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Past Life Meditation - and Spiritual Presence

Deborah,
In a way you are right when you say “in order to experience -we have to be able to know difference” but rather turn it around and say that experience is the knowledge of difference which arises when the divine thinks itself as separate, as the wave rather than the sea. As movement (thought) arises in being it self-identifies as the result of its imagined experience. It owns the experience, and the owner is the soul (the re-incarnating essence), the personal self, the ego… furthermore “peoples” this experience.

There is a story about Mullah Nassradine to this effect. He was visiting a friend and evening approached so he was about to make his way home. His host warned him to be careful as there was a band of robbers in the neighbourhood. Mullah took off worrying about the dire possibilities and soon spotted some people coming toward him from the other end of the street. Fearing for his life he vaulted over the fence on the roadside and found himself in an open cemetery. Quickly he managed to find an open grave and jumped in hoping to remain concealed. Meanwhile the “others”, part of a wedding party, observed a man coming towards them from up the street. The man suddenly behaved in a strange manner, jumping over a fence to the side of the road and apparently disappearing into the ground. Quickly the wedding party followed him and eventually they came upon mullah lying in the open grave. The foremost of the wedding party challenged mullah by asking him what he was doing inside the grave. Mullah was almost nonplussed and claimed that it was a very difficult question to answer but he went on to volunteer the following: “this much is plain, I AM HERE BECAUSE OF YOU AND YOU ARE HERE BECAUSE OF ME”.

What is seen and at what stage depends only on viewpoint, if you see through a single facet you see one image, through several facets- various differences but the observer is ever one only. It does not help much to clarify the observations with respect to your friend Rob since the whole is your truth of him, split through different facets which you have carved on the prism of yourself cf Dorika.
 
Kris,
I am not sure that anything much is gained by insisting on one terminology as opposed to another. Maya may just as well be described as illusion, fractured simultaneity, multilayered reality, god’s power, reflected consciousness, the working of the divine or whatever. The Self’s comprehension (or momentary lack thereof) of itself is the engine driving either reality or the illusion thereof. Nothing else exists and life is but a dream…….some even call the fabric thereof Maya….nothing but an illusion within the divine consistent enough to be mistaken for the real. But the Reality is only the one in which these states arise –it is only by identity that the dream is maintained, when identity is dropped (I am) that from which all derives is seen.
 
Funny story about Mullah Nassradine LOL...To me that would be as good a definition as any; varying degrees of slapstick:D .
 
Paths to greater understanding

Hi Robin, the story of Mullah Nassradine is delightful!

Your posts are always refreshing to read. I recall reading in more than one of your posts how recall of your past lives woke you up to the reality that transcends all those past lives. Those past lives and even the recall of those lives all happened in maya. Perhaps all of that was an illusion. But was that for naught? We all do not follow the same learning path to final realization. I personally don't see how knowing any or all of my past lives can help add to my understanding of anything in any way.

To transcend maya we need to understand maya. This understanding can be had through divers experiences. Possibly every experience has the potential to teach us about reality if we only took the time to really understand it. Understanding the spiritual presence during meditation may well be Deborah's ticket to greater knowledge. Law of karma plays out in maya and yet I cannot see anyone makng any great strides in spiritual understanding without understanding karma. Understanding the workings of maya is to understand reality.

I do not see myself retracing the path of any of the past seers in my journey. God does not make carbon copies! And then there is a question of what constitutes knowing. As you saw in that other thread, some of those who vehemently claimed to create their own reality in one breath accused me of creating sarcasm in 'their' reality in the next breath. Understanding reality is more than just saying so. There are no short cuts to nirvana.
 
Kris,
I agree with you that "god" does not make carbon copies. Every person has their own pathway to consider. Even such a well-trodden one such as that defined by Guatam Buddha was exposed to adjustment. Here is a small summery of some of the more well known.

Enlightened Beings:
Advaitic religions (One consciousness alone exists)
Krisna (Hindu) - flute player (ecstasy, bliss)
Mahavira (Jain) - kill nothing
The Buddah (Guatam Siddartha became Guatam Buddha upon enlightenment) (Buddhism)
Dohgan (Zen Master)
Rumi (Sufi)

Dualistic religions (Consciousness divided into creator-god and created –human-)
Jesus Christ (Christian)
Mohammad (Moslem)
Moses (Jewish)

Note: Enlightened beings can also be classified as the Supreme in that it may be said by some that they shine with the essence thereof as opposed to being passive reflectors (normal ego-self).

