Do souls have gender?

[Totoro]

However, one thing that seems to be pretty uniform across all of the researchers (and there are many), is that we freely choose to enter a cross-gender lifetime. If this is true, the question then becomes--Why? This is especially pertinent when there is a gender awareness breach (so to speak) in the memory barrier, which often (by my observation) seems to result in dysphoria in various degrees. Totoro knows why "she that was" chose to be "he who is", and has chosen (as far as I can tell) to "soldier on" in this lifetime (and Totoro is not the only one).

S&S, I wanted to make sure I replied to to this and sorry if it was belated as the thread rolled on before I did. But, yes it was a choice on all fronts and still continues to be, with varying degrees of difficulty. During the usual day to to day, it's not difficult, but then life slows down or it may throw me a curveball and the feeling that the body I'm really in (or would prefer to be) and the one I'm really in, don't match. The intensity of that feeling will also vary greatly too.

The why is that I'm here for my son. I think you know that from previous conversations, correct me if I'm wrong, but also for those that don't know my story 100%, I think my son has always been my son in one form or another. I only really have proof going back two lives, but in both of those, we didn't have the close, focused relationship and interaction that we do now. In the second life, I died only a year after he was born and in my last, we did spend a great deal of time together, but I died at 40. His previous life died in 2007 and he went on record many times over saying that he didn't fully appreciate me, in many ways.

At the time, it was quite heartbreaking to read and experience. I was in a fog for a long time grieving for my past life, as I died through circumstances beyond my control. That life was very special to me, but it wasn't meant to be, for whatever reason. Knowing I left my son (younger brother in that life) heartbroken and remorseful, simply added to that grief. However now, he's my natural son again and I've been with him his whole life and will continue to do so. At 40, my ex and I separated and divorced and astute observers will notice the alignment with the age I died in my last life. As painful as that whole process was (the divorce), I can only conclude that it was my own soul plan or contract, for this life.

 

[John Tat]

I believe the soul/spirit has gender

What is lost in this discussion is.... when and how does a soul/spirit know that the embryo is either male or female?

The sex of the physical is determined at conception... All of the organs are formed in the first 10 to 11 weeks .. then the embryo becomes a fetes

The question is....At what point does our souls/spirits become aware of the gender of the embryo/fetes and how long after conception do they wait before they make the decision to become part of the embryo/fetes?

This is a serious consideration.. because it's a major factor in how things turn out/happen

IMO much depends upon how advanced/experienced a soul/spirit is in going through the reincarnation process.. how many mistakes have they made?

Younger, inexperienced souls/spirits could roll the dice so to speak .. before they know .. causing all sorts of problems for the physical entity... when there is not a match between soul/spirit gender and physical gender is when many problems occur.. for example.... having a female gendered soul/spirit in a physically male body .... that causes all sorts of problems

I know my pure spiritual self waits until the moment before birth of the physical entity ... he waits until he knows everything is OK

Which raises another question.... do souls/spirits select who there physical mother will be making sure they can enter the embryo/fetes when they choose?

Waiting until the sex of the embryo/fetes is known to our souls/spirits and enough time has elapsed for things to settle down is not only extremely important for the next incarnation but also a very basic for the more experienced souls/spirits.... when to become part of a embryo/fetes may revolve around when the time has passed when the mother could loose her baby which would make it a long time after conception that the soul/spirit makes the decision to became part of the fetes

 

[melon04]

I believe the soul/spirit has gender

What is lost in this discussion is.... when and how does a soul/spirit know that the embryo is either male or female?

The sex of the physical is determined at conception... All of the organs are formed in the first 10 to 11 weeks .. then the embryo becomes a fetes

The question is....At what point does our souls/spirits become aware of the gender of the embryo/fetes and how long after conception do they wait before they make the decision to become part of the embryo/fetes?

This is a serious consideration.. because it's a major factor in how things turn out/happen

IMO much depends upon how advanced/experienced a soul/spirit is in going through the reincarnation process.. how many mistakes have they made?

Younger, inexperienced souls/spirits could roll the dice so to speak .. before they know .. causing all sorts of problems for the physical entity... when there is not a match between soul/spirit gender and physical gender is when many problems occur.. for example.... having a female gendered soul/spirit in a physically male body .... that causes all sorts of problems

I know my pure spiritual self waits until the moment before birth of the physical entity ... he waits until he knows everything is OK

Which raises another question.... do souls/spirits select who there physical mother will be making sure they can enter the embryo/fetes when they choose?

Waiting until the sex of the embryo/fetes is known to our souls/spirits and enough time has elapsed for things to settle down is not only extremely important for the next incarnation but also a very basic for the more experienced souls/spirits.... when to become part of a embryo/fetes may revolve around when the time has passed when the mother could loose her baby which would make it a long time after conception that the soul/spirit makes the decision to became part of the fetes

So based on what you said, does anybody know when the embryo/fetus gets a soul? Is it at conception or later on?

 

[There and back again]

So based on what you said, does anybody know when the embryo/fetus gets a soul? Is it at conception or later on?

There is a lot of material out there on the net be it what people have said for themselves never mind recorded sessions that the soul is involved with the body pretty early on that the fetus ect isn't just a clump of cells to be inhabited later ect.

 

[Totoro]

Younger, inexperienced souls/spirits could roll the dice so to speak .. before they know .. causing all sorts of problems for the physical entity... when there is not a match between soul/spirit gender and physical gender is when many problems occur.. for example.... having a female gendered soul/spirit in a physically male body .... that causes all sorts of problems

I know my pure spiritual self waits until the moment before birth of the physical entity ... he waits until he knows everything is OK

Which raises another question.... do souls/spirits select who there physical mother will be making sure they can enter the embryo/fetes when they choose?

