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Soul Trap: Evidence for forced incarnation / reincarnation from pre-birth memories

Not sure if this here is a conversation about Vestus Maxwell’s theory of forced reincarnation or of 4d4m’s theories and how all that ties together.

Anyway, I've given it a try and read through the document which OP has linked above (not sure if OP is the author of that document or if it's someone else). I’m also not unfamiliar with the overall idea of forced incarnation. However, there is nothing in the accounts and comments provided in the document that would convince me personally that the reincarnation trap/prison planet theory is true.

Having listened to many accounts of NDEs, OBEs, pre-birth memories and astral travels over time, I found the vast majority of them are positive experiences of the spiritual realm that don’t support the idea of souls being tricked and forced to do senseless reincarnations, right on the contrary. Even some of the accounts cited in the linked document above turn out to be overall positive experiences of the afterlife and positive takes on life on earth itself when you listen to the full story, although they do have some elements of seemingly forced reincarnation in them. (I haven’t checked out all of the accounts in full, though.)

I’ve also listened to some talks with people who seem to have some insight of the afterlife because of their NDEs, pre-birth memories or astral travels, and who were actually asked by the interviewer about possible forced reincarnation and the so called light trap as these ideas are brought up again and again. They were able to explain why on certain dimensions/levels of consciousness it can seem to some souls as if reincarnation was forced on them, as well as why certain souls really don’t have another choice. Also, they often state that up to a certain point an almost like automated process, generally known as karma, is involved. Their explanations and answers to these questions, which are quite consistent and similar to one another, make more sense to me personally than a reincarnation trap and some powerful beings abusing naïve souls. But that’s just my opinion. In the end everyone has to decide by themselves which accounts, theories and interpretations they want to believe, if any, also based on our own memories and experiences of the afterlife and spiritual world possibly.

What the writer of the document suggests as a solution to the possible reincarnation trap however, i.e. not going into the light after death, but staying as a “ghost” on Earth and trying to retrieve all memories of pls and LBLs there might not be a good idea at all. Many accounts of astral travellers and people with NDEs are consistent in that there are indeed some lower dimensions close to the Earth and even lower where negative emotions and negative thoughts of souls easily manifest and keep souls entrapped in a loop of self-punishment or boredom. So the author’s suggested way out of the cycle might actually be a path to self-entrapment and needless suffering, the exact things they want to avoid…

@Vestus Maxwell thanks for the links and for bringing up your ideas. If anything, as no one of us knows the full answer, it's still a theory interesting to think about and it's worth taking all possibilities into consideration.
Ocean,

I agreed with what you said as we all agree in the process of coming back to the physical plane for more learning as the 3rd dimension is a part of how soul evolves in spiritual consciousness. One can think of the physical cosmos as a very large school for all of us to receive our spiritual training. Now there are some souls that are for lack of a better word trapped on the lower astral because of attachments to the physical plane. Most of these souls either died suddenly like suicide or where murdered or have drug and alcohol issues which then they would find a soul here on the physical plane that has the same issues and attach themselves to their aura to get the same high off them since they don't have a physical body anymore. The desire is there for the high, but they don't have a means to get high off of the drug or alcohol which is for them is a living hell in a way.

There are a lot of astral helpers over there which deal with cases like this in helping those trapped there to transcend to the middle astral plane where they can recover both mentally, and emotionally so they can move on. As for souls that want us trapped here and forces us to reincarnate to what end and why they want us to do that leaves me wondering? I have heard of astral polices of sorts that deal with souls on the lower astral for such crimes against others that have recently cross over. However, as I understand it the natural laws of physics of that dimension have us gravitate to a sub plane of the astral world which we resonate with naturally due to the mental and emotional make up of our inner true self. Therefor a soul of a lower nature cannot infer fear which souls living on a higher vibrational level themselves. So, I don't know how one can be tricked into reincarnating back here because that process actually takes place on the causal plane which is on 6th dimension which is far higher in vibration than the astral plane. You can google Causal plane for more details on this.

But any who!! Thanks for your input. I found it a very interesting and insightful.

Peace and love always.

P.
 
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This hypnotherapist also saw something similar in her practice:


This video was uploaded after I created my original post and I had never heard of her before.

For what's worth, she also says this isn't very common nowadays, although she doesn't know exactly why and the conspiracy theorist in me suspects some jiggering by higher forces in order to steer her in a certain direction.

I know hypnotherapy is still controversial when it comes to memory retrieval. We have the issues of confabulation and leading questions; however, if a hypnotherapist hears the same concepts from different individuals without the use of leading questions (as she claims in the full interview), that's something worth investigating.

I also wonder if Michael Newton ever saw something similar but decided not to publish it.
 
"also wonder if Michael Newton ever saw something similar but decided not to publish it."

I doubt it. He did say in one of his books the young souls (or new) tend to have a lot of trouble incarnating in human form. Some don't want to come back. Some are made (persuaded) to come back. So they may be one source of the forced incarnation memories. Probably not the only source though.

I get the impression that forced incarnations are not common. Most are voluntary.
 
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"also wonder if Michael Newton ever saw something similar but decided not to publish it."

I doubt it. He did say in one of his books the young souls (or new) tend to have a lot of trouble incarnating in human form. Some don't want to come back. Some are made to come back. So they may be one source of the forced incarnation memories. Probably not the only source though.

