Is reincarnation a choice?

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by Pyewacket, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. Pyewacket

    Pyewacket New Member

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    I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but I've wondered if we choose to reincarnate or if we had other options. Is this the only world we return to or are we free to live in other worlds and dimensions?

    If a thread on this subject is in the files- could you direct me to it? Thanks. :)
     
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  2. BriarRose

    BriarRose Senior Registered

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    Hi Pyewacket, It's a very good question, and as usual, there are many opinions here. My own is that we aren't given a choice about coming back - we incarnate until our soul's purpose is served. Michael Newton discusses unwilling souls being strongly "encouraged", until they agree to come back into the flesh again. Others believe that reincarnation is a natural process, much like water evaporating, turning into clouds, and falling to earth again. In that case, there would be no choice. We have members who say if they are given a choice, they won't come back again. We can't discuss incarnation on other worlds, because the subject doesn't abide by the rules of the forum. I think there is some scope to discuss parallel realities. I'm sure others will have opinions, and express them better than me.
     
  3. argonne1918

    argonne1918 Senior Registered

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    Michael Newton discusses lives on other worlds in his books "Journey of Souls" and "Destiny of Souls". Many people think it's science fiction but astronomers are now discovering, thanks to the Hubble telescope and others, thousands or millions of other planets in the universe that could have life on them.
     
  4. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    I believe that Reincarnation is a choice. It may be analogous to going to school. If we put the question of attending classes to a panel of wise scholars, they would probably reply that it is necessary only if we wish to progress.
     
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  5. Pyewacket

    Pyewacket New Member

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    Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. We appear to operate in a violent/negative paradigm in this world and it doesn't seem to be changing for the better. We are advancing technologically, but still stuck in an outdated religious/power structure. Is it because those who seek to keep things the way they are keep coming back in positions of power? Is there any possibility of evolving into a more advanced culture? Seems like a catch 22.
     
  6. argonne1918

    argonne1918 Senior Registered

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    I think our current society is being run by young souls who tend to be very materialistic and very controlling. They would argue that we are a more advanced society. I guess it all depends on how much experience and how many past lives we have under our belt.
     
  7. Ghost of Gumby

    Ghost of Gumby Hi, Friends : )

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    I think that we may have a choice to continue one Earth as another incarnate being, or we may be able to chose to remove ourselves from the concurrent time line. I am not sure that this is possible as if you did escape the concurrent time continuum then that would allow one to reincarnate into the past or future, and I don't know if that is even possible. As far as being allowed to move to other alien worlds or dimensions, I don't think this is permitted, as we are humans and belong to terra firma, not somwhere else. I haven't heard any accounts of a PL experience from the perspective of an otherworldly being,that seems rare. Sometimes I feel as though our future lives are charted, and we have no choice at all. I think that I just contradicted myself here, but thats okay, I am not that sure but still struggling for an answer.
     
  8. Pyewacket

    Pyewacket New Member

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    I am open to the idea of reincarnation, but I guess I don't understand enough about it to make sense of such a complex system.


    I don't think it's young souls in power- I think they're groups of souls who have decided that they like power and wealth and have made a game of it. Since there appears to be no governing forces to prevent this from happening- they've nothing to lose and so much material gain to pursue in their incarnations.


    I've always believed that there was a more solid purpose for our time here. That we experienced a wide variety of lives in an evolution away from material temptations that keep us trapped in the physical. We suffered difficulties to evolve our minds so we can see things as they truly are and break free of the illusions that bind us here. YMMV :)
     
  9. argonne1918

    argonne1918 Senior Registered

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    When you learn more about reincarnation you will see there are certain characteristics associated with different soul ages.
     
  10. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    I tend to agree with you on that one Pyewacket. I think there are certain individuals/soul groups of individuals who are just up to no good and cause a great deal of the trouble in the world. It's been going on for some time and in my view often involves the same 'entities'. I've read here and there about various modern day 'bad eggs' being reincarnations of historical 'bad eggs' often more than once.


    That said, there are restraining influences on these people, but they are not the restraining influences of 'heaven' but of people on this Earth. Many, many terrible things that used to happen don't happen (quite as much) any more. You only have to go back to medieval times to see all sorts of disgraceful conduct that went largely unchecked. That's because people have banded together and put laws in place to prevent it - police, judges, democratic elections... Boring perhaps, but important.


