It used to be that we thought we had a good handle on how to birth and raise a successful human being. It was nature plus nurture. That's it. Now we learn there's a random soul that dives into our baby. We can't control it, we can't ask for a good one, and in fact we may get a bad soul. How does everyone feel about having a family when you can't control that 3rd huge effect?
Nature, nurture, and now a Soul?
- Thread starter spacely
- Start date
I notice the word 'random' here. I wonder how that choice of description was arrived at? In many cases there seems to be reincarnation within the same family group. That hardly constitutes randomness. Not all cases are of this type, but there may still be an underlying pattern or significance to the way things happen. At any rate I personally don't have any certainty about these things, only hints from what the evidence tells us.
Also, since it is mentioned that the baby has this soul, it also should be recognised that we too have our own souls. Thus what happens in the physical may be somewhat different to how our souls would perceive and understand things. For example during a near-death experience a person may have a life review, and see, feel and understand events in their own life from a different perspective. That's what I mean when I suggest that the perspective of the soul may be different to that of the physical. Of course NDEs are a whole other topic, worthy of study in its own right, but somewhat outside the scope of this forum.
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi Spacely,
Multiple kids here and from a family with multiple kids. You don't control it. We never did control it. All you have to work with is the "nurture" aspect of things, and the answer here is the same no matter what: you do your best taking the nature, talents, disposition, etc. of your child into account.
However, from what I can tell from the general literature in this field, people tend to come back in fairly close proximity to other members of their soul group, and often and repeatedly in a single or extended family. So, mostly, when it comes to the "soul" aspect of the equation, you will be getting people who you "know" at the deepest level and have been incarnating with repeatedly in the past.
Cordially,
S&S
Multiple kids here and from a family with multiple kids. You don't control it. We never did control it. All you have to work with is the "nurture" aspect of things, and the answer here is the same no matter what: you do your best taking the nature, talents, disposition, etc. of your child into account.
However, from what I can tell from the general literature in this field, people tend to come back in fairly close proximity to other members of their soul group, and often and repeatedly in a single or extended family. So, mostly, when it comes to the "soul" aspect of the equation, you will be getting people who you "know" at the deepest level and have been incarnating with repeatedly in the past.
Cordially,
S&S
Cyrus
Senior Registered
Hi, S&S:
Sounds moving, but what about "spiritual evolution" and "trying something different in each reincarnation"?
In biology it's called inbreeding or incest, if I'm not mistaken. The European aristocracy (and earlier, the Egyptian pharaonic dynasties) are good examples of what this leads to: the general (intellectual and physical) degeneration.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/habsburg-jaw.
IMHO.
Best regards.
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi Cyrus,
I think we're talking about different things. I didn't mean the same family as in generation after generation in the Jones or Cordova family inbreeding with other members of the same family. I meant that (if what I have read is correct) "souls" tend to come into contact with each other in each lifetime, and were often found as relatives family wise--brother, sister, father, mother, child, cousin, . . .
In one round that family might be the Yings in California, in another the Borgias in Italy, in another . . . .
So, no biological inbreeding across multiple generations is implied.
Cordially,
S&S
PS--Wow! That is some ugly jawline.
Poor girl. I hope her royal lifetime and bloodline was worth the genetic price she paid.
I think we're talking about different things. I didn't mean the same family as in generation after generation in the Jones or Cordova family inbreeding with other members of the same family. I meant that (if what I have read is correct) "souls" tend to come into contact with each other in each lifetime, and were often found as relatives family wise--brother, sister, father, mother, child, cousin, . . .
In one round that family might be the Yings in California, in another the Borgias in Italy, in another . . . .
So, no biological inbreeding across multiple generations is implied.
Cordially,
S&S
PS--Wow! That is some ugly jawline.
Poor girl. I hope her royal lifetime and bloodline was worth the genetic price she paid.
