Memories of Early Theosophists?

[SeaAndSky]

I am looking for folks who may have memories of lives where they knew or were one of the early Theosophists. I am particularly interested in contacts and knowledge of Blavatsky and her circle, especially her niece Vera (Zhelihovsky) Johnston, and her niece's husband Charles Johnston. This might include memories from the late 1800s and early 1900s. I have had experiences leading me to believe I was associated in some way with these folks, so I'm interested in others that might have had some association and/or recall related to them, especially Charles and Vera Johnston.

Some background: After moving to the United States in the late 1890s Charles and Vera became associated with the theosophical movement in America and some wealthy folks in NYC, especially as part of what was known as the Hargrove Group, a group of NY theosophists. More information on this couple can be found on the internet, though the following links should serve as an introduction:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles...Theosophist%29

This one has photos of Vera and Charles as well as M. Blavatsky and Vera's mother, so it may jog someone's memory: https://www.google.com/search?q=pho...i=FuyUWdDwI4GpmQH1xrqQDQ#imgrc=GI2HMAbhSf7RoM:

Here is one devoted more specifically to Vera: https://www.google.com/search?q=pho...i=rOyUWczyH4KBmQG3xqj4BQ#imgrc=nS0sketZuufhAM:

I'm leaving off links to Blavatsky as she can easily be found online and is a more famous character by far than Charles and Vera.

This is a shot in the dark, but stranger things have happened!

 

[Tinkerman]

Welcome SeaAndSky, Welcome to the forum. Good luck with your search.


Tman

 

[SeaAndSky]

Thank you Tinkerman. I wish there was some way to slice/dice the information on this board a bit more. In other words, it would be nice to have ways to search and bring up all posts related to (and including memories from/of) particular people, eras and places. What I have found is that ordinary searching brings up multitudinous hits, most of which are irrelevant and merely include some vague reference or other to the search term.


Of course, I don't know how such a thing could be set up, but it would be nice to be able to bring up, e.g., all posts with memories from late 1800s and early 1900s NYC. That would also allow me to identify members that might have relevant people, period and locale memories. Others might have other people, periods and/or locales that would be of particular interest.


As I said, this is really a shot in the dark . . . but who knows? It might come up with something.


BTW--I seem to fit into a typical "type" around here--someone who has finally faced up to the pressure of the stuff that just won't FIT into their existing paradigm and has to be dealt with in some form or another. I also am one of those who must do this very much "on the sly" as it certainly would not fit into the views of my church, family, etc. I see this sentiment expressed by the younger members, but it can impact even those of us with grandchildren!

 

[SeaAndSky]

Most people posting here elaborate in detail about what set them on this path, particularly regression, dream and meditation induced memories--as well as the more spontaneously occurring kind. Actually, like another poster said, I think it would help to get some of this off of my chest. In doing this, I will skip much and just start at the point where a variety of long-terms issues led me to attempt regression via "Youtube" (the "poor man's choice"--or maybe the "dabbler's choice").


I cannot remember the first Youtube that I used, but the presenter wanted to lead me down, down, down into valleys and cellars and so forth in inducing the right state of mind. Somehow, this just seemed to be wrong, for it seemed to me that I needed to be heading for the sea and possibly up high. Nonetheless, I got to the point where I looked down and saw what looked like a simple brown shift and a child's feet, along with a strong impression of a name and that I was a young girl standing near the shore and looking out across or towards the ocean. I believe this was on the coast of S. America, probably Brazil.


I tried again a few weeks later with a Dr. Weiss video and had a much stronger result. The vision, memory and/or impression was quite different and much, much stronger--I found myself standing in a very high place about 10-20 feet away from where the grass ended at a cliff edge and looking across the sea. (I do not think this is the same person or life-time). The air is very bright and I am very happy. I believe there is a wind, but nothing unpleasant. I can see a girl--probably in her mid or late teens--there with me (I believe we are sisters). She is dressed in a full brown skirt and white long sleeved shirt very much in the style of the late 1800s, I could even see her face and long dark brown hair very clearly. Though I cannot now remember precisely what her face looked like, I was able to maintain this vision / impression for some time. There was not much more to it at that time, and I was brought up and out in the usual way that Weiss ends things. However, when I got up and began moving around, I had a continuing sense impression (memory?) and it was very disconcerting. Somehow it almost seemed as if a separate set of sensory impressions was superimposed over my normal sense of bodily perception. It was a bit like a double-exposure, except that I was experiencing it subjectively rather than objectively.


