The problem with physical resemblance used as evidence for past lives.

Discussion in 'SCIENTIFIC and ANECDOTAL research' started by Native Son, Oct 24, 2019.

  1. Native Son

    Native Son Senior Member

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    In my opinion, claiming a previous life based on physical similarities is a most illogical argument for the use as evidence of reincarnation. Actually I consider it counterproductive for winning the argument on the truth of reincarnation, since it can be scientifically shown that physical similarities can occur without any connections whatsoever. And if reincarnation is to be taken seriously, it must be consistent, above all. Truth is consistent, and most of all truth is not irrational. If physical resemblance is a truth in reincarnation, then we will all find our previous lives lookalikes, and a series of them, and not just a single coincidental one.

    It is a widely accepted fact that people living at the same time can look similar in their physical features. And I don't mean twins within the same family.

    Scientists Explain How Total Strangers Can Pass for Twins.
    https://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/a19913994/twin-strangers/
     
  2. Jaimie

    Jaimie Senior Member

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    I agree. I do think it is the sum of memories to have been found accurate and the simulatity in looks, the same persona, essence, little things, habits if you so will, that amount to the complete picture when prooving reincarnation, not just the fact that one look alike, which like you point out can be random. I do think the looks in reincarnation can shift depending if it is for example for a certain purpose that one will be viewed differently.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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  3. Speedwell

    Speedwell Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I agree, the fact that present-day unrelated strangers can look almost identical is a good reason why physical resemblance cannot be a primary means of identification.

    Having said that, there are much subtler clues which may appear as a physical characteristic. Think of how our state of mind affects our facial expression or mannerisms. The character, personality and mood can affect how we look. This may be reflected in physical appearance. But bear in mind that for such things as passport photographs, the aim is to subdue all these effects - no smiling or face-pulling. The superficial is what is captured, not the inner self.

    I've seen a number of photos of my past-life self. In most of them I don't much resemble the picture, not a good match at all. But there is at least one where the facial expression, the inner-self showing through was so surprisingly like my own that I was shocked, it felt like looking in a mirror, that person looked more like me than any body-double ever would.

    I suppose my conclusion is: look inside, not outside.
     
  4. Klaud

    Klaud Senior Member

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    I didn't look like any of my past selves either. I was lucky enough to be able to get a good look at a few of them and only one looked anything like me. He had a similar face and hair color, but his hair was a bit lighter than mine.

    The only constant similarity throughout all of them was in the eyes. The color might have changed, but the essence didnt.
     
  5. 4d4m

    4d4m Active Member

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    It has been noted that all of a persons genome is not organized at birth. As a soul looks into his or her parents face as a newborn they begin to mimic that appearance. That is a reflection of how they feel; their bonding experience. This is necessary for the survival of most mammals because of the time necessary to achieve full independence. However, if a soul still identifies with their past life, and to what degree they do, they may resemble their former self. If they are proud of their accomplishments, or in the case of extreme sociopaths.
    It might also be noted that old souls who have had repeated lifetimes might have more of a tendency to appear the same throughout their existence. There are other factors; for instance a person might be influenced as a child by outside forces. or other souls, enough to make them appear as a different person.
    It is correct to say that appearance is not the sole determining factor in this kind of research. The same may be said of birth charts, especially with the current birth rate and reincarnation rate. However, when used together they provide stronger evidence that you are on the right track.
     
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  6. Owl

    Owl Super-alt Mitglied

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    If what you are saying is correct and there's some structural genetic modifications occurring after birth, then that's great news. However, while I heard of certain genes being silenced or expressed during the course of a lifetime due to environmental factors, I haven't heard of the genome not being organized. What do you mean by it? How can a body even be created in a human fashion if their genome is disorganized?
     
  7. 4d4m

    4d4m Active Member

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    The face is still growing, new cells are forming as a child grows. The facial characteristics are not set. The genes in those as yet to be produced cells is not set in stone. Using the expression "the genome is not organized" is probably an incorrect way of saying it, my apologies. There are changes that occur in one's lifetime due to environmental factors, but could there be other factors as well? Could one consciously, or subconsciously change one's physical appearance as they mature?
     
