At the end merging with "God"?

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by Crazy Train, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. Crazy Train

    Crazy Train New Member

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    This is something that I have not seen a lot of detail on.

    When we have advanced to the proper level, we supposedly merge with "God".

    What exactly does that mean?

    This lack of detail seems to me to be intentional. It's vaguely mentioned in things I've read but nothing is ever said to explain what it means. At least nothing that I've ever read has explained this.

    What do you think? To me it sounds like cosmic suicide (like Franz Bardon in the book Frabato, if you've read it), but I know I could be wrong, and probably am wrong. But I don't know one way or the other.
     
  2. usetawuz

    usetawuz Senior Registered

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    I do not think anyone here can give you an answer as to what it means. I think the idea is nebulous because no one at our level has come anywhere near it and has no experience with it.
     
  3. Owl

    Owl Super-alt Mitglied

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    I used to think that it comes a point where we "merge with the universe" that would be the same as merging with God but with another name. Now I decide to not really bother about this issue and disregard it altogether since there are so many things that deserve our attention first, like what exactly chemically or physically is the soul (and how it works explained with hard sciences)


    Anyways, the concept of merging with God or the universe simply means that we lose our conscious of self, our soul becomes indistinguishable than other souls because we reached the point we had to reach, learn the lessons we had to learn, so all the souls at that point are the same, so they all merge into a "Ball of Universe" or "Ball of God". Then we're part of the power of nature, part of everything not being attached to a body. That's at least how I interpreted it.


    I think it's better though to not even worry about these issues since all speculation would be futile and focus on what we can experience or what it's more easy to try to prove or understand with science.
     
  4. Crazy Train

    Crazy Train New Member

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    Agreed. But they can say what they think it means. Perhaps others, better read than I am, have read something that makes sense to them.


    People may have come nowhere near it, but it's been stated as if it's fact, so they came near something to be able to state this as fact. Unless they made it up, and like other things it took on a life of its own because no one questioned it. People love to copy/paste the same things.


    I find it hard to believe that people have been told this from I assume a good source, but don't ask the obvious (in my opinion) questions. The total lack of follow-up is interesting.
     
  5. Owl

    Owl Super-alt Mitglied

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    That' s a bingo! Maybe it was in some buddhist book, hindu sacred book, or wherever.The problem is, a lot of things in the reincarnation field are stated as fact, it' s turning to be as dogmatic as any religion because nobody bothers to try to give a scientific explanation to the things they experience, people like to theorize too much about issues that might not even exist, the example I always give is how it was being discussed somewhere online about "the layers of the astral plane" ... Do we even know what the astral plane is for sure?? Do we even know it exists? We just assume that the soul exists because we see it' s manifestations, however, we still need to prove it' s existence to find out how it works and then be able to move on onto other things.


    That' s just my opinion though, sorry for deviating your topic.
     
  6. Crazy Train

    Crazy Train New Member

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    Your opinion makes good sense to me. And you're not deviating anything.


    This love of dogma is a trap that is easy to fall into. I've done it myself more than once.
     
  7. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    I have come across the phrase "merging with God" many times throughout my reading, and have some understanding in each case of what each particular author may have meant to say. Some of it, as you say, may come from the kind of proverbial "cut and paste" that everyone engages in from time to time. We all read or hear phrases that capture our imagination, and include them in our own conversations and writings without knowing their true source or meaning. Frankly, I think that some people associate the concept with the kind of emotional merging that they sometimes feel when in the arms of a lover, or surrounded by the unconditional filial love of one's family or friends. On another level, however, some people intend it as a philosophical concept, which attempts to describe our ultimate purpose—to become a part of God, or to even become gods in our own right.


    I would agree that our ability to project ourselves into what amounts to a totally different existence is understandably beyond our comprehension. If someone appeared as a teacher who claimed to have been from such a very high plane of existence trying to describe such a place, we would probably refer them to a Hollywood horror-film scriptwriter or to one of the few mental hospitals that are still open. And, like the hero in "Allegory of the Cave" in Plato's Republic, such a person coming into our cave to release us into the sunlight might end up dead.


    However, the concept is not so foreign to those of us who can relate to the earthly analogy of being "part of something", or belonging to something that is larger than ourselves. The appeal of merging ourselves as individuals into a community is almost universal, and has been the basis of the above "merging with God" concept, which is an extension of our basic social need. Although we strive for individuality, we do so to be accepted as a recognized member of a group, without which we cannot survive. Thus, it is easy to project our purpose as being the ultimate merging of our individual selves with something that we call "God", which is something that we cannot adequately define.
     
