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Do you believe in Hell?

Jody

Jody

Senior Registered
I've always believed in reincarnation, but I never believed in the devil/demons/"spiritual evil" until fairly recently (maybe the last 10 of my 40-odd years) because of the hellish turn I feel my country (the US) has taken has opened my eyes to that kind of thing.

I'll admit I love "new-agey" types of books, and most of them are almost exclusively positive -- according to them a soul can be extremely destructive on this planet, but in the end it's all good, we're all just learning lessons, after all. I always figured the worst kind of Hell is the world we make for ourselves. But then I became aware of a bunch of really unfair things going on in the world, at about the same time my personal life was subjected to what I consider profound injustices. I don't really want souls to suffer, but I do believe a certain amount of justice is in order for certain tyrannical beings that walk the planet right now.

I'm interested in others' thoughts about this kind of thing ...
 
I do not believe in Dante's hell or any other iteration of the traditional christian hell/satan/devil milieu. I believe we judge ourselves on the other side far more harshly than any other being. I do believe we manifest our own reality instantly on the other side and in the event we transition thinking we're going to hell, then what meets us will be our imagined hell. Likewise, we can just as easily manifest ourselves out of that hell and into a more positive transitionary state.


Whether this is accurate or not I do not pretend to know...but it is my belief and I fully expect to bypass any and all non-positive transitionary stages and to focus on playing this game to the best of my ability.
 
Hell, IMO, is just a very powerful tool used to control the population and to hook them into religion. Where would the logic be in punishing souls if he don't even know why we are here on earth in the first place? The odds are that we've all done things in our past lives that would earn us a one way ticket to "hell"
 
My answer would have been a resounding ‘no’ but I also am now wondering if it’s as simple as the positive New Age-y stuff in which I too have been well-steeped. :D A possible scenario might be that we really do create our own hells very much like we create nightmares when we are stressed. You know how in nightmares something terrible is chasing you but if you confront it, it turns out to be your mother who’s been worrying you, or a boss who’s been demanding extra work. I could theorize that if we’re very bad - consciously bad - there’s some mechanism whereby we find ourselves ’in hell’, which could be very much worse than a nightmare. I don’t think there’s a special place for it, with special demons or anyone else in charge, nor is it eternal, or anything like that, but that it would arise by some natural means, and we would escape it when, I donno, we 'see the light' or the error of our ways or something.
 
usetawuz said:
I believe we judge ourselves on the other side far more harshly than any other being. I do believe we manifest our own reality instantly on the other side and in the event we transition thinking we're going to hell, then what meets us will be our imagined hell.
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+1, as we say in the gaming world, though I don't believe we judge ourselves harshly so much as honestly. It is my belief that once you're on the other side of the veil, you cannot lie to yourself. Once there, anything from this world that would cloud your judgement is gone. You make a fair accounting of yourself and pass judgement. You are Judge, Jury, Plaintiff, Defendant, Bailiff, Jailor, and Executioner all rolled up into one.
 
I just have to say that I agree with what's been said above. I believe that hell was made up to scare people into seeking redemption in the Church.


I believe on the other side it is about soul development, not soul punishment. When we are in spirit form we know what is best for our development and take the next logical step. Like Kristopher said, we've probably all done things that others would consider worthy of hell.
 
Hell is what we make it. Historically, it has been a control feature of the church—at least in the Western Christian form that has persisted for the last 1500 years—and wasn't taught by Christ. This is not to say that twisted and immoral entities don't exist on the other side, because who really knows? However, the Hell and the devil of Christianity is misleading historical fiction, conjured and expanded upon for the sake of controlling the populations of Europe. Every civilization at one time or another has had its hand in twisting morality to achieve purely earth-bound materialist goals; and I have no doubt that our tendency to repeat our mistakes has caused some souls to devolve into what we might call demons who may meet us briefly on our way to the light.
 