I am a 6 foot tall male, but superimposed over my usual sense of my body was the very tangible sense of a much smaller and somewhat plumper (or at least rounder) feminine frame, I could distinctively feel my shorter arms and legs and even feel the weight of a heavy skirt on my "ghostly" hips and the impression of it swishing along. I had to forcefully dispel the overlapping sensations. No problem getting back to my normal state or awareness, but it definitely was one of the strangest things I had ever experienced. (And no, I am not now, nor have I ever been a transvestite, cross-dresser or etc.). Like I said, this was a truly unique experience.


What should I call this experience--clairkinesthesia perhaps? In any case, I had a strong and immediate impression that I should look up Madame Blavatsky the founder of Theosophy on the internet. I brought up images of her, sometimes with other people. Nothing resonated in terms of being "me" until I found the image of her with her niece, sister and Charles Johnston. I was "nailed" by the image of her niece. I had the immediate certainty that I was looking at a photograph of myself. However, as many seem to note, these kinds of impressions and conclusions are a bit "slippery". One looks and sees, but another part of the mind says, “Impossible, and how could you possibly know for sure anyway!”

 

[SeaAndSky]

(Cont'd)


This was followed by much online research, but there is only so much that can be determined without going to archives and/or spending money, though I probably know as much about Vera Johnston at this point as anyone on the planet. On the other hand, the probative value of any further revelations I may receive may be—objectively speaking—tainted by my own investigation. As I look into my motivations in launching such an investigation, I have to wonder whether (1) I wanted to undermine my certainty about what I had experienced, or perhaps (2) that I had to do something, but not something that would risk the shock to my system that further regressions might bring. And now you know almost as much as I do . . . .

 

[tanguerra]

...I had the immediate certainty that I was looking at a photograph of myself. However, as many seem to note, these kinds of impressions and conclusions are a bit "slippery". One looks and sees, but another part of the mind says, “Impossible, and how could you possibly know for sure anyway!”

In our culture we are taught to be very suspicious of things like feelings and intuition and to trust only the rational, logical mind. But, in matters like this, I say trust your gut.


Can you show us the photo? Do you think it looks a little bit like you now? Maybe just the eyes or the expression? Maybe the shape of the brow and nose?

 

[tanguerra]

This was followed by much online research, but there is only so much that can be determined without going to archives and/or spending money, though I probably know as much about Vera Johnston at this point as anyone on the planet. On the other hand, the probative value of any further revelations I may receive may be—objectively speaking—tainted by my own investigation. As I look into my motivations in launching such an investigation, I have to wonder whether (1) I wanted to undermine my certainty about what I had experienced, or perhaps (2) that I had to do something, but not something that would risk the shock to my system that further regressions might bring. And now you know almost as much as I do . . . .

I usually counsel against doing too much research, especially early in the piece. It's too easy to taint what you might see in another regression or at least it will make you doubt yourself and whether you are just recalling something you've read.


What makes you think another regression will 'shock your system'?

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Tanguerra,I've tried to attach the photo. If it attached, it can be downloaded and blown up for further detail. In terms of resemblance: Yes, I very, very definitely see the resemblance, especially around the eyes, mouth and brow. It's also there overall, but only in a morphed feminine form. Basically, if I ran this image back to about 3-6 years old, she could have been my sister and possibly my twin at the same age. However, females and males obviously develop along different lines. At her age in the photo I already looked quite different with the usual brow and jaw differences plus a longer face/skull. Now, at 60, the difference is even greater. However, my shock at seeing the photo was part recognition of the type noted above, but it was also that intangible "intuitive" certainty you mention that--"this was me".In terms of regression shock: yes, I was definitely shocked. So much so that it has taken me several months to assimilate. I have used that time to do research into Christianity vis-a-vis reincarnation and to research reincarnation and regression practices (as well as Vera Johnston). I think I am ready for another session, but I don't think there is any way to discount what a blow this can be to existing paradigms. Also, quite frankly, I think I will be walking into some emotional mine fields as I undertake this endeavor. Once more partly intuition on my part, but partly the result of what others have said about their own experiences.



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[tanguerra]

Yes. I see. Sometimes people fool around with this stuff, not really believing it. Then they find out things and it does very strange things to their world view.


It is not uncommon for people to resemble their previous life selves. Why or how it works nobody knows, but it definitely seems to be something that happens. Perhaps the soul has a lot more to do with our appearance than we would think. It's not just all about genetics at all.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Actually, I wasn't fooling around, though I certainly might have done that at a much younger age. Like many here, I was trying to find answers to life issues and problems, some of them uncanny, that have seemed intractable and have been with me from a very early age. Reincarnation was one possible explanation, so I sought to explore it as such. However, this was not undertaken without a great deal of trepidation. I don't believe this kind of thing is a "parlor game"--and I was very concerned about the possibility that (1) we are merely tapping into some reservoir of memories, and/or (2) we are putting ourselves into a state where we can be, and are being, deceived by other beings that are hostile to our best interests, and/or (3) we are merely creating "false memories"--a known danger with hypnotic regression. In addition, there was the problem of assimilating this type of experience in view of my existing Christian religious beliefs.


