tanguerra
Moderator Emeritus
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Usually a good idea. Too much attempt by the present life mind trying to analyse things often gets in the way
Recieving information from a source
- Thread starter John Tat
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Usually a good idea. Too much attempt by the present life mind trying to analyse things often gets in the way
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John,
I wanted to get back to you on an earlier query. You remarked, perhaps rhetorically in #326: "Does everyone's spiritual self have within them all of the skills and abilities to do almost anything but are restricted by evolution and the abilities of the physical entity to use them. This all fits in with my journey as BB becomes more and more physical"
Actually, the idea of recovering what was once ours in prior incarnations and even from our source and origin as spiritual beings has long been an idea in philosophy, which in some schools sees teaching as merely encouraging the recollection/memory of what was previously known by the spirit/soul of the incarnate. You will probably enjoy reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamnesis_(philosophy) When you do, you will find out that you're on firm ground with the Greek philosophers in terms of what you have said. For example:
"[Socrates] suggests that the soul is immortal, and repeatedly incarnated; knowledge is actually in the soul from eternity, but each time the soul is incarnated its knowledge is forgotten in the trauma of birth. What one perceives to be learning, then, is actually the recovery of what one has forgotten. (Once it has been brought back it is true belief, to be turned into genuine knowledge by understanding.) And thus Socrates (and Plato) sees himself, not as a teacher, but as a midwife, aiding with the birth of knowledge that was already there in the student."
However, I have had trouble with the language you use about the spirit becoming physical since you first brought it up. Maybe it just means the same thing that Socrates is quoted as having said. Probably one reason the "becoming physical" terminology does not resonate with me is that it doesn't comport with the usual ways in which I have heard such matters taught and discussed. More typically, the idea has to do with the "spirit" which can be considered to have all the potentials you discuss, freeing itself from the grip of the lower self, flesh, etc. in order to become totally liberated, actualized, etc.
That does not bar the idea of the return of the liberated spirit to the flesh (while retaining its liberty and abilities as a completely self-realized spiritual being) for a special purpose. Also, in most versions of Christianity, the resurrection is seen as a re-embodiment of the liberated and perfected spirit/soul in a perfected "body" that is no longer limiting, but serves as the powerful and versatile vehicle of the spirit--often in a perfected/transformed "physical" existence. So, that seems somewhat similar. Overall, I began to wonder if perhaps the biggest problem I have is that you are using different terminology than I am used to. I've spent time with Judeo-Christian concepts and also with Indian and other Oriental concepts. They often have very different terminology, and there are genuine differences, but after a while one comes to see various similarities as well. I have never studied Ancient Egyptian ideas before and still know very little about them (other than what I have been learning as part of trying to understand what you are being told). But I think I am beginning to see some links.
I have some other ideas I'd like to share on this, but I've had very little time lately and am out of time for the moment.
Cordially,
S&S
I wanted to get back to you on an earlier query. You remarked, perhaps rhetorically in #326: "Does everyone's spiritual self have within them all of the skills and abilities to do almost anything but are restricted by evolution and the abilities of the physical entity to use them. This all fits in with my journey as BB becomes more and more physical"
Actually, the idea of recovering what was once ours in prior incarnations and even from our source and origin as spiritual beings has long been an idea in philosophy, which in some schools sees teaching as merely encouraging the recollection/memory of what was previously known by the spirit/soul of the incarnate. You will probably enjoy reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamnesis_(philosophy) When you do, you will find out that you're on firm ground with the Greek philosophers in terms of what you have said. For example:
"[Socrates] suggests that the soul is immortal, and repeatedly incarnated; knowledge is actually in the soul from eternity, but each time the soul is incarnated its knowledge is forgotten in the trauma of birth. What one perceives to be learning, then, is actually the recovery of what one has forgotten. (Once it has been brought back it is true belief, to be turned into genuine knowledge by understanding.) And thus Socrates (and Plato) sees himself, not as a teacher, but as a midwife, aiding with the birth of knowledge that was already there in the student."
However, I have had trouble with the language you use about the spirit becoming physical since you first brought it up. Maybe it just means the same thing that Socrates is quoted as having said. Probably one reason the "becoming physical" terminology does not resonate with me is that it doesn't comport with the usual ways in which I have heard such matters taught and discussed. More typically, the idea has to do with the "spirit" which can be considered to have all the potentials you discuss, freeing itself from the grip of the lower self, flesh, etc. in order to become totally liberated, actualized, etc.
That does not bar the idea of the return of the liberated spirit to the flesh (while retaining its liberty and abilities as a completely self-realized spiritual being) for a special purpose. Also, in most versions of Christianity, the resurrection is seen as a re-embodiment of the liberated and perfected spirit/soul in a perfected "body" that is no longer limiting, but serves as the powerful and versatile vehicle of the spirit--often in a perfected/transformed "physical" existence. So, that seems somewhat similar. Overall, I began to wonder if perhaps the biggest problem I have is that you are using different terminology than I am used to. I've spent time with Judeo-Christian concepts and also with Indian and other Oriental concepts. They often have very different terminology, and there are genuine differences, but after a while one comes to see various similarities as well. I have never studied Ancient Egyptian ideas before and still know very little about them (other than what I have been learning as part of trying to understand what you are being told). But I think I am beginning to see some links.
I have some other ideas I'd like to share on this, but I've had very little time lately and am out of time for the moment.
