Pleased to meet you all and any Cathars!

Discussion in 'Past Life Memories' started by Valerian, Aug 29, 2005.

  1. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Registered

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    I second and third that, to all who feel called, please join us. So very much is possible..
     
  2. Speedwell

    Speedwell Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Which time zone please?
     
  3. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Registered

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    It will be this Friday night, 1:00am ET. (please note that is actually falls right after midnight into Saturday). We chose this time slot so it would be available for anyone, no matter which time zone. What I love anout this is that no one has to be online, nor join a podcast, nothing. No matter where someone is they should be able to find a comfortable place to tune in. Thanks so much for being part of this initiative!
     
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  4. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    The UK is 5 hours ahead of the U.S. East coast, so that would make it 6:00 a.m. on Saturday morning in the UK.
     
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  5. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Registered

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    https://ibb.co/rHhSwp6
    (you may have to copy and paste into a browser)

    I hope my link works, I have never saved something to a url. This is a painting I did several years ago to try to capture the dichotomy I feel inside. Above, the white light/mist coming down around the mountains is that which is pure elevated thought, your highest self. Beneath are 2 towers, rigid, unyeilding, cold, representing intolerence, retribution and the need to pass judgement. The people burning are my tribute to all who suffered in history this way. The white mist wraps around but does not meet the structures. By conjoined meditation, we can bridge that gap. By combined energy we can to let that roll through an endless night and descend softly on all the rough edges of the state of affairs we live in.
     
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  6. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Registered

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    We tried to get a time either before or after someones day. A time where they may have quiet time. Once its during day or later, good chance some may be at work, driving home, dinner, etc.
     
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  7. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Registered

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    htpps://ibb.co/Mgr3qnj

    This is when all is at rest and all the turmoil of a day begins to close its eyes
     
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  8. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Kaye,

    Beautiful paintings! Thanks for posting these.

    Cordially,
    S&S

    BTW--the URL on the sunset painting should be https rather than htpps.
     
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  9. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Registered

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    For anyone who has not heard the Consolament in Occitan, this is really nice. It is not the entire Consolament, but a portion of it.
     
  10. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi All,

    I came across some great biting but humorous videos on Youtube about the suppression of Catharism.

    The first video gives a humorous view of the Catholic response to the MENACE OF CATHARISM! in the guise of the type of "Duck and Cover" cartoons that were supposed to teach people how to respond during a Nuclear War (but were actually laughably ineffective if a nuke was actually about to come down):



    The second video below is the full video, incorporates the previous video, and covers the topic with many fairly recent cultural references (from a historical perspective) that many here may nonetheless find opaque. I.e.: the Cathar vs. Catholic debates uses Kennedy vs. Nixon actors; The inquisition is presented using McCarthy era formats; a Barbara Walters equivalent interviews various characters, including a murderous Crusader from Northern France; local law enforcement is represented by Sheriff Andy & Deputy Barney Fife stand-ins, etc. There is even a game show. The intent may seem humorous, but it doesn't spare the gruesome details. So, I see it more as bitterly sardonic:



    Anyhow, some may find the tone offensive, but others may find it the best way to get an initial introduction to the topic.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  11. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Registered

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    That reminds me of those absurd drills we had in grade school during the 60s. They would ring a bell and you would go under your desk (the wooden desks you could put books in) and lace your fingers on your head so the atomic bomb did not get you. Ha, good times!
     
  12. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Kaye,

    I was also part of that generation. Since I live in Florida, it was quite tense during the Cuban missile crisis.

    BTW--The full 20+ minute video covers a lot of ground in a humorous way. I hope you also got a chance to watch that one. For others, it is a fairly painless intro to the subject area.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  13. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Registered

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    I could not hear any audio at all!
     
