Thoughts on Reincarnation in the 17th century

Discussion in 'SCIENTIFIC and ANECDOTAL research' started by Deborah, Feb 5, 2001.

  1. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Hi,

    I thought I would share some thoughts from the 17th century regarding reincarnation. We hear a lot regarding ancient religious texts like Egypt, Tibet, and China. We hear a lot of New Age thoughts too. Here's some thoughts from a Hollander who in the 17th century lived much of his life in England -Baron van Helmont.

    This quotation is taken from Baron van Helmont's very rare work entitled: "Seder Olam, or the Order, Series, or Succession of All the Ages, Periods and Times of the whole World."

    In this volume not only is the preexistence and rebirth of the human soul discussed, but also the development of successive worlds.

    Does anyone know of other great 'thinkers' between the years say 1400 -1900?

    Do those of you who are not 'sure' about reincarnation find notes like this valuable for discussion?

    Love,
    Deborah
     
  2. jdjd65

    jdjd65 Senior Registered

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    Deborah,


    I found it to be very interesting and I'd like to learn more about this guy.


    I'd also like to read any discussion that may grow from this post of yours.


    Sounds like a good idea to me.


    Joe
     
  3. Virginie

    Virginie Senior Registered

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    If you never heard of Emmanuel Swedenborg before, you might be interested in learning things about his life and his works.Here is the address of one site on him. There are many others just search on google or Yahoo to find more about him.I hope it can interest some of you. Bye.


    http://www.swedenborg.com/
     
  4. Virginie

    Virginie Senior Registered

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  5. Bob

    Bob New Member

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    Well, if you look at other religious and cultural traditions you would find lots of people who knew of reincarnation during those and other time periods. In fact, it's probably mostly in the West and the Judeo-Christian traditions that you would NOT find people knowing about reincarnation. So, I believe that the time period is of less importance than what part of the world and what religious and cultural tradition you are loooking at that determines whether or not many people believe in reincarnation.


    As for why many of us are afraid of speaking out about our beliefs - I expect that many of us, probably most of us, have been killed, persecuted and otherwise attacked for our beliefs in past lives. That's why the work we are doing here to educate and support each other is so important.


    Blessings,


    bob


    ------------------


    Healing the Heart of Humanity, One Heart at a time


    You're invited to my website -


    http://www.youaredivine.com
     
  6. Kelly

    Kelly Administrator Emeritus

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    Hi Deborah & All


    I've read so many connotations to Reincarnation in English Literature from the 1400's-1900's from when I was doing all that research for my sister for three years to help her with her degree...and do you think I can remember a name....LOL


    Aside from the obvious and one's already named here (Swedenborg was one of the first who sprang to my mind & Andrew Jackson), I thought of ALdous Huxley...not strictly a writer till the early 1900's in this genre but born in 1884 or something I believe....I've read a couple of his books a few years ago, but I've been meaning to get hold of some his later stuff where he started experimenting with hallucinagenics (sp?)....other to that my mind is blank....looks like I'll have to get my reading hat on again, I'm falling behind...LOL


    Lots of Love
     
  7. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    Hi Kelly,


    I found another good quote!


    English poet laureate, John Masefield said it best, "These eyes of mine have blinked and shone / In Thebes, in Troy and Babylon."


    In an article titled "Reincarnation, the Key to History" By John P. Van Mater -I found the following ---

    ------------------


    Love,


    Deborah


    Lifes experiences weave a tapestry of knowledge
     
  8. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Tell what we mortals are.


    Tell what of old we were.


    A spark or ray of Divinity


    Clouded in earthly fogs, and clad in clay,


    A precious drop sunk from eternity


    Spilt on the ground, or rather slunk away...


    Show fitly how the pre-existing soul


    Enacts and enters bodies here below


    And then entire unhurt can leave this mould.


    Henry More, British Philosopher, 1614-1687
     
  9. Jerry Johnson

    Jerry Johnson Senior Registered

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    Try Cranston & Head! Phoenix Fire Mystery.


    The transcendentalists were into reincarnation or metempsychosis as they called it.


    The 17th and 18th century was alive with thinkers unencumbered by establishment thinking. Today , funding is the establishment!


    Swedenborg is a lightning bolt into the prevailing state religions of the northern European Kingdoms. He was a very great clairvoyant and thinker.


