The non-local mind...

Discussion in 'SCIENTIFIC and ANECDOTAL research' started by stardis, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. stardis

    stardis Senior Registered

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    Here is a link to an interesting article (blog) where the author talks about science, the non-local mind and meeting Carl Pribram and David Bohm. Well worth reading in my opinion.
     
  2. ChrisR

    ChrisR Administrator Emeritus Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Interesting article, thanks for posting the link stardis. I think there is more than sufficient evidence to show that the mind is not limited to the confines of the physical body. I believe that we are capable of 'transmitting' our energy, I believe that we are literally 'everywhere' at the same time.


    I have a friend who lives in Canada (I live in England), and there is definately a connection between us that has spanned several lifetimes and we often 'communicate' on a semi-conscious level. It wasn't something that I had to learn how to do, it was just there, and I believe it was there before we met in our present lives. We don't converse as if we are face to face, more like we can read each others thoughts and feelings. A few examples, my friend has a medical condition that gives her pain in a specific area of her body. Whenever she's suffering, I also feel her pain in the same area of my body. Whenever I'm feeling sad or depressed, she will often send me an email and asks me what's wrong, without receiving any prior knowledge of how I was feeling. Whether I'm happy, sad, in pain or whatever, she always knows what I'm feeling. It's not a revelation, I know many other people experience this too.


    How can we possibly do these things within the confines of two brains that are thousands of miles apart? Our brains are not physically connected. I liken our bodies to a transmitter, in a holographic universe, our energy is omnipresent, and vibrating at subtly different frequencies I believe. Being connected at the soul level, my friend is able to tune into my energy's frequency, therefore she can feel what I'm feeling and vice versa. It is strong enough evidence in my opinion to suggest that the mind (in part, or all of), lies outside the physical body.
     
  3. fiziwig

    fiziwig moderator emeritus

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    Fascinating. Thanks for sharing that. I've always felt that the origin of the universe is not IN the universe, any more than the origin of a dream is within the dream. The dream is a product of the brain, which is outside the dream just as our physical reality is a product of something that is outside our physical reality. We don't really understand what this other something is, but we try to understand it and give it names like "higher planes", or "the spiritual dimension", or as Bohm calls it, "The Implicate Order", or simply "Other".


    This is why there are limits to what science can tell us. Science is only about what is within physical reality, not what causes physical reality.
     
  4. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    That was interesting!


    What if our physical body can be compared to a "dumb" terminal, which is limited by programming from the mainframe?


    -Nightrain
     
  5. stardis

    stardis Senior Registered

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    I am sorry, I don't know.


    I am glad that he is still writing and publishing the blog because his thoughts and style are immensely enjoyable and thought provoking.


    A recent post that the blog author made, when Stephen Hawking made the news recently with his comments on fast spaceships and whether we should seek contact with other civilizations, is good reading.


    I probably should have mentioned that the blog is named The Big Study.
     
  6. ~Ophelia~

    ~Ophelia~ New Member

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    I read about them (Carl Pribram and David Bohm) in the book The Holographic Universe. Interesting theories.
     
  7. Goldenage

    Goldenage Senior Registered

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    the dream arising from the dream the dreamer dreams


    Hi Fiziwig,


    But what about the dream that arises from the dream that the dreamer dreams? The dreamer dreams an identity (dream-state-personality) that in turn dreams whatever.... Is this still dependent on the physicality that "constitutes" the brain of the dreamer or does the dreamer, in fact, dream the physicality from which it imagines it arises as the waking consciousness?:angel:
     
  8. dlorde

    dlorde Senior Registered

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    Bohm's 'Wholeness and the Implicate Order' has some interesting themes, although they are speculative.
     
  9. dlorde

    dlorde Senior Registered

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    I don't know if you've ever come across Carlos Casteneda's work (as a Western student anthropologist in the early '70s, apprenticed to a Mexican brujo [sorcerer or man-of-knowledge]), but in 'Tales Of Power', he devotes a chapter to 'The Dreamer and the Dreamed', which deals with the Yaqui indian interpretation of dreams vs reality and the difficulty of a Western rationalist student in understanding their view of it. An entertaining read all round (although it has to be said that his later work is probably mostly imaginative).
     