  14. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Kaye,

    Hmm. No clue on that. Maybe my link was slightly wrong. It certainly has sound, and won't make sense without it. You might want to just look it up on Youtube using the title. I actually think it would be a good (and easy) way to introduce people to the subject in a "painless" (for them) way. I'm a bit conflicted myself. I can enjoy dark humor, but what is being treated humorously is really a horrible genocide. It's kinda like making jokes about the Holocaust. Still, one catches more flies with honey than with vinegar. Many people will watch something funny when they would avoid something painful or disturbing. Hopefully, they still end up getting the information meant to be conveyed. Anyhow, here is the title:

    History Bites - I Pray the Fifth - A Look at the Cathars

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  15. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Registered

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    Ouch, when it comes to the cathars and especially anything to do with the Holocaust, there is no way to bring humor into it. I am trying to remain neutral to other's opinions or ways of looking at life, but some areas just should not be part of satire. I have found that anyone drawn to the cathars is from either a medieval interest, or from a deep longing they feel. As for the Holocaust, that period is so horrific, degrading, cruel and inhuman that.. its just not appropriate in terms for humor ever.

    Well, wishing the happiest of holiday to all, especially those of any faith who are spending holiday time alone. This goes out to everyone everywhere, if possible, bring a moment of joy into someones life who made need it. Give a caring thought, a deed or a gesture to someone who maybe has less or simply needs it. Signing off for now.
     
  16. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Kaye,

    I hope you are able to respond. I'm having some concern that your health problems may have intervened again.

    Please let us know.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  17. Kaye

    Kaye Senior Registered

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    Hi!
    You must have been using your psychic vibes, yes. I was due to return to work Friday from Short Term Disability (lung, coughing and laryngitis). I still have laryngitis so I had voice restrictions for work. They called Thursday night and fired me from my job because I no longer can fullfill job requirements. I worked in IT and gave hours of meetings daily. I asked if they could modify my role and that was no. I have been there 3 1/2 years too. I don't have a job but they extended my term date until January 21st since I was paid up on health insurance. They said I could apply for other positions if I qualified.. which means no since I cannot talk. While I have insurance have apt at Johns Hopkins Voice Center with laryntologist. I have been sick since 1st week in July. Its not been a good time. Hunting for a job at 61 without a voice is dismal. Bottomed out financially from all these doctors, medications, scans, MRIs. Sometimes you have to just go through something.
     
  18. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

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    I'm very sorry to hear about your dilemma Kaye. Having enough insurance these days is difficult for both business and employee. I truly wish that I could help without taking it from my wife for her survival. You have shown me the honest and trusting person that you are, although that seems to not be as important to businesses that focus on their costs instead.
     
  19. John Tat

    John Tat Senior Registered

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    Hi Kaye From my meditations it has been shown to me that my life and most likely all of us are that we are presented with series of events all of which have outcomes .. either positive or negative What we do and how we handle each event within the series of events determines the outcome No matter how bad things appear we will be presented with an event/events within the series of events that will if we handle them in the proper manner a positive outcome will result.. Nothing is given to us we must earn it... That is what these series of events and life are all about

    All The Best
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  20. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Kaye,

    I'm really glad to hear from you, but very sorry to hear about your situation. However, I do hope that it can be the door into something even better. I'm tempted to observe that not being held up with making a living would leave you free to do some things that I would love to see you be able to do freely--i.e., write, share and teach. However, I recognize the missing ingredient in that as well as you do = money or livelihood (if preferred). Plus, losing your voice is no great help either.

    In terms of work, I can't deny being blessed by, among a host of other things, being able to live in a 1st world country with a lot of freedom, conveniences and opportunities--including the opportunity to work. However, I just wish that the constant grind of making ends meet didn't seem to prevent me from doing so many other things that seem more important. OTOH, as I am basically a "freelancer" I really miss it when new business/jobs stop coming in (and the holidays are unfortunately my very worst season), so we're just "holding on by our fingernails" at the moment and hoping for things to improve in the next few weeks.

    Also, though I appreciate what John has said, it turns life into one long multiple choice exam. This makes me look back on my life as one where I'm not even making a "passing" grade and most likely only dragging along with 50% or less of my choices being correct. However, in terms of "choices" and which way to go now, I doubt your situation has gone unnoticed by those who "monitor" you from the Light. I have to think that they will shed light on the way forward and the right choices, though you may have to seek this. Also, I would not be surprised if one day you look back and see all of this as part of some larger and wider plan that you did not comprehend at the time--something meant to benefit you and others. It would be wonderful if all of this opened up a "right" choice that led to something even better.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  21. Jaimie