    Buried deep in Freemasonry is the idea of reincarnation. Freemasonry created the United States. George Washington was the North American Grand Poooba . The cornerstone of the Capitol of the New Rome in the District of Columbia was laid in a Masonic ceremony. I come from a long line of Masons. Entire family really. I told my Dad it was tripe. Yet, I am into reincarnation.


    I love the character of Henry Ford in Doctorow's "Ragtime". The character of HF says to Morgan,J.P. "You fool, you spent millions buying manuscripts on the subject, I paid a quarter at a state fair for the same information"


    The Enlightenment was full of reincarnation thinkers. Spinoza ,for one!


    There has never been a time when reincarnation was not an intellectual issue.


    It was muted during the Heresy period. The Protestants were equally as good with the torch as Catholics.
     
  10. I believe the Albigensians (Cathars) believed in reincarnation, and most of their asceticism was, as it is in Theravada Buddhism, to hasten their rebirth as pure spirit into union with God.
     
  11. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    The Sioux Nation


    I found a wonderful reference to the Sioux belief's regarding reincarnation, it was written by Ohiyesa - born in 1858 ---

    We don't hear much about Amercian Indian belief's so I thought I would share. I also found the "twin spirit" reference very interesting.
     
  12. Artzab

    Artzab AS2

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    It isn't a thought on reincarnation in the 17th century, but a thought on reincarnation in the late eighteen hundreds to early nineteen hundreds. A poem by my paternal Grandmother's father. The poem he wrote is called "There Is No Death". I quote part of it in my signature.


    There is no death.


    Death cannot reach


    The things unserved by time.


    Man's spirit does not live by breath.


    Nor needs the soul earth's clime.


    A window shows the candle-light


    Awhile- then is withdrawn.


    It does not mean desertion, just


    The guest has journeyed on.


    -William John Holliday


    I agree with you, Deborah. Reincarnation isn't a very mainstream belief in the west. It's too bad not all people in the west have an open mind about reincarnation. Wouldn't it be ironic if there were actually more people remembering past lives that go unreported in the west than the cases that are actually investigated and documented in the east?
     
  13. Deborah

    Deborah Executive Director Staff Member

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    I found the following on R. Woolger's website and thought it was an interesting bit of history.

     
  14. tiltjlp

    tiltjlp A Recycled Soul

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    What a fascinating thread indeed. It seems to me that a decision was made long ago that it wasn't in the best interests of business, government, or religion for most people to be "free thinkers". Both wars and oppression long targeted individuals who's thought pattern didn't fit the norm. And those standardized ways of looking at spiritual matters are still passed on from parent to child. In America, at least, there are even "spin doctors" who regularly tell us what the news means. Just another way of molding a collective mind.


    I was born and raised Roman Catholic, and during my church going years, I don't recall once anything about reincarnation even being mentioned. To be honest, most of the sermons I remember had to do with the passing of the collection basket, and the need for us all to be generous. One of my friends thinks that reincarnation is probable, while another one thinks I’m a bit “off the wall”.


    John
     
  15. Florence

    Florence Senior Registered

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    I enjoy the TV show "The View" I was watching it today and they were talking about beautiful women.


    Barbara Walters said "When I come back...I want to be dumb and beautiful"


    I think more people than you realize believe it takes more than one life to join the Godhead...
     
  16. hydrolad

    hydrolad Senior Moderator Super Moderator

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    For those believing in Reincarnation (or wanting to believe) I'm posting a simple poem that I wrote years ago (possibly as a teenager).


    I realize I'm no Robert Frost (my favorite), but here it is for your reading:


    Down through the mists of time,


    often without reason or rhyme,



    I find myself living a particular life,



    which is full of stress and strife.



    I know not, why I have chosen these trials,



    or why I have stumbled through these endless miles,



    but like a sword tempered in the fire,



    I have slowly became stronger in this pyre.



    And when this lifetime has finally ceased to be,



    I shall return to my real home to see,



    a grand and glorious place I once knew,



    and shall once again, be an eternal spirit made new.
     
  17. Delonada

    Delonada Senior Registered

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    There are some conjectures that the poet William Blake(one of my favourites) believed in reincarnation. Here is one excerpt of a paragraph from a website(I know he is 18th century, but still):

    from William Blake: What paintings of visions come
     

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