Ian Stevenson page

Discussion in 'SCIENTIFIC and ANECDOTAL research' started by Deborah, Jan 3, 2004.

  1. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 1997
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    631
    Location:
    CA - USA
    kstornado11 likes this.
  2. Dr.K.S.Rawat

    Dr.K.S.Rawat Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2000
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    69 A/2 Goyalnagar,Indore,MP, INDIA
    It's pity !

    It’s pity that most of the intelligent, educated and even scientific minded persons (like most of the participants here in the various sections of the forum, I think, are), know nothing or very little about the tremendous work done by Dr.Ian Stevenson. He is like Einstein in the field of reincarnation researches. There cannot be any serious article, presentation, or even meaningful discussion on Reincarnation researches without a mention of Dr.Stevenson‘s enormous work.
    One reason of his not being much known I think is the fact that he has never been a populist writer. He had been coming to India and had toured many countries all over the world for 25 years till 1986 but did not permit any one to interview him. Even his colleagues were surprised on his consenting me for it when we first met in Delhi. (The interview is in the Library section here).
    He is indeed not an easily readable author but he is a MUST for any one seriously interested in the subject of reincarnation.
     
  3. Titus Rivas

    Titus Rivas Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2000
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Nijmegen, The Netherlands
    Dr. Stevenson

    Ian Stevenson should get a Nobel Prize for his work!
    It's very unjust that he hasn't got one yet. Let's hope he will sooner or later enjoy the fruits of his contributions...

    He is 85 years old and still active.

    Titus
     
    SleeplessFox and faye lorraine like this.
  4. SophieP

    SophieP Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have recently read 'old souls - scientific proof for past lives' and can hugely recommend it. It is an excellent book and well worth a read.
    Ian Stevenson really deserves better recognition for his work. I am currently reading 'Return from Heaven' by Carol Bowman and can recommend this too.
     
  5. Dr.K.S.Rawat

    Dr.K.S.Rawat Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2000
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    69 A/2 Goyalnagar,Indore,MP, INDIA
    Yes SophieP,
    'Old Souls' is a nice book.
    And, the last sentence , what a subtle ending,is a challange for all the critics.
    ;)

    I appreciate your saying "could be true".

    "I learned long ago to try to be careful about these things"
    Very nice!
    The problem with most of the beliefs/ideas/theories in these fields is that they are just speculative.I would personally like to have all these with solid empirical proves.Reincarnation hypothesis has lot of factual evidences now. I have in my organization more than 500 files of children claiming to recall one (sometimes more) past life/s.
    Of course, not all are strong but many are such that cannot be explained by any other hypothesis except reincarnation.
    Best wishes,Dorie!:)

    No Dorie.My remark was not about Dr.Stevenson.It was with regard to other theories etc.
    I am sorry I gave a wrong impression.
     
  6. Helen Mills

    Helen Mills Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Dr. Ian Stevenson

    Hi, Deborah!
    I once inquired about Dr. Ian Stevenson...it's been so long, I don't hardly recall, but it seems that he has children as his clients. He seems to dismiss any adult who would like his opinion. Maybe this is what turns people off.
    I also think I remember reading (somewhere) that he uses hypnosis on these children. It seems to me that I have a book in my collection which speaks of this. Maybe this, too, is what turns people off.
    In my opinion, hypnosis should not be allowed.
    Has anyone out there ever heard of him doing this?
     
  7. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 1997
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    631
    Location:
    CA - USA
    Happy Easter!

    Dr. Ian Stevenson - only researches children who have spontaneous memories. To my knowledge he never uses hypnosis on children. I think you are mistaken. ;)

    His approach is VERY scientific and his papers read like science reports. Perhaps that is the difficulty most people have when they want to read about his research. It's like doing research...many many cases and reports. Not necessarily enjoyable reading.

    Jim B. Tucker has taken over his research - Stevenson has retired.
     
  8. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 1997
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    631
    Location:
    CA - USA
    In fact - if you open the link in the first post in this thread you will read the following;

    And if you read a little further down -

     
    Susie C and faye lorraine like this.
  9. Helen Mills

    Helen Mills Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Dr. Ian Stevens

    Thanks Deborah.
    Memory does play tricks, but if my memory serves me, the book told about Dr. Stevenson's travels around the earth following leads of children who demonstrated that they remembered past lives. It seems that one little boy insisted that a particular woman was his wife. Apparently, the woman's husband had died a short while before, but long enough for this child to be a few years older. Maybe someone else can also throw some light on this. I'm puzzled.
     
