• Thank you to Carol and Steve Bowman, the forum owners, for our new upgrade!

Soul Trap: Evidence for forced incarnation / reincarnation from pre-birth memories

Vestus Maxwell

Vestus Maxwell

Member
Hi.

This is a compilation of pre-birth memories that indicate forced incarnation / reincarnation is a thing.


Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/2024121...-cases-suggestive-of-forced-reincarnation/(it takes a while to load, but it works fine).

I also suggest you watch this video:

Common Denominators in Pre-Birth Memories. It is an analysis of patterns in PBM's.


I think forced re/incarnation is a problem I am just trying to warn people.

Kind regards.

[June 22, 2024 edit]: This hypnotherapist also saw something similar in her practice:
 
Last edited:
4d4m said:
Here's one you may be interested in https://4dforum.org/case-study-58/
Click to expand...
Hi 4d4m,

I find your case studies, etc. interesting, but there are continuing references to an over-arching villainous group of some type that is "pulling the strings" to accomplish their own evil aims over multiple lifetimes. However, I find no clear explanation of who these folks are, why they do what they do, and what association they have with the State of Washington. Could you clarify, or point me to the specific location on your site where you explain exactly what is going on?

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi Inhaltslos,

Left Coast politics aside, I really have no reason to suspect the inhabitants of Washington State of being particularly nefarious. Of course, an evil group of manipulative monsters could be hiding and operating most anywhere, given the internet. However, to refer to Washington State as "Mordor" definitely seems a bit over the top. o_O (I always heard that the weather was pretty overcast and rainy over there, but still . . . .) ;) Hmmm. It does have five "high threat" volcanoes, which is more than Mordor has (with no disrespect towards the legendary Mount Doom of Mordor intended). 😳 Evil Archons . . . maybe, but certainly more "low key" than Sauron. 🫤 Legions of evil orcs . . . . I have to admit that the general region does seem to have more than a few, but is it enough. 🤔

Cordially,
S&S :cool:
 
4d4m said:
It's something you know about or don't but, in this order
https://4dforum.org/2024/03/04/some-things-never-change/ https://4dforum.org/2024/03/05/lets-talk-about-ted/ https://4dforum.org/2024/03/06/the-interesting-case-of-charles-6/ https://4dforum.org/2024/03/07/more-groomed-spartans/ https://4dforum.org/2024/03/09/grooming-a-groomer/
Click to expand...
Hi 4d4m,

I have previously read some of these, and tried to plow through everything again in the order given, but still don't understand. Can you please state clearly what and who you are talking about! You continually refer to "Giants"--what does this mean? You refer to the State of Washington as Mordor--why? What and who are the Giants? You seem to say they are racialist and socialist in the NAZI sense, but apparently predate the NAZIs by thousand of years. You seem to indicate the opposition of the Giants to the same things the NAZIs opposed, and indicate that they chase people down in future lifetimes to punish them. But it would definitely help if you would write down a complete and coherent explanation.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Have to say that these responses are disappointing but not the least bit surprising given how people are these days to either sugar coat things or just simply refuse to deep dive before making any lasting conclusions on a topic like this. I will say though the proof is in the pudding between the NDE and life between lives accounts going back decades but once again if the experiences are not entirely positive they are either explained away in a dismissive manner or simply discarded altogether by many in these circles.
 
There and back again said:
Have to say that these responses are disappointing but not the least bit surprising given how people are these days to either sugar coat things or just simply refuse to deep dive before making any lasting conclusions on a topic like this. I will say though the proof is in the pudding between the NDE and life between lives accounts going back decades but once again if the experiences are not entirely positive they are either explained away in a dismissive manner or simply discarded altogether by many in these circles.
Click to expand...
Hi TABA:

You're right that people tend to get to a certain point (where they think they've got a grasp on the realities of something) and then close their minds, becoming resistant to anything that might serious undermine their paradigm. It happens in almost every area. But, I've already got doubts on a lot of things I previously thought I had a lock on when it comes to reincarnation (including on some days reincarnation itself). So, a bit more disruption won't be a problem. Actually, it would be welcomed. My problem is not so much handling disruption, but trying to handle incoherent and/or inadequate explanations. But, this is not, from prior experience, a criticism I would aim at you. So, please proceed. I am, as the saying goes, all ears.

