Covid19 Thread 1 (The Elephant in the Room)

Discussion in 'Members Lounge' started by SeaAndSky, Mar 12, 2020.

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  1. Jaimie

    Jaimie Senior Member

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    I'm sorry you have it this way, Eva. I would say 95% of the people I meet in my line of work are just normal nice people and one does not even think about it because well, that is normal decent behavior, it is the other 5% that take the energy out of you. I'm amazed how some can even function in society being this way. They don't even know me, yet think they are in their rights to speak a certain way, are just plain rude, but the stupidity is on them, for what ever the reason. I can't take it personal because they don't know me and I don't know them. One time when I had one of those 5% I said "you know what, it does not say in my work description that I am here to take crap so guess what, I'm not gonna take it ", fortunately that woke up the person to behave better but there have of course been times when that won't do and then I make the choice real simple - either leave or I call security. One time someone was very rude to me but the next day this person came back and I thought oh, no, but the person then just said she came by because she wanted to apologize. There will always be "idiots" around and I am sure I have been one myself too, but we can't let that negativity take over, all we can try to be is a good example of how not to be an idiot ourselves. Also in my work I know I have colleagues that have my back. There has been sudden threatening situations that has emerged and then they are always very quick to arrive and help out. It seems to be you or your colleagues should perhaps bring this subject to the table on how/what to do in these kind of situations instead of just having to swallow and take it. There is a line between giving good service and victim of abuse (word wise or worse) from customers and just having to swallow it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
  2. Eva1942

    Eva1942 A Walking Enigma...

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    I’ll leave this here.. :p

    Eva x

    939F521F-8AB9-47F7-9DB6-DDC10C72C4AC.jpeg
     
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  3. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    A problem other countries may have Today our government told 2.2 million people in Australia who hold tempory visas that include working and visitor visas and so on that they are not eligible for Australian government support and if they cannot support themselves then they have to leave Australia If Australia has 2.2 million tempory visa holders living in Australia how many do other much bigger countries have
     
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  4. AlteSeele

    AlteSeele Senior Registered

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    A friend of mine from Canada and her husband were on the Norwegian Jewel that was cruising the South Pacific when the coronavirus started getting bad. They did get to see a number of ports before everything started shutting down. The cruise originated from Hawaii and was supposed to end in Tahiti but that didn't happen. They were turned away from every port where there was an opportunity to get passengers home, even though there were no ill people on board. They did enter one to restock and refuel but no one was allowed off the ship. They were heading back to Honolulu presumably to refuel when one of the engines (or was it a propeller?) broke so they basically "limped" to that port. Hawaii wanted to send the ship on to Oakland, CA but in its condition it would not have been a good idea. So, the passengers all disembarked in Hawaii. Long story short, my friend and her husband made it back to their home in Canada and are in self-quarantine. I think they're on day 10 now. Both are still healthy. They were very lucky they had no sick people on board.
     
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  5. AlteSeele

    AlteSeele Senior Registered

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    Fortunately the US imposed travel bans for China, Iran, and South Korea early on. Where we screwed up was that we didn't impose travel bans for Europe earlier. Flights from Europe continued coming in through early March -- mostly into JFK (in New York) and EWR (in Newark, NJ). Where are the current hot spots in the US? New York City and New Jersey. My pea-brain says there has to be a connection.

    With regard to Europe, the smartest thing they did was enable their country borders again. But it was like closing the barn door after the cows had escaped. Everyone talks about Spain, France, and Italy but no one mentions Switzerland. That tiny county of around 8.5 million people is getting hammered. It also shares a border with Italy's hardest hit region, Lombardy.
     
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  6. Ceridwen

    Ceridwen Senior Registered

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    I'm certainly watching scapegoating going on (and getting told off about condemning it). I live in Britain and moved to West Wales (the more Welsh-speaking part) from England a few years back. This is an area visited by a lot of tourists in good weather (usually from elsewhere in Britain). Cue for LOTS of comments on local Facebook pages telling them to "Keep Out - don't come here this year" in no uncertain terms. Loads of people living here are making these comments - and they are doing so in very blunt/sometimes downright nasty language.

    As someone who still has my Southern English accent/slightly different Southern English way of dressing to locals here/etc/etc many people realise I'm not a "local" just by looking at me. Currently tending to "dress down" in a more similar way to "locals" here - but the second I open my mouth then that (coupled with my more "confident" attitude) show that I'm southern English. Cue for shouted (from safe distance) conversations with people as we go out for our daily exercise walk we are allowed in Britain - and it took a while for the penny to drop as to just why shortly into the conversation I was asked where I live. I innocently took the question at face value the first few times and answered "Near that local landmark" and there was a smile/nod and the conversation went on. After about the 6th time of being asked that by a stranger I finally clicked that what they were really saying was "Do you live locally? Or are you a holidaymaker or second home owner - because, if you are, then go back to your own area and you aren't welcome here".