In a word, there was a lot of online reading and research done before I tried this, and there has been even more since then trying to assimilate and understand what has happened and what it means in terms of myself and my world view. Nonetheless, even with preparation in advance, I still found it to be a shock. BTW--As a fairly cautious researcher/explorer, I have not totally discounted the possibility of (1)-(3), though I currently consider them to the less likely explanation. At this point, reincarnation is my working hypothesis.

 

[deborah]

Welcome SeaAndSky,


I am very interested in hearing about your experiences, do you have any emotional feelings regarding Vera (Zhelihovsky) Johnston, and her niece's husband Charles Johnston? I personally do not have any memories or associations with them, but I do find it fascinating that you possibly do.


I am intrigued by the way you articulate your thoughts, and express the possibilities. I do hope you share more.

 

[tanguerra]

However, this was not undertaken without a great deal of trepidation. I don't believe this kind of thing is a "parlor game"-

I didn't mean you in particular SeaAndSky I was speaking generally. Sorry for any misunderstanding. I can tell you are not undertaking all this just for 'kicks' or simple curiosity.

I was trying to find answers to life issues and problems, some of them uncanny, that have seemed intractable and have been with me from a very early age.

I'd be interested to hear about this if you feel comfortable sharing. There are many present life issues that people have that are resolved by discovering where their roots lie in past life experiences. There have been many instances on the forum of people resolving deep seated fears, anxieties and even health issues by doing this work. I think that's where the true value lies in doing this. I hope one day it will be more accepted into general counseling practices as a therapy that could help a lot of people. I think the benefits would be great. But, it would challenge the world view of a lot of people if they truly considered the fact that we are all immortal and have many lives to experience, there is no 'hell' and there is no 'heaven' and what we do in this life does matter, at the same time as it 'doesn't' really and we get more than one chance at things if we 'mess up'. The ramifications for human society would be huge.

I have not totally discounted the possibility of (1)-(3), though I currently consider them to the less likely explanation. At this point, reincarnation is my working hypothesis.

I think it's the simplest explanation and fits with the facts that we have.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Deborah and Tanguerra,


Thank you for your responses and interest. I actually wrote a fairly lengthy response on Friday to Deborah's post (before Tanguerra posted), but it was composed during breaks between work projects and phone calls over a few hours period. I was surprised to hit the post button and have it disappear to be replaced by a request that I log on again. I assume there must be some maximum length of time allowed before one is automatically logged off. Nonetheless, it was disconcerting to lose my work. I will be more cautious in the future. Unfortunately, I have been without time to re-post and it looks like I am heading into a hectic few days, but I had a few moments to write a quick comment to let you know that I am very glad to receive your comments, feedback and advice as I proceed in this matter, and hope to get back to you in the near future.


Cordially, SeaAndSky

 

[tanguerra]

How annoying! Yes, that's happened to me a few times. If I'm writing something really long, I'll copy it into a Word document or something just in case something goes wrong. Look forward to hearing from you when you have the time.

 

[argonne1918]

How annoying! Yes, that's happened to me a few times. If I'm writing something really long, I'll copy it into a Word document or something just in case something goes wrong. Look forward to hearing from you when you have the time.

That's a good idea to remember. When I'm composing a long email, I sometimes take breaks and come back. Yahoo email automatically saves drafts so I can go to that if need be.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Deborah and Tanguerra:


In terms of feelings re Vera and Charles Johnston, and in addition to the things I have already said regarding my reaction to the photograph previously referenced, I can say that I had no immediate feelings towards Vera’s mother or Olcott (who are also in the picture), but felt like the face of Vera’s husband Charles was very familiar. I kept thinking he looked like someone I have known during my lifetime. I have tried to think of exactly who, going through memory back to people in my High School, but that’s all I have at this point: a sense that this is a very familiar face, but without being able to put my finger on why it is familiar. Since then, I have developed an association between the images of Vera’s mother and Olcott, and my wife’s sister and her husband (i.e., my current sister-in-law and brother-in-law). I don’t know whether this is meaningful or not. There may be a very slight physical resemblance, but other than that, I can’t point to anything significant. However, since many say that you will often find the same folks in different roles in your current life, this may just be projection on my part.