I think the idea of Heaven and Hell work for some "younger" souls like black and white. If you don't have to think about all the different hues of grey inbetween, life becomes a bit easier. (I usually don't like the word "young" to describe a soul! I don't see this as a negative state!) When I was a child, I really BELIEVED in Santa Claus and knew if I did something " bad" , he wouldn't leave anything in my stocking!And quess what?...it worked! As I matured, so did my beliefs. I think on the soul level good and bad don't have the same meaning as they do on a human level. I would rather call it experience. Ofcourse, if someone were to hurt a loved one of mine now,I would wish for all hell fire to break loose...I could easily kill someone myself! I feel this is a very human response...but on a spiritual level, I do not believe in Hell. Most religions that use the idea of Hell use the fear that goes with it to make people act the way the church (religion) wants them to act.
 
Has anyone ever heard mention of Hell as a final destination for the Priests that hurt the Altar Boys? There were cases here but I never heard it brought up.
 
Something to throw in the mix...Hell and Satan to most people implies "bad or evil. " However Satan is a Hebrew word. It is spelled in Hebrew, seen-tayt-noon. In colloquial Hebrew it means the adversary or accuser as well as its English meaning.


Each of its three letters is also a "word." They each in turn have meaning.


According to the Qabala, seen represents a movement -- a universal or cosmic motion-one that underlies the movement of all things in the universe. It is pictured by Qabalists as the "breath of God" returning from the material plane back to the infinity of God.


Tayt represents a primitive cellular structure. It could be a living cell, a memory "engram," a neural circuit, or any other analogy representing a basic structure exhibiting the cell-like behavior we understand. It is a feminine concept that tends to enclose energy repeating itself, as a bird builds a nest for egg laying. It is a self-referring concept, one that continues to build itself in its own image.


Finally, noon stands for a high principle operating within the cosmos. This is the principle of cosmic indeterminism.


In the book The Eagle's Quest the following is suggested ---

Imagine if Satan represents the cells of our living selves held between the freeing movement of God's breath and the fearful possibility that anything can happen to it. As a result the cell tends to persist in living fear of life-death.
Fred Allan Wolf points out that the vision of a bursting cell and the laser light beam entering it is a quite accurate description of the "action of the cosmic Satan."


It literally disrupts the stasis of the cell, producing doubt and uncertainty. But this was not necessarily,' to be feared or prevented. Without the process of Satan entering the cell, no learning takes place. Nothing new can happen. We would be doomed to repeat all that we do.
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Puts an interesting twist on Hell with Satan as ruler. Hummmm repeat all that we do. I think that is what a lot of humanity does. ;)
 
I do not believe in the hell that the bible portrays. Like most that have posted on this thread I believe that 'eternal' hell is a ploy by the religionists to control the masses. Maybe there is a type of hell on the other side for people who do very bad things eq. Hitler, Sadam, Bin Laden, Manson etc. You mostly hear of people that have an NDE that see friends and relatives, in happy situations, on the other side. I've also heard of the NDE being one of horror that seemed to change their lives when they return. Seems only right that the truly evil people should experience punishment after they pass on. Maybe for extended periods of time depending on the severity of their 'crimes'. Or MAYBE transmigration???:eek:
 
Deborah... very interesting! It makes sense.


I strongly contend that what we know is only a tiny fragment of the smallest fragment of what we can know and comprehend. I do not buy the simplistic version of heaven and hell as "places" with an address. Now that definitely contradicts my upbringing, but as we progress through life and we see the unraveling mystery, it for me is very obvious that they were indeed tools of coercion. In a discussion this morning I made the point that there is an opposite to everything (I think!)... the yin and yang. love-hate, good-bad, black-white, up-down etc... it makes perfect sense that in the cosmic script, and in the faint evidence we see and comprehend, there is some form of purpose and rationale behind it. Are these opposites some form of perpetual motion or energy that drives creation? Given that thought then evil, hell, and satan are all a part of the "engine" of life as we know it... right? If so, then wouldn't hell be a tangible presence somewhere? Could it be the cognizant awareness of the negative force? We all know evil and its horrid effect on creation and mankind. It wilts the beauty and true nature of our positive forces. Could these be sort of a living hell for some?


An interesting thread.


Tman
 
I don't believe in a literal "Hell" as portrayed by most major world religions. From the point of view of someone who believes the Universe is capable of producing all things, perhaps Heaven and Hell are simply the Yin and Yang of the Universe? That possibly they are connected at one point and all negative energy comes from "Hell" and all positive energy comes from "Heaven", and they sort of fuse together to create the energy that is our souls.