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  8. Owl

    Owl Super-alt Mitglied

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    Well, our genes are never set in stone, otherwise people would not have cancer. Can there be other factors besides environmental factors that affect our gene expression? I think you mean psychological factors, and the answer is also yes too, that's why some people develop a disease after emotional stress. However, the fact that our gene expression is malleable in this sense is not that much proof of reincarnation, maybe even the opposite.
     
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  9. Totoro

    Totoro Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    This is really interesting.. My family and I look almost identical to our past selves. But we've also maintained the same family structure for at least the two recent past lives I know of. My theory has been that your "energy" imprints the development of your body. I suppose if you take an entire family into account, it just magnifies the effect.

    However, I also agree with something that was said in a related discussion. More ethnic families are likely to reincarnate together than those who don't come from those backgrounds. I thought my experience was common, but from talking to people here, I've found, at least in the west, it's not a typical case.

    So perhaps singular reincarnations have less of an effect on their bodies and may be why not everyone has a total resemblances. Overall though, it's only one part of the puzzle. I think by far verifiable, relatively unknown information is the way to go about verification.
     
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  10. 4d4m

    4d4m Active Member

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    That is interesting what you are saying about ethnic families. Possibly a closer bond because of a shared sense of identity and/or feelings of isolation from the larger part of society? The book Mission to Milborough is about a group of people who reincarnated in a community together and with past life regression discovered they lived in a community together previously.
    Owl the malleability of the genes isn't proof of reincarnation. My previous point is that we know of some people who do maintain similar facial characteristics from the past. This is not always the case and cannot therefore be the only evidence one uses in determining if they have found the reincarnated soul they seek. Birth charts can be another form of evidence but are also not sufficient. When the Dhali Lama is sought for by the other Lamas they find all the boys born within the correct time period and then take them to Tibet and give rigorous tests to determine who he is.
     
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  11. SeaAndSky

    SeaAndSky Senior Registered

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  12. Native Son

    Native Son Senior Member

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    For those looking for clues into who they were in their past lives. No one will give us the benefit of the doubt, when it comes to reincarnation.

    Here is something that needs to be addressed by those which place a lot of weight on physical resemblance as being one of the major corroborative points in the consideration for the truth of reincarnation. And we have heard the argument that physical resemblance is not alone the basis for accepting reincarnation, but something that goes towards the overall proof. Fine and dandy, as they say. But, is not truth worthy of consideration, before physical resemblance can be placed on the same column which claims reincarnation to be real? And shall we not all agree that truth is logical, and most of all, the same consistent self when looked upon by unbiased reason?

    Here is what I mean. We have researchers/advocates of past lives who make much to do about physical resemblances. These have come up with a percentage figure for the physical resemblance, which they say is a standard, and meeting the standard is strong OBJECTIVE evidence for making the case that, in reincarnation, spotting this standard physical resemblance is one of the keys for identifying and corroborating a previous life. This too is fine and dandy. But let us look closer, and use this physical standard as they do. And here let me make clear that I heavily favor the truth of reincarnation, and I'm only playing the devil's advocate, before anyone gets the wrong idea.

    Now, let us look at this standard. The 85% physical resemblance is the standard. Let us take someone at random, someone claiming to have been a certain person in a past live, and making use of the 85% physical resemblance standard to fortify the claim made for having been that particular person in a past life. And now, I'm just addressing the physical resemblance, since some will also claim resemblances for past lives' mental/skills abilities.

    If in reincarnation it is a truth that we reincarnate into our next body which is a standard of 85% resemblance to our last one, than this characteristic has to consistent from one life to the next. For instance, let us take this hypothetical case to test the standard.

    Someone reincarnates 5 times from point A to point E. Where point A is the standard starting point. Meaning, that at point A we are taking the snapshot of what we look like, as being the 100% image to be used to test out the standard of 85% for the next life at point B. We then take point B, our 85% of point A, as our standard for the next life at point C, Again, taking point C, our 85% of point B as our 85%, for point D. Finally, we take point D, as our 85% of point E. In this way we have gone through the changes for these lives, and retaining 85% of our immediate past life for each new successive future life.