In terms of my reaction to various things I have found out about Vera’s life since I began researching, I can see very definite connections. Taken individually, each could be merely coincidence. Taken as a whole, they are more convincing, but still cannot be seen as conclusive. I will seek to go into some of the similarities and connections at a later point, though frankly they will do little more than tell you about innate interests and tendencies that I have had or seemed to have throughout my life. There are definitely some uncanny similarities, and interestingly enough, no radical dissimilarities-i.e., no things that I know of that Vera liked or did that I find absolutely detestable or completely alien to my nature.


In terms of my reaction to “Vera” as a core of . . . “something” . . . memory, emotions, ideas, etc., that I seem to sense as a hidden room behind a locked door in my psyche, it is ambivalent at best. There are numerous reasons for this. Obviously, it is disconcerting to imagine myself as a female, and even more so to realize that the idea does not seem nearly as preposterous to me as it once would have seemed. Plus, this whole thing and the changes it seems to be bringing to my religious life and viewpoint also could prove extremely disruptive in terms of current relationships and family. I also seem to sense a tremendous reservoir of emotions tied up with and possibly held (despite some “leakage”) in check by the “lock” on that door in my psyche. Frankly, I am afraid to unlock it. Further, the presence of such hidden places in my psyche begs the question of what/who else might be hidden there. I would not have been surprised to find any evil imaginable to the untrammeled Id—each of us has our “Hyde”. Indeed, my religion teaches me to expect this. But I definitely find it difficult to cope with the idea of other “people” inhabiting my psyche, perhaps a multitude of such people. On top of these reasons, there is the shadow of what may be a very real possibility—being driven beyond what I can personally and emotionally cope with. I think Deborah has written very eloquently about the emotional burden of dealing with the traumatic memories and events that can come out this way in her journal. (I have also read the recent posts of another member who is struggling with these issues). I could go on, but you get the point. Add to these the possibility that I may not be able to disentangle myself from the persona that I allow myself to remember and identify with—a possibility that gives me even more concern in view of the brief episode of blurred kinesthesia I experienced after my regression experience—and you have a lot of reasons for not proceeding further in seeking to recover more memories.


(CONT'D)

 

[SeaAndSky]

(CONT'D FROM PRIOR POST):


Nonetheless, I have gone as far as I can go for the moment in terms of objective research into Vera’s life. There are many gaps, and most obviously, almost no information about her death. This has bothered me a great deal for some reason, and I have devoted a good deal of energy in trying to find out more. I have also devoted a fair amount of time to the area and field of current reincarnation research as well as updating myself generally on areas I have not been involved in for more than 30 years having to do with what is now being called “new age” subject matter—a fairly recent label. Finally, I have been driven into further research into Christian eschatology and have found doors opening into new understandings, research and theology that are revolutionary. I do not use that term loosely—Biblical Christianity is on the verge of a new Reformation in terms of eschatology, and there is already a theological battle going on outside of the view of the current pew sitter as well as those who occupy themselves elsewhere on Sundays. This could be the subject of further posts under another topic heading elsewhere on the board, but for now I will only note that the answers that are usually posted by “New Agers” on this subject are generally pretty simplistic.


So, adding it up: (1) I’m at a stopping point in terms of ordinary online research (though I have accumulated quite a bit of information); (2) I find the theological issues less problematic and more intriguing than dangerous at this point; (3) I’m more concerned about coping with what I uncover on a personal and family level than anything else, though the latter can probably be deferred as long as the former does not get out of hand; and (4) I still feel driven to find out more. That means that I’m probably going to open the door to more “subjective” research shortly. The question now is what methodology to use: (a) another online regression video; (b) emotional tracking of some touchy subject matter; and/or © some type of heart meditation of the type I found when tracking through some of the links in Tanguerra’s recent posts on her life as Carol. The first (a) has the virtue of having been personally tried in the past with some success. The second (b) grows out of Deborah’s report on how her most recent regressions were pursued as well as some personal experiences I have had recently. The third © connects up with some meditation practices that I am familiar with from Christian sources, so that is some recommendation. Your thoughts on which of these would be best would be appreciated.


Cordially,


SeaAndSky


PS—I had a “flash” of memory or an image after my regression that I didn’t previously report. It was of being a young lady on the seat of a buckboard or other wagon of some sort with a man driving. I was feeling very bereft (like an orphan I thought at the time). I later found out that Vera lost her father in her mid-teens. Also, I recently had a flash that might indicate a very sudden death. Without discounting the possibility that the flash was figurative and may even have to do with my current life, I had the impression of sudden shock and the image of something large coming at me quickly. It is almost like barely having the chance to register what is happening before being hit by a train or other vehicle. But as noted, it may mean something completely different.

