Spirits who refuse to reincarnate

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by Kristopher, May 20, 2011.

  1. Kristopher

    Kristopher Senior Registered

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    From what sources I have read, spirits are not forced to reincarnate, or forced in to any type of life (hard/easy). Say that a spirit had incarnated for the first time and they did not like the experienced they had and it put them off ever incarnating again, how would the spirit increase its soul development without incarnating? Also, maybe some spirits refuse to ever take on a hard life, even when advised by their guide. Do you think these spirits would have other options to develop?
     
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  2. hydrolad

    hydrolad Senior Moderator Super Moderator

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    From what I've read on the subject (and if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me), but as Earth is a real tough sandbox to play in, as opposed to just staying in the spiritual world, it would stand to reason that soul growth and advancement would be much slower if one just stayed on the Other Side.


    The best I can describe the concept is (IMHO): we are like brand new swords and the Earth is the fire, so if we are "tested" in the fire, we are made stronger in our Soul.


    On a side note, I also use this parable as an example too: as workers (souls) we are sent out into the fields (Earth) with certain "gifts" and what we do to enhance those gifts is what we carry back to the Master (God) at the end of the day (death).


    Just this one man's opinion on a complex concept!
     
  3. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    I would presume that a spirit, who is not willing to reincarnate, would, therefore, have very little opportunity to discover one's relationship with other souls. For, to refuse coming back would be to turn one's back on those who desire to develop. All that I have read seems to indicate that the ultimate goal in life is to discover our connection with each other. The ultimate punishment for refusing this goal is to end up utterly alone and segregated. And that, in itself, would be a self-imposed hell.


    Although I do believe that coming back is our choice, alone; I also believe that not one of us could reject our duty to each other for too long. After one or two very difficult lifetimes, perhaps; but not forever.
     
  4. Delonada

    Delonada Senior Registered

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    Strangely enough, the time I've heard this mentioned it is usually applied to atheists who believe the end is the end(ie. death) and therefore can't continue as their flesh dies. Their spirit just remains, unable to touch or do anything until it accepts that death is not the end.
     
  5. Green26

    Green26 Senior Registered

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    I see things the other way around from you. Life seems to be about your own individual essence, rather than our connection. We are much much more connected in the afterlife than what we are here:


    There is only one being in our universe—Source. All things that we perceive as physical reality are really thoughts manifested by Source within its own Energy field. And, most importantly, none of it ever leaves the Source. So, I intimately experienced the “knowing” that I am literally part of Source’s thoughts, and the illusion that I am separate from it is a gift from Source to itself in order that Source might fully explore its own personality and creativity.


    http://ndestories.org/nanci-danison/

    From what I have read it seems to be impossible to be separated in the afterlife. Separation and segregation seems to be a here thing, not a there thing.
     
  6. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    Although I tend to believe such stories as Nanci D's, and have experienced such a state, myself; I find the fact inescapable that we are generally left without such knowledge and understanding while in this physical state. And, the consistent message from those who have witnessed the other side seems to be overwhelmingly that we must learn in the physical state what we already may know in the spiritual state.


    The "Why?" of this is unknown to me, and may be difficult to comprehend, even if it could be known. However, I think it may have something to do with understanding the different levels of knowing. Most of us are aware of the two forms of learning while in the physical state. Reading books and watching videos, for example, may help us to know certain things, and can enable us to pass certain academic tests. While putting that academic knowledge to practical use can be quite another matter.


    It may be that knowledge and experience both may be known to us in the afterlife, but that how we apply this knowledge during life may be the big difference. The measure of one's character, for example, may be decided during this life. For, we may come to know everything in this life and still not know how to apply it.
     
  7. Green26

    Green26 Senior Registered

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    There are videos of Nanci Danison floating around on youtube, and it would seem to me that we are here to experience what we know or hypothesize in spirit, as opposed to learning, there is a difference, at least in my mind, between being here to learn something and being here to have an experience. In other words when life is over there is no grade, no pass or fail, it is merely just an experience, which has been created and continues to exist in the mind of the source eternally, even after we have departed this earth. Also, if we were here to learn something here that we already know in spirit, why learn it again here? Anyway, just some thoughts.
     
  8. Eevee

    Eevee Administrator Emeritus Staff Member Super Moderator

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    My opinion, from what I have read, is that Souls are free in their choice to reincarnate. Also keep in mind that Time in the afterlife is not as in our physical world. A Soul can maybe 'rest' a few 1000 years before it gets bored on the Other Side, and decides to reincarnate again. And as for choosing easy lives, I also read that mostly the opposite is true, Souls often choose a harder life than their Guides recommend. Also, when returning to the Spirit World after death in the physical, it seems that we ourselves are our most critical judges, and the Higher Beings or Guides are much more tolerant with us.