  10. Helen Mills

    Helen Mills Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Dr.Ian Stevenson

    Hello!
    Dorie, I read your info. about the 'little boy'. I think he lived in India.
    One of these days I'll search through my books (not catalogued) to see if I can find that particular one or one other which would have discussed some of Dr. Ian Stevenson's work. He certainly should be commended for doing an enormous amount of research. He has been a real 'trail blazer'.
     
  11. Helen Mills

    Helen Mills Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Dr.Ian Stevenson

    Hello Deborah,

    I located one book I have which tells a bit about Dr. Ian Stevenson and his work in Chapter Three (The Scientific View of Reincarnation). The book is entitled 'Life Beyond Life The Evidence for Reincarnation' by Hans Holzer.
    Check page 13 approximately half way down. I would say that this is what I recall about Dr. Stevenson and hypnosis. Perhaps I'm not understanding exactly what Dr. Holzer is trying to inform us about in regards to a man he obviously admires.
     
  12. Helen Mills

    Helen Mills Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Dr. Ian Stevenson

    Hello Deborah,

    Quote,"Dr. Stevenson, just as any responsible parapsychologist, always looks for alternate explanations so that he may rule them out, before he accepts reincarnation as the answer to a puzzling case. Everything is considered: early experiences, accidental information, newspaper accounts--anything that might have been forgotten consciously but can be brought out under hypnosis."
     
  13. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 1997
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    631
    Location:
    CA - USA
    I think the passage is in reference to "Being responsible" in research {Like any responsible parapsychologist} and then the author lists the ways in which researchers can find out if their client is having memories from a past life or if the information was gained in this life - unconsciously.

    I know of no reference in Stevenson's work with hypnosis being used with children. Perhaps Jim B. Tucker can answer this one. He is Ian Stevenson's replacement at the University and is continuing his Stevenson's work.

    "Everything is considered: early experiences, accidental information, newspaper accounts--anything that might have been forgotten consciously but can be brought out under hypnosis."
     
  14. Kolo

    Kolo Probationary

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reincarnation - karma

    I think now it is important to focus on WHY we reincarnate.

    karma and reincarnation do not require proof anymore .. they are. In fact they are part of the Creational Laws of the Universe.

    Why do we reincarnate - back into lives, with the same people, differing relationships but basically 'knowing' another.

    What one has caused, one must live to experience that cause (if not that life, then the ensuing lives)

    It is because of humanities extreme karmic debt - to each other, to others.. even places and things.
    It is these unresolved karmas, that will cause us to keep coming back, to see - UNDERSTAND - and say sorry.. or forgive, when we couldnt way back then.
    And karma is such, that it will keep on through the ages, through future ancestors eternally, until SEEN, UNDERSTOOD AND RELEASED (with Forgiveness).

    But we never do - we never understand, never see (the pastlife circumstance that we are still living) and therefore never forgive... and so it goes on and on.

    Children are not absolved from karma, nor the pope, the Delai Llama, noone.

    It CAN be dismantled - 'completed' - healed.
    And must, if humanity is to ascend to the new age.
    As we cannot ascend with unresolved karmic debt.

    Namaste
    Kolo
     
  15. Helen Mills

    Helen Mills Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Ian Stevenson

    Hello, folks!

    Did anyone contact Dr. Ian Stevenson re: using hypnosis (or not) on children? Someone had mentioned that he lived rather close to them.

    Initally, children remember spontaniously, but there is nothing to say that Dr. Stevenson or any other in his field, used hypnosis in the process of follow-up after the case was brought to his attention and after he agreed to research that particular child...is there?

    Helen
     
  16. lagrima

    lagrima It wasn't MPD after all!

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, Georgia
  17. Helen Mills

    Helen Mills Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Ian Stevenson

    Hello!

    I read and re-read the article, but, in my opinion, it does not prove to me that he did not use hypnosis.

    There are different types of dreams.

    From personal experience...I know that the dream I had when I was five, supports the existance of reincarnation. I have never allowed myself to be hypnotized. The memory of that dream is as vivid today as it was fifty-six years ago.

    I know I lived in another time and in another place. I know who I was and I know the exact home. I've gone there a few times...it's an historical place...open to the public. I have even found my grave.
     