Cordially,
S&S
John Tat
Senior Registered
Hi S&S Thanks once again for the information.. I don't know where to begin with this post there is so much going on with this subject and me and how it effects me. There is something you my not know about me. As you know I only went to 10th grade at school so I lack education and knowledge. When I'm referred to sights such as in your last post and there is information about Mono, Phaedo and Neoplatonism, I read the words but I do not understand what is being talked about . I have the same problem with books on many of these related subjects, and is the major reason I do not read them..I have no problems with things like the rock circles and north, south, east and west and so on but on these complicated issues I do not understand what is being said
Everything that comes from my meditations is how it is to me... I have never heard or read about them before so I write about them in my own words. That is why you say I use different words to what you are used to.
For these reasons its gratifying when some say what I have said is accurate and/or somewhat accurate.. As you know that often happens
When I talk about the spiritual becoming more physical I don't mean the spiritual will turn physical. What I'm trying to say is, the spiritual develops more and more skills to communicate with the physical. and in doing so becomes more physical, if that makes any sense. It's hard to explain exactly what I mean. To communicate with the physical the spiritual needs to develop physical skills within him the spiritual entity, so in that regard the spiritual is becoming more physical even though he will never be physical in his own right . I hope that makes some sense, but it only scratches the surface of what has been communicated to me on this subject
Regards
Everything that comes from my meditations is how it is to me... I have never heard or read about them before so I write about them in my own words. That is why you say I use different words to what you are used to.
For these reasons its gratifying when some say what I have said is accurate and/or somewhat accurate.. As you know that often happens
When I talk about the spiritual becoming more physical I don't mean the spiritual will turn physical. What I'm trying to say is, the spiritual develops more and more skills to communicate with the physical. and in doing so becomes more physical, if that makes any sense. It's hard to explain exactly what I mean. To communicate with the physical the spiritual needs to develop physical skills within him the spiritual entity, so in that regard the spiritual is becoming more physical even though he will never be physical in his own right . I hope that makes some sense, but it only scratches the surface of what has been communicated to me on this subject
Regards
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John,
I wouldn't worry about lack of education. The more I look around the world today the more convinced I am that we are producing large numbers of educated idiots. Also, I am supposedly well-educated, but when I tried to read through some of the stuff that was being argued about in the wiki article (as the basis of Socrates' statement), I felt my eyes glazing over. I can concentrate and work my way through that stuff if I want to take the time to work at it (and so could you), but most of the time it doesn't interest me. The main thing I wanted to show you is that your idea goes back thousands of years, and it not really unusual at all. So, don't worry about it. Words are important as they give us a way to discuss concepts, but I think knowing the concepts is going to be more important in terms of taking you where you want to go. For example, the concept of remembering past knowledge from prior lives and our original origin as spirits is one you have now (and actually, you had already figured it out or received it on your own). The actual word for this in Greek from the article I've already forgotten myself.
In terms of the "becoming physical"--I believe trying to be everything we are (at our best and most powerful as spirits) wherever we are is definitely something that we are supposed to be doing while we are in the physical, and seems to be part of the teachings of all the great teachers of humankind. The problem is--HOW? First, there is the ethical/character part of the question. Second, there is the knowledge/wisdom part of the question. Third, there is the might/energy/power part of the question. (I suppose others might list them differently, but these are the three challenges that come immediately to mind for me). Another problem seems to be that we cannot really perfect any of them without all of them. For example, the wisdom/knowledge part of the set can only be maximized when our maximum power to perceive/understand is achieved. Here we run into a problem. From everything I've ever heard, the normal human body and nervous system is not capable of containing and manifesting the energies and powers of perception, understanding, action, etc. that accompany full manifestation of the spirit. Seemingly, trying to force the issue can lead to some type of burn-out or death, a bit like trying to put too much current through a small wire.
This problem is where disciplines like meditation, yoga, vegetarianism, energy work, etc.--especially the type that comes under the category generally referred to as activating or raising Kundalini--comes into play. The idea is that the body, mind, etc. can be transformed and purified to a degree that it can be, so to speak, "superconducting" and able to channel the full impact and abilities of the spirit, as well as able to some degree to sustain contact with and channel the power of the divine. This also seemed to be the primary purpose of Western Alchemy, where the idea of transforming base metals into gold hid and/or was a companion to the idea of transforming the human soul in the same way.
Anyhow, how this would fit into your current or next life I don't know. I do know, however, that there are people who (by their account) seem to have experienced various levels of this with an accompanying increase in perception and consciousness, as well as the development of other paranormal powers ("siddhi"). This type of thing is widely talked about in various contexts in Western spiritual circles as well as Eastern (though terminology differs), and you will find tales of Catholic saints levitating and performing miracles as often as Eastern Yogis. I'll not vouch for the authenticity of all such tales, but the point is that this type of idea related to the transforming of people by and in "spirit" such that the powers of the spirit and divine manifests in virtue, consciousness, and power is definitely out there. In Eastern Orthodox Christian circles it is part of a process referred to as Theosis, but whatever the name--I think the concept is very, very old and widespread even though it is seldom realized in the life of believers/practitioners.
All of these ideas also tie into and seem to not only involve, but in most cases depend upon contact with and devotion to some type of divine power or force. Usually this involves contact with and worship of the ultimate divinity, and sometimes with more advanced divinized beings, but you get the idea. Perhaps all of the foregoing in some way relates to the images and ideas you have of the coming of the Sun gods and what they accomplished with the tribes? And, likewise, perhaps this is the direction in which your source is leading you.
Cordially,
S&S
I wouldn't worry about lack of education. The more I look around the world today the more convinced I am that we are producing large numbers of educated idiots. Also, I am supposedly well-educated, but when I tried to read through some of the stuff that was being argued about in the wiki article (as the basis of Socrates' statement), I felt my eyes glazing over. I can concentrate and work my way through that stuff if I want to take the time to work at it (and so could you), but most of the time it doesn't interest me. The main thing I wanted to show you is that your idea goes back thousands of years, and it not really unusual at all. So, don't worry about it. Words are important as they give us a way to discuss concepts, but I think knowing the concepts is going to be more important in terms of taking you where you want to go. For example, the concept of remembering past knowledge from prior lives and our original origin as spirits is one you have now (and actually, you had already figured it out or received it on your own). The actual word for this in Greek from the article I've already forgotten myself.