    It might also be possible that Souls who really don't want to reincarnate, are assigned tasks to their liking in the Spirit World, for as long as they wish. It seems eventually the Souls can't resist the longing to reincarnate again. Maybe 'Time heals all wounds' or 'The grass always looks greener on the other side'...


    I don't know if all of this is true, but it seems reasonable to me. I got most of that information from Michael Newton's "Destiny of Souls".


    Eevee
     
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  9. Kohr-Ah

    Kohr-Ah New Member

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    Everything that I have read about this subject seems to negate that view. Reincarnation research, ndes, obes, shared death visions, deathbed visions, apparition cases and medium cases seem to prove that separation and segregation in the afterlife is real thing.


    All life may be connected, but that still doesn't mean that everything is part of some collective mass.
     
  10. msmir

    msmir New Member

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    It is true, if we never come back what will we learn? I know there are tasks to take care of on the other side. But I am sure whatever is done is nothing that can compare to what we deal with on Earth. Earth is school for the soul. And like everyone has taken some very difficult courses in school... the soul must experience some difficult lives. But after taking the course, and then finding out that you finished the course with a good passing grade.. it's a great feeling because not only have we passed the course but we have gained so much more knowledge from taking it.. that is how we will be feeling at the end of our lives after living a difficult life. We then end up coming back home with so much more knowledge. And yes the soul is ready to take on whatever but the guides are like as mentioned the ones who understand how the ego works and says "not too fast". Like at school too, we may be given breaks and end up taking simpler and less stressful courses.. just like we will live more lives where we are meant to take it easy.. such as being born into a rich family and taking it for granted... but the problem is.. after taking such an easy course, you will find yourself not taking any of it so seriously and do not end up learning a whole lot from it. That is the risk when you do end up living an easier life. But I do believe sometimes it is a must to live a quieter life with less challenges especially if you have had 4 or 5 prior lifetimes filled with heartache and too many challenges.


    But remember something else. If you are taking a course that is truly too difficult for you to handle after putting in the best effort that you possibly could.. you will have no choice but to give it up because it is just too much to take on like in my case when I was in university taking statistics.. that was just doing nothing but stressing me out and making me sick so I have to stop. And as we do plan our lives, there is always free will. Sometimes things happen, more than what you can handle or were meant to handle in this incarnation..and when that happens, you will end up having to take the next exit point. I am not talking about egotistical suicide (because that is a tricky topic in some cases suicide may have been what was needed in some rare situations if you truly know on a soul level what had happened to you is too much and those kinds of suicides are not pre-planned)... But honestly, I know I still have a lot to learn.. but I have had so many lives and truthfully I hope once my time is up... I take a nice and long rest. I am tired LOL.
     
  11. hydrolad

    hydrolad Senior Moderator Super Moderator

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    To: msmir


    msmir wrote and I quote: Sometimes things happen, more than what you can handle or were meant to handle in this incarnation..and when that happens, you will end up having to take the next exit point.


    I pretty much agree with the concept of "Exit Points" even though there are some Past Life (PL) believers who are not aware of this concept, much less the general "lay" public who, except for a certain percentage, DO NOT even believe in Reincarnation, because they for the most part, consider Reincarnation to be an Eastern kind of religion or because if it is NOT in the Bible, it doesn't exist!


    IMHO, it is blind obedience like this (to their mainstream denominations) that prevents most Christians from researching and believing in Reincarnation in the first place, well, I don't remember seeing the word "Oxygen" in the Bible, but it exists all around us, for us to breathe!


    Either an Exit Point hasn't presented itself to me yet or I let one pass me by, for after the accident that caused me to retire from the FD, and being left handicapped and disabled, if I didn't avail myself of one back then, I must have something left to do still in this lifetime, I just don't know yet!
     
  12. usetawuz

    usetawuz Senior Registered

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    I read a guy's transcript of an akashic reading he had and this lifetime was his first on earth. He was not a "new" soul, however he had only been here previously in guidance capacities and providing some sort of soul support position. He was having difficulty in this life connecting with other people in a meaningful way and looking for answers everywhere.