    Now I passed the interrogation as to whether I'm "entitled" to be walking round this area - because my house is here now. But, if I lived elsewhere in the country - it would clearly have been a very different response that I received.

    I feel quite shocked by that thought.
     
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  7. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Ceridwen,

    I couldn't push "like" for your post as that might indicate that I liked its content. However, I do appreciate your reporting and some of the others who are speaking up on the growth of "incivility". This could be a big problem the longer this goes on. Not just because of the underlying fear and concern, but because people are going to get "battier" and more irritated the longer they have to stay on restriction and (for the most part) "cooped up". I saw an article stating that store alcohol sales in the U.S. were up more than 50% and online alcohol sales were up more than 200%. Domestic abuse is, apparently, also rising. So, we may find out that the human issues have to be added to the economic issues and health issues spawned by Wuhan.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  8. Ceridwen

    Ceridwen Senior Registered

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    I've been thinking on further on this since my earliest post too.

    To the effect that one would have thought most people would have been on the receiving end of scapegoating in at least one of their previous lifetimes - even if they don't remember it/don't believe in reincarnation.

    I've long thought that it must have been difficult to be the "wrong" bit of the Christian church a few centuries back in Britain. Sitting there thinking "Am I supposed to say I'm Catholic at the moment or Protestant" (to avoid being persecuted by the others). Fast forward to "What if I were a herbal wisewoman a few centuries back in Britain - and people thinking I was a witch and bullying me for it or worse?".

    Move on to last century and my current lifetime and, back in my days of schooling (ie the 1950s to 1970s) there were a huge tranche of people that left school at 16. Now, funnily enough, I got bullied in most of the schools I went to - but it struck me very forcefully that it abruptly stopped at 16 - and the reason was because every single bully type had left school - whilst I and every single one of my friends stayed on at school for further education. Hmmmm........at which point I realised the bullies were either less intelligent than my friends and I (and were trying to pull me down to the level that was all they would achieve) or they'd come from an even worse off background than I had (lower middle class in my case) and were trying to pull me down and ruin my chances that way. That taught me a lot about why some people are bullies - jealously pure and simple and "If they can't have it" then they don't want others to do so either.

    So - yep...the scapegoating going on at present has a lot in common with this.

    Now does anyone know the correct polite and totally NON-informative answer I can make to all these queries that keep popping up these days (since start of virus) as to where I live. I'm debating just starting fake coughing and, if they ask again, they get another bit of "Cough....cough....cough....cough" in response again. How does that sound for a plan?
     
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  9. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    The great toilet tissue mystery solved! Apparently o_O:

    https://marker.medium.com/what-everyones-getting-wrong-about-the-toilet-paper-shortage-c812e1358fe0

    In short, weird hoarders are not stealing the toilet tissue and hiding it in the basement/attic. This is a production and supply chain issue. Institutional toilet tissue is produced and marketed in completely different ways and flows along different channels of commerce. I don't know how it looks elsewhere, but in the U.S. it is typically in very large rolls that fit into special dispensers in bathroom stalls in stores, businesses, etc. Some may look more like the normal rolls, but would still be sold in bulk along different marketing channels to businesses, etc. The types, packaging, channels of trade, etc. used at home are completely different.

    However, where are all the people now and where are they not? You got it! ;) They are not out in business, work, school and institutional settings, they are all or mostly sitting at home (overusing the plumbing and toilet tissue made for domestic consumption)! Apparently domestic demand has skyrocketed, exhausting existing stocks and production capacity. :cool:

    Hmmm. Seems like there should be a solution to this, even if it means we have to take those big old commercial rolls and figure a way to use them at home. :rolleyes:

    S&S
     
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  10. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Ceridwen,

    I'd be careful about the coughing. You could have people attacking you with stones or worse. Also, some people have been arrested in the U.S. for doing things like saying they have Covid and "coughing" on others (I suppose in a threatening way). A species of assault? :cool: Anyhow, maybe you could just say, "It's a secret dearie, but I'd be glad to whisper it in your ear if you like," and then move in their direction if they are outside of the current "boundaries" set, or act like you're going to do so if they are closer. ;)

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
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  11. Speedwell

    Speedwell Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    In the UK, at least one person has already received a year's prison sentence for doing just that to a police officer. I noticed other cases have been reported, but I'm not aware of the outcomes.
     
