fallen angels ?

Discussion in 'Reincarnation, Religion and Spirituality' started by cloud potato, Jan 13, 2015.

  1. cloud potato

    cloud potato Senior Registered

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    do you believe in angels ? what about having a past life as an angel now living life as a human for having, "fallen"

    this is kind of a loaded question and i'm not sure if it's okay to discuss on the forum... but take your understanding of angel be it self taught or learned from religious scripture like that of the bible
    . what do you think ?

    i think we've all fallen from grace... and for fun, i wonder just how far some of us have fallen
     
  2. AOSpare

    AOSpare Zos Kia Cultus

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    My understanding of this matter is rather esoteric. The "fallen" word depicts Lucifer who fell into our material existence by descending from higher realms, into matter. Most major religions acknowledge 7 celestial beings (Christians call them archangels) who partook in creation and were assigned to oversee matters of Humanity. Other names of these are Dhyan-Chohan (planetary spirit), Islam also accepts these but has different names for them...

     
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  3. cloud potato

    cloud potato Senior Registered

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    hi AOSpare, do you think there are others beside Lucifer whom also fell and are now living life as every day joes ?
     
  4. AOSpare

    AOSpare Zos Kia Cultus

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    I don't think so but anything is possible. Archangels were not a numerous group but underneath there were their minions. Higher you are more impact you make when you fall. I do not concern myself with the little guys too much.

     
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  5. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    In a way we are all 'fallen angels' in that we have a life in 'heaven' in the 'between lives' state, but then we come back to Earth from time to time to have a human life in the physical plane. I don't know if there is any such thing as a state of 'grace' or if we can 'fall' out of it. I know the Buddhists talk about reaching 'enlightenment' or 'nirvana' when they are supposed to perceive things as they really are, but it is a difficult state to attain and to keep while we are living a physical life, even for those who have all the skills and the desire to do it.


    Personally, I think a lot of the mythology around 'angels' is based on a vague understanding of this 'between life'


    state and possibly interpretations of 'spirit guides' that people perceive from time to time, but perhaps don't quite understand what they are. Maybe 'angels' do literally exist, but I am personally a bit doubtful.


    What prompts you to ask about this cloudpotato? Have you had a memory or dream about an experience?
     
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  6. shadowsofmypast

    shadowsofmypast Senior Registered

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    I believe I am fallen angel you can believe or not


    I know in my heart what felt for so long


    not belonging etc.


    My theory is that not all fallen angels fell


    Some did leave on there own terms and walked


    away from it all .


    Finding Earth, no better place some drifted


    life to life. My friend is one too we share same


    conflicts within and our view of the world.


    Some did find a place for time in lost cities


    Atlantis, Lemu and other lost cities.


    People like myself feel we really don't have place


    here. Often depressed by how imposing the world


    can be all mans laws that benefit no one but


    the maker of said laws.


    And how we all have to be something or doing to be apart


    of society that often see conformed and constrained.


    By everyday obligations forced on us since birth.
     
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  7. cloud potato

    cloud potato Senior Registered

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    @tanguerra, nothing in particular. i've had two dreams that had me believe i was a fallen angel... but, i'm not sure that matters now. (?)


    @shadowsofmypast,


    i understand how you feel. it is often difficult for me to see where i fit amongst the fast paced environment in which i live. it can be stressful for many reasons.


    but earth is our home for the time being, and our perception of this world can make it a living hell- or a wonderful place full of opportunity and excitement. it can be hard but it all starts with little feelings within... feelings that make us smile and appreciate the vibration we currently reside. this is a key to understanding yourself, the things you appreciate in life, and is a tool to help you uncover the beauty that is hidden in plain sight.


    don't focus on the law makers and reside in woe is me... focus on yourself. make wherever you are home. if you chose to walk away from it all, you've done so for a reason. it's time to build yourself back up again.


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    ^my current perspective on things lol. but i know that, as i do these things(a job i'm not so good at, paying bills, etc) that somehow it's making me a stronger person...
     
  8. Demi

    Demi Senior Registered

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    God created everything.. right? So God created the Devil, too.