    Jaimie Senior Member

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    Hi Kayle, you and I never wrote each other but reading of your situation I feel so sorry for you and hope it works out. Where I live everyone pay up to a certain amount when buying medication ( all medication for children are free ), and it is free of charge of scans, x-rays, and everyone pays the same amount which is heavily reduced from what it really costs when seeing a doctor. And this up too to a certain amount and then one has a free card for a period of time. Hospital staff is always obliged to give people emergency-help, we do not have an insurance-thing, but I learned that in the US people have to have that or a hospital can refuse to help you. Everything is paid for in the tax-system we have. In Denmark if you see the doctor it is free of charge for example (but still in the tax system). Of course, our countries has our faults too, such a lottery. For you to go through all that expensive things and be fired on top of everything sounds so cruel. I too of course hope for your improvement and for everything to work out for you !

    On a side note why I peeked into this thread to start with was because the thought has come to me that memories from a past life ( that ended very badly so I rather not visit them freely ) that me and my then husband started out as Cathars. But because I don't remember anything beside me being shocked over how low status females had in the new village we came to ( which after some research and much help from this forum came to the conclusion that it was most likely in Italy ), so no wisdom besides that females and male were equals, is remembered then if I was a Cathar one time. I also claimed we came from Bulgaria. It was the way some clothes were that I had seen in my experienced memories during meditation that fit into how they were dressed on paintings etc on Cathars and those around, but maybe others were dressed like that too, I don't know. Because I was living in the witch-trial-era which got real personal it is a life I avoid if and when it tries to show up during meditation. But I remember the feeling as if I felt as if my husband betrayed where we came from, our true beliefs and tried to melt in and accept the low status women had in that village, all in the name of God ( Christianity ), read fear.

    /Jaimie
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  22. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Jaimie,

    Bulgarians came to Italy starting fairly early in the Christian era. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarians_in_Italy) Bogomilism was largely ascribed to Bulgaria and Bulgarians. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogomilism). There does seem to be some differences of opinion as to whether Catharism was a direct off-shoot of Eastern European Bogomilism or was an independent indigenous Western European movement that was strongly aligned with and influenced by Bogomilism. Either way, the two were very, very similar if not the same. In Italy as elsewhere in Europe, the movement was strongly persecuted. There is a very good article about this here: https://www.novinite.com/articles/128890/Bulgaria,+Bogomils+and+Italy

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
  23. Speedwell

    Speedwell Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Hi Kaye, really sorry to hear about your problems, health-related and otherwise. Sometimes life seems to throw stuff at us, just one thing after another. Sending good wishes. Take care.
     
  24. Jaimie

    Jaimie Senior Member

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    Hi SeaAndSky !

    Thank you so much for the information and links. Very interesting, and very terrible indeed.

    /Jaimie
     
  25. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

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    I had always associated the Cathers with Origen of Alexandria who was Egyptian Preist, and was holding onto the reincarnation beliefs that were being excluded by the Church. It is strange to me to feel the anger that I must have had at another time in my life to have it echo in this one. I've read too much to try and make inquires into past lives about it, not knowing if I experienced it or read it somewhere. But, I've always been leery of Paul/Saul since before I started this lifetime.
     
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  26. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Jaimie,

    You should link in your thread from that lifetime, just for general interest and information. Also, one of the things that struck me in the last article is that it mentions the custom of taking trips to the mountains for inspiration. I recall that you specifically mentioned this in your thread on that lifetime (well in advance of the time when I came across this article--a nice confirmation). ;)

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
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  27. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Ken,

    It is so hard to know what happened in those early years and how Paul/Saul (or the Origenists) fit into it. However, I don't really see that what I think of as the Esoteric Egalitarian branch of Christianity represented by Bogomilism/Catharism and their successors, OR the Exoteric Imperial branch of Christianity with power centers in Constantinople, Rome, and elsewhere held onto the full essence and purity of the original message. So, the issue may be moot either way.