  10. Goldenage

    Goldenage Senior Registered

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    Devoured Carlos Castenada I did


    Hi dlorde, yes indeed I certainly did read those "brilliant" books. Read some till the covers fell-off. Now I well know that in recent times there have been extensive attempts to "debunk" what Carlos reported but really these are pathetic (IMHO) attempts by "objectivist" materialistic forces to dismiss a legitimate manifestation of the profound. None of the objections (so called) even begin to touch what Carlos reported. How could they do so in terms of what he actually said? My youngest daughter very recently started to reach for the profound and I immediately gave her the original publications to assist with her journey.


    All this when I did not really know exactly what he was on about but I determined to figure it out for myself - he gave me a bit of a start at least. But anyway eventually I found my way to my own ego-self-cliff, jumped off it only to see that it was that same cliff that shattered and I then flew on directly into the abyss. When I eventually clawed my way back into the world's light I did so exactly and directly knowing the full truth of what Carlos had been "on about".


    One has to specifically understand what it means to stand on the edge of the abyss and to then "jump off" in order to catch up to Carlos, really. The doubters should (IMHO) just climb onto the roof of their respective houses, jump off, and then tell the world that "Carlos is full of it" because, they, the jumpers, just wound up busting a few limbs and maybe some heads! LOL:angel:
     
  11. stardis

    stardis Senior Registered

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    When I first read Castenada in the 70's, a friend said that it was a ridiculous book because it was all bs and none of it was true. I loved it reading it though and decided that it mattered not whether it was true because I understood some of it and it made sense to me. I thought that I couldn't tell if the Bible was true but some of it made sense to me and I was pretty certain that the Lord of The Rings wasn't true but some of it seemed to strike a chord in me - so I thought that maybe the truth was in the message. It seemed to be something I needed to think about at that time in my life. In fact, I think that I will read Castenada again and maybe I will find something more that I need to think about.
     
  12. Goldenage

    Goldenage Senior Registered

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    Castenada knew a bit, yes


    Yes, well, telling it like it is will generally attract a load of "incoming" from the powers that be. What is clear thereby is that the threat to the prevailing rotten world view that such unwelcome truths represent is clearly apprehended by some that tread the corridors of power.


    The soul itself, the heart of being, even if subject to endless layers of mind-deadening propaganda is well able to recognize the truth no matter how it is packaged as by (Carlos Castenada, The Bible or in the Lord of the Rings). Thirty years plus will certainly give you the perspective required to deconstruct what Carlos was saying. Good luck, may you succeed, it will be well worth while.:angel:
     
  13. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    Carlos Castaneda began having an influence on me after returning from Vietnam in 1968. I suppose the time was right for considering another point of view, and books like his began shaping a possible new reality for me from that point on -- Not that I was in desperate need of a new reality. God knows, by that time, I was numb to the reality of life and death, war and peace, rich or poor. My childish notions of science, math, good and bad had long since vanished, and I could have cared less whether a .45 slug would have ended it too soon.


    However, the new point of view is what helped me to rejoin the human race. It is what led me back to the notion that I was part of something that could be improved for everybody. It was not an egotistical quest for individual immortality. During the intervening years I have realized that reality as we know it is as elusive as any presumed non-reality, if not more so. And, we are entering a period in which there is more of a common thread to the supernatural than there is to reality.
     
  14. Goldenage

    Goldenage Senior Registered

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    I can relate to that


    Hi Nightrain1,


    I was I suppose, a remarkably slow learner. I recalled in some detail two military past-lives before "waking up" and then sometime afterward, another one as well. They were all replete with very unsatisfactory actions on my part and were all quite unsettling to say the least. The first was entirely the worst by far as I ordered a whole city to be razed and everyone put to the sword, men women and children, simply as a measure of deterrence. Makes me shudder to think of it even now. Time wise, the other two still obediently followed the first as though I was trying to implement the same approach but cleaning things up a bit as I went - thus they became a bit more "political" but blood and death ever remained constant. Not good at all. Very very difficult to explore and take responsibility for.
     