  18. anentity

    anentity New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2006
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Virginia
    Interesting link on Stevenson.

    After all those "I do nots..." Stevenson then says

    So it seems that only in the form of "serious research", he condones hypnotic regression. Would that apply to the children he is researching?
     
  19. Helen Mills

    Helen Mills Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Ian Stevenson

    Hello Anenity,

    Thank you for that! I guess if one is going to quote someone, it is best to quote it all. Dr. Stevenson was 'serious' about his work. I feel he did not work with adults due to the fact, in my opinion, that they could have been influenced throughout their lives and that that influence would have an effect on the material obtained during hypnosis.

    I, personally, inquired about that to either him or his people and I, basically, was told that he didn't work with adults. I was interested in telling my own story to see what he would think of it, but...to no avail.

    Helen
     
  20. lagrima

    lagrima It wasn't MPD after all!

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, Georgia
    Helen,

    Dr. Ian Stevenson's staff approached me about my experience. I also have some published work Dr. Stevenson did on adult reincarnation experiences (all from dreams).

    So, he has done some work. But, it is very very minimal. I think they would be interested if, like my case, they found an adult with documented spontaneous memories similar to those of children.

    Were you hypnotized?
     
  21. Helen Mills

    Helen Mills Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Ian Stevenson

    Hello!

    My experience happened when I was only five years old. In my opinion, it is unique! I am Canadian now, but I was an American in that life.

    Helen
     
  22. lagrima

    lagrima It wasn't MPD after all!

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, Georgia
    That makes sense Helen!

    Bummer they weren't interested. You should keep everything documented though just in case they have a shift in research. You really never know. Dr. Jim Tucker is heading up Dr. Stevenson's research now.

    Good luck! :thumbsup:
     
  23. Helen Mills

    Helen Mills Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Ian Stevenson

    Hello Lagrima,

    I'm writing a book about it, therefore, it doesn't matter that they were not interested. I'm sure many good cases have gone by the wayside because investigators didn't become interested in them.

    Helen
     
  24. lagrima

    lagrima It wasn't MPD after all!

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, Georgia

    :thumbsup: I know EXACTLY how you feel!!! I investigated my own case and then wrote a book about it too!

    Way to go!! keep it up and don't let them get you down ;)
     
  25. Dr.K.S.Rawat

    Dr.K.S.Rawat Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2000
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    69 A/2 Goyalnagar,Indore,MP, INDIA
    Dr.Stevenson and Hypnosis

    No need to speculate about Dr.Stevenson's views about the use of hypnosis for reincarnation studies:
    :thumbsup:

    Hypnotic Regression to Previous Lives
    A Short Statement by Ian Stevenson, M.D.

    The following remarks have been written in an effort to reply most effectively to the large number of letters and inquiries that I receive from persons who wish to apply to me for hypnotic regression to previous lives, wish me to recommend a hypnotist to them, or wish me to investigate some material that has emerged from such an experience.



    Many persons who attach no importance whatever to their dreams--realizing that most of them are merely images of the dreamer's subconscious mind without correspondence to any other reality--nevertheless believe that whatever emerges during hypnosis can invariably be taken at face value. In fact, the state of a person during hypnosis resembles in many ways--although not in all--that of a person dreaming. The subconscious parts of the mind are released from ordinary inhibitions and they may then present in dramatic form a new "personality." If the subject has been instructed by the hypnotist--explicitly or implicitly--to "go back to another place and time" or given some similar guidance, the new "personality" may appear to be one of another period of history. Such evoked "previous personalities" may be extremely plausible both to the person having the experience and to other persons watching him or her. Experiments by Baker1and by Nicholas Spanos and his colleagues2 have shown how easily different suggestions given by a hypnotist can influence the features of the "previous personality" in conformity with suggestions.

    In fact, however, nearly all such hypnotically evoked "previous personalities" are entirely imaginary just as are the contents of most dreams. They may include some accurate historical details, but these are usually derived from information the subject has acquired normally through reading, radio and television programs, or other sources. The subject may not remember where he obtained the information included, but sometimes this can be brought out in other sessions with hypnosis designed to search for the sources of the information used in making up the "previous personality." Experiments by E. Zolik3 and by R. Kampman and R. Hirvenoja4 have demonstrated this phenomenon.