    Now people say, the Devil has fallen and is out of control... Who is out of control? Isn't God the boss?


    A company has a boss, and he's in control... in the same way God must be boss... In the military, the commander gives the order, and the soldier shoots...this way, responsibility is on neither.


    So God created the Devil as the bad cop, but Devil is in fact a henchman of God... God gives the orders... the Devil does them and we BELIEVE that there is a DUALITY between those two...


    And we use up our lives on being anxious and guilty because we want to be on the GOOD side...


    but in reality there is no side...


    There is only one, and all is manifestation of one...


    And we need not be afraid, because death cannot kill our soul


    And we need not to feel guilty, because God is the one doing everything that ever happens.


    We aren't fallen...


    Because there is nowhere to FALL


    Amen
     
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  9. Alita Jeanes

    Alita Jeanes New Member

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    Growing up, I have always believed in angels. Not necessarily the fallen ones but angels as our guide and guardians. As an adult, there are still times that I would speak through my mind with my guardian angel especially when I am in trouble or doubt.
     
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  10. TheCuriousOne

    TheCuriousOne Always Searching...

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    Hi, I don't know if this is related to your question, but here is a video of a seven year old who remembers being an angel. Sorry if this video has already been posted.

     
  11. rjmarzano

    rjmarzano rjmarzano

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    I had some demons talking to me back in 2011. This was a very strange and frightening experience and the details are probably far beyond the guidelines of this forum for several reasons.

    It does tie in with reincarnation though I think. One of these demons said his name is Asmodeus. This is interesting for me because Asmodeus in the antagonist in the Book Of Tobit which appears in the Catholic version of the bible.

    In the story as I recall 7 guys wanted to marry this girl named Sarah but Asmodeus killed all 7 of them for some reason. Finally the angel Rafael got involved and Tobit did marry Sarah.

    I would not be surprised to find out that I was Tobit in a past life and I have been interacting with these demons for many thousands of years going back to Atlantis and God knows where else. My reasons for saying this are more than just speculation although I can't be sure what I said is true. It is possible though.

    The demons said it is rare that they speak to someone in such a calm and direct way.

    There are always reasons when someone is interacting with the demons. What those reasons are will determine the consequences of their potentially deadly presence.

    I got the impression also that one of those demons was the mythological Prometheus who returned to our modern world as Anton Lavey, the founder of the Church Of Satan and author of The Satanic Bible. Indeed if someone who is not a demon attempted to write a Satanic Bible they would be dead long before page 1 was ever written down.
     
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  12. Darius

    Darius Георгий-Алексе́й Романов

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    Hmm. Intriguing post. There are Humans. Angels. Nephilim. And other beings amongst us. We are not all Human.
     
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  13. classics

    classics Classics

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    What about devils?

    Napoleon Bonaparte was once called the 666 Beast by Pope Pius VI in 1798. Napoleon died on the island of St. Helena in 1821. According to urban legends, Napoleon Bonaparte was reincarnated in the year 1910.

    I am a part time author and I am always looking for interesting topics to write on. Presently, I am writing a young adult novel about summer camp. I came across an interesting story many years ago and wrote a novel about the story. The story is a series of urban legends. You may have heard about it. The legend is how stories of people who went crazy and believed they were famous people from a past life started. They were not reincarnated but “insane”.

    The people were locked in insane asylums because they believed they were people who actually existed, in the past, but now were here. You may have heard stories of people who went insane and believed they were Abraham Lincoln, Julius Caesar, George Washington, etc. The urban legend is these people never existed; the stories were created by the United States Government to hide one man. This man is believed to have actually been reincarnated into a living body. If the urban legends are true, it is the most “undocumented” case of reincarnation in history and this one man actually affected history. He was kept locked in an insane asylum, surrounded by armed American soldiers, and is alleged to be buried in the Arlington National Cemetery under a false name.