    Mathematically, to show the expected resulting resemblance for the life at point E from the one at point A, we have this. A=100%, B=85%, C=72.25%, D=61.41%, and E=52.20%. It's obvious to see that in a few more future lives, the physical resemble to point A life will be completely lost, if we are to apply our 85% standard consistently and in all cases. Of course, there are those that cherry-pick with the standard. Who would that be? That would be anyone who claims to have had 3 or more previous lives from their current one, but selects a previous life from 4 lives ago, to then claim an 85% physical resemblance to that one in this current life.

    And we have not even touched on the problems of physical resemblances when a particular soul/consciousness takes on a female body on the successive reincarnation, and vice versa. Or touched upon reincarnation into different races. Then throw in the "monkey wrench" that, as discussed in this thread, the natural tendencies of physical resemblances between unrelated physical human beings, or souls, and our standard 85% rule is further distorted into more nonsense because it's not logical, nor a truthful calibrated standard to be used as objective evidence for making a case for reincarnation.

     
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  13. KenJ

    KenJ Moderator Emeritus

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    With the fact of identical twins and doppelgangers, how could you tell if it happens at all?
     
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  14. 4d4m

    4d4m Active Member

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    I think one could find a definitive reincarnation, proven beyond a reasonable doubt with photos of the subject in both lifetimes to tell if it happens at all. I like the math, as lifetimes progress it is possible for an individual's appearance to change as well. The birth charts do change slightly as lifetimes pass. The mimic of a child's appearance causing their face to resemble one parent or the other is the point I was trying to make above. In the case of a strong sense of self identity, or sociopathy the soul will tend to keep their original facial features. This may not be to the individuals benefit depending upon their past lifetimes. It might even be advisable for someone, say a tyrant, to alter, or have altered, likenesses of themselves from the past. Hiding birth data might also be a tactic used to avoid detection, for instance Hernan Cortes
     

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  15. Vogue_1983.

    Vogue_1983. Senior Member

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    Couldn't agree more.Actually one of my past lives has been linked to drew Barrymore for some reason(bc apparently she resembled me or something) by some "scientist" who made some weird other claims.And mostly the people who have a strong resemblance to some historical figures are famous already,and it seems ridiculous to me that only famous people had a certain past live.
     
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  16. Jaimie

    Jaimie Senior Member

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    yes, in one way it seem ridiculous that only already famous people have already been famous in a past life, unless in perhaps very few cases where the spirit still needs to learn something about being famous or living in that world ? When the lesson still has not been learned ? I think I know what "study" this man has done and I think just like you think -- that it is rubbish.

    What kind off irritates me a little, can't help it, is that someone who has claimed to have been someone i knew in a past life (that later touched fame) does not give out any detailed information about that life, and I can't feel this person's essence as well, but then again I don't know. I know one can be easily manipulated too during meditation.

    One time in my own life I was due to strange coincidences once contacted by someone my past life self's use to know through the Internet. I couldn't believe it. What are the chances of that happening ? I started to think -- if we met in real life -- would this person have thought I reminded this person of my past life self ? It was kinda exciting and terrible all at once, that thought. Like how much was I still alike my old past self ? And if much was alike, little things, would this person think I was deliberately playing to be my past life self, without knowing I still was ? And then would that person not think I was crazy ? And I thought how effected would I be and pretend I was not when meeting this person in real life ?
     
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  17. Totoro

    Totoro Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Forgive me if I already said this, but I think physical resemblance is only part of it. There would be much more similar biographical data I think that could be compared. For instance, my son in his past life wanted to be an engineer and he wants to be an architect in this life. My ex wife in both her lives sold used clothing, first for a living and then for a hobby. I have the same birthday as my last two lives (that I know of) and the day I died is also my mother's birthday.

    There's just so much more too it that needs to be examined than just facial or physical similarities. I think it's just one piece of the puzzle.
     