  15. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    It seems to me that our loyalty to "cause", and our duty to protect loved ones often makes us "good" and valorous warriors. But the "real" world seems to be a confusing array of causes, duties and loyalties, depending upon whether our attention is to family, village, nation, the human race, or all life in general. It's easy to say that reality is only what can be proven. But, it's quite another to say WHAT it is we should be doing with our lives. I have proven that I can hurt people. But, I have believed in the past that I was correct in doing so. So, that is where proof and belief exists for me. Those experienced with reality know that it is impossible to do no harm. It is expected of one to sacrifice one's own life for those you love, and, if possible, to destroy those who wish to do you harm. How can one not? To do nothing can cause death and destruction just as easily as doing something that one will regret in the future.


    Of course, it is reassuring to me that three equals the square root of nine. But, in matters of reality, that is not what truly counts. If one's purpose is to correct what we have done wrong in the past; then, what exactly have we done wrong?
     
  16. stardis

    stardis Senior Registered

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    I like to think that we are not, in this life, correcting any errors of past lives. Whether that thought is ignorance on my part, I know not. Sometimes I like to think of the current life as a big football game. We are the players of course, and every so often the coach pulls us out of the game to give us a pep talk, "You're just running around out there like you don't know what you are doing. Remember what you've been taught and get out there and do it this time!"


    Maybe once we get to where we can execute the play with presence of mind, we can then go on to learn some new tricks. I don't think it matters if we actually win the game but that we played with a deliberateness so that the next time we go to sidelines, the coach will say "Now thats what I'm talking about!".
     
  17. Goldenage

    Goldenage Senior Registered

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    Hi Nightrain1, again you raise difficult questions. I know that its hard maybe to see, but there is truly only one consciousness. This has a bearing on what you are concerned with but also shows the way out. The Old Testament commandment “thou shalt not kill” is the key to understanding that it is exactly killing that leads to the impenetrable maze of responsibilities (the confusing array of causes, duties and loyalties) to which you refer and if considered carefully, tells exactly why problems cannot be solved that way. Individuals cannot solve problems in such manner, neither can families, communities, nation states acting individually or collectively - none can.


    Prime responsibility lies in direct relationship to those that you have brought into this world and towards those you directly love. Once you get outside that tight circle things run downhill pretty fast.


    One can propose all sorts of missions as in the nature of doing one thing or another with one’s life but these will just be ego-incited unless your first objective, taking precedence above all others, is to “wake up to the higher self” ie to achieve “attainment”, to know who you really are (remember actually). That and only that was your true objective for incarnating anyway. It is so for everyone, we just forget it that’s all. You get it right or you are compelled to “go round again”. Deceptively simple it appears to be and it is just that. Unless you achieve attainment, what you imagine to be freedom to act on your own part is grossly influenced by shadows of the past.


    Enlightenment arises when you are enabled to interrupt (even if momentarily) the automatic stream of thoughts that the ego-self otherwise manufactures continuously.


    Obtaining Enlightenment in this life means exactly that you will have thrown off all impulses arising from the past with the possible exception of some elements (seed karmas) scheduled to be addressed in this life but which have not yet matured. You do not have to worry about those because your emergent pure being will: 1) recognize these and know how to resolve them without sowing fresh karma; 2) most importantly know exactly what it must do henceforth.
     
  18. Goldenage

    Goldenage Senior Registered

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    Yes, I agree with Sardis - reincarnation is not undertaken to correct past errors but to take note thereof and to try to get it right this time. Past errors are with one always, as a persistent bad dream and real only in the sense of what we make of them. Self understanding is self-forgiveness and self-forgiveness paves the way to true self awareness.


    To the purist past lives are absolutely not real but then neither is the world or the self from that same viewpoint. Its all in how one thinks of one's self.
     
  19. usetawuz

    usetawuz Senior Registered

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    I have indeed experienced the same with my best friend...I met him and from that day immediately we were on the same plane. Recently he called me to ask what sunglasses I was going to buy to replace those I'd just sat upon...I hadn't told him I had sat upon them, nor that I was in the market for new ones...I was and so was he.


    We are both the same age (within five days) and born in late April...our fathers were both military pilots then airline pilots, our mothers were both teachers, we both had younger sisters, we were both raised in non-religious presbyterian homes, we both married catholic girls after an extended courtship, we have interests in all the same hobbies: surfing, mountain bikes, music, wine, cooking, sports cars...the similarities go on and on.