 

[Mere Dreamer]

I've been through the world-view change, so I know how that can shake you up. I've stopped talking theology with conservative believers because fearful people throw around the word heretic like the ultimate shield of protection.


I'll share a few elements I've found reassuring along the way. They might give you hope as you progress.


1. The Spirit is very interactive, real, and alive. If you ask (and even if you don't, but you will notice more often when you ask) you will have a guardian with you while facing these challenges. The still small voice is very much available now, just as it was in the old stories.


2. While doing the heart-based meditation Tanguerra mentions, it is quite easy to put filters on the type of content you are willing to encounter. (This can later create odd gaps and strange bridges to sort through.)


I know for a fact that my mind has skipped over rape, then filled in the gap with a vague "felt threatened and decided to go somewhere else" and then keys back into the actual memory on the other side of the dangerous emotional event. I didn't figure this out until my best friend, who shares the same memory from another perspective, filled in that element from her own dreams. Now that I know the "glitches" it's easier to realize once I wake up, because I'm going, "Why was I afraid and then suddenly somewhere else hiding and planning to run?" A few times the answer has been a brief summary of events, as reported after the fact, without needing to go through the experience.


3. You can step out of the memories anytime. When you don't know what you're dealing with and what your resources are it's difficult to realize that you have options you haven't used yet. Deep breathing, centering, and a brief conversation with your spiritual guide/guardian to help bring your mind back to the present.


Give yourself permission (and the privacy) to weep, though you can always tell family that you had an intense dream. My family is willing to discuss "dreams" so I tend to use those terms if I mention my experiences at all.


Write out the experience, and analyse what you have learned from it, and how it might make a difference to your world view in this life. This gives you emotional space and allows the lesson to sink in, making the original memory less sharp and helping with recovery.


Often the only way to get through something is to face its reality. The idea of it is nearly always far, far more intimidating than it's actual effect.


Truth is always strong enough to survive being crushed along with all the lies. Like wheat, it remains and the rest shatters to dust on the wind. I've found so many truths that shine far more brightly once the crust of additional, constraining elements are broken away.


wellllllcome May you find the gift that is the journey, and the peace that comes with far greater light within uncertainty than it ever gave during the times you thought you knew the answers.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Thank you for your reply and good advice Mere Dreamer. I think you have given me several good ideas. BTW--I don't know what the fracas was about vis-a-vis "conservative believers" (a group in which I would probably be included by most people), but I will say that it is probable that they (like you) are trying to serve God as best they can (or know). They may be mis-advised and mis-taught on a variety of issues. Hence, their "knowledge" may be flawed. However, it doesn't necessarily mean their hearts are not--so to speak--in the right place. Of course, that doesn't excuse behavior that goes beyond what is loving and charitable, but that is another issue and goes to the question of whether their hearts ARE in the right place.


Cordially, SeaAndSky

 

[argonne1918]

I've been through the world-view change, so I know how that can shake you up. I've stopped talking theology with conservative believers because fearful people throw around the word heretic like the ultimate shield of protection.

Some people are proud to be called "Heretic". Always bet your money on heretics. They are always proven to be correct. But it may take 50-100 years.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Argonne,


Well, I wouldn't say "always right"--many are just plain kooks. However, it is true that almost everyone that ever battled the entrenched (a term you can identify with) ideas of the day to come up with some significantly different and revolutionary advance have been considered a heretic at some point.


Or, to put it another way: All grass is green (all true innovators tend to be initially considered to be heretics). But not all green is grass (all heretics are not necessary true innovators).


Cordially, SeaAndSky

 

[Mere Dreamer]

I don't know what the fracas was about vis-a-vis "conservative believers" (a group in which I would probably be included by most people), but I will say that it is probable that they (like you) are trying to serve God as best they can (or know). They may be mis-advised and mis-taught on a variety of issues. Hence, their "knowledge" may be flawed. However, it doesn't necessarily mean their hearts are not--so to speak--in the right place. Of course, that doesn't excuse behavior that goes beyond what is loving and charitable, but that is another issue and goes to the question of whether their hearts ARE in the right place.
Cordially, SeaAndSky

Thank you. I do understand (to an extent) why they respond that way, hence the description of them as afraid rather than using the term "hateful" or other more aggressive judgments. People live what they believe, and are controlled by doctrinal stances against their better judgement sometimes. It's rather odd having someone near tears because they feel I am "forcing them" to reject and abuse me ... by seeing God as more humane than they can imagine.


I call anyone who fears walking outside the commonly accepted limits "conservative" because they stay as close to the center as they can, even if it means destroying questions and blinding themselves to God-given insight in the process. That you are seriously exploring this question makes you more of an inspired visionary than a conservative, in my opinion. But you are using the word one way, and I another.