Waiting until the sex of the embryo/fetes is known to our souls/spirits and enough time has elapsed for things to settle down is not only extremely important for the next incarnation but also a very basic for the more experienced souls/spirits.... when to become part of a embryo/fetes may revolve around when the time has passed when the mother could loose her baby which would make it a long time after conception that the soul/spirit makes the decision to became part of the fetes

So based on what you said, does anybody know when the embryo/fetus gets a soul? Is it at conception or later on?

John Tat, I've often had the same thoughts. I just want to provide the disclaimer though, that nobody really knows why people may or may not feel in alignment with their physical sex. It is a very personal and individual thing and there is no one size fits all answer. I do think past life research may be able to provide the individual with some insight into why that may be, for them.

But I did take all that into account, thinking about my own issues for many years. Maybe I choose wrong or mad a bad guess at what would make me happy for this life, I rolled the dice and lost, or even as you posted, I messed up the "creation" process. My own research has shown me that I chose all of this and my other lives without a doubt. My birthdates, for my current and last two lives are the same day and month. I was born in 1780 on Monday, 1906 on Tuesday and 1974 on Wednesday. To have the exact same birthday and to born on the following day of the week in the next life, took some planning between me, my parents, their parents or whatever, I am not really sure how it came to be, but I am literally dumbfounded at the whole thing.

So yes, on some level, choice reigns supreme. And maybe "younger" souls lack the control over the process, as you suggested, or perhaps in early soul life, souls experiment with one gender or the other until they get a fully developed sense of who they are.

John & Melon, I've reincarnated with the same family many times over. Mostly through conversations on the forum, I've learned that's more particular to eastern families and that may also explain the alignment in all of my birthdates; we all may just be in our cycles that we've been reincarnating through for years. So I believe for me, we have chosen the roles we are playing for one another, including my mother.

I have heard that western lives are more individualistic, which means they may also be more opportunistic and competitive. Meaning perhaps that maybe souls do wait around for people to conceive and then try to influence it or just jump in. Many of the children's cases we've heard of in the west, often have kids say things like they had different mothers at one point or that they chose their current one. This may be another reason there is sometimes a mismatch between gender and physical sex. On the flip side of that, that may also be why I've had more choice over my incarnations: we're working as a family unit to make sure everyone has what they want for that current life. Actually, my sister in this life, used to be my older brother in our previous ones and I would have no reason not to assume, given all of this, that her choice was as conscious as was mine.

I have read that the soul does not become totally inseparable from the body until until around age 4-6 and that it is possible for the soul to leave and return to the body quite freely up until that point. I recall quite a few out of body experiences I had at that age and not knowing what they were, I was convinced I could fly! Of course none of my childhood friends believed me. Also in childhood psychology, there is a point where children forget their earliest memories around this age as well. They say it's due to the brain not being fully developed and not able to convert memories to long term storage. Perhaps this was designed as a way to give the soul an opportunity to try out the body before fully committing; perhaps if something went wrong that was outside of the souls control like physical or genetic defects that may prematurely end the body's life. I'm just speculating here, but after that point, IMO, it does seem to be much harder to willfully leave the body. I've only seemed to have done it since then when I've been sleeping or under duress.

 

[GalaxyDreamer90]

I'm going to post my thoughts on this topic. I know there are people who I believe could of been the opposite gender in a recent past life and that could explain some LGBT people. Also I believe there are people who have had an equal amount of male and female past lives which could explain people who are more gender fluid or even consider themselves non binary. As for me I'm not entirely sure but I believe in a majority of my lifetimes I've been female like in this life. I recently found out I'm a straight female. However, I have always been a slight tomboy. Apparently everyone has a bit of both a masculine side and feminine side. As for rather souls have gender or not I think souls have a certain gender they like to reincarnate as. I've heard a lot about and have to kind of agree that we get to choose our lives including what gender we end up as. Still even though the soul may have a certain gender it might reincarnate as I still believe the soul is non binary. This may why everyone has a bit of a masculine and feminine side no matter what gender they are or what they choose to identify as.

 

[Polaris8]

I believe the soul/spirit has gender

What is lost in this discussion is.... when and how does a soul/spirit know that the embryo is either male or female?

The sex of the physical is determined at conception... All of the organs are formed in the first 10 to 11 weeks .. then the embryo becomes a fetes

The question is....At what point does our souls/spirits become aware of the gender of the embryo/fetes and how long after conception do they wait before they make the decision to become part of the embryo/fetes?

This is a serious consideration.. because it's a major factor in how things turn out/happen

IMO much depends upon how advanced/experienced a soul/spirit is in going through the reincarnation process.. how many mistakes have they made?

Younger, inexperienced souls/spirits could roll the dice so to speak .. before they know .. causing all sorts of problems for the physical entity... when there is not a match between soul/spirit gender and physical gender is when many problems occur.. for example.... having a female gendered soul/spirit in a physically male body .... that causes all sorts of problems

I know my pure spiritual self waits until the moment before birth of the physical entity ... he waits until he knows everything is OK

Which raises another question.... do souls/spirits select who there physical mother will be making sure they can enter the embryo/fetes when they choose?