  18. 4d4m

    4d4m Active Member

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    I have noticed this as well and personally it might be better to not be famous at all. There are other forces at work with reincarnation that should be considered. Certain famous figures are repeatedly famous. The are a few reasons for this. Their souls are different and many people on some level recognize this. Another is the manipulation of people as they are being reincarnated by those using the knowledge for their own ends. One example would be the following three charts. I use this example because of the notoriety and repeated profession of the soul in question. This guy was "put" into these positions of power
     

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  19. 4d4m

    4d4m Active Member

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    I have met people from a past life or lives. When I did there was a sort of realization or epiphany; possibly helped by a guide but definitely from my own gut. I don't necessarily have the details of these past relationships but somehow knew when to use caution and when to trust. That may be the most useful thing. People don't really change that much.
     
  20. Jaimie

    Jaimie Senior Member

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    Hi, how do you mean their souls are different ? Please, elaborate .... all I can think off is that someone has strong drive for success in a certain area that bring fame; like for instance passion for music, or passion for science. I would say there is for sure different personalities and different reasons that leads to a person becoming famous, not to mention those who are not at all famous or have very little fame when being alive and after death their fame grows (thinking of instance on Vincent van Gogh). For a period in my past life I was thrown in the mix of famous people, more fame so than other and different periods in their lives, and they did not strike me as having a different human-soul than anyone else. I think the word fame and famous person is when I think of it such a broad subject; it can be a nun, it can be a car racer etc. To me fame was only an image, a mask, a product; and what was underneath it was far more interesting and less limiting, human to human connect-wise. I know someone in this life that is famous within his line of work and I never think of it unless when he feels the need to explain himself to everyone when he feels as if he has been misunderstood in an article etc, I don't think he is interested in power, he is one of the most gentle and intelligent men I have the luxury of knowing, but he has a strong passion, curiosity and knowledge within his line of work that goes hand in hand with fame. Could you mean that they have a certain charisma about them ? The question then is if the person looking at them would not know they were famous would they still have that charisma ? Or would they have lost their polished-selves in the eyes of certain others ? Who knows ?
    /Jaimie
     
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  21. 4d4m

    4d4m Active Member

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    Not everyone's soul is the same. Why that is is open to speculation. The soul in my example is one of a number that recognize each other and help elevate each other in society(ies) to take control. Other souls our souls recognize for different reasons. We are not necessarily cognizant of it as it's in our subconscious, it's more innate. This fact can be used to program people for future encounters ( in future lifetimes ). If someone becomes famous for doing something they've done lifetime after lifetime, say write music, it's because they've honed their talents and it's easier for them to relearn their skills. Similar to Savant Syndrome.
    The idea of charisma is very subjective. and popularity is as fleeting and fickle in the world as it is in Jr High. Hitler was voted into office. There are certain stars that I wouldn't recognize if I met them in person, simply out of ignorance. There are some individuals I think should be more famous than they are, and some not as much as they are. I think it's a very flattering thing, and a bit of a selling point, to be told one was famous in the past. If you learn to read the charts you can at least determine if it's a possibility.
     
  22. Li-la

    Li-la Senior Member

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    We stay the same but we change... we change but we stay the same.
     
  23. December

    December Senior Registered

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    I was watching 'The World's Most Extraordinary Homes' on Netflix, when I randomly thought of Julius Caesar. I paused the show to look him up. Funny coincidence? Take a look. I think appearance plays a role in reincarnation, while gender, race, and genes come into play. I wonder if Piers Taylor is Julius Caesar.. I think I may be a little psychic, but they say everyone is and just doesn't know it.
     

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  24. 4d4m

    4d4m Active Member

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    Maybe. but I think if I was looking for Julius Ceasar I'd look for someone who was a politician, military officer or possibly both. It would just be a starting point and there's no reason to believe the soul you are searching for hadn't changed. but usually they don't.
     
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  25. December

    December Senior Registered

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    I don't think people have the same occupation in all their lives personally. I think they just keep similar interests, and enjoy things familiar to them. He loves architecture, and Rome has some pretty amazing ancient architecture. I wasn't searching for him by the way. It just popped into my head.
     
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  26. Speedwell

    Speedwell Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Indeed, a vast number of varied types of people are employed today as software developers. In the past they might have been agricultural workers. But each one as an individual could at some point have had some role which appeared in a historical record.

    My own personal view is the world would be a dull place indeed if even after millennia have passed, we expect to still be playing a similar role. I think life is richer and more exciting than that.
     