Cyrus
Senior Registered
Hi Cyrus,
I think we're talking about different things. I didn't mean the same family as in generation after generation in the Jones or Cordova family inbreeding with other members of the same family. I meant that (if what I have read is correct) "souls" tend to come into contact with each other in each lifetime, and were often found as relatives family wise--brother, sister, father, mother, child, cousin, . . .
In one round that family might be the Yings in California, in another the Borgias in Italy, in another . . . .
So, no biological inbreeding across multiple generations is implied.
Cordially,
S&S
PS--Wow! That is some ugly jawline.
How complicated. Are you sure that's what really takes place?
To tell the truth, I don't really believe in this stuff of soul groups and the like.
IMHO.
Very best.
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There and back again
Senior Member
Once again materialist thinking proves to be completely pointless in this area and one has to wonder why people keep up these lines of thinking despite there being decades of recent material to prove otherwise. Anyway as for the "random" soul yea there really is no control over that unless there were prior agreements made before one's current incarnation usually as part of a soul group or more commonly understood family reincarnations where past relatives come back as the kids.
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi Cyrus,
Michael Newton makes everything seem so nice and neat, with soul groups and a cosmic bureaucracy (or at least educational system) that manages us and guides us in groups through multiple lifetimes on the way to great wisdom, benevolence, etc. etc. There are others who also explore these matters, the findings of most seem to be somewhat similar to those of Newton, but there are some (a distinct minority) who seem to think the system is a giant conspiracy of some kind. They shout, "don't go to the Light, its a trap!"
To my mind the last sound a lot like the Hippies of my long ago memories, "Don't go to work or school, turn on, tune in, and drop out!" Some are even grimmer in their interpretation of the supposed system by which we return again and again. Of course, the number of opinions floating around would probably fill the next several pages. However, I agree with one aspect of the conspiracy theory. I believe there is, in fact, a "conspiracy" going on. Otherwise, why the memory block.
The only question in terms of "conspiracy" is whether we're also members of the conspiracy, accepting it and participating in it gladly as a necessary and beneficial prerequisite for getting the most out of the process. Maybe so. When I had surgery I gladly went under anesthesia so that I would not remember anything that happened while they were doing what needed to be done (or afterwards!). So, complete consciousness of what's going on at the time or what happened in the past certainly ain't always the best IMO. Still, I retain a degree of skepticism.
The big problem is putting all the data together. The reincarnation researchers, the OOBE reports, and the NDE reports all need to be integrated to see if they form a coherent whole. This is something I have yet to do, though I am just starting on a re-read of Robert Monroe's "Journeys out of the Body"--a work I last read 40+ years ago, but is still a very good read.
Cordially,
S&S
Michael Newton makes everything seem so nice and neat, with soul groups and a cosmic bureaucracy (or at least educational system) that manages us and guides us in groups through multiple lifetimes on the way to great wisdom, benevolence, etc. etc. There are others who also explore these matters, the findings of most seem to be somewhat similar to those of Newton, but there are some (a distinct minority) who seem to think the system is a giant conspiracy of some kind. They shout, "don't go to the Light, its a trap!"
To my mind the last sound a lot like the Hippies of my long ago memories, "Don't go to work or school, turn on, tune in, and drop out!" Some are even grimmer in their interpretation of the supposed system by which we return again and again. Of course, the number of opinions floating around would probably fill the next several pages. However, I agree with one aspect of the conspiracy theory. I believe there is, in fact, a "conspiracy" going on. Otherwise, why the memory block.
The only question in terms of "conspiracy" is whether we're also members of the conspiracy, accepting it and participating in it gladly as a necessary and beneficial prerequisite for getting the most out of the process. Maybe so. When I had surgery I gladly went under anesthesia so that I would not remember anything that happened while they were doing what needed to be done (or afterwards!). So, complete consciousness of what's going on at the time or what happened in the past certainly ain't always the best IMO. Still, I retain a degree of skepticism.