Waiting until the sex of the embryo/fetes is known to our souls/spirits and enough time has elapsed for things to settle down is not only extremely important for the next incarnation but also a very basic for the more experienced souls/spirits.... when to become part of a embryo/fetes may revolve around when the time has passed when the mother could loose her baby which would make it a long time after conception that the soul/spirit makes the decision to became part of the fetes

John Tat,

As I understand it, when a soul decides to reincarnate the process is done on the 6th dimension or causal/soul plane. Here we are above time, space and duality. This is a dimension, where the soul has access to all possibilities and outcomes in various realities within the lower worlds of duality in which we live here as it is above time as we understand it. If the soul is of a younger stage of spiritual development, then it will be assigned to a group of older souls which act as teaches or guides to determine what reality and incarnation best suites its new spiritual lessons and education while in the flesh. All the details are worked out including race, gender, state of health of the body being formed, parents which, the soul will have karmic connection to ect.... Several realities will be looked at and play out on that dimension to narrow down the decision before there is a commitment to the actual process of descending downward into the lower worlds of the mental, astral and physical planes. So, the gender of the physical body is already known to the soul long before it is created.

If the soul is more advance in spiritual evolution or is an old soul, it will then be a part of the process in planning out the new incarnation. Gender at least on this planet is a big determining factor in how these lessons are played out. Which is why we all experience both genders at some point in our soul journey here on the physical plane on planet earth. There are other star systems with worlds that have their own cycles of reincarnation as well and reproduction there takes on a much different path. But that's another discussion for perhaps another topic.

Great post by the way thanks!!!

Love and peace

P.

 

[SeaAndSky]

John Tat,

As I understand it, when a soul decides to reincarnate the process is done on the 6th dimension or causal/soul plane. Here we are above time, space and duality. This is a dimension, where the soul has access to all possibilities and outcomes in various realities within the lower worlds of duality in which we live here as it is above time as we understand it. If the soul is of a younger stage of spiritual development, then it will be assigned to a group of older souls which act as teaches or guides to determine what reality and incarnation best suites its new spiritual lessons and education while in the flesh. All the details are worked out including race, gender, state of health of the body being formed, parents which, the soul will have karmic connection to ect.... Several realities will be looked at and play out on that dimension to narrow down the decision before there is a commitment to the actual process of descending downward into the lower worlds of the mental, astral and physical planes. So, the gender of the physical body is already known to the soul long before it is created.

If the soul is more advance in spiritual evolution or is an old soul, it will then be a part of the process in planning out the new incarnation. Gender at least on this planet is a big determining factor in how these lessons are played out. Which is why we all experience both genders at some point in our soul journey here on the physical plane on planet earth. There are other star systems with worlds that have their own cycles of reincarnation as well and reproduction there takes on a much different path. But that's another discussion for perhaps another topic.

Great post by the way thanks!!!

Love and peace

P.

Hi Polaris,

I am not sure of your paradigm for the various planes of existence. I am fairly used to a typical line-up of ascending planes that goes: physical, astral, mental, causal, and often includes some subdivisions of the former and/or additional planes after the ones listed (though the latter seem to be often thought of as levels of divine awareness rather than levels of existence to some). So, a more detailed explanation on the planes you are speaking of would be helpful.

However, as I mentioned in a prior discussion we had on this subject, a balance of masculine/feminine characteristics at the highest levels (if such balance exists) does not eliminate the possibility of a predisposition or propensity even at those levels to be one or the other when descending to the lower planes. Certainly, I would think this exists at the causal level since it would cause the propensity to manifest as one or the other, causing the difference we see in the lower levels between masculine and feminine. As I previously observed, this in and of itself, already represents a form of gender differentiation.

However, I think that the foregoing ignores the real crux of the issue, which is the goal or direction of human life and existence. In one schemata, it is towards the transcendence of and withdrawal from the physical. It usually includes the transcendence of all of the lower levels of existence as one moves towards some type of existence and merger with the divine at the highest level of existence with the goal of freeing themselves and all other consciousnesses from the lower levels.

In a contrasting schemata, the goal is to span the gap and incorporate the divine in each level of existence, including especially the physical. In the latter schemata, the goal of existence is--ultimately--to bring God and heaven to earth, and into the heart, mind and consciousness of each individual. In the former, total transcendence model, the goal is to leave all of the lower levels behind and exist in union with God at the highest level(s) rather than to bring God down to infuse and deify all of the lower levels of existence. I believe the infusion model rather than the transcendence model is the goal of human existence. This does not mean that transcendence is not part of the pattern, but ultimately (in my belief system anyhow) God will be All in All, from highest to lowest. We, being made in God's image (once again in my belief system) will in our finitude reflect what God is in God's infinitude.

IMO, the transcendence model is more typical of the Gnostic, Cathar, Hindu, Buddhist and Eckankar religious streams. The heaven on Earth and in the human Heart model is, OTOH, essentially Abrahamic, though I will not deign to speak for Islam when saying that or anything else. (I have not studied Islam in any depth, though as an Abrahamic offshoot it probably falls into this pattern). In the Abrahamic (or infusion) model the divine is ultimately brought downward to infuse every level of existence and every level of the individual.

(cont'd)

 

[SeaAndSky]

In this regard, it is when we are in a physical form that we incorporate all levels of our existence, from causal to physical (or however else they are named/denominated). From that standpoint, we are our most complete, as we coexist on all other levels when we are in the physical. Thus, existence on this level can include the ability to act and/or exist on all other levels, though doing so (such as during astral travel) may require the temporary cessation of activity on lower levels.

Interestingly, I seem to recall some discussions of a very advanced Yogi who, while incarnate, taught his students about different levels by going into a deep meditative state and tuning his awareness successively to different levels and describing them aloud to his disciples as well as the nature of his consciousness at each level.* Anyhow, the point is that advance does not necessarily involve a permanent leaving behind of the physical universe or any of the other lower planes (as such are called). In fact, IMO, part of the reason we were created was to be here and bring God's reign to earth internally and externally, etc. So, gender is not a transitory state to me. If we are intended to be present here and in other levels of existence where gender is expressed, we will also experience duality and gender differentiation of some type.