    A marked emotional experience during the hypnotic regression provides no assurance that memories of a real previous life were recovered. The subjective experience of reliving a previous life may be impressive to the person having the experience, and yet the "previous life" may be a fantasy, like most of our dreams. Also, benefit (even dramatic improvement) in some physical or psychological symptom does not provide evidence that a real previous life has been remembered. Persons with psychosomatic symptoms and psychoneuroses recover following a wide variety of psychotherapeutic measures. There are many general effects of any psychotherapeutic measure. Improvement may be due exclusively to these and have nothing to do with the special technique, whether hypnotic regression, psychoanalysis, or whatever, of the psychotherapist.

    It is worth emphasizing that very young children who remember verified previous lives often have phobias, such as of water, even though they remember the event that seems to have generated the phobia, such as a death from drowning. Thus remembering the cause of a phobia or some other symptom does not necessarily remove it.

    Persons considering hypnotic regression experiments should ask themselves: What benefit would there be for me in coping with my present difficulties if I did remember something that seemed somehow connected with them from a previous life? Would such a memory, even if it were real, remove the difficulties?

    This being a brief statement, it cannot do justice to all the complex aspects of the subject, but I will mention that very rarely something of value may emerge during experiments with hypnotic regression to "previous lives." ......
    The procedure of hypnotic regression to "previous lives" is not without some hazards. Instances have occurred in which the "previous personality" has not "gone away" when instructed to do so and the subject in such cases has been left in an altered state of personality for several days or more before restoration of his normal personality.

    I am not now engaging in experiments with hypnotic regression to "previous lives." I do not recommend hypnotists to persons who wish to have this experience. I do not approve of any hypnotist who makes promises to clients that suggest they will certainly return to a real previous life under his direction. I do not approve of anyone who charges fees for acting as a hypnotist in such experiments.

    I do not undertake verifications of details that may emerge from such experiments except in the extremely rare instances that seem to me to show strong evidence of some paranormal process. ........
    Although opposed to commercial exploitation of unwarranted claims for hypnotic regression, I am in favor of serious research with hypnotic regression.

    ..... The dangers of deception and self-deception are perhaps greater than in experiments with hypnosis, especially when the persons experimenting become convinced that they are being guided by discarnate personalities. ......
     
    faye lorraine likes this.
  26. lonewolf

    lonewolf Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Virginia
    While I respect Dr. Stevenson I think he is unnecessarily rigid on this. First, his assumption that the people who place great credence in PL regression do not place value in dreams is wrong. Quite the opposite. Most people who appreciate PL regressions place VERY great credence in dreams. If, in fact, my PL memories emerge from a dream state, it does not in any case prove them right or wrong.

    Second, that Stevenson does not approve of those who ask money to perform PL regression. Is he, then, willing to perform PL regressions for free to anyone who asks? If not, why? Does he think all adult PL regressions useless? If so, why does he express an interest in PL regressions producing xenoglossy?

    That would seem to indicate that he thinks some good CAN come frome PL regressions, but that he only "approves" of those that are empirically proveable--or, more crudely, those episodes he finds useful to his own personal research. Were he to say that he only finds empirically verifiable regressions "useful" to him, I would understand; but in his use of the word "approve" he seems--a little priggishly, if I may say so--to indicate that any not empirically-verifiable regression is improper if not immoral.

    And in any case, I do not agree with the assumption that only empirically verifiable knowledge is valid or useful.

    If Dr. Stevenson disapproves of those who ask fees to perform PL regressions, does he also disapprove of those who ask fees to conduct traditional secular psychotherapy for an hour, or who ask fees to listen for an hour and then prescribe Prozac? Isn't the bottom line: what helps?

    Lonewolf
     
  27. lonewolf

    lonewolf Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Virginia
    What a perfect example of wanting to have your cake and eat it too--or have it both ways! Dr. Stevenson outright concedes that hypnotic regression of adults may be useful--but then condemns all regressions not conducted scientifically--i.e. under the personal supervision of he or one of his associates. This is a classic case of scientists arrogating all knowledge, and all searches for knowledge, to themselves. Yet some of the greatest human discoveries have been made by amateurs without the scientific seal of approval.

    And how can a researcher know that claims are "unwarranted" until he researches them? Does Dr. Stevenson imply that the commercial exploitation of warranted claims for hypnotic regression is ok?