    People can change of course - even very, very wicked people. When they eventually get sick of it or learn there's a better way to live, or for love, or for spiritual awakening, or for their own reasons, eventually they change. There are various tales on the forum of people who got up to 'no good' in previous lives but are now appalled at their behaviour then and would not dream of behaving that way in future.

    It would be nice to think that there was a purpose. Opinion is divided on this. There is a school of 'new age' thinking that thinks that we are here to learn lessons, with the aim of 'evolving' and eventually achieving a state of heavenly bliss. I'm less convinced of that myself. Perhaps it's true. Perhaps it's all much more random than that? Maybe it's as random/non-random as everything else in nature? If it was like the rest of nature, we wouldn't be going in a straight line, but in a circle.


    The Buddhists believe that you can transcend 'suffering' by elevating your thoughts and regulating your actions and generally behaving well and calming the unruliness of 'human nature'. They believe that if you practice this for many lives you will eventually transcend the physical, see through the 'illusion' of life, and pass onto some higher level of existence. They also believe that many keep returning in order to help others, which is the truest sacrifice. The Buddhists do not believe there is any kind of god (however you conceive her) behind any of this, orchestrating it from beyond the 'veil'. They just see it as the forces of the universe at work.


    Maybe the 'naughty' ones keep returning in order to test us and give us interesting problems to solve? Maybe they're just plain 'bad' and there is no point to any of it? I don't begin to know how much purpose or control there is over all of this or if it just 'happens'.
     
  11. HeatherMarie

    HeatherMarie New Member

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    Can you tell some of these characteristics, or where to find them? I would like to know how "old" I am. :)
     
  12. Ceridwen

    Ceridwen Senior Registered

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    Personally, I would say the vast majority of people will go for things like "power and wealth" if they have half a chance. I wouldn't say that's unique to a few "groups of souls". One only has to study the behaviour of the average lottery winner or someone that has been fortunate to make lots of money from one just skill (eg football or pop music) to see that the vast majority of people in those instances will hang onto their money for themselves/etc and just plain "blow the lot". There are few people in those circumstances that will continue to lead a "normal lifestyle and standard of living" and just give the rest to charity or the like. I think this is a defect that most of us share.


    If I'm being totally honest here, then I am aware that I expect a bit "easier" life than many equivalent people from an even poorer background (though goodness knows I came from a poor enough one and am currently on too low an income to pay tax). Why? Because that's what I've seen people I know having/expecting to have shortly during my early adulthood (ie 1960s/1970s). Hence the explanation for sheer frustration it took so long to buy my own home/okay about working in an office (but refuse to work in a call centre)/okay about working "standard hours" (but refuse to work antisocial hours) and that goes on over to general standard of living etc. Most of us want what we personally "know" and there will be foot-stomping if expected to put up with less.


    Though, I have had for some time in my mind an Expected Level of standard of living and, if I had spare money over and above having safeguarded that for myself - then my intention is to give away the surplus to good causes (I simply don't want an expensive Leisure Lifestyle and one reasonable house will do me).
     
  13. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    This speaks to something I've been thinking about a lot lately. It relates to the thread topic, in that it asks 'what are we doing here?' Is this a choice or fate or just how things are or...? Is there some purpose? Is this random? Is this a matter of 'being careful what you wish for'?


    Why do some people love only money and will do anything for it, including murder, sometimes on a mass scale, but others are perfectly content with little or no money, and would much rather pursue a life in the arts (often poorly remunerated), or become a monk or do all sorts of other things rather than spend precious their time amassing shiny things... Why? Is it evolution? Is it God (however you conceive Her)? Is it chance of upbringing, family, culture or physicality ... what is it?


    In our 'culture', in the 'west' in the early 21st century, our lives are certainly full of diversion and amusement. We mostly have clean water, a secure roof, enough to eat, relative safety and security. That is something some 'poorer' people in the world might well wish for in a life of dull, rustic, poverty. They might not see the harmony and tranquility and beauty of the way they live ... They might long for something else, something different...


    We westerners are bombarded in almost every moment of our waking lives with images of desirable goodies - watches, cars, handbags, food, everything... In the other waking moments we are bombarded with images of sport, war, sex, cops and robbers and explosions. This is when we're not watching people argue about politics in between commercials. Is it any wonder so many people are discontented, depressed, crazed, anxious, fearful and in many ways quite unwell?