To the extent I have not made it clear, all of the foregoing is just based on my reading and opinion (not my own exalted state of consciousness ).

Cordially,
S&S

*PS--I can't remember where that was, probably in Yogananda's autobiography

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Polaris,

This is a further follow-up to your post above on the subject of management, control and methodology in the reincarnation process. I just thought I should mention that the current system may not have been the system in the past. We tend to think that things have always followed the same pattern of choice and guidance in these matters since the beginning of time, or whenever. However, according to John Tat, things were run differently by a different "group" in an earlier age. (This is based on his prior existence as a member of the priesthood of the sun gods of ancient Egypt at the very dawn of that civilization and for many incarnations thereafer). Anyhow, according to him, there was an insurrection? war? or something of the sort that allowed a different group? god? or etc. to take over the process from the sun gods and prevent them from returning.

Consequently, as the result of this change, the governance and patterns of reincarnation are different from what they used to be. How different they might be from the time before this change I cannot say, but in any case, under different "management" due to what took place. This is an interesting concept and idea. I have my own theories on why and when this, if true, might have taken place, but that is all I have at this point = theories.

Cordially,
S&S

 

[Polaris8]

Hi Polaris,

I am not sure of your paradigm for the various planes of existence. I am fairly used to a typical line-up of ascending planes that goes: physical, astral, mental, causal, and often includes some subdivisions of the former and/or additional planes after the ones listed (though the latter seem to be often thought of as levels of divine awareness rather than levels of existence to some). So, a more detailed explanation on the planes you are speaking of would be helpful.

However, as I mentioned in a prior discussion we had on this subject, a balance of masculine/feminine characteristics at the highest levels (if such balance exists) does not eliminate the possibility of a predisposition or propensity even at those levels to be one or the other when descending to the lower planes. Certainly, I would think this exists at the causal level since it would cause the propensity to manifest as one or the other, causing the difference we see in the lower levels between masculine and feminine. As I previously observed, this in and of itself, already represents a form of gender differentiation.

However, I think that the foregoing ignores the real crux of the issue, which is the goal or direction of human life and existence. In one schemata, it is towards the transcendence of and withdrawal from the physical. It usually includes the transcendence of all of the lower levels of existence as one moves towards some type of existence and merger with the divine at the highest level of existence with the goal of freeing themselves and all other consciousnesses from the lower levels.

In a contrasting schemata, the goal is to span the gap and incorporate the divine in each level of existence, including especially the physical. In the latter schemata, the goal of existence is--ultimately--to bring God and heaven to earth, and into the heart, mind and consciousness of each individual. In the former, total transcendence model, the goal is to leave all of the lower levels behind and exist in union with God at the highest level(s) rather than to bring God down to infuse and deify all of the lower levels of existence. I believe the infusion model rather than the transcendence model is the goal of human existence. This does not mean that transcendence is not part of the pattern, but ultimately (in my belief system anyhow) God will be All in All, from highest to lowest. We, being made in God's image (once again in my belief system) will in our finitude reflect what God is in God's infinitude.

IMO, the transcendence model is more typical of the Gnostic, Cathar, Hindu, Buddhist and Eckankar religious streams. The heaven on Earth and in the human Heart model is, OTOH, essentially Abrahamic, though I will not deign to speak for Islam when saying that or anything else. (I have not studied Islam in any depth, though as an Abrahamic offshoot it probably falls into this pattern). In the Abrahamic (or infusion) model the divine is ultimately brought downward to infuse every level of existence and every level of the individual.

(cont'd)

Sea&Sky,

Much of what to said is spot on in terms of the evolution of the soul (consciousness) itself. The physical plane is the lowest expression in terms of the universes of God. But it is still a spiritual dimension in and of itself just the same. The ascending planes that, you describe physical, astral, mental, causal ect... are not really planes stacked one on top of the other per say but rather by rates of vibrations. As all of the dimensions of the universe occupy the same space and time as you and I do but are in fact different rates of vibrational frequencies. The physical plane vibrates at the lowest end of the spectrum and is the heaviest and extremely coarsest of them all. The lower astral would be on the next vibrational level being a bit finer in speed and fineness but just slightly. It is no longer physical but is in fact where the lower emotional level of awareness exists being more primal in nature as this is where instinct for survival takes place. If you go up another level in speed and fineness from there you will arrive at the middle astral which is much like our earth plane but a more perfect version of it. This is where most human beings go after the death of the physical body. If one did not know any better, they would think they have arrived in heaven. Here there is no more pain, suffering, need for money, ect.. It is the first of many heavens in the universe of God.

So, as we go up the scale in vibrational frequency there is more of a refinement of the inner nature to oneself. Our awareness also becomes more expansive and wider in view, and we understand more about ourselves as soul and to the meaning of existence itself. This procession keeps going on as soul draws closer and closer to the center of all reality itself which man would term as God. So, in reality we don't travel anywhere in space outside our self but rather in consciousness inwardly. They is why Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within you seek and you shall fine. Jesus being the avatar that he was had knowledge of this. But had to describe it in a way that the people of that time period could understand. No small task even for an avatar.

 

[Polaris8]

con't

The physical plane severs as a training ground for the soul, for it is here where most of the growing takes place. It is also a state of consciousness where the soul will know itself by its own experience. Because now the soul is a separate ego if you will in a framework as an individual that is unique to others. Thru its own actions and experiences of trial and error over the course of millions if not billions of years in evolutionary growth of consciousness does this take place. As each lifetime lived is added to the soul overall nature as a spiritual being. As some point the soul will cycle off the need for incarnation within the lower worlds and will take a more permanent place within the higher dimensions.

Love and peace

P.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Polaris,

You state: "At some point the soul will cycle off the need for incarnation within the lower worlds and will take a more permanent place within the higher dimensions."