    I meditated on the connection between us and got an incredibly clear view of a previous lifetime...I was in a renaissance drawing room as an older teen...I was dressed very well and was reclining on a lounge in a parlor and was being softly chastised by some upper level administrator for some insolent comments I had made and I remember not understanding what the man was talking about, but politely listening nonetheless. At the man's first pause I noticed a movement off to my left and noted in a wall mirror that an exact replica of me in the same clothes had come out of a side room and stood behind me...it was my twin brother and the administrator was shocked into silence and looked back and forth between us. At this point I realized that my friend and I had been identical twins at some point.


    I called a reader of mine and asked her about a life in which I had an identical twin. She confirmed that my meditation had been accurate and that my friend and I had often played "twin tricks" on those in the court...both good and bad. The good that had come of it was a tremendous connection in life to my "twin" which will continue whenever we incarnate together. We have different purposes and both gain from our similar paths and varied experiences and choices...we are also amazed at the perspective we provide each other...it is as if our alter ego provides a comment in our own words, only using those we didn't choose ourselves, nor thought of ourselves...kind of odd but satisfying.


    And Stardis...the idea that we are not punished for the sins of our past lives resonates greatly with me...I like the idea that our guidance is like a football coach pulling us for the play to remind us of what we were coached to do, and to get back in there and play it as we were coached.


    Nightrain...Castenada actually started me on my path as a 17 year old...although a college professor ultimately told me not to take him seriously because he knew how to do a scientific study and refused to do so...regardless, Castenada's life had changed dramatically and there was no indication why except for his books that weren't to be taken seriously? Something just didn't smell right, either in academia or, from their perspective, in his books...so I let it all go for a decade.
     
  20. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    You might enjoy reading a fairly recent book by Graham Hancock called "Supernatural". As this review of his book says, "Unfortunately, he also has a habit of piling speculations upon assumptions, and then drawing questionable conclusions.". And, I did find sections of his book a little bit difficult to get through only because he severely stretched my normal sense of groundedness, but I was glad that I finally managed to muddle through, because I eventually found some interesting concepts that I had never considered.
     
  21. Sunniva

    Sunniva Administrator Emeritus

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    Hi Usetawuz :)


    Thanks for sharing! The similarities between you and your friend are really remarkable. I'm generally quite fascinated by identical twins and I thought it was really interesting to hear of a twin-connection that covers lifetimes. It makes so much sense that identical twins would have such a connection later on.


    Do you know if you've shared more lives either as twins or with a similar close connection? :)
     
  22. usetawuz

    usetawuz Senior Registered

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    It was interesting that with this same friend, I had had several different impressions...one when he, me and my ex-fiance had been driving to the beach for a wonderfully memorable day, I found later it was a reunion of parents and child (fiance and I were parents while he was previously our child) and that did not resonate with him at allalthough I checked with two of my readers who confirmed the connection...regardless, the twin thing had been a dream he had had several times and he had gotten a lot of the "twin tricks" with girls, with authorities, with parents and relatives...some fun and games while others unfortunately had ill intent. It is amazing the differences between those personalities and ours now...those were remarkably irresponsible while ours now are amazingly responsible.
     
  23. Nightrain

    Nightrain Senior Registered

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    Is a life after death conceivable?


    When one considers the possibility of reincarnation, the discerning thinker must first consider the possibility of whether life after death is arguably possible. As a result of furious arguments by scientists and skeptics that the brain is the source of all consciousness, I've been finding considerable scientific sources who are able to show very good evidence and even proof that the brain is not the source of consciousness in all cases. However, it was a recent non-scientific blog here, which presented the best assessment of how, in Ian's opinion, the brain acts as a filter or receiver of consciousness in much the same manner as a television.


    It is often impossible for any of us to read and understand all of the scientific papers that are available in all the respectable journals. But, I believe in our consciousness and intuition, which leads the majority of us to believe strongly that "self" survives beyond death. Furthermore, it is not such a great reach to believe that life not only has a purpose, but one life is not enough to accomplish that purpose -- whatever it is.
     