I began by fearing the darkness, until I realized that the light is a gift set within, which shines out upon all that we encounter. That is the presence of the Spirit, and this presence is the way we learn to see in the dark, to notice our blindness,... and to discern the difference between true light and the idea of light. I'm glad my "story" helped a little.

 

[Mere Dreamer]

However, it is true that almost everyone that ever battled the entrenched (a term you can identify with) ideas of the day to come up with some significantly different and revolutionary advance have been considered a heretic at some point.

This made me think of Rob Bell. If you haven't read last year's blog series tracing these sorts of revolutions throughout the Bible, then you may find it interesting. I enjoy his approach to the topic, though I don't always see the world as he does. This link is to the first installment, and I believe most of his posts will directly link to the next so you can read it like a book.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Mere Dreamer and thank you for your comments.


I think the issue with being a "conservative" is whether you are (1) seeking to conserve the original inspiration, whatever it is, or (2) seeking to conserve the accretion of dogma, rules and opinion that grows up after, and is ostensibly based on, the original inspiration. In terms of Christianity, not all of this accretion is bad, and much of it is good and necessary, but it still represents the "tradition of men" that cannot be allowed to nullify the word of God. Unfortunately, tradition eventually tends to obscure revelation and becomes mistaken for it by most believers. Hence, people of good will who actually seek to be true and faithful to God's revelation often end up defending and "conserving" something quite different and sometimes antithetical to God's original revelation. (E.g., The Pharisees catch some fairly pointed criticism in the New Testament for doing this).


Anyhow, in this context, the "tradition of men" means the accretion and growth of dogma and theology around the original Biblical revelation. A large part of this is good, valid and vital in my opinion. But some of it--especially in the field of eschatology--is way off base (once again in my opinion). That is why I, and many others, are re-examining the word of God and seeking a clearer understanding based on and in the word and not in the traditions of men.


BTW--you should not mistake what I am interested in for what is generally known as "liberal" theology. What I am talking about insists on a better understanding of what the Word actually is and says. Liberal theology merely ignores or nullifies the Word where it conflicts with current ideas, especially where scripture is deemed to conflict with liberal ideology and political correctness. There are a variety of rationales posited for this type of thing, but ultimately (and whatever the motives may be) I believe it to be, at the least, destructive and to yield more harm than good.


Cordially, SeaAndSky


PS--I'm somewhat familiar with Rob Bell, though I have not read his books. I know he kicked up a firestorm recently by going against settled positions and advocating a variety of universalism. I think the reaction was unjustified based on scripture, but serves as a good example of a "knee jerk" reactionary response seeking to "conserve" current doctrine (just what we are talking about).

 

[SeaAndSky]

I suppose an update here is advisable, especially since I could use some advice.


I tried another regression via Dr. Weiss (on Youtube), and got nowhere. However, I had already read and been intrigued by Deborah’s account of her recent regression sessions without any form of hypnosis or autohypnosis just by, more or less, having Carol Browne take her along a trail of strong emotions that were, apparently, tied in with a past life. I tried something like this and it worked a bit too well, once again leading to a “shut down” impulse on my part (somewhat similar to what happened in the blurred kinesthesia episode following my last Youtube regression attempt).


In terms of background, Deborah has written in her journal about our current lives being, at least sometime, the result of an intense wish/decision to be something different from what we were before—especially when this impulse comes as part of a dying wish or determination on our part. In Deborah’s relevant past life, she was a white male who became part of a mistreated Indian tribe, and who determined at the time of death that “he” did not want to be a white male any more. The result of this decision and aggrieved renunciation of white maleness appears to have been a very difficult PL as a black female during the 1800s. It occurred to me, based on what Deborah had written, that: I may have taken a similar attitude towards being female in my putative female PL (resulting in my current male life), and also resulting in what I recognize now to be a lifelong antipathy to the idea of being female myself. This does not mean that I reject or have any animosity towards females. In fact, after passing through the awkwardness of adolescence, I was always able to get along with women very well (and have felt like I understand and empathize with them very well). I have always liked women and wanted to be chivalrous and courteous towards them, I just did not want to be one of the opposite sex myself (which is not an unnatural sentiment for either sex).