    If you are interested in the novel, here is a link: https://www.amazon.com/am-Napoleone...keywords=I+am+Napoleone+Bounaparte#nav-subnav
     
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  14. cloud potato

    cloud potato Senior Registered

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    Gosh I hadn't realized how many replies this thread received. I just spent some time reading the first 4 or 5 again... I will need more time to read this.... I may be one of the little people AOSpare is referring to. I don't know why, but I am continually drawn to the concept of fallen angels and an actively guiding Spirit. At this time I am once again reminded of my dreams from the past in correspondence with personal events and am finding a connection on a deeper level to this idea. I think I may have done something as simple as taking a wrong side in a rebellion. Life as a angel, whatever that is supposed to mean, makes me think of psychic abilities as a human. I keep getting flashes of my imprisonment for having done some type of wrong. I don't know whether I actually did wrong or, whether an outside force has captured me and punished me for committing a wrong in their eyes. The first dream I had was an out of body experience where I noticed myself in the reflection of a mirror. I had wings that were black and molting. I don't think angels actually have wings... I am speaking from the dream world now, where symbols speak louder than words. In the second dream I was by a beach and captured by people who shackled and impaled me. I was put underground and as the last bit of light from above ground peeked through a sliding top- the image of an angel in blood was splattered against the wall. There are events in this waking life that make me question how I have access to this type of communication. This forum is one of the few places I can share these ideas and get a sympathetic response. Whether anyone has a history of fallen angels or what makes them, "fallen" to begin with. It is curious... And... If we've lived so many lives- why are some moments more prominent than others...? And... Why are we surrounded by people we feel we have a past life connection to...? Could all this be purely psychological... ?
     
  15. cloud potato

    cloud potato Senior Registered

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    I can't view the video.
     
  16. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Cloud,

    There seem to be two main narratives in play. The first is that angels and humans are two different "species" or distinctive types of beings, and that some angels rebelled and tricked or tempted humans into joining the rebellion (the whole garden of Eden thing). This is the typical Christian viewpoint. The second is that there were only angelic beings, and that we are some of those who fell away, rebelled with the rest or were trapped and tricked into rebellion after others (the leaders of the rebellion) had rebelled. The second seems to be what Origen, the Cathars, and some others believed.

    I think Origen's idea (which was, I think, based on pre-existing Neo-Platonic ideas) was that there was the one God, and we were all little "sparks" or something similar created (or emanated) by God. For some reason there was a falling away from the pure bliss and contemplation of God (who was all Goodness and Joy). Some fell farther than others. So, some fell to the level of Archangels, some to the level of angels, some fell to the level of earthly life (= us), and finally some fell to the level of demons, etc. The last category tries to keep us down and resist our further development back towards what we lost. The higher categories do the opposite.

    The Cathars had beliefs that seemed to weave the two narratives together, in that Satanael, the demiurge, etc. (i.e, one of the heavenly host or in some versions, one of the Sons of God), wanted to have a kingdom of his own, and more or less took over or constructed the material world along with his followers (the lesser demons, etc.), and tricked or trapped other angels into the realm he had created (as human beings or even animals) in order to have subjects to rule over or something of the type.

    Anyhow, there seem to be lots of variations on this theme. Those given above are, I think, just a few of the many.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  17. Cyrus

    Cyrus Senior Registered

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    Hi, everybody !

    Mauro Biglino (a former Vatican official translator from ancient languages) says Angels were just messengers of the Elohim, and cherubins were kind of their robots. They served for communication with the humans. There was little really "angelical" in the angels; contrariwise, they were rather unpleasant and conflictive individuals. The people used to say, e.g., "Yesterday I met an Angel on my way home, but stayed alive". Those angels were rather sexually aggressive towards human women, and they got easily excited by the volatile substances (pheromones ?) that emanated from the women's hair, and, when excited, capable of violating a woman right where they met her. That's why some nations since the Biblical times make their women cover their heads, in order to prevent the substances that excited the angels from propagating in the air.

    Being messengers of the Elohim, the Angels were of the same species as them.

    The Nephilim (or the Giants) were another alien race. Curiously, in one of the ancient languages Nephila was the name for the Constellation of Orion. The ending "-im" stands for plural in ancient Hebrew. So, the word Elohim (which is always translated in the Bible in singular as "God") in the Hebrew original, is, in fact, a noun in plural. Gods? Aliens?