I tend to think of these forces as a battery in an electrical circuit or the sides of a magnet. There has to be a negative and a positive side in order to function. Two negatives or two positives won't work. And, if you take a bar magnet and "chop off" the negative side, you cannot get rid of the negative side. You only made the magnet shorter. The negative side is still there.


I figure trying to destroy one such force would be destroying one entire half of the Universe, and would either be impossible, or would have serious consequences in doing so.


In that sense, considering the need to have one and the other, is this why we are imperfect beings? Is perfection actually everything we perceive to be imperfect; perfection equals chaos?


Is it because we're created out of chaotic material? If chaos is perfection, does that mean we are already perfect? It makes sense to me to say that chaos is perfection considering the very essence of the Universe is chaos or unpredictability.


I'm getting ahead of myself and going into chaos theory. But that's my basic point without me writing a 900 page book about it. Which, if given the means, I could probably do.


Onward men....


Another good example I believe of the negative vs. positive would be the magnetic poles of the Earth. The Earth is literally one giant magnet. If the charge of the North Pole was not the opposite of the South Pole, it would render compasses ineffective. Therefore we would be completely and utterly lost. We wouldn't know which way is North, which way is South. It just, wouldn't work.


Then, there would be no magnetic field around the Earth to protect us from UV rays, gamma rays, solar radiation, etcetera. We'd all burn to a crisp.


This negative energy/magnetic pole is necessary for life to exist. Without it, life could not be sustained on this planet.


Is it possible that negativity in the "evil" or "bad" sense, is the same way?
 
With the deepest respect for the various religions of the world and the people who are part of these religions, I respectfully offer my individual opinion as a person and NOT as a moderator.


I feel that the concept of hell that certain religions use to control their members into submission and to guarantee their participation and allegiance is actually the “Soul Searching” that one encounters when they first pass over to the Other Side.


When a disembodied Soul first passes over, from reports from persons who have reportedly returned, for various reasons, they supposedly encounter, for want of a better description, a “focus” of energy composed of light, possessing an intelligence.


This “intelligence” interacts with the recently passed over, and guides them to examine their life events, their low and high points, their successes, and their failures and assists them in learning from this dialogue between them.


So to answer the original question, yes I believe there is a hell; and no I don’t, now this may sound like a contradiction, but it’s not.


Yes, the hell can be within us by our remorse over the way we treated others, and no, I don’t believe it’s actually a place per se, but again, our reaction brought about by our actions toward others.


My feeble interpretation sounds confusing, but this is my attempt at explaining the concept of hell, as I believe it, and my opinion in no way reflects the official opinion of this Forum.
 
No, I certainly don't believe in 'hell' (or heaven) as they are depicted in Christianity. It's all just part of the Christian 'protection racket' in my view.


There are elements of these things in various different traditions, so perhaps they reflect some kind of psychological need or potentially some kind of spiritual reality. But I don't think that if you're naughty and break 'the rules' you are punished. It just doesn't work that way.


I also don't think the Hindu idea of 'karma' - some kind of spiritual snakes and ladders game where you move up and down the caste system depending on how virtuous you are - works as literally as they make out either. Again, I think this is really a form of social control rather than any reflection of what really goes on.
 
Well, people have already said it all, and probably much better then I could! All I can add is that I, too, do NOT believe in 'Hell'. I believe we ALL go back to Heaven (or The Light), and that those who choose to do bad & evil things repeatedly here on Earth will reincarnate back again and live a living 'hell' of their own making. Basically 'what goes around comes around'.
 
I believe in Hell.. But not that hell that most religions portray. I think its a different kind of hell. One more personal. But that's my opinion.
 
Thank you all for your thought-provoking responses. I would, however, respectfully point out that Jesus did speak about people being cast into an "outer darkness" where there would be "weeping and gnashing of teeth," He did cast out devils (remember the crazy guy that lived in a cave, and the demons, who recognized Jesus, asked to be cast into a herd of swine?), and He did speak of a place where the fire shall never be quenched: "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: " [Mark 9:43]


There's the story of Lazarus the beggar and the rich man at whose gate he laid in Luke 16: "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."