In terms of the "becoming physical"--I believe trying to be everything we are (at our best and most powerful as spirits) wherever we are is definitely something that we are supposed to be doing while we are in the physical, and seems to be part of the teachings of all the great teachers of humankind. The problem is--HOW? First, there is the ethical/character part of the question. Second, there is the knowledge/wisdom part of the question. Third, there is the might/energy/power part of the question. (I suppose others might list them differently, but these are the three challenges that come immediately to mind for me). Another problem seems to be that we cannot really perfect any of them without all of them. For example, the wisdom/knowledge part of the set can only be maximized when our maximum power to perceive/understand is achieved. Here we run into a problem. From everything I've ever heard, the normal human body and nervous system is not capable of containing and manifesting the energies and powers of perception, understanding, action, etc. that accompany full manifestation of the spirit. Seemingly, trying to force the issue can lead to some type of burn-out or death, a bit like trying to put too much current through a small wire.
This problem is where disciplines like meditation, yoga, vegetarianism, energy work, etc.--especially the type that comes under the category generally referred to as activating or raising Kundalini--comes into play. The idea is that the body, mind, etc. can be transformed and purified to a degree that it can be, so to speak, "superconducting" and able to channel the full impact and abilities of the spirit, as well as able to some degree to sustain contact with and channel the power of the divine. This also seemed to be the primary purpose of Western Alchemy, where the idea of transforming base metals into gold hid and/or was a companion to the idea of transforming the human soul in the same way.
Anyhow, how this would fit into your current or next life I don't know. I do know, however, that there are people who (by their account) seem to have experienced various levels of this with an accompanying increase in perception and consciousness, as well as the development of other paranormal powers ("siddhi"). This type of thing is widely talked about in various contexts in Western spiritual circles as well as Eastern (though terminology differs), and you will find tales of Catholic saints levitating and performing miracles as often as Eastern Yogis. I'll not vouch for the authenticity of all such tales, but the point is that this type of idea related to the transforming of people by and in "spirit" such that the powers of the spirit and divine manifests in virtue, consciousness, and power is definitely out there. In Eastern Orthodox Christian circles it is part of a process referred to as Theosis, but whatever the name--I think the concept is very, very old and widespread even though it is seldom realized in the life of believers/practitioners.
All of these ideas also tie into and seem to not only involve, but in most cases depend upon contact with and devotion to some type of divine power or force. Usually this involves contact with and worship of the ultimate divinity, and sometimes with more advanced divinized beings, but you get the idea. Perhaps all of the foregoing in some way relates to the images and ideas you have of the coming of the Sun gods and what they accomplished with the tribes? And, likewise, perhaps this is the direction in which your source is leading you.
Cordially,
S&S
John Tat
Senior Registered
S&S Thanks once again... You know... what you just talked about is great and as you would understand it is only the tip of the iceberg on this subject.. There were some in Ancient Egypt who had both the knowledge and the understanding on all of this. When I think about it, John Tat because of the situation he was born into and his lack of education and knowledge was the perfect physical entity for BB (my spiritual self) and source to work through and join back together again.. When it began John Tat did not have the knowledge or abilities to stop or question what had begun.. BB is the real me, who goes on and on. It took some time for me to bring that into its proper context. Make no mistake this is all about Ancient Egypt and the future.. When I think about the subject we are discussing and all of the others I know within BB and my source there is a huge dam of knowledge, but there is a dam wall preventing John Tat from accessing it. There are times when a small amount of knowledge spills over the dam wall but that is all John Tat is given access to.. What I do know is BB and my source have both come from the beginnings of Ancient Egypt.. BB reincarnated many times into Upper and Lower Egypt and into Egypt after the unification.. He witnessed it all.. The mothers of the gods will return from the South and West bearing the sign of the sun and will be born to the servants of the gods in the physical
Regards
Regards
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John,
It may be just as well that the "dam" is there for the time being. Unless the proper channels are constructed first, the flow from behind the dam might well devastate and destroy your (and here I mean the true you, i.e., BB's) current physical manifestation, which might well be premature and problematic. Hopefully, you will be able to expand your capacity so as to safely receive the flow of information/power as it continues to arrive.
I remain fascinated by the possibilities of the Ancient Egyptian knowledge, especially if and to the extent they pertain to methods for expanding the capacity of the physical to fully manifest the spiritual entities that we are. Likewise, there are many other aspects of this ancient knowledge that fascinate, but I still have to say that I don't "get it" with regard to most of what is going on with you, nor do I really understand what is being promised in the last sentence you wrote above, nor do I fully understand the Sun gods and what they represent.
Once again, this seems to partly be because the language used is so different from what I am used to, and actually is alien to a lot of concepts that I hold dear. For example, I remain a dedicated and quite convinced monotheist, which leaves me having to scramble for ways to understand how the ones you refer to as the Sun gods can fit in with the ideas of monotheism. I can make it fit in ways that I have previously discussed, by seeing them as very highly advanced/divinized beings reflecting so much of the divinity in their persons, presence, wisdom, power, etc. that they seem divine to mortals like us. This is not unusual in Biblical lore, as the high angels were often so glorious and impressive that men fell down before them and/or even sought to worship them. But in those cases, the Bible makes it clear that these entities refused to accept human worship and referred to themselves as merely fellow-servants of the Most High God. There are also cases where this was not true, but in those cases it is also clear that the entity in question was not merely an angel/messenger in the usual sense, but more of a direct manifestation (called a theophany) of the Most High. So, perhaps that is also an option for me, with the ones you refer to as the Sun gods representing a kind of theophany of some type. But many questions remain.