Cordially,
S&S
 
4dforum.org

Best Friends Forever (BFFs)

When we see individuals linked through time and examine their relationships, we start to see patterns. The following individuals work together, even when appearing to be opposed. Phil is on the lef…
4dforum.org 4dforum.org
 
Not sure if this here is a conversation about Vestus Maxwell’s theory of forced reincarnation or of 4d4m’s theories and how all that ties together.

Anyway, I've given it a try and read through the document which OP has linked above (not sure if OP is the author of that document or if it's someone else). I’m also not unfamiliar with the overall idea of forced incarnation. However, there is nothing in the accounts and comments provided in the document that would convince me personally that the reincarnation trap/prison planet theory is true.

Having listened to many accounts of NDEs, OBEs, pre-birth memories and astral travels over time, I found the vast majority of them are positive experiences of the spiritual realm that don’t support the idea of souls being tricked and forced to do senseless reincarnations, right on the contrary. Even some of the accounts cited in the linked document above turn out to be overall positive experiences of the afterlife and positive takes on life on earth itself when you listen to the full story, although they do have some elements of seemingly forced reincarnation in them. (I haven’t checked out all of the accounts in full, though.)

I’ve also listened to some talks with people who seem to have some insight of the afterlife because of their NDEs, pre-birth memories or astral travels, and who were actually asked by the interviewer about possible forced reincarnation and the so called light trap as these ideas are brought up again and again. They were able to explain why on certain dimensions/levels of consciousness it can seem to some souls as if reincarnation was forced on them, as well as why certain souls really don’t have another choice. Also, they often state that up to a certain point an almost like automated process, generally known as karma, is involved. Their explanations and answers to these questions, which are quite consistent and similar to one another, make more sense to me personally than a reincarnation trap and some powerful beings abusing naïve souls. But that’s just my opinion. In the end everyone has to decide by themselves which accounts, theories and interpretations they want to believe, if any, also based on our own memories and experiences of the afterlife and spiritual world possibly.

What the writer of the document suggests as a solution to the possible reincarnation trap however, i.e. not going into the light after death, but staying as a “ghost” on Earth and trying to retrieve all memories of pls and LBLs there might not be a good idea at all. Many accounts of astral travellers and people with NDEs are consistent in that there are indeed some lower dimensions close to the Earth and even lower where negative emotions and negative thoughts of souls easily manifest and keep souls entrapped in a loop of self-punishment or boredom. So the author’s suggested way out of the cycle might actually be a path to self-entrapment and needless suffering, the exact things they want to avoid…

@Vestus Maxwell thanks for the links and for bringing up your ideas. If anything, as no one of us knows the full answer, it's still a theory interesting to think about and it's worth taking all possibilities into consideration.
 
SeaAndSky said:
Hi TABA:

You're right that people tend to get to a certain point (where they think they've got a grasp on the realities of something) and then close their minds, becoming resistant to anything that might serious undermine their paradigm. It happens in almost every area. But, I've already got doubts on a lot of things I previously thought I had a lock on when it comes to reincarnation (including on some days reincarnation itself). So, a bit more disruption won't be a problem. Actually, it would be welcomed. My problem is not so much handling disruption, but trying to handle incoherent and/or inadequate explanations. But, this is not, from prior experience, a criticism I would aim at you. So, please proceed. I am, as the saying goes, all ears.

Cordially,
S&S
Click to expand...
I am not neurotypical so communication isn't my strong suit and my style of thinking being out of step of what is expected in society so forgive me on that one. Anyway to make it easy as humanly possible I'll just link a youtube channel instead.

 
There and back again said:
I am not neurotypical so communication isn't my strong suit and my style of thinking being out of step of what is expected in society so forgive me on that one. Anyway to make it easy as humanly possible I'll just link a youtube channel instead.

