." I had two different types of experiences as a child. One was when the 'silver cord' stayed attached to the physical body. (Out of body experience with loss of vital signs.) The other was an actual 'death' experience where the 'silver cord' would be detached from the physical body. These instances would take a 'divine hand' to reattach the silver cord to the physical body. (An act of divine means beyond human capacity.) This was confirmed by my Doctors. It was beyond science to explain. (I am preparing to sign a release to allow my medical evidence to go public.)


There is a big difference between a 'death experience' and a 'near death experience.' If a person has a loss of vital signs and they are still attached with the 'silver cord' then everything they experience is going to be through what I called 'wearing the long john's. Or - still in the 'subtle, astral or ethereal body.' The experience will come through a different focal point than if their are 'outside' the astral body.


When the 'silver cord' was detached - then it was a whole different experience because I shed the 'outer layer' like a locust sheds it skin. This gave my viewpoint a whole new degree of awareness. To get back into the physical body again, I had to get a new and fresh layer (astral or ethereal body) to be in. My family was always asking me about why so much energy was around me. I had on a new pair of 'long johns' that hadn't be broken in yet. The subtle or ethereal body was fresh and new - even though my physical body was the same the 'aura' around me would be intense. (I would run into people who had the gift of sight and ask me about why my aura was shining with so much energy. I can recall telling one lady I had a new pair of Long Johns. She asked me to explain and I told her about the finer points concerning the 'death' experience and she was amazed. )


I spoke to a group of three friends in 1981 and would explain my memories of my death experience in the car crash. This subject 'frightened' because they felt I was talking about the 'spirit.' It is just a 'buffer' to protect the spiritual core or essence while in the shell of the physical body.


Years later in 1998 - I spoke with Peter Novak and he thought what I was describing gave credence to his Division Theory or Binary Soul Doctrine. (Peter Novak is a researcher who studied the testimony of near death experiences and the theory of reincarnation.) I tried to explain to him I thought he had it part right (5%) and part wrong. (95%) He was looking to support his theory and thought I had it wrong. Hey, I am the one who died, went there and then came back. ;)


But my understanding of it was - just as the human physical body was made of a composite of material matter - the 'ethereal body' was composed of 'ethereal energy.' The energy would sort of go back to it's own source. It didn't retain composite of memories or any part of the 'essence of consciousness.' To me, it was just another sort of vessel similar to the physical body but only composed of 'light material.' (Those who are 'stuck in the lower regions will be stuck in the ethereal body. I was never stuck in my experiences so I don't know what causes that sort of 'non-transformation.' So those who claim to see 'ghosts' in a human form or shape - it is a good bet they are still wondering around in their 'ethereal body' and haven't shed it yet to make the leap into the higher region of the 'light realm.' ) I haven't came up with a memory which gives me mystical insight to why this happens to some who pass over.





Just another memory that was triggered and matches up with what others have theorized about the subject as indicated by the Wikipedia quotes.


DK
 
Hi Nightrain,


I believe when one says "all knowing" it is an expression being used in a comparative term to the degree of awareness while incarnate, but only God is "all knowing".


What seems to occur is that, during physical life, the greater spiritual/subconscious state is hampered by what I like to call the "physical consciounsess cap". It remains underlying and manifests itself as our "subconscious mind". After death, there is no immediate access because our consciousness remains "conditioned" to its state while incarnate. It is said that we retain our spiritual body in the image of the physical one for the same reason. We "create" its shape and format because we are "conditioned" to it being that way. Past life memories only begin to emerge after some while, the realization that we have discarnated for many only happens after some time; as I said before, there are no "quantum leaps".


I am having to rely on Spiritualist texts (Allan Kardec) here now, and not from experience, but what is said is that:


Soul = Creative Individual Consciousness / Divine Essence


Mind / Ego = Physical Consciousness Cap


Spirit = Soul & Spiritual Body / Spiritual Entity


Ethereal Body = Intermediate link between Spiritual and Physical Bodies / Exact image of physical body which also "decomposes" after death


Physical Body = The only one we know and can see while incarnate

Could it be, I wonder, if some mysterious aspect of the ethereal body is what facilitates this ability? Is it also possible that it is the ethereal body that is responsible for extra sensory perception?
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Just for the sake of "terminology", I would say that this capacity pertains to the "spiritual body", not the "ethereal" one...

Are there as many different aspects of learning as there are of our existence?
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Life and the universe being infinite, I would say "yes"...
 
When I think about God...I think of a Super Spiritual Consciousness....If we are all part of God and made in his image....then we are also a Spirit seeking super consciousness. Our Spirits come into physical bodies and our souls come with us to record and remember everything we think or do. As we proceed into other lives....our soul comes along carrying all the old memories and habits that we have piled up along the way. We have trouble remembering that we are really spirits in physical bodies....Our ego and our personal will often get us into trouble. Meditation is a wonderful way to stay connected to walking in the light....


That is just my personal belief.....
 
Hi Florence, ;)

As we proceed into other lives....our soul comes along carrying all the old memories and habits that we have piled up along the way.
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And knowledge gained from experience...!!! :thumbsup:


Personally, though, I believe it is the other way round: it is the Soul/Consciousness/True Self that is the main character in the play, and it is this "God Particle" that we all carry, and which in essence is who we "truly are", that brings with it the "Spiritual Body" along, as it learns and progresses further via the experiences of each incarnation/lifetime... : angel
 
Yes, I understand what you are saying...We are a Trinity of God's Spirit, the Soul and the body/personality.


I think your Spirit is the highest part of you...a direct creation of God. It's perfect and has a oneness with God.


Your Spirit is also creative and created an image to live on Earth in the human experience. That image is your Soul which has human character and lives a human experience.


Gods Holy Spirit is still alive in the wrld and has an influence on YOUR Spirit....which in turn has an influence on your Soul (or higher self)


That Soul that has it's roots in the spirital plane as well as the Earth plane tries to guide you and your personality in this life


I think your personalty can choose to accept or not what your Soul or Higher Self is trying to tell you Because your Soul has human character it can go on it's own path....good or bad.


When you pass on to another human experience your Soul, Spirit and God's Holy Spirit come with you.


There is always guidance, love, light and healing available from Gods Spirit to yours to your Soul .


Your Soul can only receive to it's own level because the personality must evolve to understand this and to share with others. The Soul evolves then, as does the Earthly personality
 
Hi Florence,


:D : angel ;) :thumbsup: )*(

I think your Spirit is the highest part of you...
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Just for the sake of "terminology", however, let's call it the Soul/Consciousness, and "Spirit" the combination of Soul and Spiritual Body, also referred to as a "Spiritual Entity"...
 
OK Sweetpea....grin....."Charles"


Sounds very good to me....I am your friend and your fellow Spiritual Entity...


Did I ever mention that I read and enjoyed your posts long before I ever joined myself. I still do and I think you are a lovely soul....Have a great day!!!
 
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