Sigh! Dealing with the information you receive has certainly not been as much of a challenge for me as it is for you, but it is still a challenge!
Cordially,
S&S
It may be just as well that the "dam" is there for the time being. Unless the proper channels are constructed first, the flow from behind the dam might well devastate and destroy your (and here I mean the true you, i.e., BB's) current physical manifestation, which might well be premature and problematic. Hopefully, you will be able to expand your capacity so as to safely receive the flow of information/power as it continues to arrive.
I remain fascinated by the possibilities of the Ancient Egyptian knowledge, especially if and to the extent they pertain to methods for expanding the capacity of the physical to fully manifest the spiritual entities that we are. Likewise, there are many other aspects of this ancient knowledge that fascinate, but I still have to say that I don't "get it" with regard to most of what is going on with you, nor do I really understand what is being promised in the last sentence you wrote above, nor do I fully understand the Sun gods and what they represent.
Once again, this seems to partly be because the language used is so different from what I am used to, and actually is alien to a lot of concepts that I hold dear. For example, I remain a dedicated and quite convinced monotheist, which leaves me having to scramble for ways to understand how the ones you refer to as the Sun gods can fit in with the ideas of monotheism. I can make it fit in ways that I have previously discussed, by seeing them as very highly advanced/divinized beings reflecting so much of the divinity in their persons, presence, wisdom, power, etc. that they seem divine to mortals like us. This is not unusual in Biblical lore, as the high angels were often so glorious and impressive that men fell down before them and/or even sought to worship them. But in those cases, the Bible makes it clear that these entities refused to accept human worship and referred to themselves as merely fellow-servants of the Most High God. There are also cases where this was not true, but in those cases it is also clear that the entity in question was not merely an angel/messenger in the usual sense, but more of a direct manifestation (called a theophany) of the Most High. So, perhaps that is also an option for me, with the ones you refer to as the Sun gods representing a kind of theophany of some type. But many questions remain.
Sigh! Dealing with the information you receive has certainly not been as much of a challenge for me as it is for you, but it is still a challenge!
Cordially,
S&S
John Tat
Senior Registered
S&S Again I don't know where to begin....confusion reigns... You talk about your belief in monotheism, but do you really understand I mean really understand who god is? If that is not clear to you then it would be very difficult for you to understand who the original gods the sun gods are/were. I have no real understandings about the Christian god so I cannot compare him to the original gods, the sun gods and answer your question of who they are. There would be only a few who would understand about the original gods. I have already said who the original gods are/were.. They were physical gods born to physical mothers who came from the south and east. They came from and returned to a place that was no different to where they were talking to the tribes. Both places are the same. This description of who the original gods were and where they came from is very different to what the scholars of the religions believe who there gods were/are and where they came from. There's are mystical gods who have always been there. Different to what the scholars of Ancient Egypt believe about the mystical and magical gods of Ancient Egypt the original physical gods of Ancient Egypt did not create anything in the physical. It was all there before there time.
The gods of creation are the mystical gods.
During the sacred ceremony when the gods joined spiritually with some members of the tribes, they passed on knowledge and abilities to them that gave them the abilities to turn into physical gods themselves after the original gods left. Again I'm repeating myself for context...I now have some idea what those abilities were. The original gods had the knowledge and abilities of some form of spiritual transformation.. I have no idea what that was or means I only know they had those abilities, and passed them on to some of the members of the tribes.. I only talk about this because would such knowledge and abilities that are neither mystical or magical , but are what they are, knowledge and abilities turn them into physical gods? That maybe is what you are wondering about..
Regards
The gods of creation are the mystical gods.
During the sacred ceremony when the gods joined spiritually with some members of the tribes, they passed on knowledge and abilities to them that gave them the abilities to turn into physical gods themselves after the original gods left. Again I'm repeating myself for context...I now have some idea what those abilities were. The original gods had the knowledge and abilities of some form of spiritual transformation.. I have no idea what that was or means I only know they had those abilities, and passed them on to some of the members of the tribes.. I only talk about this because would such knowledge and abilities that are neither mystical or magical , but are what they are, knowledge and abilities turn them into physical gods? That maybe is what you are wondering about..
Regards
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KenJ
Moderator Emeritus
John,
I do not mean to interfere with this thread or your thoughts, just to agree that the concept and broad use of the word God is confusing in this, and other, threads. My concept of God is "the creator of all there is", an incorporeal force. The Bibles usually add characteristics that lead to thoughts of human-like qualities including sex (He, Father, etc.) and the ability to be bargained-with, but not seen.
When reading your posts, you seem to be talking about physical entities with recognizable properties that are distinguishable from other forms of matter and are human-like. So, yes, your "physical gods born to physical mothers" most definitely differs from an incorporeal force, and thinking that they could be in any way similar can only lead to confusion. It is far easier to visualize what you are talking about with "space-visitors" than the God I consider being at the base of the Jewish and Christian beliefs.
Your statement "...the original physical gods of Ancient Egypt did not create anything in the physical" depicts them as something physical that would be created by the God spoken of by the other beliefs mentioned above. To me this sounds more like the Greek or Aztec Gods than anything else, so it does get confusing.
I do not mean to interfere with this thread or your thoughts, just to agree that the concept and broad use of the word God is confusing in this, and other, threads. My concept of God is "the creator of all there is", an incorporeal force. The Bibles usually add characteristics that lead to thoughts of human-like qualities including sex (He, Father, etc.) and the ability to be bargained-with, but not seen.