  24. Goldenage

    Goldenage Senior Registered

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    science is about the objective universe


    Science is undertaken from the viewpoint that there is something objectively "out there" but if what one assumes to be "out there" is a product of what one, in truth, is then there is no "out there". No brain effecting an interpretive view of the world and so forth for thus one is (we are) the the source and the brain merely appears as a consistent device within that outside "mirage". There is nobody inside the brain and nor is the brain anybody. It is at best, an imagined switchboard co-coordinating our movements within an imagined world, a world which we conjure-up from within our being (so to speak).:rolleyes:
     
  25. hydrolad

    hydrolad Senior Moderator Super Moderator

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    I quite agree with everybody, and to put my slant on the subject.


    I believe the brain is used as an organ (much like the lungs and kidneys) to facilitate the support and the transporting of the "soul" within the physical body during a lifetime.


    And during sleep and meditation, the "soul" communicates with the "Universal Mind" (ET, call home!) and partly in doing so, may well give rise to instances of deep insight, as in say, writing a profound novel or song, or even perhaps a child prodigy or two.


    Just some ideas to reflect on!
     
  26. usetawuz

    usetawuz Senior Registered

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    One more thing about the twin lifetime...my previous twin was the hellraiser while I maintained a fairly even-keeled decorum. In our current lifetime I am the more hell-for-leather guy. I am the one who has taken chances and stepped out without the safety net...not necessarily tilting at windmills, but at least considering the possibility of alternatives to what we were looking at...with his full support, but without his accompaniment. Interestingly, at his wedding reception his father in law truthfully embarrassed the stuffing out of him by telling the assembled crowd of 300 that "I'm not worried about him divorcing my daughter...it took him seven years to decide to marry my daughter, it took him six years to decide which truck to buy, and it'll take him a lifetime to figure out he's not happy!"


    Nightrain, from my standpoint and as you conclude, how can one possibly attain anything near what we are capable of in a single lifetime? I understand for those to whom the idea of reincarnation is new and frightening, it might seem so far out there that it may be as foreign as learning pushtu or understaning particle physics, but step slightly out of the direct line of fire and consider the thought that reincarnation may be the norm and our simple, material-based, societal standards and expectations are simpy the framework within which we choose to experience the lifetime through which we obtain the knowledge we are here to find. It's not the stuff we need to worry about or work on, but rather how we see and deal with the stuff that affects us that makes all the difference.


    As we have discussed, my viewpoint has been broadened tremendously recently, and I find it is true that there is "no testament without a test." And the layers and depths of perspective are difficult to first ascertain and then to comprehend...and between individuals each has their own, and differing ways of seeing and communicating them. All we can do is to hope we can see our own clearly and act in accordance with what we must do for ourselves...we are each only responsible for ourselves...with others, and not TO others.


    Amazing this life we lead...and after this one, another! This previously sheltered child of fifty is now facing the most difficult challenges of his lifetime and the adventure has only just begun...eyes wide and loving every moment!
     
  27. RemainingSpirit

    RemainingSpirit Remaining Spirit

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    Has anyone here ever considered a fractal model for how reincarnation might work? Not the geometry of course, but intelligent energy extending itself through a series of self-similarities going in different directions? We already see how fractals form in the observable universe; what if the single universal mind has done somewhat the same thing, extending a core similarity through a chain of lives (experiences) but introducing variations through the experience of action and reaction?
     
  28. Goldenage

    Goldenage Senior Registered

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    This is indeed essentially the essence of the matter, yes. However it does not matter what one calls it - fractal-ization or whatever. But, this being so it is possible to track-back through these lives to again obtain unity with "the single universal mind". Better yet, find the most important lives, in terms of the deviations (from the purity of the One Self), clarify these by owning the "errors" contained and see the source with relative ease. This may involve from 3-6 (or so) principal lives.Once some significant part of this task is accomplished, bring all the lives concerned into a single focus (+ the current one) and ask: "Who or what am I that thus span space and time" as you view the different lives, their time-frames and geographical locations. Suitably exercised this question will fractionate your current ego-self (as it is forced to face its contradictions) and plunge you into the journey that takes you directly into the Higher Self and beyond to the source of all these lives......:angel:
     
  29. RemainingSpirit

    RemainingSpirit Remaining Spirit

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    Thanks Robin, that was beautifully put. I keep finding this is true in my own lifetimes, the connecting links replicate themselves, again and again, the replications of the present reaffirming what I feel is true about a number of past life memories, and vice versa - past life memory reaffirming what I do with my life this time. Has anyone else seen this in their recall?
     

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