Click to expand...
Hi TABA,

I don't really want to wade through this much material, just to find a sensible and coherent summary or synopsis of the position. o_O Do you have one particular video of an hour or less? :oops: Actually, I can't see how this position can't be summarized in ten minutes or less, or at most twenty minutes, but I'm providing some leeway. :rolleyes:

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I'm not really a needles in haystacks kind of guy. :)
 
SeaAndSky said:
Hi TABA,

I don't really want to wade through this much material, just to find a sensible and coherent summary or synopsis of the position. o_O Do you have one particular video of an hour or less? :oops: Actually, I can't see how this position can't be summarized in ten minutes or less, or at most twenty minutes, but I'm providing some leeway. :rolleyes:

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I'm not really a needles in haystacks kind of guy. :)
Click to expand...
This isn't something one can just microwave and have something functional as it would for example like compressing the bible into a single paragraph. Just pick one plus I am permanently tired from work (wasn't born on third base) and only have been averaging around four hours of sleep for the past two years.
 
Ocean said:
However, there is nothing in the accounts and comments provided in the document that would convince me personally that the reincarnation trap/prison planet theory is true.
Click to expand...
Despite not believing in it either, I think that forced re/incarnation is something I should write about considering the number of similar accounts.
Having listened to many accounts of NDEs, OBEs, pre-birth memories and astral travels over time, I found the vast majority of them are positive experiences of the spiritual realm that don’t support the idea of souls being tricked and forced to do senseless reincarnations, right on the contrary. Even some of the accounts cited in the linked document above turn out to be overall positive experiences of the afterlife and positive takes on life on earth itself when you listen to the full story, although they do have some elements of seemingly forced reincarnation in them. (I haven’t checked out all of the accounts in full, though.)
Click to expand...
Well, one can hope for the best and prepare for the worst, I suppose.
What the writer of the document suggests as a solution to the possible reincarnation trap however, i.e. not going into the light after death, but staying as a “ghost” on Earth and trying to retrieve all memories of pls and LBLs there might not be a good idea at all. Many accounts of astral travellers and people with NDEs are consistent in that there are indeed some lower dimensions close to the Earth and even lower where negative emotions and negative thoughts of souls easily manifest and keep souls entrapped in a loop of self-punishment or boredom. So the author’s suggested way out of the cycle might actually be a path to self-entrapment and needless suffering, the exact things they want to avoid…
Click to expand...
According to Michael Newton, and if I understood it right, such states are the result of the individual will/state of mind, hence I suggested cultivating positive mindset, learning astral projection/lucid dreaming, having a goal regarding death and listening to pbm/nde accounts. I imagine people who have some awareness regarding higher realities would have a different death experience than those who don't.

onlinetextsharing.com

Michael Newton - Destiny of Souls - Ghosts - Online Text Sharing

Michael Newton - Destiny of Souls - Ghosts
onlinetextsharing.com onlinetextsharing.com
 
SeaAndSky said:
Hi TABA,

I don't really want to wade through this much material, just to find a sensible and coherent summary or synopsis of the position. o_O Do you have one particular video of an hour or less? :oops: Actually, I can't see how this position can't be summarized in ten minutes or less, or at most twenty minutes, but I'm providing some leeway. :rolleyes:

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I'm not really a needles in haystacks kind of guy. :)
Click to expand...
Mark, the creator in question, believes in a system of control that extends beyond the physical and that also tricks people into reincarnation. He is into some conspiracy theories as well. His videos are often "reviews" of NDE's through the lens he sees this reality. At least that's what I got after watching his content for a while.

I think you could listen to his take on Tom Campbell:



Edit: this kind of content may not be your cup of tea, though.
 
The belief that reincarnation lifetimes, the family one is born into next time, is decided upon by a god or gods is misplaced. The demon gods of Hinduism chose future lifetimes for people based on obedience, not righteousness. Westernization has changed the belief but not the reality. https://4dforum.org/case-study-67/
 
Vestus Maxwell said:
Mark, the creator in question, believes in a system of control that extends beyond the physical and that also tricks people into reincarnation. He is into some conspiracy theories as well. His videos are often "reviews" of NDE's through the lens he sees this reality. At least that's what I got after watching his content for a while.