I definitely see that as a possible destination for some. God has need of spiritually matured and competent spirits at all levels of creation. However, I do not see that as a certainty for all, as the physical is also one of those levels of creation that needs the help and supervision of the matured.

I.e., while it is true that we may not need to be here for the sake of our own maturation, having matured it is by no means certain that we may not need to be here for the sake of this aspect and part of creation. In fact, I believe that is part of the destiny for which we were created, and what my faith teaches. Also, I do not see the physical creation as some type of third-class domain. It is an incredibly vast and magnificent part of the whole. However, it is also filled with creatures to be guided to greater heights. And, like all of creation, it needs to be infused and permeated by the Light, Glory and Goodness of God. Thus, both the whole as well as the parts and inhabits of the physical domain need to be brought into harmony with God and infused with God's light and glory. This is the BIG PLAN in the Abrahamic faiths. And, I don't mind being part of this great work of God at any level of creation, and believe here is where most of us are intended to be. Nor is the physical some "ugly stepchild" that will not fulfill its destiny as a paradise of God in due course. As the Bible says: "The Earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the Glory of God as the waters cover the sea". Every plane of existence and every soul therein from highest to lowest will ultimately experience the glorious light of God! It is not just a question of us reaching and aspiring upward for bliss and Light. The good news is that God is expanding the domain of light and bliss downward to us!

Cordially,
S&S

PS--As noted, the approach of the Abrahamic faiths differs substantially from that of Eckankar and most of the Eastern faiths. I appreciate your attempts to teach me about the approach of Eckankar. However, it does not seem to differ appreciably from most of what comes from Eastern sources. Frankly, "I've been there and done that" already and in depth at an earlier stage of my life. In most of the Eastern faiths escape is sought from an irredeemable plane/world/existence/body/etc. and only beyond earthly existence can final bliss and enlightenment be found. This is seen as true to some degree in the Abrahamic faiths, but that is only on a temporary level. We are, so to speak, in the middle of a process where the light from above is reaching down to fill all levels of existence. In the long run, God will be redeeming the whole creation from top to bottom and, so to speak, bringing that bliss and glory to every level of creation. Caveat: All of the foregoing is in my humble opinion, of course.

 

[SeaAndSky]

POSSIBLE REASONS FOR CROSS-GENDER LIFETIMES:

Another topic that inevitably comes up along with the subject of soul gender is the question of "why" we have cross-gender lifetimes periodically. Totoro provides an example of a family motive and taking the opportunity to stay close to a loved one. In one of Stevenson's cases, a Japanese soldier killed in WWII stayed close to the place he was killed, took what was available, and ended up in a cross-gender incarnation.* In one of Michael Newton's cases he dealt with a person who had been a male attorney who tried to "bust up" the corruption of the rich and powerful, but ended up coming back as a woman because he thought he could more easily "get the goods" on such people by being in female form. Another category that shows up on a repeated basis are soldiers that flip after dying (often horribly) in wartime. Was that the motivation, or was it simply "time to do so" or both? Then again, why would it be "time to do so"? This goes to the fundamental question asked in this post: Absent some countervailing reason we can understand and that often gets reported by the person in question, why is 1 cross-gender lifetime out of 10 or so lifetimes such a normal and regular part of what is reported?

My own hypothesis is both Yin/Yang and Jungian (which may ultimately come down to the same thing). On the first point, those who speak in such terms postulate that the masculine yang is incomplete without its dot of yin, and vice versa. Young yang (with yin included) remains strong but pliable/flexible. Old yang, with minimum yin, become hard but inflexible/brittle = more easily broken. Likewise, yin without yang is mush. In the Jungian model, the female must be able to incorporate the masculine aspects of her being (animus) in order to be balanced and complete, and the male must do the same with the feminine aspects (anima). This process is referred to as individuation. In all of the above, however, there is a need to maintain the presence of the opposite at a healthy level.** So, what is likely to happen after numerous lifetimes in the same gender? Aren't we reinforcing this gender and simultaneously suppressing the dot of yin/yang? Something along that line would be my theory on the matter. I.e., that it is necessary periodically to reinforce the opposite gender in order to avoid an unbalanced condition. However, if so, what does this mean for those who are experiencing dysphoria and are unable to continue in their cross-gender incarnation?

In any case, the whole phenomenon seems to raise a host of questions, including many I have not introduced above or below. However, I'd rather not overload an initial post with thoughts and speculations and see what other people have to say.

Cordially,
S&S

*PS--On that topic, it is interesting to me that most accounts seem to reflect disembodied spirits rising to a higher level and receiving guidance before returning to another lifetime, including a cross-gender lifetime, while other accounts include people who never left the near earth environment before doing so. The patterns are not nearly as settled and rock-hard as we sometimes think they are. However, this may just reflect the freedom to go or not go, stay or not stay that seems to permeate the reincarnation process.

**PPS--Cross-gender lifetimes may no longer be necessary for advanced souls, who have become and are able to maintain the balance. One of my bases for thinking this is that the very advanced souls who acted as instructors of incarnating souls in Michael Newton's books tended to have and remain in a single gender form. Also, and this one really got me, the forms they maintained tended towards the very striking and strange! One as an African priestess of some type. Another as a wily old oriental magician. Etc. I'm only a dabbler in Jung, but for those interested in the Individuation process, these types of forms are typical of the strange and magical forms that are taken by the "Wise Old Man" and "Wise Old Woman" archetypes that appear as the ultimate embodiment of the unconscious in the individuation process.*** Hmm. Strange coincidence, or is Individuation part of what the whole process of "soul growth" is about?