    IMHO.

    "The alien God of the Bible"


    "The Bible does not speak of God":
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
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  18. Polaris8

    Polaris8 Senior Registered

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    Cloud,

    Well this is just my opinion on this subject. We have not fallen really! We are in spiritual training or school here in reality. We forget that the physical dimension is a spiritual dimension just like all the other ones. The only difference is here matter is more dominate and more on the negative end of the spectrum than spirit because we are at the bottom of creation in terms of the spiritual dimensions. The vibration here is very dense, harsh and slow here. This is also where the nature of duality is at its extremes. However it does not mean we can't experience joy, love, pleasurer, happiness. and enjoying manifesting physical reality here. Plus being in a physical body is a very different experience than in the higher dimensions. Which is why the whole purpose of the 3rd dimension is so the soul may know itself my it's own experience.

    For it is here where most of our growing and evolution as soul takes place. Which is why most of us keep coming back here because the experiences that are offered here cannot be had or experienced any where else. As for Angles I have come to understand that angles are the next evolutionarily step above mankind. As many angles have once been human like us long ago. However having completed being in the human kingdom and cycled off the wheel of reincarnation at least on the physical level they have now taken up permanent residence in the higher astral or mental planes of being. There they take on many different types of roles and functions to perform in keeping the lower worlds of duality working smoothly. Some do take a personal interest in human affairs knowing how hard it was for them being human once and being in the physical dimension. So they will take on various tasks in protecting those still incarnated here. However many aid souls that are in the transition of crossing over back into spirit when death takes place. As not all souls handle crossing over very well. Many have too many emotional and mental attachments that hinder them in crossing over properly. Some get stuck between the physical and astral worlds. And this is were they come in to help. However the soul needing the help has to want it. Otherwise Angles can do anything because they must respect the nature of free will of the soul. But that's another topic down the road.

    Later.

    P.
     
  19. There and back again

    There and back again Senior Member

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    Pretty much a little of everything that has or is living at some point or another has ended up in human form for every reason one can think of and it doesn't even take that much to get stuck here. I feel your pain of being here in this place and you are not alone in that suffering as there are others. I hope that you get to move on to better pastures.
     
  20. cloud potato

    cloud potato Senior Registered

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    Thank you all for such interesting replies. I wonder how the peacock angel connects in with this. I definitely believe in alien life and sometimes wonder why our universe is kept in confusion about it- or whether or not there are politics in more advanced civilizations and if some federation has placed our galaxy under a type of quarantine. :p ...Something prompted me to find this thread. A dream I met Satan for the first time and he presented himself to me as an alien teenager abusing "psychic powers."
     
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  21. Polaris8

    Polaris8 Senior Registered

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    Cloud, interesting you bought that up. Yes Alien life is everywhere through out the cosmos at different stages of evolution. Many advanced civilizations have come and gone long before man walk this earth. However I believe that most advanced civilizations that are around now keep quiet of their existence of where they are simply because there are other races of beings that are advance as far as being able to travel the stars but are not so benevolent in nature. Which is why letting our whereabouts be known is not really a good thing in the bigger scheme of things. Since we are the new kids on the block in terms of intelligent species we still don't know much about the cosmos yet and are still learning where we fit in the grand scheme of the cosmos.

    However trust me we are not the center of the universe by far. Unique yes in that how we evolved around a G type star yes! As G type stars are not common in the universe. Red dwarfs which are a M class are far more common in the cosmos. However Orange dwarfs which are a K type are far better at having planets around them that can have life evolve simply because they last far longer then our own sun by 20 to 70 billion years. Where as our sun will only live around 10 billion years. This allows life around K type stars to have longer time for life to evolve and for intelligent life to last far longer with civilizations much older than ours. But once mankind finally learns we are not alone in the universe anymore the innocents and childhood of mankind is over with.

    Thanks for the post.

    P.
     