I think you could listen to his take on Tom Campbell:



Edit: this kind of content may not be your cup of tea, though.
Click to expand...
Hi Vestus:

6 hrs ?? I appreciate the effort, but this hardly seems like a synopsis or summary, more like an in-depth review of evidence. Can't someone just summarize the salient points of their respective positions? And, just to be clear, though I do not generally find most of the gnostic currents of the past to be particularly attractive or convincing, I have a long-time interest in the Cathars and Catharism. This is a fact that is well evidenced on the most active Cathar thread on the board. This does not mean that I believe everything said about them is true, but it is undeniable that they considered us to be light beings trapped and ensnared on this planet via evil forces using reincarnation. So, I will listen respectfully if someone will just clearly spell out what they are talking about. I can go to Wikipedia and get a quick summary of multiple varieties of Gnosticism, which were often excruciatingly complicated and abstruse in their doctrines and beliefs, but seemingly no one is willing to do the same thing in the current context, though I can find no reason for their apparent reticence. Just a few paragraphs should do it. Please . . .

Cordially,
S&S
 
4d4m said:
The belief that reincarnation lifetimes, the family one is born into next time, is decided upon by a god or gods is misplaced. The demon gods of Hinduism chose future lifetimes for people based on obedience, not righteousness. Westernization has changed the belief but not the reality. https://4dforum.org/case-study-67/
Click to expand...
HI 4d4m:

Are you saying those are the ones in charge, the "giants" and so-forth? Please be more direct. If you are afraid they will come after you, just say so and I will stop asking questions. Indeed, based on what you have said--if I am understanding you correctly--that would not be a crazy assumption given your apparent beliefs about what is going on.

Cordially,
S&S
 
They're just people, not gods, space aliens or anything else. The term everyone uses is giants. Again, one either knows what I am talking about or doesn't, that's not on me. I think if you go through this page https://4dforum.org/case-studies/ learn how to do the charts and read the descriptions you'll begin to see patterns. If you think it's not worth your time, that is also not on me. Here's one of the cases that might interest you https://4dforum.org/case-study-66/
 
4d4m said:
They're just people, not gods, space aliens or anything else. The term everyone uses is giants. Again, one either knows what I am talking about or doesn't, that's not on me. I think if you go through this page https://4dforum.org/case-studies/ learn how to do the charts and read the descriptions you'll begin to see patterns. If you think it's not worth your time, that is also not on me. Here's one of the cases that might interest you https://4dforum.org/case-study-66/
Click to expand...
Hi 4d4m,

I have read many (probably most) of your case studies, and found them fascinating. That is one of the reasons I keep asking questions. However, I do not have the background to understand the technical side of how you came up with these connections. Perhaps that is something I can remedy at some hypothetical future date when the duties of work and family are less.

In the meantime, who is "everyone"? Do you have some links? I am interested in following up. (Feel free to PM me if you prefer).

Cordially,
S&S

PS--When you mention "giants" I think of the Nephilim. It has always seemed to me that, though all of the giants of the Bible were Nephilim, the language in question does not--IMO--require that all Nephilim (including their descendants) were necessarily giant in size.
 
Last edited:
According to Islam Adam the first man was 90 ft tall (60 cubits). Weird right? There are many different Adam stories, one of the first being the Yazidi story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawusi_Melek < just for fun.

The soul reincarnates with a pattern being the distance and direction of Venus and Mercury. The two will be the same distance apart. Which planet leads will also be the same. This is in most cases. In the instance of a stressful death the reincarnation will be associated with the date of death of the prior life. A stressful death is subjective, depending upon the soul's "toughness" if you will, or the emotional impact of the event. There are examples in the case studies.

It is important to understand that matching charts is not enough to determine a match. There are many people born each day. The other aspects that help determine the match are facial appearance and similar life patterns. In my case studies I use famous people from history with the understanding someone famous in one life time is more likely to be famous in another. This doesn't always work and I have as many attempts to determine a past life that have failed as I do successes.