When reading your posts, you seem to be talking about physical entities with recognizable properties that are distinguishable from other forms of matter and are human-like. So, yes, your "physical gods born to physical mothers" most definitely differs from an incorporeal force, and thinking that they could be in any way similar can only lead to confusion. It is far easier to visualize what you are talking about with "space-visitors" than the God I consider being at the base of the Jewish and Christian beliefs.
Your statement "...the original physical gods of Ancient Egypt did not create anything in the physical" depicts them as something physical that would be created by the God spoken of by the other beliefs mentioned above. To me this sounds more like the Greek or Aztec Gods than anything else, so it does get confusing.
tanguerra
Moderator Emeritus
The concept of God (however you conceive her) of an incorporeal force that is part of 'everything' is a fairly modern idea. Other cultures have a similar concept in the 'Great White Spirit' and so forth. But in older times the gods were seen as much more like people, and very much 'real' living entities that involved themselves in human affairs very closely.
There were lots of beliefs that people had their own personal gods in ancient times. This sort of experience would probably be described today as a spirit guide, higher being, or guardian angel rather than a 'personal god'. The words and ideas around these feelings have changed, in my view, but the experiences are still very similar.
Just my take on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Mesopotamian_religion
There were lots of beliefs that people had their own personal gods in ancient times. This sort of experience would probably be described today as a spirit guide, higher being, or guardian angel rather than a 'personal god'. The words and ideas around these feelings have changed, in my view, but the experiences are still very similar.
Just my take on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Mesopotamian_religion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Mesopotamian_religion#cite_note-38
KenJ
Moderator Emeritus
Yes tanguerra, I realize that the earlier folk personalized God, but the God described in the six days of creation was not of that type in my thinking. I probably did not express myself very well in my previous post on that point. I'm no expert in this area since I rejected Church at a very early age, but I retain what little I was subjected to way back then plus my readings of the various religious texts much later in this lifetime. There are many I have not read, but I am interested in what others have to say about these things.
Even at a my young age the contrast between the creative force that created everything was quite different from the God that impregnated Mary; that is about the time I decided to remove myself from the Church.
Even at a my young age the contrast between the creative force that created everything was quite different from the God that impregnated Mary; that is about the time I decided to remove myself from the Church.
In a recent meditation I saw a lion head on top of a pyramid. I would be interested in the meaning, as I think it was a symbolic metaphor for something a long, long time ago. If you find anything let us know. I'm going to dig around myself and do the same.
John Tat
Senior Registered
Ken an Tang What you both said is once again is spot on... There is so much going on right now between BB (my spiritual self) and source about the physical gods its difficult to explain how it feels.. Also everything is out there about the mystical gods, like a smorgasbord, they all have there good points but none of them are accurate that's how it feels to me anyway
Deborah.. That was an interesting vision. I wonder why that happened?.. I will try to find out more.. My immediate thoughts off top of my head are... As I have said before the original physical gods arrived with lions and left a lion and lioness with the tribe's before they left.. To me at this time, but these things can change lions are the symbols of the original physical gods the sun gods and the powers they have.. Because BB reincarnated many times into upper and lower Egypt and into Egypt after the unification John Tat gets confused with some of the little knowledge that is passed onto him This vision of yours could be symbolic of many things. BB can remember when the dead were buried into the ground right through to the mighty pyramids of the pharaohs.. I talk about this because the pyramid in your vision represents something. Where it s very confusing to me is when in the jungle of knowledge about these things even though that knowledge is extremely limited I cannot connect the memories to the vast periods of times the memories cover. In other words I cannot tell if a memory is from 6000BC , (or even earlier) or 1200 BC, because there are only memories, with no physical entities. I also do not know If A connects to B connects to C and that connects to D, because they could be all separate memories of the same subject covering thousands of years, so connecting them would give me the wrong answer. That's one of the reasons I get so confused. So when I say BB can remember the dead being buried into the ground right through to the mighty pyramids and everything in between, not only on this subject but plenty of others, then its difficult to say what a particular vision represents, it depends on the time in history the vision is seen,, I will have a guess The lions head represents and is a symbol of the original gods the sun gods. The fact it was on top of the pyramid is significant.. In this instance it feels to me the pyramid is representing the ascension of the gods through the powers of the pyramid. The question is, is something that is relevant to you today or long ago? As I learn more the more I understand.. Another thought.. it could be a vision of you wanting to preserve yourself as you are not only in this life but all the others to follow.. That's got something to do with the spiritual transformation the original gods had the knowledge and powers to do
Regards
Deborah.. That was an interesting vision. I wonder why that happened?.. I will try to find out more.. My immediate thoughts off top of my head are... As I have said before the original physical gods arrived with lions and left a lion and lioness with the tribe's before they left.. To me at this time, but these things can change lions are the symbols of the original physical gods the sun gods and the powers they have.. Because BB reincarnated many times into upper and lower Egypt and into Egypt after the unification John Tat gets confused with some of the little knowledge that is passed onto him This vision of yours could be symbolic of many things. BB can remember when the dead were buried into the ground right through to the mighty pyramids of the pharaohs.. I talk about this because the pyramid in your vision represents something. Where it s very confusing to me is when in the jungle of knowledge about these things even though that knowledge is extremely limited I cannot connect the memories to the vast periods of times the memories cover. In other words I cannot tell if a memory is from 6000BC , (or even earlier) or 1200 BC, because there are only memories, with no physical entities. I also do not know If A connects to B connects to C and that connects to D, because they could be all separate memories of the same subject covering thousands of years, so connecting them would give me the wrong answer. That's one of the reasons I get so confused. So when I say BB can remember the dead being buried into the ground right through to the mighty pyramids and everything in between, not only on this subject but plenty of others, then its difficult to say what a particular vision represents, it depends on the time in history the vision is seen,, I will have a guess The lions head represents and is a symbol of the original gods the sun gods. The fact it was on top of the pyramid is significant.. In this instance it feels to me the pyramid is representing the ascension of the gods through the powers of the pyramid. The question is, is something that is relevant to you today or long ago? As I learn more the more I understand.. Another thought.. it could be a vision of you wanting to preserve yourself as you are not only in this life but all the others to follow.. That's got something to do with the spiritual transformation the original gods had the knowledge and powers to do
Regards
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KenJ
Moderator Emeritus
I'm going to expose my ignorance again, but I want to add something about Egypt and lions that I did not understand until recently. When I was reading Initiation by Elisabeth Haich, I learned that in early Egypt that there were no horses used as draft animals; the ruling class used lions to draw their chariots. Horses were animals found in Asia but not in Africa at that time. Maybe everyone else knows that, but I didn't.