  8. Crazy Train

    Crazy Train New Member

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    That highlights the problem. It's left to the reader to determine what is only hinted at. That's aggravating.

    You put that well. And it makes sense to me. So long as one doesn't lose their individuality, their identity. Either we're eternal, or we're not. I believe we are.


    I've read where we basically start over, on a higher plane. I've also read where we merge and lose our individuality, basically dying.


    I know this is not an easy question to answer. In fact, I believe it to be impossible to answer. It just bugs me that writers presume to open up this can of worms and never seem to elaborate.

    I can see that. But if we can't define "God", how can we see merging with that "God" as our ultimate purpose?


    I'll tell you what I think, as of right now anyway. I think people come up with these ideas in order to 1) sound so very spiritual and 2) to sell books so they can then 3) become VIP gurus.


    They are ideas that sound good on the surface, until they face someone that looks deeply into their ideas and questions them.


    I think the writers would rather people hang on to their own ideas on the answer than to explain what they are writing about, when it comes to this particular topic. Less awkward that way. Knowing people, I bet not too many will bother questioning them anyway. "Experts" aren't questioned, they're listened to.
     
  9. usetawuz

    usetawuz Senior Registered

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    I think some writers may be hacks as you describe, but you are painting with an awfully broad brush. The majority of the books I have read aren't trying to "prove" anything, nor trying to make you believe what they are writing; they seem to me to be describing what they have found and the impressions they have gotten that provided answers and a belief framework for them. I appreciate their sharing as it gives me a platform from which to broaden my own viewpoint...not so much taking their comments as gospel, but seeing what they found in specific situations and enabling me to compare their views, beliefs, feelings and understandings to my own. Some provide me the internal resonance I understand to be truth while others hold less or none, and for me they are not valid.


    As for seeking answers for certain aspects, procedures and frameworks so much greater than anything we could ever conceive, much less have words to describe (such as merging with God or even defining God), I really don't know what end it would serve...another incomprehensible situation defying all attempts to describe it would tend to confound rather than enlighten.
     
  10. Crazy Train

    Crazy Train New Member

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    I qualified it with "when it comes to this particular topic."


    That topic being "merging with "God".


    That is what is never explained, from what I've read.


    I too enjoy reading others perspectives, just so they explain those perspectives and don't demand anyone take anything said on blind faith. I may or may not agree with them, but at least I can then understand them and keep those possibilities in mind, since I know I don't know everything and can be wrong sometimes.


    I too look for resonance, as well as anecdotal evidence like regression, spontaneous recall, etc.


    When it comes to proof, I think if reincarnation was somehow proven to be true, via the scientific method, a substantial number of people would continue to say it is all a satanic deception and demons were involved, you're goin' to hell etc. At least that's how I see it here in the US.
     
  11. usetawuz

    usetawuz Senior Registered

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    This is why I am not concerned about seeking absolute verification...it just doesn't matter, and those who will not believe will not be swayed. I take comfort in the fact they will "play the game" and return with the rest of us whether they believe it or not.
     
  12. Kohr-Ah

    Kohr-Ah New Member

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    I agree. Merging with "God" means total destruction of soul. Without identity and individuality you cease to exist. Fortunately, there is zero evidence to support this theory and best survival related research seems to negate it.


    Merging with god is merely a misinterpretation or a new age belief. If you read NDErs accounts, you will see that even in accounts, where NDEr is merged totally with the light, individuality and identity are retained.


    Evolved spirits have told through mediums that identity and individuality are never lost. Best out-of-body explorers say also that possible evolution of consciousness is endless.
     
  13. Crazy Train

    Crazy Train New Member

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    This is why I value regression, even though I haven't had much success with it yet. I'm limited to using MP3s and doing it myself.


    With regression, we can see and know for ourselves and not depend on another persons word.


    If all writers would only focus on teaching how to get that information for ourselves, and not just spoon-feed readers their version, things would be much less confusing and the obtained information would be more consistent (probably).


    But, there would be fewer books, and not as much money being made, and what would the gurus do when no one came to them for answers?


    And, I guess babies need their spoon-feeding.
     