***PPPS--read this article for more information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wise_Old_Man_and_Wise_Old_Woman

 

[fireflydancing]

@SeaAndSky a very interesting post. Close to my heart. I haven't studied this subject deeply, which means that I didn't read books and articles as you did. It's just that I haven't figured out my own experiences and I want to understand myself first before I jump to theories and experiences of other people.
There are so many snippets, feelings, past life visions, and current life interests and habits, and not enough to have a clear overall vision.

I do think that our pure souls don't have gender. I also think that most of us combine so-called male and female energies (yin and yang) within us. And this is not to be confused with physical sexuality. I also came to the conclusion that when we reincarnate, we can pick up some of our former energies that were left in the astral plane. This is what I think is meant by soul retrieval by the shamans.

In this life, I look very female and I have a typical female brain (orientated towards languages, art, psychology etc.) but I've always refused to pick up a traditional woman's role in society.
The past lives that I remember with the most details are all female lives. Somehow all of those lives were lousy lives, powerless because of being a woman. Probably the reason why I even didn't want to become a woman when I grew up as a child and a teenager. I hated the female hormones and the consequences that came with them.
I have several reasons to believe that my very last life was being male. I also have reasons to believe that during that male life I knew something was 'off' with me but I definitely had a male mindset. I don't know how I died but I think I died as a soldier. I've seen myself in an airplane just before jumping off with a parachute.
I do have visions from before that jump (work, driving a car, etc.) but not from after.

I think I changed gender just to escape and break the patterns I was in. I needed the input of different energies, working and living as a man, fighting like a man. Yang energies to balance the yin energies. And yes, I hate war and violence and torture intensely. One of the red threads throughout my current life.

This is not the end. Somehow I also have memories of lives in much older times and it seems I was always male. At least, according to the visions I had. Very male lives without confusion about gender.

And to be clear, my only confusion in this life is the tension between feeling female and feeling just genderless spirit. Despite all the possible former male lives.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Firefly,

I believe that I am also a being that is both gendered and ungendered. This is not a "hill I would die on"--it is only what I think to be likely. From my perspective it is only a way of saying--as Polaris always likes to assert--that I think there are probably levels of being--including my being--that are beyond duality. However, I do not consider that I am necessarily "less me" when I am in the levels of duality than when and to the extent I exist in less differentiated domains. However, that is ground that I already covered in my discussion with Polaris in prior posts on this thread (which I am hoping that you have read ). Nonetheless, if it was up to me, I would position a blank white circle between and joining the encircling two Yin/Yang symbols to represent the fact that there is a core area in all of us where we are just . . . people. That's the way I feel about it anyway, as if there is a common meeting ground and place of similarity beyond the M/F division that is not specifically M or F, but human and common to all humanity.

But, getting back to the question of why "feminine" souls go cross-gender (outside of the general balancing discussed), I think you have already hit on some of the major reasons. I think one strong reason is the feminine equivalent of the soldier example above = a traumatic event that one could probably escape or not be subject to by being male = rape, murder, abuse, etc. as a female by a male. However, I think your example of frustration with what might be considered to be a restrictive and oppressive role (at least in the last century or so) is also there as well. This goes hand-in-hand with a desire to exercise some talent and ability in a fuller way. Whether these last motivations are as strong as they were at one time in history I don't know, but that is probably the subject for another post.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I don't have a lot to go on when it comes to my own PLs. However, the little bit I have indicates that I was a female theosophist named Vera Johnston in the late 1800s, dying around 1920, and then died young in WWII as a female who was raped and killed, probably by the Red Army during its brutal conquest of Germany, possibly in Berlin. (I cannot, by the way, make myself "go" there in the sense of trying to recover more PL memories from that time). Thus, the little bit I have (which is quite sketchy) would make it more likely than not (based on my own logic) that my current iteration as a male is cross-gender. Like you, I can say that during my current male life I have often felt that "something was 'off' with me but I definitely had a male mindset." So, what am I to think? Actually, what I do think is that the whole set-up can lead to some very mind-bendingly weird/strange results and realizations, but is nonetheless purposeful and intended to produce the best in the long-run. Still, in some respects it has been a very hard "pill" to swallow.

 

[fireflydancing]

However, I do not consider that I am necessarily "less me" when I am in the levels of duality than when and to the extent I exist in less differentiated domains.

I agree. The way I see and experience life is that we exist in all levels and dimensions at the same 'time'. I do remember reading your discussion but I can't recall it all. I don't believe in a system of souls that need to earn some upgrading. When we want to learn things in life, it's because of the curiosity of our souls, we want to experience how things and situations will play out. This is incredibly complex.
Try to imagine the smart spirits that designed our mechanics of life. The spiritual architects. They want to know as well how things work out and guess what... they incarnate too. Not as superhumans or demigods but just as regular people who don't remember where they came from.
Never underestimate a simple soul, hahaha, cause you never know to which Higher Self it belongs.

 

[Ajay0]

From what I have learnt based on Hindu scriptures and recent teachings on reincarnation by Gurus, the soul has no gender.

The majority of human beings upon death, reincarnate in the body of the opposite sex, as it is the opposite sex that is the dominant impression in the unconscious due to the factor of attraction.

If it is the same sex that is the dominant impression in the unconscious, then one reincarnates as that sex again.

 

[SeaAndSky]

From what I have learnt based on Hindu scriptures and recent teachings on reincarnation by Gurus, the soul has no gender.

The majority of human beings upon death, reincarnate in the body of the opposite sex, as it is the opposite sex that is the dominant impression in the unconscious due to the factor of attraction.

If it is the same sex that is the dominant impression in the unconscious, then one reincarnates as that sex again.