I'm not sure that you could call them draft animals since they were not "tame" according to what I read. She related that they attacked and killed a friend of hers because of something that he did.
It also indicated that they controlled the lions with their thoughts or desires rather than reins and bits.
I'm not sure that you could call them draft animals since they were not "tame" according to what I read. She related that they attacked and killed a friend of hers because of something that he did.
It also indicated that they controlled the lions with their thoughts or desires rather than reins and bits.
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KenJ
Moderator Emeritus
While recalling my reading of that book, and relating parts of it to my wife, I thought I should have said more about the book. If I recall correctly, the author was recalling her life in Egypt, perhaps during the time that John is talking about, and her desire to, and achieving, being instructed and eventually initiated into the higher mysteries (can't recall what she called it exactly).
Also, if I remember correctly, she recalled that life so clearly that she was able to lead archeologists to discoveries and explain some things that were found previously that were not understood.
Also, if I remember correctly, she recalled that life so clearly that she was able to lead archeologists to discoveries and explain some things that were found previously that were not understood.
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John Tat
Senior Registered
Deborah... I have been including that vision of yours during my meditations.. but nothing of any consequence yet What is a symbolic metaphor? I need to know what that is.. I looked up the meaning and only got metaphors.... comparing two words.. I need to know exactly what you mean... If I know what I'm asking for I will probably get something. I need more just the vision is not really working.. Do you believe you have had a incarnation/ incarnations into Ancient Egypt If so do you know who or what the physical entities may have been? I just need more info to mediate on.. Can you remember if the physical entity/ entities were ever mothers?.. If the physical entity was a special type of mother, like the mother of a pharaoh or high priest we need to find that out if possible, because that would change everything. The symbol of the original gods the sun gods on top of the pyramid, is some form of connection to the gods, that I now believe and is all I have got from my mediations, which is not as big a deal as it may appear.. It's just a symbol of your connection to them. Its what that connection is that is important and what they may want you to understand about who you are
Regards
Regards
tanguerra
Moderator Emeritus
A symbol and a metaphor are (kind of) the same thing. They are both things that represent another meaning. For instance, the phoenix is legendary bird that would rise from the ashes, coming back to life. It has become a 'symbollic metaphor' for rebirth and resilience. The lion is symbolic of courage and majesty. The dragon of power and magic.
Many symbols and images have been embued with cultural meanings over hundreds of years.
Many symbols and images have been embued with cultural meanings over hundreds of years.
HI John,
In 2001 I posted (shared) a lot of my memories of Egypt. I was an initiate in the temples 3,500 BC. It's an older thread but others chimed in about their memories too. You might enjoy the read. ANCIENT EGYPT. My first few posts will give you the idea of where I'm coming from. Symbolically the lion has meaning - beyond words. I should just meditate on it and ask. Maybe this weekend.
I'm interested in what you come up with. But no pressure.
In 2001 I posted (shared) a lot of my memories of Egypt. I was an initiate in the temples 3,500 BC. It's an older thread but others chimed in about their memories too. You might enjoy the read. ANCIENT EGYPT. My first few posts will give you the idea of where I'm coming from. Symbolically the lion has meaning - beyond words. I should just meditate on it and ask. Maybe this weekend.
I'm interested in what you come up with. But no pressure.
John Tat
Senior Registered
Deborah..... I have read some of the posts in ANCIENT EGYPT...Some of it is complicated and difficult for me to understand.. There was something you said in post #17 on February 20th 2001, almost 16 year ago.. I quote what you said way back then..
Then I was standing outside in the sunlight yet I could feel the light within my own body (That would have meant you were feeling the presence and power of the sun gods). I stood facing the sun (the gods) and as it rose and I was told (by the gods) that the initiates would be scattered like the wind, but would someday be re-joined for the betterment of mankind.. That's what I have been talking about will happen 16 years after you had that vision.
What is really interesting to me is, I have been told two versions of who the mothers will be of the mothers of the gods who will return from the south and west will be. First I was told they will be very special women of the gods, the keepers of the secrets and knowledge...The second version was... they will be born bearing the sign of the sun to the servants of the gods in the physical.. Both versions may mean the returning initiates will be the mothers of the returning mothers of the gods, and the foundations of a new beginning, just as you were told by the gods in your vision.. Its fascinating to me we both may have been told by the gods about possibly the same event happening under very similar circumstance's not only 16 years ago, but also thousands and thousands years ago in Ancient Egypt.. In a physical not spiritual sense its a little creepy
Its also interesting you talked about the purple/blue light.. when I was talking about the arrival of the sun gods to the tribes there clothes were an aqua colour
I will mediate on all of this
Regards
Then I was standing outside in the sunlight yet I could feel the light within my own body (That would have meant you were feeling the presence and power of the sun gods). I stood facing the sun (the gods) and as it rose and I was told (by the gods) that the initiates would be scattered like the wind, but would someday be re-joined for the betterment of mankind.. That's what I have been talking about will happen 16 years after you had that vision.