One of the main purposes of this research is to show, through the number of examples, that reincarnation is real.
 
Reincarnation may be real, while being something else than one believes reincarnation to be. When we look for confirmation data, we unconsciously and inherently filter out the data and the possibilities that contradict our expectations, and beliefs.

Intellectually or emotionally reached conclusions need to be intuitively validated, putting aside all beliefs and expectations.
 
As to the Nephilim:

In view of Mauro Biglino's, a former Vatican translator, discoveries in the field of paleo-contacts, the Nephilim (giants or not) were the race of extra-terrestrials which lived on the Earth even before the Elohim - another extraterrestrial race who gave us Jehova, Jesus and both Testaments.

From a linguist's point of view, 'Nephilim' is a noun in plural, and is formed from 'Nephila', which in Ancient Aramaic meant the 'Constellation of Orion'. Just, as Mauro Biglino says, like 'Italians' from 'Italy'.

 
Last edited:

So, the "mentor" tells she has to go back to earth, but that she also has free will. So what kind of free will is this? Is this the free will to pick different kinds of poison? How about the free will to be left the f*** alone?
Bulls*** like this is the reason that makes me think that these "higher realms" are controlled by authoritarian hierarchical structures. I wonder if being a ghost on earth is a better alternative. At least you won't have to deal with a decaying bag of flesh and bones.

I also wonder how the "discussions" she had went like.

The more I listen to NDE's and PBM's the least I care about an afterlife, despite thinking it's a real thing. Now It's getting to the point I am starting to scoff at it and be hostile towards it. Perhaps I just had a bad day today :-/
 
Last edited:
4d4m said:
According to Islam Adam the first man was 90 ft tall (60 cubits). Weird right? There are many different Adam stories, one of the first being the Yazidi story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawusi_Melek < just for fun.
Click to expand...

Thank you for mentioning the Yazidis and the Peacock Angel. I believe this being is the planetary logos, which is the universal logos that includes an awareness of all life in our local universe. I think there are larger bodies for sure, but that would derail the conversation you're having here. By larger bodies I mean expressions and experiences not limited to the human personality. Like the Earth having its own personality. All of these are my own beliefs and conclusions at the moment.

Sorry to interrupt the flow, thank you again for bringing light to the Yazidi culture. They deserve Love and Respect. My Heart has great sympathy for their plight and deep reverence for Tause Malek.

Kind regards~
 
Last edited:
Vestus Maxwell said:

So, the "mentor" tells she has to go back to earth, but that she also has free will. So what kind of free will is this? Is this the free will to pick different kinds of poison? How about the free will to be left the f*** alone?
Bulls*** like this is the reason that makes me think that these "higher realms" are controlled by authoritarian hierarchical structures. I wonder if being a ghost on earth is a better alternative. At least you won't have to deal with a decaying bag of flesh and bones.

I also wonder how the "discussions" she had went like.

The more I listen to NDE's and PBM's the least I care about an afterlife, despite thinking it's a real thing. Now It's getting to the point I am starting to scoff at it and be hostile towards it. Perhaps I just had a bad day today :-/
Click to expand...
That is one of the best channels on YT regarding this hands down and one of favorites. Just wished that people would wake up to this but with comfort and privilege some get to enjoy I have my doubts.
 
baro-san said:
Reincarnation may be real, while being something else than one believes reincarnation to be. When we look for confirmation data, we unconsciously and inherently filter out the data and the possibilities that contradict our expectations, and beliefs.

Intellectually or emotionally reached conclusions need to be intuitively validated, putting aside all beliefs and expectations.
Click to expand...
I don't believe in reincarnation. I know that reincarnation is real. https://4dforum.org/case-study-1/
 
baro-san said:
:) That isn't what I wrote. Again: reincarnation may not be what one believes to be.

By the way: everything one knows is belief, excepting that he exists in some way as an awareness. It is the largely misunderstood concept of "I am".
Click to expand...
In your opinion, how would reincarnation work?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top