Hi Ajay,

I appreciate the words of religion, philosophy and wisdom as they come from the wise. However, I also appreciate science and the application of the scientific method where it can be applied. At this point, as far as I can tell, the evidence gathered by the serious scientific researchers in this field does not validate the statements set forth in the second paragraph above.

Cordially,
S&S

 

[SeaAndSky]

To All:

There is a point that did not come up in prior discussion on this issue, but it has been on my mind for some time: Are cross-gender incarnations something we are (1) "supposed" or even "required" to do, (2) something we are "not supposed" or even might be "punished" for doing, or (3) are they simply and completely "neutral". This question seems to be worth considering and answering. And, all answers may be provisional.

(1) Positive=supposed to do this. On this one, I have often wondered if those dilatory in not doing a "cross-over" for a long enough time don't get "encouraged," "maneuvered" or "manipulated" into doing so. It seems remarkable to me that so many in what appears to be a cross-gender lifetime report a very bad life or death as the opposite sex in the most immediate past life. The nature of the process for deciding on the next lifetime reported varies somewhat, but it appears that in a great many between-lives reports, a limited selection of lifetimes is offered along with counseling. IMO it would be fairly easy to slant such a process in order to convince or coerce those making the choice to choose a lifetime in their preferred gender that would be bad enough to make them want to take a walk on the other side of the street the next time around. (OTOH, maybe it is just because "sampling" is skewed because traumatic lifetimes are more likely to breech the memory barrier and be remembered). Likewise, a person might only have a lifetime offered in their preferred gender that was completely horrible with a selection of much pleasanter cross-gender lifetimes to choose from. The proposition is worth considering in its own right, and also because of other possible consequences. For example, will you be forced to do a do-over if you "bail out"?

This comes up in the context of suicide. There is a lot of disagreement in terms of whether there is a specific punishment for doing this. However, there seems to be something close to unanimity in term of the fact that suicide will not keep you from having to face the dilemma/situation or learn the lesson that was dodged by suicide in a subsequent lifetime. So, in the current era, will those experiencing dysphoria and taking steps to change their external gender to correspond with their internal gender merely find themselves facing the same dilemma at a future point? I.e., does it merely "kick" the matter down the road for another lifetime or even lifetimes until they do the cross-gender lifetime? I should make it clear at this point that I do not oppose recourse to the "gender confirmation" process as a general proposition. Indeed, the alternative for many might be suicide, nor do I wish to discuss or have anyone discuss the rightness/wrongness, rules, decision, etc. or anything else related to the matter other than: possible consequences in terms of having to do a repeat in a future lifetime. Say, for example, that the soul has been an abusive husband with children and needs to experience being in the opposite role. Perhaps they have experienced it as a child with a father who did such things, or in other ways, but still haven't taken the examples given to heart and made a change. Is it possible, for example, that the lesson can only be learned at times by a cross-gender lifetime such that a switch out of that gender is merely going to result in a do-over?

(Cont'd)

 

[SeaAndSky]

(2) Negative=not supposed to do this. This is a fairly easy one, based on "creation" and "probation" type concepts. I.e., if we are in fact created as gendered souls, is it unreasonable to expect that in making our choices between various possible bodies we would stick to the physical sex that "corresponds" to our soul gender? Wouldn't it be disrespectful to our creator to do otherwise? This would be a typical religious argument, and would probably make sense to many members of the Abrahamic faiths. Also, the fact that we are free to do otherwise does not mean that it is not going to be "frowned" upon at a higher level. The same is true of a variety of things we do while incarnate, including the normal list of crimes, vices, etc. As is true with most things, the fact that the opportunity is there doesn't mean that it is not going to be frowned upon if taken. This would turn those who are doing the "offering" into mere purveyors of goods without regard to the consequences or overall "legality" of the transaction, or maybe they just serve as an information system letting us know about various possibilities. This does, however, seem to go against the usual things reported to researchers like, e.g., Michael Newton. OTOH, under the "probation" model (as opposed to the developmental/evolutionary model), it is not their duty to keep us from doing as we like during this phase of things. After all, humanity has a lot of freedom when we're here without guides, guardian angels, etc. intervening every moment (at least as far as I can tell). We are apparently meant to have freedom and options under all three of the possibilities put forth above (1)-(3). It is how we handle these possibilities and the choices we make that determines our ultimate destiny in the "probation" model. And, in a reincarnationist approach to the probation model, judgment/punishment might occur between lifetimes or be put off for additional lifetimes (or both) until ??? I haven't seen a lot of evidence for punishment between lifetimes myself, but I also can't discount it completely. Of course, this model does not eliminate continuing development across the allotted period. It does mean that there could be some form of accounting, final exam or judgment at the end of the allotted period--with potential good or unpleasant consequences to follow.

(3) Neutral. This one is where one goes to "breath a sigh of relief". Hence, most may flock here just to get away from the prior two possibilities and not have to think about things that might be unpleasant to think about. Still, that is up to the individual.

In any case, what are your thoughts?