The big problem is putting all the data together. The reincarnation researchers, the OOBE reports, and the NDE reports all need to be integrated to see if they form a coherent whole. This is something I have yet to do, though I am just starting on a re-read of Robert Monroe's "Journeys out of the Body"--a work I last read 40+ years ago, but is still a very good read.
Cordially,
S&S
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SeekerOfKnowledge
Learner
I don't think it's random. There are reports of people who remember choosing their parents.
You have zero control of what soul with choose the body of your child, of course.
But then, you also can't control the future of your child. You may want the best (or what you think is the best), but your child will not always agree with you. All you can do is to give your child the love they deserve and support them to your best ability.
As for the amnesia, it has advantages and disadvantages and whether remembering would be helpful or a hindrance also depends on the situation in my opinion.
For people who suffer from "mental illness" which was caused by some unresolved PL stuff or PL trauma, it would be better to remember the cause of the trauma so they can deal with the source of the problem.
It also would make things way easier if we knew what me "missed"/"failed at" in a PL so that this time around we could avoid repeating the same "mistake" (which we may repeat over and over and over until... somehow a memory leaks through or something suddenly makes us change the way we see things) and handle situations in a different way.
But then, maybe it's not supposed to be easy. Maybe we're "supposed" to figure out which is the best way to live our current lives without knowing what happened before? For what reason ever.
All the theories out there probably only are thought models anyway, the attempt to describe something beyond human understanding in such a way that our brains can grasp it. So I wouldn't take these theories and explanations all too literally. What's really out there probably can't be put into words and human logic properly.
You have zero control of what soul with choose the body of your child, of course.
But then, you also can't control the future of your child. You may want the best (or what you think is the best), but your child will not always agree with you. All you can do is to give your child the love they deserve and support them to your best ability.
As for the amnesia, it has advantages and disadvantages and whether remembering would be helpful or a hindrance also depends on the situation in my opinion.
For people who suffer from "mental illness" which was caused by some unresolved PL stuff or PL trauma, it would be better to remember the cause of the trauma so they can deal with the source of the problem.
It also would make things way easier if we knew what me "missed"/"failed at" in a PL so that this time around we could avoid repeating the same "mistake" (which we may repeat over and over and over until... somehow a memory leaks through or something suddenly makes us change the way we see things) and handle situations in a different way.
But then, maybe it's not supposed to be easy. Maybe we're "supposed" to figure out which is the best way to live our current lives without knowing what happened before? For what reason ever.
All the theories out there probably only are thought models anyway, the attempt to describe something beyond human understanding in such a way that our brains can grasp it. So I wouldn't take these theories and explanations all too literally. What's really out there probably can't be put into words and human logic properly.
One thing I learned in the present life. I started having dreams which seemed to be, indeed were precognitive. I could see a little way into the future - at least in generalised terms. But I started to make a mess of things, I caused harm to myself and to others because I was self-consciously trying to bring things about, to make things happen.
After that I had another dream, a message from some sort of guides, letting me know that from that point on I would be given less detail and foreknowledge of things to come, because it was simply confusing me. Going forward from there, I realised eventually, all I had to do was just be myself, relax and stop being concerned about tomorrow - and to just enjoy things. After a while some of the things which I'd foreseen did happen, good things, but they came from a completely unexpected direction.
It turns out that it is easy after all. One just has to be oneself. I think there are no benefits from doing what might be considered "the right thing" if one does it self-consciously or to score points. It only counts when we are just our natural selves. Being true to oneself.
Cyrus
Senior Registered
Michael Newton is awesome, without any doubt.
But I'm just a simple guy - very simple, and if anybody prefers to put it all in terms of soul groups - d'accordo, I don't mind !
I have it quite clear where mine is.
"But how do the sailors do"
Well, I'm not really able to comment on current painful events. My perspective there is that there are always good and bad things happening, daily, weekly, year by year. I suppose it is only in the present that we are in a position to change things - for the better one would hope. Other than that, I take a very long-term perspective.