Nonetheless, I recently started a thread on the subject of cross-gender incarnation, voicing my difficulty with the issue. I also continued to dwell from time-to-time on the idea that I might have reacted to and rejected femaleness in my PL. A few days back, while considering the reasons why being female could have seemed like a very negative thing to me in my PL, I suddenly found myself thinking in a quite emotional way about all the reasons I did not want to be female or might not have wanted to be female in a PL. The situation escalated a lot more quickly than I expected with all kinds of thoughts on the subject passing through my mind in rapid succession and ever increasing levels of emotion building while I felt myself feeling more and more like an extremely aggrieved and emotional female who very definitely felt the burden and pain of being female in her life and world. (Don’t ask me how I know I was feeling things in a feminine manner. Actually, I think those who have some contact with cross-gender PLs will not have any problem understanding what I mean by this). Also, don’t criticize my lack of an up-to-date feminist mind-set. I’ve always been a bit Victorian (as was my putative PL), and my thoughts and emotions did not have anything to do with more modern sensibilities in this area. They were, in fact, more like the emotions and thoughts of someone from an earlier era. I found myself rather quickly on the verge of tears and reacted to shut the thing that was happening down before it could get more out of hand.


(CONT'D)

 

[SeaAndSky]

(CONT'D from prior post)


So, where does this leave me? The results I get when I get significant results at all have been a bit too strong for comfort. They also have some element of losing control that concerns me: I have a lot of duties to fulfill and I cannot afford to let this kind of thing disrupt my life. However, like many on this board my life is already somewhat disrupted and I don’t know that I can go back any more easily than I can go forward at this point. My biggest concern is that I don’t really 100% know what I am getting into. I recently responded to another thread by a channeler who was not certain whether he was channeling or remembering a PL. It is a real issue. I feel like I am slipping into an alternate identity when I feel my sense of my body (kinesthesia) or emotions blurring into those of another person (whether that person is my own prior self or somebody/something else). I even worry about possession.


Anyway, at this point, I cannot logically deny the possibility that I was merely indulging in a male thought train about the negatives of being female (from the standpoint of a male), but though it may have started out that way, it seemed to quickly morph into something quite different where I was getting very emotional about and expanding on the topic (from the standpoint of a female, and certainly not one with a modern mindset). So, where do I go from here? I’m not certain I could recapture and repeat what happened again. Given my inability to effectively do the Youtube regression thing more than once, I am concerned that my subconscious mind may act to shut down each route that proves effective, making further progress down this particular trail unavailable. On the other hand, I don’t know if I can stop trying—I just wish I knew how to be sure I wasn’t going to get in over my head without intending to do so.

 

[John Tat]

Hi SeaAndSky


You talk at about past life memories, what they may or may not mean, blocked and selective memory of previous lives and so on. I was wondering what are the basics of your beliefs?.


As we all know the physical body dies along with the physical brain, so where do you believe past live memories are stored? Are they as many believe "soul memory" and if they are soul memories is the soul and physical us one and the same or are they separate but connected? If past life memories are soul memories how does the soul convey those memories to the physical brain or is there no need because they are one and the same? If they are one and the same or even connected then our souls have very little capacity If this is how it works the soul communications with the physical brain are at best extremely limited and at worst almost non existent There may be a reason for this...


Does soul memory work in the same manner physical memory does? If it doesn't then the soul and physical brain are not compatible If it does work in the same manner as the physical brain then we would all be totally different to what we are


Where does your spirit (I call it my pure self) fit into all of this?


Is your physical self, spirit and soul all the one or are they all separate but connected? Does you spirit have memory? If it does, has it greater capacity of remembering memory that the soul does. That is if soul does have memory?


When you die what reincarnates. Your soul or spirit or both? Do you believe the physical body and identity dies never to return?


If our physical body and identity dies never to return then what in the hell are we all looking for?


Does your soul and spirit have physical identity? If they don't then past lives have no meaning after the physical body dies


These questions only scratch the surface of how vast your knowledge and understanding has to be to even begin a journey of discovery

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi John,


I don’t have answers to all of your questions, partly because I don’t know and partly because many are framed using words like “soul” and “spirit” that are shifty and changing depending on who is using them. However, I can give you some of my background and thoughts on the matter. (You are free to skip the background and go directly to the numbered paragraphs, since they pertain more directly to the questions asked—I just include the background to let you know that I have been thinking about these things for a long time).