    Christ warned of the dangers of trying to put the "New Wine" into old wineskins, yet that is the way it has always worked. We try to fit what we have received into the context of our preexisting beliefs. The original Jewish believers tried to fit it into their context of Jewish legalism under the Mosaic Law. This problem is addressed in the New Testament, and didn't last very long. The Gentiles then did their best to fit it into their preexisting paradigms. The Greeks were perhaps the most benign in their influence, as they merely sought to understand it in the context of their own philosophical beliefs, particularly Neo-Platonism. (Origen was part of this). However, they were soon quashed and assimilated by the dominant and control minded Romans (who by that time had divided the empire in two with its primary surviving power base in Constantinople). As far as I can tell, the Imperial Christianity of the Latins/Romans has become the basis of the current Orthodox, Roman, and Protestant "flavors" we know today. However, alongside this development of the more hierarchical exoteric stream of Christianity, it appears that there was a countervailing stream of egalitarian esoteric teachings and believers that survived in the Eastern Roman Empire and beyond. However, while purer in many ways, I do not see this strand as being unaffected by the hands and minds through which it passed. They seem to have been greatly impacted by, and sought to fit their faith into, the "wineskin" formed by the ancient Dualism of the East (Zoroastrian and otherwise) as well as including some random Gnostic elements. Christianity is certainly susceptible to interpretations congruent with these teachings, but not without distortion IMO.

    Unfortunately, the dialectical clash (thesis vs. antithesis) between the Imperial Exoteric and the Egalitarian Esoteric (which are once again my own way of looking at these two) when they finally met did not arrive at a benevolent synthesis of the best features of both. It did result in some reforms in the former, which found itself shamed by the selfless purity of many of the best of the latter. However, for the forces of the egalitarian/esoteric stream of Christianity represented by the Bogomils and Cathars, there was only brutal annihilation. The erasure of these movements amounted to such a complete and thorough extirpation that we do not today even have trustworthy and reliable samples of their full teachings. The more mystical may never have never been committed to writing, however, even with this proviso it is a shame that so little has survived.

    In terms of Paul/Saul, I do not really know how much influence he had on the Cathars/Bogomils as I have read contradictory things on this. Some posit a strong connection between Bogomilism/Catharism and Marcionism, which extolled the Pauline teachings. There are definitely some common elements, so I can understand the arguments. Others see a strong connection to the Apostle John and the Johannine School of early Christianity (contra Paul). Once again, there are definitely some arguments for this. Likewise the Origenists and others. So much is lost to us historically speaking. We may never be able to ferret out the answers to all of these questions.

    Cordially,
    S&S
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  28. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

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    From what I've read, the Church banned Origen and sought to destroy all his writings - which sounds pretty damning to me.

    When I read that I heard a voice inside saying "Yeah, they murdered us" - strange, even to me now.

    The Paul/Saul thing was a more personal thing. I don't know if I was involved in the dispute in taking Jesus' teaching into churches rather than the way Amish and some others still do, or I personally had other issues directly with him in his lifetime - maybe both!
     
  29. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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    Hi Ken,

    You're definitely correct that the "Imperial Exoteric" branch declared Origen a heretic and sought to destroy much of the foundation that he laid. However, though I suspect a direct connection between Origen and the Egalitarian Esoteric branch (including Cathars et al.) I can't prove it except by the fact that the Origenists (though possibly not Origen himself) believed in reincarnation. (On the last point, we know that Origen believed in pre-existence, but his primary work only exists in a bowdlerized form, so we can't definitely prove his belief in reincarnation from anything he wrote). However, his most prominent students and successors definitely did, which proves the point to me.

    On Paul/Saul, I think your intuitions, feelings about things, and personal animus are really interesting. I wish you could get to the bottom of this, because I think it would open some doors into things that happened during the apostolic period that need to be opened. (You know what a fanatic I am about that type of thing ;)). I also think that your inner "voice"--coming as it did is reflective of some direct involvement and probable martyrdom in the period being discussed.

    Cordially,
    S&S

    PS--In my searching for Cathar related materials I came across Eowyn's account of a Cathar lifetime, which is quite interesting. You may want to check it out. (So, there are probably quite a few on this board--knowingly or unknowingly--who were there).
     
  30. Jaimie

    Jaimie Senior Member

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    Hi Sea & Sky !

    Thank you:)

    Here it is http://www.reincarnationforum.com/threads/a-witch-story.8813/#post-118094

    ( It could be that I have spread it out a little in other threads as well, though...will see if I in that case can find it/them )

    /Jaimie
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020

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