    Many of us have grown up with this modern madness and are quite blind to it. (I have a longer perspective). I think it is from this constant bombardment of images comes the impression that 'everyone' wants to be rich and powerful (and have lots of toys and shiny things). I think it's brainwashing.


    Actually, most people want love, contentment, joy and peace. Money and power can't purchase these things, no matter what the movie moguls and advertising executives might want you to believe. Indeed, in real life, an excess of them tends to produce the opposite. I know. I've been there. As I said, be careful what you wish for and think what you are doing.


    I'm working on a theory, and there seems to be a pattern with me at least, that each new life I get whatever it was I wished for last time. Thinking about it recently I think I've observed this also in the small number of people I have known 'before' and know now.


    Just like in the fairy tales, sometimes the wish turns out just as it should, and others, not so much. If you are good natured, kind, and pure of heart, your wishes have a way of turning out the way you'd want them to and you live happily ever after. Perhaps some people have figured this out, and others, not so much.
     
  14. firebird

    firebird Registered User

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    I think we have options, but there are restrictions - the options offered would be based on our what our soul requires at the time. Sometimes the choices do involve reincarnating in another world/dimension. I am a soul that has lived in another world. When the world I inhabited could no longer sustain life, I chose to begin reincarnating to earth. I think the term Newton uses for such souls is a 'hybrid soul'.


    Some people believe/have theorised that a rhesus negative blood type is an indication of a soul who may have lived in another dimension. I have no thoughts on this whatsoever, but oddly enough my blood type is rhesus negative.


    I agree with you that "there are a group of souls who have decided they like power and wealth and have made a game of it" ... and I believe it has turned into a war between 2 distinct groups and that most people are not even aware of this. ... it's a large rabbit warren ... the majority of people simply cannot fathom this and/or just do not want to know.


    ----


    @tanguerra, I couldn't agree with you more.
     
  15. BriarRose

    BriarRose Senior Registered

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    Well, Tanguerra, if you need examples of your theory, I probably am one. I'm amazed that in the PLs I remember, male and female, I rarely had children. This time, being a mother was what I wanted most, although I'm not sure I was very good at it. Perhaps there's a "learning curve"? I have three children, and a good husband. Every time I feel "low", and sorry for myself, I list my blessings. Invariably, I have the thought, "Well, I have had that". I think you do do get what you wished for most. I don't know if your energy attracts it, or your actions, or it's some kind of divine gift. The universe is always a puzzle to me.
     
  16. Pyewacket

    Pyewacket New Member

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    Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and taking the time to comment. I agree with so much of what was said.


    It is a complex idea- reincarnation. Maybe it's a flaw in me, but I need to see a rhythm and reason for everything but life is not predictable.


    Tanguerra- great posts! I don't believe in a deity, but I don't have a problem believing that there is a force greater than ourselves somewhere in this vast universe.


    I do see the negative aspects of life as the work of groups attracted to them. I'm not sure if they feel they have to evolve beyond it. I agree, that it will take humankind to change it. It does seem that materialism is a main distraction for those in the more developed countries. People are judged more by their possessions, looks, and status than by the quality of their character.


    I struggle with the idea of purpose to it all. I like to believe that there is a reason to keep going. Otherwise, it would be like living in a computer game- life lost- start again- in endless repetition. One would succumb to fatigue after so many lives/deaths- no?


    Your observations of materialism in the western world are right on the mark! I used to shop all the time with our kids, but at some point, I recognized that this was not healthy. We emphasized inner qualities. They are pretty frugal adults now, they still like things but it's not the driving force of their lives. I only shop for what I need and have been donating things that I don't use anymore. We like to keep things simple and comfy. We're grateful for that!


    I do think that we form our next live while living this one. I beginning to see what so many, like Chopra, (just first example off the top of my head- there are many more, for sure!) have been trying to tell us.


    Have any of you heard of Dr. Joe Dispenza? He explains how our emotions and behaviors wire our brains and affect our lives and how we interact with it. I'm wondering if this "wiring" from our present life carries over to our next life. If that's true than I need to upgrade. LOL


    Ceridwen- You are so right- it's not just those who are born to great wealth- some middle/lower income people also react poorly when they come by a windfall of cash. They fall for all the materialistic ideals promoted by our very market savvy culture. So many end off worse than before!