The Godhead, The Supreme:

Allah
God
Brahmin
Nirvana (wiped-out - c.f. the ego-sense extinguished, perfect transcendence- no formal supreme proposed)

3 Branches of Buddhism (vehicles):

1) Hinayana (Theravada) Way of the Arhats – transcendence of sorrowful attachment to conditional (personal) self, transcendental realization based on materialistic realism – effects of a beginning less and endless chain of causation, (lesser vehicle) earliest tradition arising in India passing to southern Asia.

2) Mahayana way of the Bohdhisattvas transcendence of self rejection – self surrender & compassionate service, arising in India passing to China, Japan, northern Asia.

3) Vajryana (Tantrayana) way of the Mahasiddas, transcendence of both above – all positives & negative aspects of the personal self & experience - the unity of polarized opposites, arising in India passing to the north - Tibet.


The Tao (that which cannot be described from which all derives)

Hindu God-images
Divides crudely into 2 groups

1) Dwaita (dualism i.e. god separate from man) – Ishwara is the personal god.

2) Advaita (non-dualism i.e. god and man the same entity and the universe a product of -The Self - different only in that man has forgotten true state.) The universe is an appearance only - a product of imagination seen as "real" in man's ignorance ie the wave (individual) is the sea (the source). Brahmin-Atman (personal self/soul) are one.

Advaita: all subdivisions for the sake of teaching only since one self alone exists

The Supreme (Hindu)
Brahmin
Breaks down into three aspects:

1) the creator (Brahma) consort Gayatri/Saraswati. Red 4 heads, bearded faces, 4 arms. Somewhat rarely worshiped today – work is finished.

2) the sustainer (Visnu), mode of worship is water(primal waters), blue/black, 4 arms

3) the destroyer (Shiva), mode of worship is fire, the ultimate source of change. Shiva Natarag: the dancing Shiva. Associated, the dance, the movement of Shiva maintains the universe.
Associated concepts
Shiva - instigator
Pravatti (consort) geneatrix (Shiva/Pravati often shown 1/2-1/2)
Ganesha - son of Shiva & Pravatti, protector of women, good luck, prosperity
All represent the Self and overly a universe of consciousness governed by 3 tendencies
1) Action (Rajas)
2) Balance (Satva) - the true essence of the Supreme
3) Indolence (Tamas)

There are also of course many pathways that are unknown since the individuals treading those did not see fit to talk about them. To be sure past lives happen in Maya, all are mere illusions created by the Higher Self. All except this one seemed to be very real. This one seems, at the best, to be consistent (from time to time).
 
Advaita and Dvaita are two of the three schools of philosophy that are based on the Vedanta concept that the individual soul (Jivatma) originates and merges with the "Brahman".

The last one is called Vishista-advaita (qualified non-duality).
All of them try to explain their version of the relationship b/n Man, God and the World.
 
Amma,
yes in a strictly formal and academic sense you are right. I did not include it because it is really neither one thing nor the other and, by hewing to a structural analysis, it tries to address both concepts in one breath. Considering that even the two ends of the "scale" (Advaita and Dvaita) depend on viewpoint the insertion of a "halfway house" seems to be unhelpful since the transition involved is not gradual but complete and unequivocal. I also did not menion Samkhya as a seperate viewpoint since it is also just an advanced form of dualism in the same sense as is qualified nonduality (IMHO that is).
 
I have been reading along..........

I apologize for not being around - I have been traveling and just working too hard. ;) I will be back to comment soon. Thank you Robin and Kris -- as always, you both are very insightful and helpful with your posts.
 
Hi deb....interesting experience.....I must admit that it kind of sets me back a half -a-hair because I've had a similar experience myself. Any idea where one could acquire the original om cd? Would definitely like to get my hands on that.
 
This got left out earlier

Deborah, I just realized that I have not explained some terms in my post, Understanding differences. For the sake of completeness here is what they mean.

prajnyA is knowledge or information, akshara means indestructible, taijasa means energetic or composed of energy, sutrAtman means directing or channeling presence, hiraNyagarbha means golden germ or golden egg, vishva implies looking outward, virATa means expansive. These are not necessarily literal meanings of the terms but idiomatic sense of the terms. akshara is also the term used for letters or alphabets. In the above discussion, knowledge or information is paired with indestructible, energy with directing or channeling presence, and looking outward with the physical world of name and forms which is expansive.
 
Presence of Spirits ...

My very first past life recall came about because of a spirit.

I am Wiccan, and that evening had just finished a very energetic rite with my study group. Feeling drained from all the excitement I went straight to bed after everyone left. As I began to drift off to sleep I think I slipped into a trance.