What is really interesting to me is, I have been told two versions of who the mothers will be of the mothers of the gods who will return from the south and west will be. First I was told they will be very special women of the gods, the keepers of the secrets and knowledge...The second version was... they will be born bearing the sign of the sun to the servants of the gods in the physical.. Both versions may mean the returning initiates will be the mothers of the returning mothers of the gods, and the foundations of a new beginning, just as you were told by the gods in your vision.. Its fascinating to me we both may have been told by the gods about possibly the same event happening under very similar circumstance's not only 16 years ago, but also thousands and thousands years ago in Ancient Egypt.. In a physical not spiritual sense its a little creepy
Its also interesting you talked about the purple/blue light.. when I was talking about the arrival of the sun gods to the tribes there clothes were an aqua colour
I will mediate on all of this
Regards
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Blueheart
Senior Member
Just FYI . . . Only half of this statement is supported by evidence. The current chronology is that chariots and horses entered Egypt around the time of the invasion of the Hyksos, early in the 18th dynasty, around 1550BCE. This is well after the period John seems to be focusing on, pre 3000 BCE. Horses, when they came, were far too valuable to be used as draft animals. That would be like using a tank or a limo to plow your field. They had lots of slaves for that sort of work, and cattle, as needed. Amenhotep-Huy, viceroy of Nubia, had a tomb that shows a woman in a chariot drawn by cows, if anyone is interested. Again, this would be later, 1320 ish BCE.
Just for the record, there is no evidence of lions drawing chariots in pre-history. That must have come from the author's reported memories.
John, I did read a summary of the book KenJ mentioned, and I have to say . . . you might want to check it out. She seems to have memories that support what you have been saying here.
KenJ
Moderator Emeritus
Blueheart,
I appreciate your critique of my post as it is true that I do not have any proof or background in that area. I was taking the book at face-value; I have seen few books with so many four-star ratings. I was fortunate in getting a used hardcover version at a reasonable price ($4.27). When I read about lions being used to draw chariots I was surprised but then thought about how defenseless horses would seem to be in areas where the big cats of Africa roamed. All in all it was a very interesting book that I should probably read again.
I appreciate your critique of my post as it is true that I do not have any proof or background in that area. I was taking the book at face-value; I have seen few books with so many four-star ratings. I was fortunate in getting a used hardcover version at a reasonable price ($4.27). When I read about lions being used to draw chariots I was surprised but then thought about how defenseless horses would seem to be in areas where the big cats of Africa roamed. All in all it was a very interesting book that I should probably read again.
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John Tat
Senior Registered
Deborah.... I have been meditating on this for a week now....If possible I need some input .... You said you were from Babylon, so in that incarnation you were not in physical form or blood from the tribes of Egypt.. You said you went through a ritual that changed your DNA... that from what I understand would have been necessary because of where you physical came from and what you became. During my mediations about this my source said to me... tell them to turn to there gods and ask them for the forgiveness and guidance. Are you one of them?... You were and must have been spiritually Egyptian back then... Are you today, spiritually Egyptian?... I don't think you can spiritually change .. you must as I did return to your spiritual roots. Maybe that has something to do with why you must turn to your gods and ask for there forgiveness and guidance, that is if you are one of those that needs to do that.. It all goes back to the proper interruption of the sign of the gods on top of the pyramid.. I will keep mediating.. Have you got anything that will help?
John Tat
Senior Registered
Hi Deborah I wasn't going to tell you this but it may be important... While I was mediating on this last night my source told me to find such an image.. He did not give any reasons why I should, but that's how it happens a lot.. He leaves it up to me to do something with them.. This one was obvious.. Well I think it was .It may have had another purpose I will discover later. that's how confusing all of this can be.
Regards
Regards
HI John,
Yes the Pyramid and the sun - at the apex means more than I could tell you. It is a great reminder for me, for who I am and where I came from (soul). I have shared a lot of my memories of Egypt here on the forum, but keep the most in depth stuff to myself. I share with my mom though , her memories even more detailed. The "Gods" for me/her - were LIGHT BEINGS. (Think Holographic and brighter than the sun although it does not hurt your eyes to look at them.). Without going into detail, the purpose of the training, the ritual and OBE with them was to help raise the consciousness of mankind in the future. It is my understanding we are currently living in that time. If all races; all humans would look into the HeartMath program, take action only with clear intentions based on love and compassion, the raising of consciousness would happen for us all and the world a better place.
Namaste
Yes the Pyramid and the sun - at the apex means more than I could tell you. It is a great reminder for me, for who I am and where I came from (soul). I have shared a lot of my memories of Egypt here on the forum, but keep the most in depth stuff to myself. I share with my mom though , her memories even more detailed. The "Gods" for me/her - were LIGHT BEINGS. (Think Holographic and brighter than the sun although it does not hurt your eyes to look at them.). Without going into detail, the purpose of the training, the ritual and OBE with them was to help raise the consciousness of mankind in the future. It is my understanding we are currently living in that time. If all races; all humans would look into the HeartMath program, take action only with clear intentions based on love and compassion, the raising of consciousness would happen for us all and the world a better place.