    I only share this to illustrate the idea that not everyone incarnates, and of those that do incarnate, those of us incarnating on our earth apparently achieve something remarkable. I've read and heard that earth has one of the largest varieties of experiences available, and some very highly developed souls have had difficulty staying on the path they had chosen to follow while on earth. My understanding is that it takes a strong soul to step into a body and deal with the level of density and low vibration inherent in an earthly existence...the difference between being one with everything in the afterlife and the effectiveness of our illusion of individuality and "aloneness" while incarnate can be almost crippling to a soul based in love.


    My understanding of a soul's obligation to incarnate is less something one must do, but rather, if that is the course of experience chosen, guidance will assist you in achieving your goals. In the event a soul's experiences become too much for that soul to handle, and no amount of outside assistance can change that, there are other ways of obtaining the requisite level of experience and growth.
     
  13. Delonada

    Delonada Senior Registered

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    I find these exit points intriguing, and not in a suicide point of view. I know for me there have 4 times between age of 0-20 that I could have died if it hadn't been prevented(3/4 cases because of medical intervention in my cases).


    Technically I could have died at year 0, 12, 17 and 19. Does anyone feel exit points approach or not? That is something I would love to hear about. If some were just in attune with time and some deterministic events, and I know this sounds a bit like a plot of Final Destination or something.
     
  14. kmatjhwy

    kmatjhwy Senior Member

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    Delonada, I also find this concept of 'Exit Points' as interesting for there has been a number of times when I almost passed on to the other side. And it is only by the Grace of the Creator that I am still here. My mother used to say that my guardian angel had to work overtime with regards to me. In fact by what my parents said, I should not have even lived after I was born for I was born 2 months premature back in the 50's. The doctor had told my parents that he gave me no hope that I would live after I was born. But here I still am. There was also a time when I was a young kid that I drank some paint thinner. I was rushed to the hospital and do remember that they had the hospital doors open and the doctor had made me vomit it all up. Another time as a kid, fell off a jungle jim and almost bit my tongue completely off. I lived in Mississippi at the time and when I went to the hospital, the best plastic surgeon in the whole south just happened to be there at the time. There has also been a whole number of other times when could have easily passed on or been severely crippled in life. But somehow to this day am healthy and well with no serious health issues in life. Life is Interesting! I myself wonder about what happens in the Spirit World during these times we have such a close call. As for myself, do think in many of these close calls that I was indeed helped by the other side personally. I am intrigued with this along with all close calls in life like you are Delonada.


    Now Usetawuz, where you said in your above post on where "aloneness" can be almost crippling to a soul based in love. Yes do agree with this statement completely! It seems how much is love, and forgiveness the way in the spiritual realm. Do think that many souls find the lack of love and forgiveness here in this 'Earth Plain' one of the hardest issues to deal with down deep when here in my opinion. Having a lack of Love and Forgiveness in one's life can indeed be sooooo crippling in how many aspects.


    More and more am finding just how indeed wonderful life here on this Earth Plain can be. But how much this society we live in imposes so many things and issues that can indeed so complicate life it seems. So in my opinion rather then life itself but our society we now live in which imposes so many of the hardships it seems we experience in this life. It seems everyone wants love but how few really share and vibrate love and forgiveness it seems. Sometimes I like anymore sitting back and just watching the show it seems. Great Thread!
     
  15. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Former Moderator

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    Many times I have heard the the terms "old souls" and "new souls." It is my understanding that this has nothing to do with the age of the soul since each and every soul always has and always will exist. 'Old' and 'new' is referring to how much experience the soul has incarnating on earth.


    I take this as meaning that there are souls that incarnate far less frequently, if hardly at all.
     
  16. Delonada

    Delonada Senior Registered

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    I actually find it interesting that you can meet people that always talk about that they'd never do this again. Hell, you mention reincarnation to them and they'll say: "If that happens I hope I reincarnate as a blade of grass!"


    Personally I am excited to restart this all despite the inherent risks in being human.
     
  17. Green26

    Green26 Senior Registered

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    Much of the research done on consciousness suggests that the consciousness that survives death is non-local ie has no location, it is everywhere and nowhere simultaneously. You cannot be non-local and be separated at the same time. I would suggest reading a few more NDE accounts, many of them talk of the oneness of all things and that the afterlife is not a duality.
     
  18. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Former Moderator

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    I have found this to be true as well. I have heard that in in the spirit world the higher the level of consciousness we are at, the more connected we are to everyone and everything. One of the biggest illusions of the physical world is seperation and segregation. World would be a much different place if we didn't see ourselves as seperate.
     