    I think it's better to advance through hard work careful planning- it might be slower and less glamorous- but you come by it by your own positive efforts.


    I appreciate you all so much! I've been waiting for conversations like this for years!!! hug3.gif
     
  17. Pyewacket

    Pyewacket New Member

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    Wow- really interesting theory- I wondered about people from other worlds- could they have been some of the great thinkers that helped move civilization forward? There do seem to be people who come out of the blue and are so different- like Tesla. We still can't figure out how the ancient civilizations created their monuments for example. We'd have a hard time of it even with our modern equipment. Not trying to talk about anything that violates the forum rules- just wondering if we get a boost of new knowledge from time to time to keep things going or if we were once far more advanced in ancient times and had to start again when things deteriorated. Maybe it's one of life's cycles.
     
  18. Grainne

    Grainne New Member

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    I believe anything is possible including living on other planets. You might want to look up 'Starseeds' for more information.
     
  19. Ceridwen

    Ceridwen Senior Registered

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    I think the idea of maybe having lived on other planets before is an idea that many of us will be "open" to. Me...the jury is out...and I regard it as a possibility. I am perfectly prepared to believe there are "people" of one description or another on other planets and it may be that I personally was one of them at some point. Hence my personal viewpoint of "Beautiful planet...shame about many of the people on it...".


    Personally...right now...I'm onto the "Which came first - the chicken or the egg" way of thinking in a particular respect. Someone somewhere has done a recent analysis of factors to do with one's body as to why some people have more or less maternal instinct. The article made absolutely perfect sense to me personally - as in my reaction was "No wonder I have absolutely NO maternal instinct whatsoever - as, according to them my maternal instinct would be 50% down to the norm because of this factor to do with my body(in its widest interpretation)". But then again maybe I don't want children because my maternal grandmother didn't and then my mother didn't and I'm the one who "got lucky" (as in first generation to have the free choice about these things - ie I came of age post the Pill and legal abortion - hence first generation to not have the "Biology as destiny syndrome". I was able to decide and implement that decision and was the first generation that could...).


    Hmmm...hence the "Which came first - the chicken or the egg" thoughts. Do we get a body in accord with us personally OR does our current body influence the way we think/feel? Oh boy...my head hurts....


    My assumption would be that the "chicken" came first in this scenario and our body got "shaped" much in accordance with the person we ourselves basically are (ie before we came into incarnation this time around)...


    I may not be explaining myself very well...but I know what I mean....:confused:
     
  20. Pyewacket

    Pyewacket New Member

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    Thanks! :)
     
  21. BriarRose

    BriarRose Senior Registered

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    We're really getting into subject matter with "starseed" that is beyond the scope of the forum. Perhaps people who want to discuss that could do so by PMs.
     
  22. Pyewacket

    Pyewacket New Member

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    LOL It is a beautiful planet that deserves more love and appreciation!


    I don't know how we start out in our first incarnation- maybe assigned a starter personality? I do think we hard wire our brains over our lifetimes. More reason to be careful of thoughts, words, and actions, like the Buddha had advised. That, this is just my opinion, is what sets us up for our next life. If we carry awful burdens of negative behavior and beliefs- they'll still be with us in our future lives until we replace them with something better.


    Sorry, BriarRose! I went off on a tangent- I'm not really interested in ETs- just possibilities. I'll refrain from further comments on the subject.
     
  23. BriarRose

    BriarRose Senior Registered

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    Thank you, Pyewacket. It keeps me from having to be the villain, editing perfectly reasonable members! :)
     
  24. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    Yes, I agree, although personally I don't like the image of 'hard wiring' anything to do with people. We are not machines and should not think of ourselves that way. I also don't think it's got anything to do with the 'brain' which is basically just a fancy piece of meat that vanishes along with the body. But I know what you mean. I agree we build each life on the foundations of those that went before. We keep our wishes and our dreams. We keep our fears and our foibles. We keep the lessons we've learned. We keep the loves we have earned. We keep the enemies we have made. These are all stored in the so-called 'subconscious'. I've written before on my theory that the 'subconscious' is actually the past life memory repository in all of us.