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  22. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Cloud,

    That is definitely one of the strangest dreams about Satan I have heard. ;)

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
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  23. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Polaris,

    Very interesting discussion regarding ET life. I had not heard that about Orange Dwarfs, and was only familiar with all the problems associated with Red Dwarfs, so you have definitely pointed me in some interesting directions. (I'm not really an astronomy buff, just an old Sci Fi fan who occasionally gets a chance to read a new book or re-read one of my old favorites).

    Anyhow, you reminded me of two suggested answers I have heard for why we haven't heard/seen "them" yet. The first is technical, the second is sinister. On the first I heard someone compare our situation and our current technology to that of tribesmen living in an isolated area and communicating by drum. In this scenario the tribesmen conclude that there is no one else "out there" because they have not heard their drum beats. In the meantime, there are communication satellites orbiting overhead and an international traffic and network based on EM waves going on over, around and through them. I.e., they cannot detect their neighbors because their technology is too primitive. Likewise, we may not know we have neighbors because we are listening for communications using means they left behind millennia ago.

    The second reason we might not hear anyone communicating using our version of "drums" is that they are eliminated as soon as they are detected by more advanced species. Like I said, this explanation is a good deal more sinister. If true, we may be in trouble, as our EM transmissions have been broadcasted long enough to have reached quite a ways out. Maybe 100 light years? (if their detection equipment is sensitive enough). But, that is a purely "secular" thought. Hopefully, the almighty or his higher servants would not allow that. So, to me, the first explanation is the more likely. Anyone coming to see us in response to our "drum beats" would, also hopefully, be benign and would only be interested in our betterment and spiritual advance. Of course, many of the settlers of the Americas ostensibly felt the same way, which is also an ominous observation.

    All mere speculation, of course.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
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  24. cloud potato

    cloud potato Senior Registered

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    Another point I'd like to bring up is that of Dr. Steven Greer who says that communication with ET's is possible and the means of communication is in understanding a unified consciousness. I don't follow Greer but I was fascinated by his suggestion. Advanced life might have a further understanding of consciousness and therefore technologies that operate from this "field." The only thing I can think to compare it to, for now, is that we ourselves experience lucid dreaming, synchronicity, out of body experience's and near death experience's. The miracles with reincarnation also coalesce with the science of consciousness. Our material pursuits may one day integrate a physical and spiritual technology and by then we may have already been introduced to, "alien life" who communicate through dimensions. Certainly, I've received inspiration from my meditation's and have experienced guidance from unseen realms. It isn't wrong to think that alien life could be associated with what human minds have thus far ascribed as angelic beings. It isn't wrong to think they're two separate entities either. In a way it ties into my curiosity towards fallen angels. These ideas have been suggested to us slowly by various media outlets. I remember Swami Vidyadhishananda spoke nonchalantly once describing his time in the Himalayas, where monks could communicate with inter-dimensional beings.
    ~CP
     
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  25. Polaris8

    Polaris8 Senior Registered

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    S&S, I am a astronomy buff in the this life. If I choose to come back into the physical plane again (hopefully earth will be more grown up by then.) I would choose to be in the field of astronomy or exoplanetology, or exoplanetary science. You can look up orange dwarfs on google for more detail. Red dwarfs get more attention simply because they are more common stars in the cosmos. Any hoo!!! your explanation of why we have not heard anyone yet is somewhat true. We are using technology that is simply just out of date still. Since our species on this planet is still not even a type 1 civilization yet. We are a type 0 still using fossil fuels for the most part. However we might reach type 1 within another 100 years. Until then anyone coming to see us in response to our drum beats would only be to view and investigate from afar. Leaving us alone to evolve some more.

    • A Type I civilization, also called a planetary civilization—can use and store all of the energy available on its planet.
    • A Type II civilization, also called a stellar civilization—can use and control energy at the scale of its planetary system.
    • A Type III civilization, also called a galactic civilization—can control energy at the scale of its entire host galaxy.
    So most of these other species are a type II and above. Therefor we are just not interesting enough to bother with investigating who we are as we have nothing to offer them that they don't already have.