I felt a presence in the room, which in itself is not out of the ordinary for me and my household. While in the trance like state the spirit began to speak to me. Its voice was neither masculine or feminine, and while I did not see the spirit I definitely was aware of it.

It stood beside me the whole time, as I lay on my bed trying to sleep. Most of what the spirit told me I do not remember. I remembered 2 names: Bariskova & Radrajana. The voice also told me that I will begin to meet important people from that particular past life and I will know them when I meet them.

And it's true. I have met people and instantly knew them and recognized the connection.

Another time in my life a spirit has helped me, though not past life related, was when I was in labor with my daughter. I had been seeing this spirit around the house, (his favorite spot was sitting on my pillow on the bed) for a few months before I found out I was pregnant. He was a Native American Indian. Dressed in buckskins, with two long grey braids on either shoulder.

The night I went into labor the baby had turned and was breech so I was not having normal contractions. I decided that I needed to take a shower before I went to the hospital :rolleyes: . While in the shower I had a 10 minute contraction. When I started to slip and fall I felt the spirit hold me up until the contraction passed. Then I saw him through the shower door sitting on the counter near the sink, waiting for me to finish in the shower. As I got dressed and waited for my husband to get home to take me to the hospital the spirit sat on the bed with me. That was the last time I saw him.

And now my point .. :D I think that we are assigned guardians at various stages of our lives. They follow and watch us, help and guide us. If my Indian spirit friend had not been there for me I could have fallen and injured myself and my baby. Maybe this is the same reason the spirit was present during your meditation, to be there to help Shannon and to possibly prevent any harm from coming to her.

Sorry to be so long winded.
Blessed Be,
Rose aka Bariskova
 
Deb, after some time has passed, any new insights/discussions surrounding your incident come up?
 
yeah!

HI Aaron,

She has not done any more meditations, life has her running the Great American Race! She is in school to be a nurse and is finishing up her first year of College. She works part time and has a six year old son. A friend of mine did however ask us if we had seen the movie - The Serpent and the Rainbow after I shared her experience with him. So I rented it because neither of us had even heard of it.

IN the movie - the Shaman (from Haiti) while in ritual -blow a substance from the palm of his hand into the face of the person he was healing or doing the ritual for. This ritual happened several times throughout the movie and seemed to be an important part of the ritual act. It was exactly as Shannon had seen it. Amazed us both. :)

I imagine there was a lot of syncretism between black cultures in the south during 1800's. It appears that her memories - are Haiti based.

Chickenlittle - I will post a new thread in spirit community about the "OM" CD today.
 
Model of spiritual existence - fibre-optic lamp

Dear Phoenix Rising
This may be a belated post on this thread, but I noticed the metaphor/model you offered, of the fibre-optic lamp as image of spiritual connectedness and unity, and take this opportunity to agree with what you have said below. Understanding of the ephemeral or invisible is heavily dependent on mental models by which to order, rank and categorise spiritual perception. A useful model does this by providing the simplest fit between disparate items and ideas. Thank you for this one. Do you have a source for the idea, or is it your own? I have received in meditation a linked set of models which I will eventually teach and/or publish, given time to complete the manuscript. But such models have to be current, and widely known, or they lose meaning. I just hope fibre-optic lamps are around long enough for the usefulness of this model of spiritual existence to endure!

___________________________________________


>If we agree that there is unity at one end of the scale and multiplicity at the other and if furthermore, the scale does not exist but on the contrary perception alone comprehends one aspect or the other then we can think about the consequences from a practical standpoint. The ego is responsible for the subdivision and, the multiplicity has, so to speak, infinity as its limit. The world of spirits, for instance represents multiplicity as an expectation arising from the the apparent multiplicity exibited by physicality - a parallel expectation in the spirit.

It is the ego only that multiplies aspects of the greater-self into fractionated splinters. One recognises an aspect of the deeper self as seperate, as an advisor, as a spirit guide and so forth. Fine as an interim device but there is one self alone and you are (in your depths) that entity. It is merely a matter of perception and each handles it in accordance with its understanding.

The road to integration consists in steps taken to recognise aspects of one's-self. In other words deep meditation is required in order to see that what appears at first to be a seperate spirit is in fact a deeper aspect of one's self only

Think of a glass-rod with a light at one end,the other is pulled out into separate glass micro-fibers. At the tip of each appears a tiny light. These lights look at one another and see each as different (different spirits) but if they look inside they see just one and the same original and only light.

:) [/B][/QUOTE] ;)
 
Hi Peter,

Did you write the second part of your post or did you use a reference?