  27. Jaimie

    Jaimie Senior Member

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    Thank you 4d4m for taking the time to elaborate. I still don't know what to think .Never looked at it from that angle, but thank you for sharing this with me anyhow. I think that Hitler was meant, as horrible as it sounds, to go into office although I can not imagine what horror plan would be behind it, when I start to think in those terms I can't imagine there is a good God. Imagine just "upstairs" as the spirit Hitler is to set out his life plan, and the other spirits go That's great, sounds like a good plan. I mean, what ?! It is more a plan that would have been most likely be created in hell, if there now is a hell, I don't know. But for Hitler to then before have been famous and afterwards perhaps reincarnated and famous again...I just don't get it.

    What I can understand is this, with me for example.What has come out in my past live's experience is that I was tangled up with soulmates that sat on position of power and I just sort of observed them on the side. It has been the same in this life. Both my folks very successful at what they did, both came from working class and were brilliant at school (I don't exaggerate) and so on it went. I can see my dad anytime I want, fighting with words because he would not allow another boss try to pressure things even further so that his men would be at risk, he never ever forgot where he came from and nobody impressed him. He had hell of a drive. They say he calmed down after my arrival, something happened to him, but they say it was a good thing, I don't know because I don't know what he was like before ;) so... (maybe because I was a girl and he felt he had to soften up ? I've never thought of asking until now...)

    It is kinda hard for me to see some of my soulmate not have that drive in what ever they do, I think that is a personality thing that has manifested in their souls. I don't get why I am so different from them, though.

    When I did suddenly end up in my past life in the showbiz world I remember feeling that this was all a joke and sooner or later they were gonna find out they had made a mistake. I was just like everyone else. I did not get it. But there were many of us, and that world comes true as so real in my memories that it sort of crashes with the picture I had (or prejudice I had...) of fame and what fame life was like.

    /Jaimie
     
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  28. 4d4m

    4d4m Active Member

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    I find your story fascinating. Have you pursued the talent that made you famous in the past in this lifetime?
     
  29. 4d4m

    4d4m Active Member

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    I agree but in the case of ancient world leaders worshiped as gods, they tend to come back and do the same thing. There's reasons for this beyond the simple repeating their life patterns. More of a combination of reasons.
     
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  30. Jaimie

    Jaimie Senior Member

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    Thank you :) No, I have run away from it ha ha.

    I had trouble finding out what past life me did for a living. I saw her at a cafeteria helping out when being young so I thought she was a waitress. Then for some time I thought she was into fashion, a sketcher as I could see her in some office doing that and working with clothes and fabric. the way this office was built, it is hard to describe those walls, they were walls, but not walls like I think of walls. They were something off with them, so it was kind of an open space at the same time as there were walls.

    In some scenes I realized she worked as a model. Finally I understood who she had been (but I don't feel comfortable telling here). But the thing with her sewing, wearing clothes she had made herself were true, her family was into that big time. I even remember one designer, a very nice lady who had pins in her mouth and was on her knee and I (she) was standing like a frozen statue. At one point I could see her (me) take this woman's hand and gently putting it over my tummy area. The woman's expression changed. I think it was her (my) way of telling her she was pregnant so they had to perhaps have a second plan regarding the dress she was designing for her.

    Strangely in my life as well from early age people began grabbing my face as if they owned it and wanting me to be a child model but I did not want to.

    I think the case with my past life self was that they were looking for different types of girls, and I was the girl next door type at the start.

    What I remember most from that past life is standing nude in a bath tube waiting for a scene and feeling like a complete failure, knowing this is bad. What hurt me the most is that I was questioned what kind of parent I was for now and then working in the showbiz world, and I mean really questioned. I remember early on thinking I will never work with any of this as nobody will ever question what kind of parent I will be, it was a very strong voice inside of me. Her children were her absolute everything, they were her movie stars, her reason for breathing.

    Showbiz is a most unreliable world, profession. I got myself a good, proper education instead and a stable job that I love.

    What has been with me is my love for music and clothes, that I also had in that life.

    When ever I had experienced memories of someone that turn out famous I would laugh at myself thinking for sure it was imagination.

    /Jaimie
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
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