Though that wasn't really what I wanted to talk about. What does strike me about your way of describing things @spacely , is a kind of disconnected or fragmented view of what it means to be human. When I say fragmented, let me put it like this - just as a kind of illustration. When I think of myself, I just think of me, who I am, at every level from the superficial surface appearance to what I feel and know deep inside. I take all of that and consider it as a whole, that is how I think of 'me'. All of myself, together, whole.
But when I hear you talk of the soul, it is more like this: imagine standing in front of a mirror. Looking into the glass there is a reflection, it looks like a person, looks just as real as anyone else. But there is a strange thing. When I move my hand or raise my arm, the person behind the glass moves in exactly the same way. My every movement and gesture is copied. So which one is in control? Does the person behind the glass decide to raise his arm and I am forced to move my arm in an identical fashion? Which of the two is in charge of this situation?
Sometimes when I read of how you view the soul it seems from my point of view that you seem to have decided that you are the person behind the mirror. That is, you have no control, you are obliged to move like a puppet in response to the antics of the peculiar being on this side of the glass. Because of that, you feel you have no control, but are being manipulated by this mysterious 'soul'. My suggestion is that you have misunderstood the relationship. In fact you are the one on this side of the glass, you make the decisions, you are in charge.
Well, I've no idea whether that is helpful or just nonsense, but I'm trying to find a way to express how I understand things.
There and back again
Senior Member
I would say that it was scripted in from the start through the soul contracts and the life scripts by those running the show, the common lie told on the other side that it is for learning and to repay karma even though it is neither of those things as such only serves to traumatize souls rather than being of any good. Such things are not normal and just don't happen on their own as for free will much have that has been stripped away in this reality through the soul contracts so people are often at the mercy of agreements they have no memory of making much less being aware enough to cancel them. It is a sad thing for all those directly affected as this will stick with them for life time after life time often without remembering yet having an affect on their future lives for which they'll have no answer to while being left holding the bag.
What I meant was, the world had the bin Laden experience because a specific Soul was installed into Bin Laden baby from the start. You have soul plus nature plus nurture. Now you put a different soul into the same baby and you get a radically different experience. Who's pulling those strings and dictating which Soul goes into which baby? And do they know in advance the result? We are at their Mercy.
Cyrus
Senior Registered
Hi, spacely:
We are at nobody's mercy but our own. It's all here on Earth.
A soul alone does NOT determine fully its behaviour, it cannot be totally independent of the environment.
The simplest example is the individual's death: you won't affirm, I hope, that when one dies, it's always because his/her soul so wishes?
It's the environment. Otherwise it's called suicide.
The consequences of people's actions here on Earth come back to us, like it or not.
In one of Michael Newton's books it is said that in very exceptional cases of a very cruel soul, such a soul can be kind of "disassembled" when in LBL.
New souls are produced in LBL all the time, according to the same book, but they are NOT pre-programmed to be bin Ladens or Hitlers or anybody else.
Some random mechanism determines the nature of a concrete soul, but nobody can know everything about its future inclinations beforehand.
Something like this.
IMHO.
Regards.
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In Michael Newton's book, I recall Elder Souls showing sneak previews of future life possibilities. If they can see the future, with specific soul in a specific body, then they can manipulate that information to get an outcome in our civilization.
Surely each soul is unique enough to bring a different recipe to the nature-nurture combination. So it really does matter which Soul you put into each body. Otherwise what is a soul good for, in the reincarnation process?
Cyrus
Senior Registered
They can manipulate a single soul in its specific body till they are blue in the face - the environment is out of their reach and has a final say upon the outcome of any action of that manipulated individual.
Sneak previews are great, but the environment is too multiparameter to control it, and however well you equip your individual with a manipulated soul, you'll never know what environment is awaiting it out there at any given moment of its future.
IMHO.
Regs.