  12. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

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    Ceridwen, as someone from England who has spent several past years living and working in Wales, I find the current attitude very disappointing. When I was there, it was only in more remote parts that people were anti-English, and the worst most of them did was to switch to talking in Welsh if they saw an Englishman coming! I think it's sad that in recent times nationalism has reared its ugly head, encouraged by politicians, and produced the mentality you talk about in your post. I'm not keen on anything that divides people.

    Here, in places I've been 'scapegoated' because of my accent, thanks to the class system that sadly still seems to linger on. If I must use a label to illustrate this, I'd be upper-middle, in my natural state sound like it, and until my twenties never gave it a thought. But as time went on, having been given a hard time by so many people who considered me 'snobbish' simply because I didn't talk like them, I made a conscious decision to tone down the accent to 'neutral' and fit in. Whether that's right or wrong I don't know, but it makes life a lot easier! Regional accents are fashionable right now, so when I'm asked where I'm from, people still say 'but you don't have an accent' - as if that's surprising or in some cases undesirable. I wish we didn't have to think about such things as nationality or accents. We're just people.

    As for those of us who've had past lives in a variety of nations, the answer to 'where are you from?' is a bit of a dilemma!

    If someone asks you where you live, you could simply say 'Here,' and leave them to their own assumptions.
     
  13. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Ceridwen/Tanker,

    I may have had a somewhat different experience, growing up in the Southern U.S. Over the course of my childhood and youth, I saw the way a Southern accent was portrayed in all media shift ever more towards a position where any portrayal of a Southern accent was immediately associated with ignorance, evil or both. I could tell who the villains would be in any media presentation just from their accents. At best, anyone Southern was a pious imbecile. At worst . . . well, it is hard to find a worst, as the bottom kept going lower and lower. Even distinctively Southern characters like Presidents Washington and Jefferson had their accents eliminated in different movies or shows I remember from those days. (I suppose that was the only way they could be portrayed at all in a manner acceptable to an audience conditioned to hear the genteel accents of two Virginia gentlemen as indicating anything other than pure evil). I cannot tell that this feature of American media has shifted too much over the last 50-60 years.

    Anyhow, regional prejudice is something I know a bit about, from the receiving end. Not surprisingly, it can easily spawn a responsive disdain in the opposite direction. How this might apply in your context, I do not know. However, I have a feeling that the people of Wales, Ireland, and Scotland have not always received the respect that they might have hoped for from their English neighbors. These kinds of things do have consequences. Or, perhaps I am wrong to think this. I'll accept your judgment in the matter, since you would know better than I would.

    Cordially,
    S&S

    PS--I'm not sure that it matters, and I haven't had a DNA type test done, but my currently known ancestry is primarily English, Scottish and Swedish, with most of my ancestors arriving in the Southern U.S. after the War Between the States. One great-grandfather fought in that war for South Carolina.
     
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  14. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

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    Here's some bad news for UK - it seems that a consignment of masks for our health workers which we ordered for ourselves has been hijacked by US and we've lost out. Very sad for our under-equipped health workers.
     
  15. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Tanker,

    Can you link an article on that. I'd like to check out what is going on.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  16. There and back again

    There and back again Senior Member

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  17. There and back again

    There and back again Senior Member

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    I've said it before but no one listens and it is like talking to a wall that military surplus is an option for those needing good masks as they are reusable.
     
  18. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Latest update from the ABC (Australian Broadcast Commissions) on cruise ships in Australia... "Three more cruise ships departed Sydney Harbor overnight following a massive police operation to send coronavirus affected ships home"
     
  19. Grel

    Grel A Quebecker stuck in an American body

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    I started that today. I asked the lady to make out a list, put it on her door and I pulled up the Walmart app to get a final tally for her groceries. I knocked on her door, held up my phone and wrote the amount on a slip of paper.
    When I came back, I left everything there and the excess in an envelope with the receipt.
    She telephoned me to thank me and wanted to pay me. I refused but I did accept her thanks.
    I will do this whenever she needs it.
    April gave me a homemade mask today.
    -Grel
     
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  20. Grel

    Grel A Quebecker stuck in an American body

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    My partner pointed that out about the anti vaccine crowd. Also, she had pointed out the prepared crowd suddenly doesn't look so nutters.
    -Grel
     
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  21. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

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    S&S, I heard it on the news last night, so if I see an article I'll post a link. Of course, in these strange times, it might just be rumour, so we'll see.
     
  22. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

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    That's great, Grel. You've made a huge difference to someone's life! From someone who's on the receiving end of a good deed like that, I can tell you it lights up the whole day to have been cared about like that.
     
  23. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

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    Yeah, I took myself into isolation one month ago and people were laughing at me. Now they're not laughing any more.
     