SO you, Kris and Robin agree that the spirit I experienced in my room - while meditating with my daughter - was an aspect of my daughter. That the spirit she experienced - was also one in the same.

I do not disagree - since I also realize - that reality is a HOLOGRAM...it is the model of the Hologram that I use to understand multiplicity, unity - and ONE. ;)
 
Deborah, here is one way you can understand the 'events' of that day. In meditation, we withdraw our consciousness inwards, i.e. it is now concentrated in our inner sheaths, in my view, the energy and mental sheaths (prANamaya kosha and manomaya kosha) in this case. She got a glimpse into her past life in this heightened state of alertness. I would call her experience re-living rather than remembering. Re-living is accompanied by all the emotional upheavel of the original events. Past is thus experienced in the present. While she was going through her experience you were able to stay in touch with her and thus sense the turbulence of her mind. I don't see any harm in positing a 'third' presence if it helps you make better sense of the experience. I think such a presence is internal to us.
 
Model of spiritual existence

Hi Deborah,
The second part of my post was a quote taken from Phoenix Rising's post on 9.9.04.
Regarding the individuality of the spirit who came to your daughter, of course I can have no valid opinion as I was not there to observe or sense that situation and its intracacies.
However I have occasionally been visited in that kind of way so as to be stimulated into new perceptive capacity for my own benefit. It is their loving interest that interests me most, and leaves me feeling more secure amidst the occasional turmoil and confusion that populates my life. So I can confidently think "all is well", even when it palpably is not, and that the challenge of thinking so in spite of what apparently surrounds me is my test, and security is my benefit. All the rest is of academic interest only.

My best wishes to you and your daughter.
Cheers,
Peter
 
Hi Deborah! :)

The experience your daughter had brought a question to my mind...
What would have happened if she was meditating alone? I wonder if she would have been able to get out of her altered state by herself... :confused:
 
Yes - she would have - because I did not bring her out of it, she did. ;)
Altered states and even deep meditative states are only temporary. In my experience -a person is always in control of how much they can handle and how much they are ready to experience.
 
Thanks for the explanation, Deborah! :)
I asked because i want to try one of my new cds and i was kind of concerned after reading about Shannon's experience...
I will be alone for sure and the thought of "being stuck" in the past scared me a bit... I've read before that can't happen but i thought i should ask anyways... :o
 
If your CD has talking and guided sessions; when the talking stops -that also helps you to step out of the altered state. If you are using the "OM" CD - it is one hour long BUT will feel like you were in meditation for 10 minutes. When it stops...you also will come back to regular consciousness.
 
Hi, Deborah, and all,

As someone who has been researching Voudoo for many years, let me share my gut reaction to the spontaneous regression of Shannon.

It seems to me that Shannon was an adept of Voudoo in that past life. It seems to me she must have had a strong teacher who helped her.

Shannon also sounds like she is quite receptive in THIS life.

My gut reaction is that her teacher helped her. The presence was a teaching presence. This perhaps was a technique that they did in that past life to augment or intensify the trance state and the movement from one dimension (or time period) to another.

Shannon may want to find more training in how to control her trance states and move more easily from one to another. Or she may want to continue her training in the African-American religions if she can find a good, reputable, dependable teacher.

I believe that Voudoo had been much misunderstood, especially by the dominant White culture, for its history!

I have just finished a wonderful book about the REAL history of Marie Laveau:
"Voodoo Queen: The Spirited Lives of Marie Laveau"
by Martha Ward. This book really helped me understand the times in which this particular Voudoo priestess lived and how she worked.

Another great book is: "Jambalaya: The Natural Woman's Book of Personal Charms and Practical Rituals" by Luisah Teish, which is a very positive modern book by a present-day Voudoo priestess.

All in all, I don't think it would be necessary to actually be an initiate of Voudoo to appreciate it for its beauty and worth. I am doing much of this research for a novel I am writing which is incorporating many of my own past life memories from the early 1700s.

Your daughter may want to use something like a Journaling technique (dialogue, also called "automatic writing") to get in touch with the "presence" who helped her have the spontaneous regression. If this spirit is one who wants to help, she may want to establish a positive and respectful relationship between them whereby they will be able to cooperate in healing work or in other positive ventures. (BTW, I work only for the good of all, according to free will. I believe this is the only type of work that is sure to result in good karma. I learned this from Marion Weinstein, who wrote the book: "Positive Magic.")

Another positive Voudoo book is: 'Vodou Visions : An Encounter with Divine Mystery" by Sallie Ann Glassman.