Then there's the last line of Matthew 25: "And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life."
 
I agree with usetawas. Hell exists, but only in a manner of speaking. It is fear. As such, it is our own creation, and can be overcome.
 
I believe in a 'hell' ... but not necessarily the place that is generally thought of in a religious viewpoint. To me it is more of a being in darkness, on the fringe, not being able to 'participate' in life, the afterlife after showing during 'x' amount of lifetimes that they are who they are (evil); sort like being in a 'time out'.


For me, I cannot wrap my mind around detestably evil people just popping back in to the human (or even spiritual) realm after committing horrendous deeds (rape, torture, etc) and having no remorse whatsoever (for me, feeling 'bad' after death doesn't seem (again, to me) sufficient). I tend to see the timeless soul as being the same regardless of the body it inhabits - yes, different circumstances lead people to do things they wouldn't if they were in another situation, however I think the essence of the person is what drives them. If you have (in my opinion) someone who is evil to his/her core, I think that carries through (sort of like how one person can be in a similar situation and one turns to a life that is evil and another in almost the same scenario remains as 'good' as they can be, choosing to not mass exterminate people, rape little children, etc).


I know, to some my view sounds idiotic (I've been told that before), but regardless, it's what makes the most sense to me. I just cannot fathom the Hitlers, the child rapists, etc. of the world just 'self-reflecting' and moving on. I truly believe some souls are bad, and no amount of lifetimes or self-reflection after death will change their 'essence'. In my thinking, there is a place for those souls. Not a burning eternally with a little red guy with a pitchfork - but as I said, being separated from the rest of existence.
 
That's probably the closest to my own view, KnickKnack. I used to think that all souls actually had good intentions and if they could only see the error of their ways they would want to grow spiritually, accept their karma and learn their lesson. These days I'm starting to wonder if that's actually true. Maybe there are "souls are bad, and no amount of lifetimes or self-reflection after death will change their 'essence.'" In which case, I think we've had enough of their crap ... I'd much rather live in a universe without their kind, thank you very much.


BTW, here's my favorite anecdote about the difference between Heaven and Hell: http://nhne-pulse.org/story-the-difference-between-heaven-hell/
 
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KnickKnack said:
In my thinking, there is a place for those souls. Not a burning eternally with a little red guy with a pitchfork - but as I said, being separated from the rest of existence.
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I wonder, since this is a possibility, if perhaps these souls have one of two things happen to them:


A) They continously reincarnate somewhere where really, really bad things happen to them (Earth or otherwise)


or


B) If perhaps their souls simply do not reincarnate at all and are returned to their original form as energy, with the ability to make decisions taken away.


Or, and this is just in theory. Knowing that in a black hole, matter and energy passes outside of our time-space continuum; perhaps the possibility remains that the "evil" or "negative" souls pass through a black hole elsewhere. Considering the small amount that we really know about the Universe, would it be plausible to say that while passing through the black hole the soul becomes stripped of any decision making and has it's mind taken away? If you can strip intelligence from people, could the same not be said for souls?


We, as terrestrial beings, may never know.
 
A) They continously reincarnate somewhere where really, really bad things happen to them (Earth or otherwise)
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This where the forgetfulness of reincarnation makes no sense to me. What do you learn if you're punished for something that you have no recollection of doing?
 
Perhaps they never forget and are forced to feel/understand the pain of their past victims? I know from experience that simply remembering constitutes quite painful punishment. As far as the "not feeling remorse", I think in necessary cases, the Universe could make them. I believe there's always a way to get through to people/souls like that, just not on a physical plane. What exactly that is however, is for the Universe to know and those entities to find out.
 
I don't, because by all technicalities I would be there now based off of past actions in my pl's. Also, I am not being severely punished either in this life for those actions either, so that kind of throws some of those ideas out the window of punishment and hell.
 
When I first started recalling my multiple NDE's - I had to look up the root word for "hell" because I could never relate to the various definitions fundamental minds had expressed to me over the years.