  19. Green26

    Green26 Senior Registered

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    A near death experiencer described the reality of the afterlife as following (from an old thread on a NDE forum):


    That's the part that is hardest to explain. It's as if I am purely awareness, and I am the totality of my own experiences, and that is the only thing that distincts me from others. Yet, because I have no physical boundaries of biology, time or space, I encompass everything. It is only my awareness of who I am that distincts me from others, but there are no boundaries. Boundaries in that realm are not boundaries in the way we know them here.


    Also, as you know, I was aware of the presence of other beings, like my father and my best friend, and others that I didn’t recognize. I know that you feel that the presence of other beings may have been created by my own psyche, but I’m not ready to agree with you on that. I actually do sense that the continued are around, in some form or other.


    So, let’s say that I was in a state of pure awareness, and it was the awareness of the totality of me. I still retained my Anitaness. So I was like a Mega Anita, still distinct from others, but only in awareness, because I have no physical properties whatsoever, with no boundaries of time and space.


    Let me see if I can explain this more clearly. I know it's not exactly right, and it's still only an analogy. Imagine that you are completely translucent because there is no physicalness about you, there are no boundaries of where your own Marineboyness begins and where it ends. So you are everywhere, and in every time and every place, yet you know who you are, distinct from everyone else.


    Now imagine I am also in that state, as Mega Anita, also totally translucent, and with no physical body to lock me into a time and place. So I am everywhere and in every time. But I am distinctly me, and you are distinctly you. However, because there are no physical boundaries, there is no separation between what is me and what is you. Now imagine that there are many others. It feels like, although they are distinctly separate people, yet they seem to be encompassed within you, because there is no physical boundary of separation, because you are everywhere. And to them, it's as if you are within them. And there is of course no need for communication. Because you just know everything you need to know, because everyone is contained within you and you within them. I would know exactly who you are, because there is no boundary that separates us, yet we are two distinct entities, separated only by our awareness of who we are.


    I think we sometimes cross into that expanded awareness state from here while still in our physical bodies, which is why we are able to have ESP, and synchronicities, because in our expanded state, we all overlap and have no boundaries. Mostly people stumble on it by accident, but it’s possible to develop it consciously. But when someone has an NDE or STE, they aren't locked into their physical state as tightly as before, so they notice a lot more psychic phenomena taking place in their lives.
     
  20. Green26

    Green26 Senior Registered

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  21. usetawuz

    usetawuz Senior Registered

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    Green, that was about the cleanest and clearest explanation of how we are technically one,while retaining and awareness of our selves I have read. Thank you and I'm going to review the site you provided.


    Truthseeker, I agree that there are no "new" souls...the akashic reading I cited discussed how the subject was not a young or new soul, but rather inexperienced with earth incarnations, while having been highly developed in other realms.
     
  22. msmir

    msmir New Member

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    What makes me laugh about that is that they are the ones that not only come back but come back quite quickly. I know I still have a lot to learn but... I will say this much. I hope after this, I have a nice long rest! We all need vacations too.
     
  23. Eevee

    Eevee Administrator Emeritus Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I completely agree,it is a very understandable and meaningful explanation. Thank you for sharing, Green ! :)
     
  24. msmir

    msmir New Member

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    Hydrolad, I have read from several sources that we are born usually with 5 exit points but some have more for whatever reason. And the reason for that is if we absolutely need to opt out of the incarnation (like having the genuine need to drop out of a course), we can. There are many reasons for that to happen... one being that if we are given truly more than what we can handle in this incarnation, we opt out. Or sometimes if we are just so far from completing our mission to the point that there is no going back, we also opt out. We usually have a life review (without us consciously knowing it and while we are in REM sleep) before we come to the exit point. That is when we make the decision to take it or not. And many times it does involve a serious illness or accident that we end up recovering from well. Or sometimes it presents itself differently by you all of a sudden needed to have your trip cancelled for a family issue (which would have left you upset) and then you find out that if you had gone, there would have been a plane crash...then you count your lucky stars you were not on the plane. And as far as your experience goes, perhaps you were meant to have this experience to live with a disability. And yes it may have been an exit point.. that is if you had chosen not to experience this kind of life. These things are decided before the events happen. So that means you are going to go home in the end with more knowledge! I am sorry, this thread was not about exit points and perhaps the topic can be created in a new thread next time.
     
  25. kemetic18

    kemetic18 Senior Registered

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    This is truly very interesting.


    I wonder though, for example, my last life during the Holocaust was really very bad. If I were presented with exit points in that lifetime, why would I not have taken them? Was the purpose of that life to live the entire horrible experience and learn something?
     