In terms of background, I can recall what I took to be at the time (and still take to be) a very strong encounter with Christ at around 5 years old. This doesn’t mean I became a saint, in fact I was also drawn to Science Fiction in a very strong way as well, which tended to promote a variety of atheistic scientism during the 60s and probably still does. This drew me towards a more secular and agnostic mindset. At the same time, I had a lot of questions that I didn’t seem to be able to answer via either science or through my local Church (and may have been afraid to ask in the latter case). I discovered the occult, religious and mystical section of the municipal library where I lived at about 12 and dove in full force, moving radically in that direction. Over the years between about 12 and 24 I explored non-Abrahamic world religions with an emphasis on the far East and India, with meditation and some hatha yoga (which was definitely not “mainstream” like it is now). I was a fairly dedicated practitioner of Transcendental Meditation for around 5 years during that time, and also experimented with Astral travel and a variety of other things. I reaffirmed my Christian faith at around 25 and have been heavily involved in that path of spiritual growth as a layman for the last 35 years, though I am still definitely no saint. (I also picked up a BS in Physics, a law degree, a wife, five children, and some grandchildren while all of this was going on—but these are probably not relevant to your questions). Anyhow, I go through this just to let you know that my past experience is varied and has not been solely restricted to a single faith throughout my life. In fact, over the last year or so, my own issues regarding a possible past life have caused me to open up to a whole variety of things I had left behind for decades and to strive to update my knowledge while trying to understand how these could fit together with my Christian faith, which I have not abandoned. My conclusions are basically that the faith handed down took some wrong turns at an earlier point in its history. (Much of this will be corrected by what looks like another “Reformation” that is currently brewing, but that is much to detailed a subject to broach here and probably not of much interest to you anyway).


(CONT'D)

 

[SeaAndSky]

(CONT'D FROM ABOVE)


Getting back to your questions, I can say two things:


(1) Most of the more esoteric teachings I have reviewed seem to posit at least 3 and possibly more “bodies” through which we live and interact with our surroundings at different levels or “planes” of being. The term “body” is used in a very broad and general manner to indicate something (a) circumscribed in terms of its abilities, location and perceptions; and (b) with which we are identified on a certain plane and through which we act on that plane of being (with the physical body serving merely as an example on the physical plane). Generally speaking, it appears that “higher” bodies are immersed in and generally circumscribed by the scope of abilities, location and perceptions offered by the lower bodies they inhabit, but I’m a bit fuzzy on all of this and there are probably better sources if you want to explore these matters further. Nonetheless, this viewpoint seems a good enough place to start in terms of figuring out how these things work. From this standpoint, we are generally limited in this life to acting and knowing through the physical body, but there are possibilities for survival beyond death as well as for accessing and tapping into sources of power, knowledge and perception inherent in and preserved at a higher level “body”. Thinking along these lines at least gives me a working hypothesis, though I’m not fully bought into anything 100% at this point. If you have counter theories, I’d be happy to give them thought—like I said—I’m not totally committed to anything and just trying to find the ideas that seem to best fit what people seem to experience.


(2) A lot of what you have reported, including the sense that part of you is elsewhere seems to be something straight out of the writings of Dr. Michael Newton. I am not sure you are familiar with him, but he is most known for concentrating on what goes on between lives rather than what goes on during lives—putting him in a very different area than most of what is talked about on a board like this and by other authors. Newton uses the term “soul” in a general sense for the ultimate “me” or person, and it is apparently always resident in some manner and to some degree elsewhere (at a much “higher” plane which is its true home), though it extends a portion of itself (attention, energy, or ? something) into the process of incarnation. More advanced souls can, in fact, cope with more than one incarnation at the same time. You’d probably like his writing as well because it is what I would call profound while being “non-religious”—which doesn’t mean that there are not religious implications and aspects from my standpoint. However, there is nothing like what you are apparently reacting against in this life, so I think you would not be uncomfortable. I have read two of his books, and I think they should be read in order. Also, I think what I have said in (1) can be put together with (2), but that can probably be saved for later.


Cordially,


SeaAndSky

 

[John Tat]

Hi SeaAndSky


Some of what you talked about I can relate to in my beliefs


I could write 100 pages even more on what I believe and why the following is the very basic concepts


I believe we are three separate identities in one, but connected. The physical us, the pure us or spiritual us or whatever you want to call it, and our souls


The pure me is the real me, the me that reincarnates along with my soul. The physical body dies never to return


The pure me has its own memory, separate from the physical brain, although it gathers its memory from the experiences of the physical body.


Through my travels I have come to understand that previous lives is not what the pure me is all about. While a previous life of mine that I have talked about on this forum is important it's not what it's all about


The pure me is only concerned about future incarnations and preparing and educating himself for having greater influence on future physical identities


I believe it is possible for our pure self over I don't know how many incarnations to go to another level of existence and have total control over the physical body and brain. In other words the pure me could live each physical life just as the physical us does now.


As I have said before on this forum all of this looking back at previous incarnations has little or no relevance to what it's all about. Future incarnations and improving our pure self is what it's all about. The trick is for our pure self to reincarnate retaining vivid memories of it's last incarnation I've been working on that for years


That is a very basic idea of what I believe in