I get the impression that forced incarnations are not common. Most are voluntary.

In fact, I heard Michael Newton’s books being named several times as a source of examples of forced incarnation by people who believe in the soul trap theory. However, I don’t know where these examples are in the books that they refer to.

I read Newton’s first and second book a long time ago, and I don’t remember it very well by now, but I’m sure I didn’t get the overall impression from it that reincarnation happens always on an involuntary basis – at least not in the sense of evil beings tricking unsuspecting souls into needless reincarnations and miserable lives on Earth.

I know hypnotherapy is still controversial when it comes to memory retrieval. We have the issues of confabulation and leading questions

Exactly. Not only leading questions, but the whole process of regression is unreliable and known to produce imagination and false memories according to standard science and psychology: Already the belief in past lives or the afterlife and instructions like “Go back in time before you were born” will make the human mind come up with imaginations and fantasy, according to what people expect to remember.

It’s notable that leading reincarnation researcher Ian Stevenson dismissed hypnotic regression altogether. Hypnotic state is similar to a dream state, he said. Here’s a quote from him (the whole statement can be found in the link below):

In fact, the state of a person during hypnosis resembles in many ways–although not in all–that of a person dreaming. The subconscious parts of the mind are released from ordinary inhibitions and they may then present in dramatic form a new “personality.” If the subject has been instructed by the hypnotist–explicitly or implicitly–to “go back to another place and time” or given some similar guidance, the new “personality” may appear to be one of another period of history. Such evoked “previous personalities” may be extremely plausible both to the person having the experience and to other persons watching him or her. Experiments by Baker1and by Nicholas Spanos and his colleagues2 have shown how easily different suggestions given by a hypnotist can influence the features of the “previous personality” in conformity with suggestions. .... .... .... A marked emotional experience during the hypnotic regression provides no assurance that memories of a real previous life were recovered. The subjective experience of reliving a previous life may be impressive to the person having the experience, and yet the “previous life” may be a fantasy, like most of our dreams. Also, benefit (even dramatic improvement) in some physical or psychological symptom does not provide evidence that a real previous life has been remembered.

Ian Stevenson: Concerns about Hypnotic Regression

So, the question is, how much can we actually rely on accounts and memories obtained by regression, whether past lives, current life or life-between-lives? Can we rely on them at all? That’s another whole topic worth of discussion.

Me personally, I’m pretty skeptical towards regression with adults and I’d rather go with Stevenson’s assessment, also based on my own experience with regression. But there might be exemptions.

Normally, the people who seek out past life or LBL regression do already believe in past lives and/or the afterlife. Some seek out a regression therapist because of certain issues in current life. So, in most cases, people will already have (unconscious) ideas as to what they will remember or how their issues will be explained and resolved due to PL or LBL memories, at least they expect to remember something – and their mind, when in a relaxed state, will imagine things accordingly or just come up with something, some result they expect.

Also, people who seek out regression are oftentimes interested in reincarnation in general, and they read books or listen to other’s accounts on the topic. What they hear from others influences their own expectations and beliefs.

Now, it’s possible an increase and decrease in accounts of forced reincarnation under regression is due to this very idea of soul traps and forced incarnations becoming more known and popular, then less popular again, in respective online communities and media, influencing peoples expectations of their own supposed LBL memories.
Another issue is the perception and expectation of the therapist herself which was discussed in the other thread.

Nevertheless, I had shared the above video on the other thread myself, because I found it very curious that a therapist would see a change like this. She claims other therapists experienced this as well, but we cannot check if that’s true.

So, what do we know from all that? We know that we don’t know anything. But in terms of psychology it’s still curious, I think.
 
Now, it’s possible an increase and decrease in accounts of forced reincarnation under regression is due to this very idea of soul traps and forced incarnations becoming more known and popular, then less popular again, in respective online communities and media, influencing peoples expectations of their own supposed LBL memories.
There isn't much I disagree with except this part. A superficial google search with results from 2000 - 2009 failed to yield meaningful links related to the concept of forced reincarnation.
 
Hi TABA,

I keep meaning to spend some time viewing the Youtubes that have been posted on this topic, but every time I check it out the list of lengthy Youtubes gets longer and longer. Can you prioritize them for me? I may be able to only see one at a time, so what would you have me look at 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.? (Just the first 3-5 will do). I may not get very far, but I don't want to get lost in the deep grass (details), and not get the foundation information. There appears to be a lot out there on this topic.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi TABA,

I keep meaning to spend some time viewing the Youtubes that have been posted on this topic, but every time I check it out the list of lengthy Youtubes gets longer and longer. Can you prioritize them for me? I may be able to only see one at a time, so what would you have me look at 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.? (Just the first 3-5 will do). I may not get very far, but I don't want to get lost in the deep grass (details), and not get the foundation information. There appears to be a lot out there on this topic.

Cordially,
S&S

Sorry I am employed so my time is unfortunately limited but if it helps there is a few sub reddits with readable content that is easier while there is the variety of opinions and experiences regarding this. I do take breaks when watching these videos which helps sometimes.
 
Sorry I am employed so my time is unfortunately limited but if it helps there is a few sub reddits with readable content that is easier while there is the variety of opinions and experiences regarding this. I do take breaks when watching these videos which helps sometimes.
Don't you have just one you like best or think is the best introduction? :oops:
 
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