Cordially,
S&S

 

[John Tat]

What has been lost to the discussion are the differences between the spiritual self/soul and the physical entity

Just one difference ... as physical entities this physical life is what matters to us.... whereas for our spiritual selves/souls its another incarnation of many with many more to come

Very similar to a sporting activity... you win, loose or draw this week but there is always next for you to play again

As a result there is a dig difference between how the physical entity perceives a incarnation and how our spiritual selves/souls do

IMO all the talk about what can be planned ahead for each incarnation of our spiritual selves/souls other than selecting gender is nothing more than speculation

Once incarnated back our spiritual selves/souls are very much restricted on there influence of the physical entity by its inherited skills, abilities and physical make up.... including all of the chemical and hormone levels in the physical body all have great influence on how good, average or bad an incarnation will be

Whatever happens there's always next week for our spiritual selves./souls

 

[SeaAndSky]

What has been lost to the discussion are the differences between the spiritual self/soul and the physical entity

Just one difference ... as physical entities this physical life is what matters to us.... whereas for our spiritual selves/souls its another incarnation of many with many more to come

Very similar to a sporting activity... you win, loose or draw this week but there is always next for you to play again

As a result there is a dig difference between how the physical entity perceives a incarnation and how our spiritual selves/souls do

IMO all the talk about what can be planned ahead for each incarnation of our spiritual selves/souls other than selecting gender is nothing more than speculation

Once incarnated back our spiritual selves/souls are very much restricted on there influence of the physical entity by its inherited skills, abilities and physical make up.... including all of the chemical and hormone levels in the physical body all have great influence on how good, average or bad an incarnation will be

Whatever happens there's always next week for our spiritual selves./souls

Hi John,

With due respect, I think you are wrong on a couple of presuppositions evident in your post. I think this is because you base what you are saying on your own experience and BB, which is not necessarily the same as it is for the rest of us.

So, I think you are incorrect in regard to the following. First, it seems to me that BB remains separate and distinct in a unique way from John Tat. This seems to be what BB planned and executed millennia ago, and a boundary that he continues for the most part (and as far as I can tell) to enforce and observe. Most of the rest of us (IMO) experience ourselves as a blend of our ongoing spiritual selves and our transient physical selves while we are embodied, and tend to think of ourselves that way. Second, according to BB, the system in force at present and governing the reincarnation process is not the same as it was millennia ago. This is the system we are discussing, not the system as it was in BB's era. Actually, it is the present system that you/BB wish to change. So, it might not be the same at some future point. But for the moment, we are discussing the system as it seems to be at the moment.

Cordially,
S&S

 

[Tiness1987]

1. Gender does not exist.
2. You're born with both male and female characteristics.
3. You're born with neither male nor female characteristics.
4. Gender exists but is determined later in life.
5. The soul's gender is determined at birth.
6. People's gender identity may change throughout their life.
7. There is no scientific evidence of gender identity.
8. Gender is defined only by society.
9. Gender is fluid; it changes over time.
10. Gender is subjective.
11. Gender roles can vary widely across cultures.
12. Sex organs are not related to gender identity.
13. A person's gender can shift depending on his/her mood.
14. Changing your gender is possible through surgery.

 

[SeaAndSky]

1. Gender does not exist.
2. You're born with both male and female characteristics.
3. You're born with neither male nor female characteristics.
4. Gender exists but is determined later in life.
5. The soul's gender is determined at birth.
6. People's gender identity may change throughout their life.
7. There is no scientific evidence of gender identity.
8. Gender is defined only by society.
9. Gender is fluid; it changes over time.
10. Gender is subjective.
11. Gender roles can vary widely across cultures.
12. Sex organs are not related to gender identity.
13. A person's gender can shift depending on his/her mood.
14. Changing your gender is possible through surgery.

Hi Tinness,

I am not sure what you intend by posting this list. Some of the statements seem to be truisms, some are contradictory, most seem to be your opinion (which IMO should be designated as such). Also, most appear to pertain to outward gender or bodily gender, whereas the thread is about soul gender (which may or may not always manifest as a sense of inward gender or in other ways). Frankly, at this point I am not sure what you are trying to say or how it relates to the thread topic.

Cordially,
S&S

 

[cloud potato]

My personal view.. which is not to challenge another...

Forms are many. Soul is One.

 

[Jet]

As someone representing the "minority" position on the board, I feel it necessary to insert the fact (for the benefit of newcomers posting) that not all who believe in reincarnation believe the soul/spirit is without gender. This does not, however, seem to be the opinion held by the majority of

I have heard some people say that there is a roughly 90% chance that a person was the same gender in a past life, and that souls can have preferences for which gender they want to live as.

I don't know about everyone else S&S but I think I have remained the same gender.

 

[Cyrus]

I don't know about everyone else S&S but I think I have remained the same gender.

Me, too.

In all 3 PLs that I was able to discover, I was male.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Me, too.

In all 3 PLs that I was able to discover, I was male.

Hi Cyrus,

In reading through PL reports related to cross-gender incarnations, there seemed to very often be a connecting feature: Extreme trauma of some sort connected to the prior lifetime, and especially to the fact that external gender during that lifetime was, at least arguably, connected to that type of death. (I haven't sought to do a statistical study, so no point in asking about that--this is just an observation on my part, and anecdotal at best). Predictably, many of the M to F cross-overs occurred after a violent death during or related to warfare, something that is much more likely being male than female. (Once again, merely an observation on my part, not the product of a statistical study).

Applying this to your particular situation, especially considering the death you suffered in the Italian Navy, I have to think that--at the deepest levels of your being--you are extremely averse to such a change, and/or extremely attached to remaining male. Perhaps you tried it in some PL and found it was very much not to your liking (nor a viable solution to anything from your standpoint). Perhaps it is due to your great friendship for, and interest in being reunited with, your comrades in the navy.

Cordially,
S&S

 

[Ocean]

In reading through PL reports related to cross-gender incarnations, there seemed to very often be a connecting feature: Extreme trauma of some sort connected to the prior lifetime, and especially to the fact that external gender during that lifetime was, at least arguably, connected to that type of death. (I haven't sought to do a statistical study, so no point in asking about that--this is just an observation on my part, and anecdotal at best). Predictably, many of the M to F cross-overs occurred after a violent death during or related to warfare, something that is much more likely being male than female. (Once again, merely an observation on my part, not the product of a statistical study).

Hey S&S!

Is this an observation based on what people reported on this forum here or on something you read elsewhere? Just curious.