  24. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

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  25. Grel

    Grel A Quebecker stuck in an American body

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    I can understand that discrimination issue. After so much time in Quebec, I picked up the famed accent. People think I am a foreigner and one jerk told me to go back to my country. I replied, I am working on it!
    -Grel
     
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  26. Eva1942

    Eva1942 A Walking Enigma...

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    Feel really sad about this and not sure where else to put it.. :(

    With all the problems to do with the Ruby Princess at the moment in NSW, I feel REALLY sad about it all. All those people who are trapped on there and those who just want to get home to be and feel safe again. Just like those on the Diamond Princess that we’re locked on the ship in the port of Yokohama, Japan recently.

    Hubby is watching a exposé on it currently in the lounge room and I still hear bits of it through the closed doors. I don’t understand why the NSW Health department won’t fess up to the fact that they screwed up. I cannot imagine what sort of horror and trauma their souls would be going through right now, but it poses a more spiritual question — what lesson is this teaching the souls onboard? Did their souls choose this lesson in some way or was it their freewill that landed their soul in this lesson?

    There are over 600 infected people aboard the Ruby Princess at the moment and at least 10 people have died. I just don’t understand, where are these (healthy in infected) people going to go if they are refused at any port of call because literally they are floating ‘petri dishes’. Ugh... the whole thing just makes so sad and I want to cry. But I’ve always been an ultra-sensitive soul and things like this have always upset me deeply.

    Apparently (according to Hubby) the crew are the only remaining ones onboard including the ill crew members. 3 doctors and nurses looking 1,100 crew.

    Eva x
     
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  27. AlteSeele

    AlteSeele Senior Registered

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    My husband has a lung condition, so he falls into the high risk category. I started telling him the end of February that there may come a time where he will need to stay home to avoid getting sick. He thought I was over-reacting. When we ate dinner out on March 6, I told him that based on everything that's going on, this could be the last time we will be eating dinner out for a long time. He didn't believe me, or just didn't want to. The last time he was out in public anywhere was when he accompanied me to a doctor appointment at Johns Hopkins on March 12. There, he saw first hand all the precautions people were taking and got a reality check. He's not been out in public since then and the US didn't "shut down" until around March 16. So, we've been self-isolating for a while, ourselves. I go out for groceries but do it first thing in the morning when it's not so crowded. Unpacking the stuff is an ordeal because I'm still working out my routine.
     
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  28. Ceridwen

    Ceridwen Senior Registered

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    Hi, I saw that - but I didnt know they'd made like pirates on UK orders of these. I know they hijacked ones destined for Germany. Basically it sounds like they are throwing their "superior firepower" (ie money and being a superpower) around at everyone else's expense.

    Source - it was in one of our major national newspapers - ie the "Daily Mail" a few days back. Think I might have seen it reported in another one of our papers too - ie the "Guardian".
     
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  29. tanker

    tanker Senior Registered

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    Money talks, even now. They don't care if our people die, so long as they get what they want. The UK health workers are dying because they're not adequately equipped. Two young mothers died the other day, trying to help others - it's tragic.
     
  30. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Re: Posts # 224, 231, 234, 238, 239

    Tanker/Ceridwen,

    Despite the screaming headline, the Guardian article actually contains very little on the topic outside of the first few paragraphs. Further, what the sensationalistic headline touts is not verified by any identified source and is denied by official sources.

    Based on an unidentified source, supposedly, "U.S. buyers" came in waving money and purchased masks that others had hoped to obtain:

    "Jean Rottner, a doctor and president of the GrandEst regional council, said part of the order of several million masks heading for the region, where intensive care units are inundated with Covid-19 patients, had been lost to the buyers.

    “On the tarmac, they arrive, get the cash out … so we really have to fight,” he told RTL radio.

    Rottner would not identify the buyers, . . . but another French official also involved in procuring masks from China said the group were acting for the US government." (Emphasis added)


    So, we have an actual identified source who did not identify the buyers, and an unidentified "source" who says they were acting for the U.S. government. In short, the report is not verified by the one identified witness and is unverifiable because the other "supposed" witness is unidentified--which is rather convenient from the Guardian's standpoint. o_O So, in terms of the headline and the point of the article, an unconfirmed and unconfirmable report (given the lack of an identified witness). On the other hand, the sensational sounding headline is completely denied by the only "official" source cited:

    The Guardian has contacted the US state department for comment. A senior administration official told AFP “the United States government has not purchased any masks intended for delivery from China to France. Reports to the contrary are completely false.”

    This kind of "reporting" and headline by the Guardian is irresponsible. I have a very low opinion of most news sources. This is not a news source I usually check, but I guess I will henceforth add the "Guardian" to my "don't even bother to look at it" list.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
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