Hell derived from the Saxon helan, to cover; hence the covered or the invisible place. In Scripture there are three words so rendered:
  • (1.) Sheol, occurring in the Old Testament sixty-five times. This word sheol is derived from a root-word meaning "to ask," "demand;" hence insatiableness. It is rendered "grave" thirty-one times. The Revisers have retained this rendering in the historical books with the original word in the margin, while in the poetical books they have reversed this rule. In thirty-one cases in the Authorized Version this word is rendered "hell," the place of disembodied spirits. The inhabitants of sheol are "the congregation of the dead". It is (a) the abode of the wicked; (b) of the good.

    Sheol is described as deep, dark, with bars. The dead "go down" to it.
  • (2.) The Greek word hades of the New Testament has the same scope of signification as sheol of the Old Testament. It is a prison, with gates and bars and locks, and it is downward.

    The righteous and the wicked are separated. The blessed dead are in that part of hades called paradise (Luke 23:43). They are also said to be in Abraham's bosom (Luke 16:22).
  • (3.) Gehenna, in most of its occurrences in the Greek New Testament, designates the place of the lost. The fearful nature of their condition there is described in various figurative expressions. (See HINNOM)


Source: Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary
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Many near-death accounts involve a description of traveling through a realm that is commonly known in NDE circles as - the void. Together with the earthbound realm, the void is known by many religious traditions as hell, purgatory, or outer darkness to name a few. Source: NDE and the Viod
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The "invisible" place that has two realms to it. One of darkness and one of light. Those in the 'dark' seem to be lost from the light - but not 'forever more' as the world suggests. The word "eternal" means 'without time.' There is no 'time' on the other side - but - there are sequences of events as well as motion - but not within the framework of time as we experience it here in the physical sense. So there was motion in an eternal sense and you could move through the 'dark' into the light. We exists in the same sort of 'void' or darkness here in the physical. So it doesn't only exist in the 'invisible realm' beyond. It exists in the here and now as well.


I wrote a blog post about my experiences with the 'dark void' from my NDE's.


DKing
 
I think that hell is separation from God, which is a choice, as God does not force his love on us imo. I feel that eternal separation from God would be hell, but hell is not a place of fire and brimstone, but more of a condition which we can bring upon ourselves through selfish acts, consequently inflicting harm on others and nature.
 
Nightrain said:
Hell is what we make it. Historically, it has been a control feature of the church—at least in the Western Christian form that has persisted for the last 1500 years—and wasn't taught by Christ. This is not to say that twisted and immoral entities don't exist on the other side, because who really knows? However, the Hell and the devil of Christianity is misleading historical fiction, conjured and expanded upon for the sake of controlling the populations of Europe. Every civilization at one time or another has had its hand in twisting morality to achieve purely earth-bound materialist goals; and I have no doubt that our tendency to repeat our mistakes has caused some souls to devolve into what we might call demons who may meet us briefly on our way to the light.
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What started me along my journey to come to the same conclusion, was in my early 20s I would question, ok so Christians dont go to hell but everyone else does. So if you follow that line of thinking, then what about the poor child in India who is raised Hindu? He/She does not have much choice as their parents teach and lead them into their chosen religion. What if they live a moral life...do they still go to hell because they dont believe in Jesus?


I just tried to use logic over the years and I have come to completely reject most religious dogma. I agree with Nightrain that religion has used fear to control the masses. In addition, is our omnipotent all-powerful God vengeful and uses this once briefest of brief existence to judge us eternally? It makes absolutely no sense.


Its fear, our greatest foe. :angel:
 
horsedoc said:
ok so Christians dont go to hell but everyone else does. So if you follow that line of thinking, then what about the poor child in India who is raised Hindu? He/She does not have much choice as their parents teach and lead them into their chosen religion. What if they live a moral life...do they still go to hell because they dont believe in Jesus?
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In high school I was the presbyterian youth fellowship president until I was shouted down because the majority of the crowd was certain the methodists across the street were going to hell because they didn't believe in the same Jesus we did. My comment that "What if those methodists think the same about us?" was met with "well they're wrong!"


Some battles are simply better not fought.
 
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