Namaste
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John Tat
Senior Registered
Hi Deborah.. That was great... I to, do not talk about the real issues and truth about Ancient Egypt... Maybe the following is something I should not talk about but I don't think it's any big deal. The sun directly on top of the pyramid was and is very significant to those of us who knew the truth about the original gods the sun gods..I think we only celebrated the occasion once a year not daily, why I do not understand.. My understanding of this event went back thousands of years before the pyramids were built.. If you can remember what I said in another post and I'm not sure what thread it was I said....soon after the original gods the sun gods left the tribes, I went to the sacred site where we had built rock pillars to the gods. I waited until the sun was directly on top of the pillars then I knelt in front of one of the pillars and prayed and gave thanks to my gods..I was the only one there.. I often why I was. My spiritual self and source makes a big deal out of this event, which I do not really understand why. This all happened and the gods first came to the tribes in what is known as Upper Egypt today, that is something that maybe I should not share but I have. My source told me the tribes the sun gods came to was because of the location of the sun... whatever that means.. That makes no sense to me other than the sun on the pillars at the sacred site... There is so much more but that's enough
micro na ha idi rc fac
micro na ha idi rc fac
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi John,
You have often discussed the fact that the sun gods were physical. Does Deborah's description of the "Gods" she recalls as
"LIGHT BEINGS. (Think Holographic and brighter than the sun although it does not hurt your eyes to look at them.)"
correspond to what you are describing? Likewise, Deborah, does John's description of the sun gods as physical correspond with what you are describing? I'm trying to discern whether we are talking about the same beings. (I also wonder whether the "Gods" Deborah is talking about are some type of holographic projection of themselves sent to a later generation after they had departed--just wonderin' and guessin' and trying to make sense of all of this).
Cordially,
S&S
You have often discussed the fact that the sun gods were physical. Does Deborah's description of the "Gods" she recalls as
"LIGHT BEINGS. (Think Holographic and brighter than the sun although it does not hurt your eyes to look at them.)"
correspond to what you are describing? Likewise, Deborah, does John's description of the sun gods as physical correspond with what you are describing? I'm trying to discern whether we are talking about the same beings. (I also wonder whether the "Gods" Deborah is talking about are some type of holographic projection of themselves sent to a later generation after they had departed--just wonderin' and guessin' and trying to make sense of all of this).
Cordially,
S&S
John Tat
Senior Registered
Hi S&S I will give my take on your question. Deborah will have hers.. The original and only true gods the sun gods were physical.. I know because as you know I witnessed there arrival They came from and emerged from a second sun that appeared in the sky,, After a time spent with the tribes they returned to where they had come from.. A place exactly the same as here.. As the morning rises I go outside and turn to my gods and connected with them.. I connect with then through the light of the sun.. Deborah said she also did this, I'm sure many times.. Maybe she has gone a step further and only sees the light of the gods
Regards
Regards
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Deborah/John,
I'm fascinated by the references to the light, especially references to its color in John's post #348. One of the interesting aspects of Michael Newton's books are his reference to the light that seems to form a back-drop to much or all of what goes on at the between lives level he accessed with his subjects. It is a deep violet or indigo, which is the highest frequency that humans can see, and is a manifestation of "the Source" at the between lives level reached by those still reincarnating. Likewise, according to his subjects, as "souls" grow and develop the light they radiate moves from mixed through lower frequencies toward this highest frequency.
So, something that may relate to what is being discussed or maybe not.
Cordially,
S&S
I'm fascinated by the references to the light, especially references to its color in John's post #348. One of the interesting aspects of Michael Newton's books are his reference to the light that seems to form a back-drop to much or all of what goes on at the between lives level he accessed with his subjects. It is a deep violet or indigo, which is the highest frequency that humans can see, and is a manifestation of "the Source" at the between lives level reached by those still reincarnating. Likewise, according to his subjects, as "souls" grow and develop the light they radiate moves from mixed through lower frequencies toward this highest frequency.
So, something that may relate to what is being discussed or maybe not.
Cordially,
S&S
John Tat
Senior Registered
S&S I'm trying to figure out what is going on with you.. I always thought you were secure with your faith and your god.. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking your not
Over the past six months or so I have become very aware of who I am spiritually and my faith in my gods. I feel no insecurities about either and feel no need to defend them.. I know who I am and where I'm going, I thought you were the same.. Again maybe I'm wrong
My spiritual self has been through plenty, he came from the beginnings of Ancient Egypt.. He is tough and resilient, these things I'm just beginning to understand. Me my spiritual self is proof we are not spiritual clones.. We are not all the same, far from it..I'm also proof that as we grow spiritually we all do not become more god like and benevolent . Growing spiritually has many outcomes, as I said we are far from spiritual clones.. What I'm trying to say S&S is, as you grow spiritually and if that does not fit your perception of who you should be spiritually. then that doesn't matter.. You your spiritual self will find his own way. If S&S does not help this time, then next time maybe a better outcome for you, the spiritual you. As I said I may be wrong
Regards
Over the past six months or so I have become very aware of who I am spiritually and my faith in my gods. I feel no insecurities about either and feel no need to defend them.. I know who I am and where I'm going, I thought you were the same.. Again maybe I'm wrong
My spiritual self has been through plenty, he came from the beginnings of Ancient Egypt.. He is tough and resilient, these things I'm just beginning to understand. Me my spiritual self is proof we are not spiritual clones.. We are not all the same, far from it..I'm also proof that as we grow spiritually we all do not become more god like and benevolent . Growing spiritually has many outcomes, as I said we are far from spiritual clones.. What I'm trying to say S&S is, as you grow spiritually and if that does not fit your perception of who you should be spiritually. then that doesn't matter.. You your spiritual self will find his own way. If S&S does not help this time, then next time maybe a better outcome for you, the spiritual you. As I said I may be wrong
Regards
HI S&S,
I'm not ignoring you - just caught me at finals at the College. I have the weekend off and perhaps we can start a new thread regarding this particular topic? There are so many levels to this (358) that I think it would be a great topic.
I'm not ignoring you - just caught me at finals at the College. I have the weekend off and perhaps we can start a new thread regarding this particular topic? There are so many levels to this (358) that I think it would be a great topic.
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