  14. usetawuz

    usetawuz Senior Registered

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    While other evolved spirits have said that "all is one" on the other side as well...individuality being valid on some level, but there is no separation on the other side...as if one was a drop of water in the ocean...that drop is distinct, but not separate. With that said, I agree that the experiences of each "individual" are never lost and are recorded in the akasha, and that evolution of consciousness is endless, to me, there would be no "soul suicide" in merging with God because we are just adding our soul's "drop of water" to the greater Ocean.
     
  15. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    Although I do believe that our souls evolve through many stages toward an eventual "merging" with God, I don't believe that our sense of individual identity is lost in any way, and that, if anything, it is enhanced. This may seem contradictory, but can be explained by differentiating two different and incompatible analogies: one being that of a drop of water merging with the ocean, and the other being a single living human cell working in harmony with others to form a human body.


    In the analogy of a drop of water all identity of that individual drop is lost as it merges with the ocean. In the analogy of a single cell, however, each cell becomes specialized and more individualized as it works in concert with other individualized cells to form the human body. In like manner, as each soul becomes more specialized it becomes more important for the overall functioning of the spiritual community.


    Although it seems to be a tremendous leap from our present state into one of supposedly being "one with God", it can be said that all aspects of our existence appear to point in this direction. Our psychology, our science and all of our philosophy and history points to the eventual forming of a universal community in which we not only retain our individuality, but we also grow spiritually while forming a larger and more powerful entity. Some call this powerful entity God, and some call it "Universal Consciousness". But, nonetheless, many believe this Universal Consciousness is us.
     
  16. usetawuz

    usetawuz Senior Registered

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    I see your point...but I was describing a drop of water that stays distinct from the other drops without loss of identity, despite being immersed in the same ocean...I know, it is a flawed analogy as drops do not stay distinct, but in this case mine must or it doesn't "hold water"!
     
  17. Crazy Train

    Crazy Train New Member

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    If these authors would simply explain it (merging with "God") in the terms you used, I don't think there would be a problem with any misunderstandings or just plain confusion. They may or may not agree, but at least they can understand a persons ideas on the subject.


    It makes sense to me.
     
  18. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Hi Crazy Train.


    One of the things I did when first learning about Soul/spirit/OBE's GOD and states of consciousness was look into other cultures. Ancient cultures and their spiritual beliefs. I like the Tibetan Book of the Dead and their explanation for the dharmata bardo, which is the experience of luminosity and literally means the essence of things as they are.


    This experience is the experience of energy, such as space, water, fire and air. The dharmata is the experience of Light and energy in subtle space. The bardo is the experience between two things, the duality of experience -- dualities like birth and death, and the gap between the two (pages #11 & #37 translation by Francesca Fremantle and Chogyam Trungpa).


    In reference to this duality and luminosity, it states:

    To me, God is LIGHT,we are The Light, and so is the world. Gregg Braden in his book The Isaiah Effect, expresses it very well.

    What amazes me is how much reading I had to do, both scientific studies and spiritual studies to find...there is a common thread that runs though them. Look past the New Age crap (IMHO) and into ancient wisdom, scientific studies of consciousness and explore within yourself, to find your truth.


    The Gnostics for example did not teach from a book about God - but believed you had to have the EXPERIENCE to know Him/Her. You had to take the journey..(Meditation -spiritual awareness -rites of passage etc.) Once you had the experience there were no words to explain. It's a knowing beyond words.
     
  19. Crazy Train

    Crazy Train New Member

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    To me the "new age" is corrupted and repackaged "old age". But I get your point and in my opinion it is a valid point.


    Wisdom is where you find it, I guess. Even the


    new age and the bible have some wisdom. It's widely scattered and buried deep in my opinion, but it's there.


    I wonder if seeking experience instead of seeking knowledge in books is directly related to a spirits maturity level. Having said that, I read (!) that people tend to overestimate their own maturity level. I might be doing that myself.


    I've heard of the Tibetan Book Of The Dead, and will try and find a copy and see of I can make heads or tails of it. Thanks!
     
  20. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    Although you may find the Tibetan Book of the Dead interesting, it may not provide you with the kind of information about the afterlife that many of us can relate to. It is a kind of prayerbook that is meant for the living to guide the recently deceased soul through a series of illusions along a pathway that is said to last over a period of 49 days. I have used it for friends who have passed over, but I can't say that I gained any personal insight by having read it. I would recommend the Bhagavad Gita, which has had a much greater influence on my life.
     
  21. Crazy Train

    Crazy Train New Member

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