    I think the 'first incarnation' is a long slow process and just part of evolution. After all, our bodies came from the bodies of apes then hominids, so why would our souls not also have formed gradually over time? Maybe way back to single cell creatures? Why not? At the risk of going 'out of bounds' again, I believe that all living and non-living things are part of the same 'soul' ultimately - like the leaves of a massive tree, so there really is no need for a 'starter' personality. Just as our bodies did not suddenly spring out of nowhere overnight, neither did our 'souls'. They are a work in progress.


    We are free to change our path any time we like from one life to the next or during the present one, but how many people do? Some, of course. Others just go along making the same 'mistakes' over and over until they stop doing that, usually when something 'hits them over the head' (literally or metaphorically) and teaches them a lesson. Is this blind fate? Free will? Evolution? Is this all part of some divine plan? All of the above? Who knows? Not I. :)
     
  25. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    Yes. I've been thinking about it a lot this week. I have a lot of the things I wished for last time - a home of my own, children, a nice job in an office (yes, really), X to be alive....


    I remember wishing for things in one life and then getting them the next. The example of Poland springs to mind. One minute I was aflame with rage and wanting red hot revenge against my persecutors ... next life - Shazam! - I got it. There are many examples of this I have thought of, but you get the idea.
     
  26. firebird

    firebird Registered User

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    Moderators, if my posts are deemed off topic and against the rules here then please remove them (I have no attachment to them). It's sometimes a fine line between sharing knowledge and working within the rules, or saying nothing at all.


    I would like to clarify one more thing though, and then I will stop commenting here ... Pyewacket, your original question was about whether we - AS SOULS - can also reincarnate to other worlds/dimensions, and not just earth. Hence why I answered your question (honestly). I believe my soul originated from the same place as yours (not from another world that "ETs" inhabit). It's only the road that a soul travels that is unique (and not all souls choose to reincarnate to earth). It is my belief that Tesla was a soul who had a HUMAN/earth life experience, but I do believe 'his soul' has also had life experiences elsewhere in the universe. I think Newton's books cover this topic well and in a reasonable, intelligent fashion, for anyone wanting to know more.
     
  27. tanguerra

    tanguerra Moderator Emeritus

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    The rules against talking about 'non-human' experiences are in order to limit things from getting too 'out there'. It's not that it's heretical to mention that this 'happens'. As I understand it, the idea behind it is that, really, there's plenty to talk about without getting into those areas and you need to draw a line somewhere.
     
  28. Pyewacket

    Pyewacket New Member

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    Firebird- I'm not well read on this subject and many of you have this advantage over me. That's why I'm here - I'd like to learn.


    I apologize if it sounded like I was invalidating your experiences. I don't think they were "out there" at all- it sounded very reasonable to me. My response to our Mod was maybe unskillfully phrased. I used "ET" because this seems to be the more sensationalized term and I wanted to reassure her that I was not going in that direction. When I look at the beauty of a night sky full of stars- I can't help but see life- I don't think we live in a cosmic vacuum. Just my 2 cents.


    It's hard to tell how a post sounds to others- I'll try to do better.
     
  29. argonne1918

    argonne1918 Senior Registered

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    We have to remember this is NOT the "Coast to Coast AM" forum. For those of you outside the US that is an extremely popular overnight radio program. Because their goal is to deliver a large as possible audience for the advertisers, their topics are wide ranging including UFOs, "conspiracy theories", paranormal, alternative medicine, etc. Scientific proof is not required. I think Carol Bowman has been on once, several years ago.
     
  30. BriarRose

    BriarRose Senior Registered

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    Firebird, I know the extent of your gifts, and I believe that if anyone is a "starseed", it is probably you. H001 I find it an interesting topic also, particularly your idea about Tesla. I recently read "When We Were Gods", by Carole Chapman. It involved theories about creation, Atlantis, Egypt, and reincarnation that I had never considered. It was a strange book, but made sense of many ideas about the inception of mankind, human evolution, and yes, "starseed". In a PL regression, the author saw herself in an amorphous form, being trapped in the physical by having carnal relations with an unevolved, ape-like human.(Her current husband, by the way! I thought that was an amusing touch :laugh:) Still, there were some interesting theories in that book. On the forum, though, we do have to confine ourselves to this heaven, and this earth, although we know there are no limits with the Divine energy.
     

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