    Also interesting side note every species on every star systems including our own has its own cycles of reincarnation. Most souls that are here today have been reincarnating on this planet for tens of thousands of years perhaps longer. However as we unfold and grow in planetary consciousness souls from other star systems might incarnate here or on different planets to gain more experience. (this is very, very rare because of the drastic change in energy forms both on the physical, astral and mental plane of being. Many do come to visit while out of the body which is very common on the lower astral plane. However many can't stay long due to the differences in vibrational change in consciousness and energy. Especially if the entity is from a lower frequency star system. Example's. Says a entity living on a super earth where the gravity is much heaver that is around a red dwarf star where the light is much lower and dim would find our world far to bright and lighter in gravity to handle. Even on the physical level. So there stay here even if they were visiting during a OBE (which many do) Can't stay long. The vibration here for them is far to high. Same goes for souls visiting here from other star systems that are far more advance then we are. Our world would be too dense and heavy to visit for any length of time for them. So it's all a matter of perspective, and state of consciousness as soul.

    Thanks for your post and interesting view point on the subject.

    Love and peace.

    P.
     
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  26. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Polaris,

    Your ambitions are very close to my own. I really wanted to be involved in the space program and space exploration growing up. I ended up majoring in Physics, and still feel like I may have made a wrong turning by going to law school instead of going all the way, but that is all long ago at this point. (Like many, all I can say is that it seemed like a good idea at the time o_O). Anyhow, I still wonder if I would choose something similar next time. I have a better idea of how to do it and do it better now, so that would be an advantage, but there is another part of me that would really like to be more involved in the arts, and still another that wonders why I am not doing something more directed at helping my fellow man. So, a lot of pull from that direction as well, especially when I consider the work of people like Dr. Weiss.

    In any case, given the similarities, there is always a chance that our paths will cross somewhere, somewhen.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  27. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Cloud,

    I noted your comment that "Our material pursuits may one day integrate a physical and spiritual technology". I agree. I think that may be one of the challenges of a new physics that is not even in its infancy at this point. I think there is a distinct possibility that so-called dark matter is what makes up the unseen and more refined levels/planes of reality. It is to be hoped that at some point we will be able to detect, work with, and gain more knowledge of dark matter and these realms and do and achieve things that we cannot even imagine at this point. Given the association of these realms with consciousness, it could be that they will ever and only be accessed via conscious beings rather than instruments, but some type of subtle apparatus may be possible. Likewise, knowing and understanding how spirit and substance meet and interact in a way that can be summarized by some type of physics that is not just a "Theory of Everything" related to the physical, but a "Theory of Everything" related to and covering all the domains, plains and realms and how they relate to consciousness may ultimately be a reality--though it is hard for me to imagine that any time soon.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  28. There and back again

    There and back again Senior Member

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    I don't see the current iteration of humanity continuing given that our spiritual progress is slow for the most part though improving, the issue is the template leaves a lot baked in that doesn't allow for a healthier balance with issues like duality ect. One of the issues is material thinking with people seeing themselves as being material first rather than as spiritual beings coupled with very rigid systems of thought and indoctrination that hinders spiritual advancement. Without going into detail Atlantis had similar experiences that lead to its downfall while some have memories going back further elsewhere that had taken things to even greater extremes.
     
  29. Speedwell

    Speedwell Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I'm always optimistic, to me that has been key to progressing. Nevertheless, I share some of your concerns, particularly with regard to rigid systems of thought. There's a difficulty in that individuals may break free of their bonds, but then wanting to return and free their fellows, find themselves misunderstood or shut out. But yes, there are good people out there, perhaps nearby. One thing we need collectively, is to allow our compassion to override whatever it may be which keeps us separate.
     
  30. cloud potato

    cloud potato Senior Registered

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    I remember Dr Michio Kaku describing the Kardashev scale and explaining the types of technologies we could expect to find from the different types civilization. I am hopeful for this planets future and believe 400 years from now we will be in a much different place. I truly believe it. I also believe mother nature will balance things out in between now and then. We may witness such a balancing act again in 2025. Swami has said by 2034 we can expect to usher in the more compassionate generation where politics and the direction of humanity is concerned. For fun you might enjoy this website if I haven't already recommended it, www.futuretimeline.net
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
    Peace of mind likes this.

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