And I haven't gotten this one yet, but it looks very interesting:
"Pulling out the pins: A reassessment of American literary Voudou (Ishmael Reed, Charles Waddell Chesnutt, Gloria Naylor, Zora Neale Hurston, Barbados)" : (Dissertation) [DOWNLOAD: PDF]
by Nancy Sue Olsen

If Shannon wants to, she could learn some African arts like African dancing or drumming in order to get Intuitive information flowing. Basically, though, I feel that if she wants to go into the Priestess mode (which has to do with being a conduit between the spirit world and the earth plane), she already has the material to work with, within her. She doesn't have to exclusively partake of the African-American religions....but can use the wisdoms of all of her incarnations at this pivotal time, here, now.

Of course, this is only a gut reaction; I trust that Shannon can decide in her own soul where to go with the information she got in her spontaneous regression.
 
HI Mar,

I am not sure if I have welcomed you to the forum already. If not WELCOME! It's a busy time of year for me getting ready for classes to start tomorrow. I try to get to everyone - but even with the best of intentions....sometimes posts just slip by me. :eek:

I studied anthropology when I was in college for my BA Degree. I almost minored in it because it was so fascinating. I just loved studying other cultures belief systems. The syncretism between cultures is also a wonderful thing to study. I have been hooked ever since. (Ten years and counting)

You have listed some GREAT resources - I will have to check some of them out. My daughter is fighting Irish -100% but has an African twist to her that amazes everyone. She resonates with the culture and dances to modern music as if she is in a ritual - how to explain -------with a Voudoo style????? She is a powerful young woman - that I hope comes into her own soon. Her healing energy - even amazes me.

Yes - Voudoo has been so misunderstood. It's a shame really. Thanks again for sharing!
 
Heya Deborah :)


Thanks for sharing such a detailed experience :)


In the very first post of this topic, you wrote this:

Deborah said:
(...) I have felt presences with me before in meditations, nothing new there, I have been guided by spirits in meditations..yeah got that. BUT to have a presence be so PHYSICAL and to heighten the experience SO DANG FAST for her is amazing to me. Once I changed the CD - to the Tibetan Bowls only -she was catapulted by the sound and the spirit in the room to an immediate deep altered state and emotional trauma from the past. I tell you - she wasn't meditating more than 2 minutes when it hit.
What are your thoughts about this?
Click to expand...
My opinion is that this CD and "Tibetan Bowls" are powerful PL-triggers for your daughter. :eek:


Such a powerful triggering effect scares me a little bit though. I feel I am not able yet to use such a tool.


I need to respect my pace and to carefully explore my PL-memories with no hurry.


But when I feel I am ready to, I will ask someone to assist me while listening to that CD and/or "Tibetan Bowls". Otherwise, I would feel like I would be opening a Pandora's box. :eek:


Thanks to you, dear Deborah, I am more aware I need a very progressive process in the scope of my PL-regressions. :)


Thanks! :thumbsup:


Kind regards,


Axel :)
 
Sorry vanhalen50one50, we lag. We have not found the time or had the opportunity again since then.


Axel -Tibetan Bells create specific sounds that create binaural beats that do help achieve an altered state quickly. Tibetan Bells, or tingas create perfect binaural beats. Tingas are two chimes connected by a string, each chime is tuned to its own frequency, and when the chimes are struck together, a binaural beat is formed.


This type of brain synchronization brings the left and the right hemispheres of the brain together, and has been used by many cultures and for many centuries. So I don't think the bells themselves triggered the past life experience - it was the vibration, the sound that enabled her to go so deep, so fast into an altered state. ;)
 
Dear Deborah :)


Thank you so much for your enlightening words above :)


They reassure me a lot and really help me better understand the process your daughter and you have experienced.


I appreciate the crystalline sounds of tibetan bells (I previously thought it was the name of one of the tracks of the CD... "Tibetan Bells" song :laugh: )


I do understand what "binaural beats" means because I often use such an effect in pipe-organ music, especially for the lowest frequencies (pedal-board).


The fundamental and its fifth are played at the same time, giving birth to a resulting sound (binaural beats) corresponding to the fundamental one octave below:


C + G = CC, where G is the fifth of C.


I used to study overtones a few years ago: thanks to you, dear Deborah, I feel the need to have a renewed overview on that work. :)


I need the most neutral ("virgin") and soft triggers for unfolding my PL-memories: binaural beats are perfect for me! :thumbsup:


I really enjoy reading your daughter's PL-memories and yours: thanks for sharing all this time with us. :)


Kind regards,


Axel :)
 
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