  26. msmir

    msmir New Member

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    This is where it gets even more interesting. You had chosen to live that life for whatever reason. And you actually did end up exiting because it turned out to be more than what you could handle. I don't believe in coincidences. I believe that Holocaust survivors were meant to not only go through that torture but not to exit because they were meant to basically go through that and educate people about it. That was the deal they made with themselves before they were born (or rather the deal they made with the guides) We had chosen to experience that life but if it became to be too much, that is when we left. I know why I not only had to exit in that life, but as a child. As strange as this sounds, before I had incarnated in that life.. I had a choice to either not at all experience the Holocaust but to live a life in poverty being the sole caregiver of my severely mentally handicapped child... or to go through the torture and exit at a young age. I had on a soul level chosen the latter. What is interesting is that I have subconscious memories of creating that soul contract because that kind of thing is what terrifies me to this day... the kind of life I would have lived if I had not gone through the Holocaust.
     
  27. Delonada

    Delonada Senior Registered

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    I must be insane then. Even though I am European I rarely use my vacation days(got scolded for that by my boss since I have so many saved up) so I am looking a bit forward to what path comes up next. Maybe a part of it is that I'd like to live at least one semi-normal life, to get at least to experience normalcy for once.
     
  28. Kohr-Ah

    Kohr-Ah New Member

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    I would suggest reading about reincarnation research, medium cases and apparition cases etc. Your assumption is based only on few NDE accounts. That's cherry picking. The overwhelming majority of survival related research clearly suggests that there is separation and segregation also in afterlife.
     
  29. rjmarzano

    rjmarzano rjmarzano

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    Spirits who refuse to reincarnate


    I think it was in this book where Elisabeth Haich saw her future lives and she had the choice of whether or not to live them out in this physical world:


    Initiation [Paperback] Elisabeth Haich (Author)


    That book is about the Egyptian initiation rites.


    I'm not sure but that may have been the book where she had a vision of herself trying to climb a steep staircase up to the top of a temple. The staircase represented her spiritual journey.


    Elisabeth chose to learn her lessons in this physical dimension.


    She lived a life during World War II where the bombs were falling on the house, everyone in town was starving to death, etc..


    This is a very interesting and mysterious book. She explains things about Moses and the supernatural events that happened during the Exodus story. Moses was also an initiate of those ancient secrets she said.


    She said Imhotep came to Egypt from outer space in a space ship.


    The space gods brought technological devices to Earth. One of these was the famous Ark Of The Covenant which was one of several arks which were kept inside the pyramids back then.


    She also tells a lot about what life was like in Egypt back thousands of years ago.


    Elisabeth was anxious to experience the initiation rites but her father the pharaoh tried to discourage her from getting involved in this at such a young age.


    Her father was the pharaoh, one of the 'sons of the gods', but her mother was a normal person. This apparently created conflicts within Elisabeth. She was deeply interested in the mystical arts but yet she could not ignore her physical desires. It was this conflict that lead to disaster in that experience.


    Some of those people in Egypt like the high priests did not engage in sexual activity. I guess they felt this would only interfere with their very high level of spiritual evolution. This was a very disciplined way of life that involved mystical arts, magic, alchemy, and many other strange things.


    Then again Moses got married according to the bible. So this would appear to be some sort of contradiction if Moses reached those high levels of spiritual evolution.


    Below I'm listing what Elisabeth said were the different degrees of spiritual evolution that the Egyptians believed in.


    Moses reached those higher levels at which point his physical appearance started to change I think. His face started to give off an eerie glow or light.


    __________________________________________________


    Elisabeth Haich talks about the 'seven octaves of God' that she learned about during her past life experience in Egypt.


    These are:


    Physical - Mineral and Plant


    Emotional - Animal


    Mental - Average man


    Intuitive - Genius


    Atmic - Prophet


    Monadic - Divine Wisdom and Universal Love


    Logoic - God/Man
     
  30. Green26

    Green26 Senior Registered

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    It is not based on a few NDEs, but a multitude of phenomena, Michael Talbot wrote a whole book on it called the Holographic universe. You are making an assumption that reincarnation, mediumship, death bed visions etc are not compatible with a concept of oneness. That assumption is not correct. Please provide links to literature that you feel proves otherwise. Here is an NDE for you that convey this concept of a non-dual afterlife:




    http://www.nderf.org/wayne_h's_nde.htm


    Renee Paraslow's NDE http://www.spiritualtravel.org/OBE/rparaslow.html
     

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