    Lonewolf
     
  28. Dr.K.S.Rawat

    Dr.K.S.Rawat Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2000
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    69 A/2 Goyalnagar,Indore,MP, INDIA
    Be sure he said "Many persons who attach no importance whatever to their dreams"

    Pl.note,he wrote:"Although opposed to commercial exploitation of unwarranted claims for hypnotic regression, I am in favor of serious research with hypnotic regression.
    May be he is stating as a scientist.Is it necessory to put something he stated:"more crudely"(That way, we may condemn anybody).
    I beg to disagree.
    I agree with u on this .There are a lot of such things.:)

    I am much surprised .Kindly give me the reference.
     
    faye lorraine likes this.
  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Senior Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Virginia
    The criticism remains. I cannot imagine anybody who values PL regression attaching "no importance whatever to their dreams."
    And, as I mentioned in the previous post, who is to define what is or is not "serious research with hypnotic regression"? And how can one say whether a claim is or is not "unwarranted" until research is conducted into it? That is rather like me (a historian) saying I am only interested in "serious historical research"--a statement that says nothing whatsoever.

    As for "commercial exploitation," another subjective term, it is equally unclear what Stevenson is trying to say. If a traditional secular psychotherapist is permitted to charge a fee without being accused of exploitation, is a PL regressionist in private practice supposed to do it for free?

    To use another analogy, it's rather like me (a history professor) saying you should only be allowed to write history books if you're not paid for it. Otherwise you are just guilty of "commercial exploitation."

    If what a regressionist does is of value his or her patients, he or she should by all means charge a fee. It's a service. If PL regression was proven to be harmful, or if it was shown to have cultic implications (i.e. people bequesting entire estates to would-be spirit guides) that would be another thing; but in the meantime, those who choose PL regression are adults and can presumably decide how to dispose of their money in a way meaningful to them.

    Academics like me and Dr. Stevenson habitually state things in faux-respectable phraseology to cover up the implications of what we may actually be saying. Sometimes it's necessary to put things a little more bluntly.

    My remark, "under the personal supervision of he or one of his associates" is prefaced by i.e.--in other words. What I am trying to say is that in condemning all regressions not conducted "scientifically," Stevenson is in effect saying that only he and his associates in the scientific community should conduct PL regression research--research that, incidentally, remains inaccessible to most of us.

    Dr. Stevenson has for many years been fixated on gaining academic respectability for research in reincarnation, and one gathers that--with good reason--he sees the large number of cranks, frauds, and pop regressionists that circulate out there as potentially threatening to his life's work. Thus his vigor in disassociating himself from non-academic researchers.

    Yet in this I think he falls into the same trap of academic snobbery that he has spent so many years trying to combat. No doubt he and his center at UVA are constantly besieged by a lot of well-meaning but silly requests. He has every right to ignore them. But I have to say I disapprove of his disapproval of those who conduct PL regressions without sanction from the academic or scientific community.

    Again, it'd be like me saying I disapprove of anyone without a Ph.D. who writes about history. My opinion is that everyone should be active in exploring his or her universe. I'd hate to imagine a world where we left all knowledge-seeking to the academics. That would be a frightening 'Brave New World' indeed!!!!

    Lonewolf
     
  30. EntropyFails

    EntropyFails New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    1
    Lonewolf:

    Dr Stevenson is an old school scientist. To him, you only do what you can PROVE. As he knows very well that wishful thinking can corrupt the mental processes, he rejects hypnosis as a tool for his research. It has to be ruled out of his own research to make it scientifically unassailable. He made the foundation and it HAS to be rock solid.

    Now following from that, if it isn't a scientific form of inquiry, then you shouldn't really charge money for it anywhere. You shouldn't charge money for it because you cannot PROVE it does anything. If you could prove it, then you should do so and thus provide the basis for a scientific past life regression therapy. From that proven study, you can make a reasonable medical procedure that involves past life hypnosis.

    I think perhaps that you are not "getting" Dr Stevenson. He's a medical doctor. These people HATE any type of treatment that does not come with a 10 year study on health benefits and risks. Thus to Dr Stevenson, because this precondition has not been met, no past life hypnosis should be allowed as a form of "therapy" that you pay for.

    Does that make more sense?

    I'm sure that deep down he FEELS that it past life regression may work. But he can not condone a practice of paying for it as no science exists to back it up.

    Hope that helps.
     
    faye lorraine likes this.

Share This Page