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Sunny Ray

Ailish

Administrator Emerita
I came across a case study taken from Wiedergeburt - Die Beweise (Reincarnation - The Hard Evidence) by Trutz Hardo.

I thought I'd share it here, since I am curious in your thoughts regarding the story's ending.

" I wish to begin with a story which Dr. Tag Powell, an American friend, publisher, leader of seminars and author of various books and tapes confided in me during the "Frankfurt Book Fair."

"Do you know something Tom?" (This is what my friends call me). "I can tell you about a case of reincarnation that is so extraordinary that it could surely turn every sceptic into a dedicated follower of reincarnation. Even so, I am not allowed to give away the names of the respective couple and their son. I am sure you know this couple, at least by name, since he is a well known author, and he and his wife run seminars and lectures in the whole of America."

I would have loved to know the name of this couple, but I was not going to encourage Tag to break his promise to them. Even so I asked, "Does he run courses on spiritual themes like Reincarnation, Astrology or...?" "No, no!" interrupted Tag, "he's a bloody scientist and one of his books has become a national bestseller. He is owner of many patents. His wife is also a scientist and an author."

The couple in question had a son whom I shall call Michael. When he was a baby he desperately wanted to hold his father's Rolex watch in his hands. He kept reaching for it again and again. As soon as he could speak his first words, he pointed to the watch and said, "Mine!" One day, when his parents called him by his name, he pointed to himself and said, "Sunny." He insisted so long and so forcefully on being called Sunny that his parents gave in and agreed to his wishes. A few months later the young nipper said, "Me Sunny Ray."

His mother quickly accepted this name, which after all meant sunray. So from now on she called him My Little Sunray. One day he told them that he had a wife whose name was Dawn, and that they had both lived in Texas. In his present parents' house they mainly listened to classical music. When the radio played a Country and Western song Michael would sing along, and to their amazement he even seemed to know the words.

One day Michael was looking at a book with his mother that had pictures of dogs in it. All of a sudden he pointed to a white Pomeranian and called out excitedly, "That's my dog Willie!" Even so, his parents never seriously considered the possibility that their son could be talking about something from a previous life.

Some time later when the boy had just turned seven, the couple was running a seminar in Texas. One of the people taking part was Dawn Ray. During a break Michael's father started a conversation with the woman, and asked her whether she was married. She said no and told him, "I have been a widow for eight years." "What was your husband's first name?" "Sunny", she replied. The couple then looked at each other in amazement. Then he asked the woman whether she would please come to their hotel after the seminar because they had something important to tell her.

Once there, they told her that they had a son who claimed to have been married to someone called Dawn Ray from Texas in a previous life. "Did you own a white Pomeranian?" asked Michael's mother. "Oh yes, that was our Willie. He and Sunny were inseparable!" Mrs. Ray now was keen to meet Michael.

Michael's parents phoned home to arrange a flight for him and two days later the seven-year-old was able to fly out to be with them. They did not tell their son over the phone why it was so important for him to come to Texas so suddenly. After collecting him from the airport they immediately took him to Mrs. Ray's house as previously arranged. When she opened the door, the boy recognised her immediately and called out delightedly, "Dawn!" He stretched out his hands and ran into the arms of the dazed Mrs. Ray, hugged her and gave her a big kiss on the cheek.

Finally everyone sat down in the living room. Mrs. Ray, who was still sceptical, asked Michael whether he knew this house. He did not recognise it. On hearing that, she explained that she only moved into this house two years after the death of Sunny. Then Michael asked her whether she had kept his guitar for him. Mrs. Ray was highly amazed at this question. She went to a cupboard and took out a guitar and placed it into the outstretched hands of the little man. Michael held the instrument like a competent guitar player. After a couple of tries, even though the fret board was not the right size for a seven-year-old, he began to play and sing a well-known folk song. This especially amazed his parents, since to their knowledge their son had never played the guitar.

But then he asked Mrs. Ray, whom he now only called Dawn, whether she also kept his watch for him. She fetched a box in which the watch was kept. It was a Rolex identical to the one his father was wearing. Then he asked her for his camera. His parents first wanted to know exactly what it looked like. When he had described it, Dawn fetched it and it perfectly matched his description. Also his pipe, which he wanted to see, had first to be described by him in detail.

Tag closed his reports with the comment, "I would have loved to have been witness to that evening." "Me too," I agreed. "Gosh Tag! That's really an incredible story!" "The best bit is yet to come," he continued. "Dawn sold her house and moved in with the family in California. She looked after Michael, since his parents were often away traveling. When she moved to New York Michael missed her so much that even though he was only fourteen years old his parents agreed to let him live in New York with her. They have lived together ever since."
 
Connection between "Michael" and Swanlarta case

Hi Ailish :),

What an amazing story of spontaneous recall! I'm not sure how I feel about the end of it, though - my first reaction is that it seemed like there was "too strong an attachment", whatever that means. :rolleyes: But I think it's important to note that it may be simply because it violates my culturally engrained sense of what's "appropriate" or "normal" between a boy of 14 and an older woman, a notion that has not been inclusive of past life reunion due to the West's general dismissal of reincarnation being a possibility/reality.

Case studies have shown that when we reincarnate alongside others, the nature of our outer relationship changes while the basic bond remains - two souls may start out as a couple and move through lifetimes as a pair of siblings, a parent and child, then friends who meet under casual to extreme circumstances. This is not exactly the case with "Michael" and his former incarnation, Sunny Ray's wife but I think it may still hold some relevance. ;)

It's beautiful when people can reconnect with loved ones across lives and especially so if one person is in a new body while the other(s) are not. It must be such a profound experience - I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like.

As for the ending of "Michael's" story, I do see parallels between some of Dr. Stevenson's cases with children in India who were reunited with loved ones from their most recent previous lifetime. In most cases, the children with spontaneous memories of their former incarnations showed signs of heavy attachment/identification to/with the life they lived before. Usually these cases involved the previous incarnation dying suddenly, violently and traumatically. For me that begs the question: how did Sunny Ray die and did "Michael" remember this?

Well, moving on, one Stevenson case that comes to mind is the case of Sweet Swanlarta:

Excerpt from the article, Sweet Swanlarta -- A Case From Dr. Ian Stevenson:

In the following years, Swarnlata visited the Pathak family at regular intervals. Stevenson investigated the case in 1961, witnessing one of these visits. He observed the loving relationship between Swarnlata and the other members of the family. They all accepted her as Biya reborn.

Swarnlata behaved appropriately reserved towards Biya's elders, but when alone with Biya's sons, she was relaxed and playful as a mother would be--behavior that would otherwise be totally inappropriate in India for a 10-year-old girl in the company of unrelated men in their mid-thirties.

The Pathak brothers and Swarnlata observed the Hindu custom of Rakhi, in which brothers and sisters annually renew their devotion to each other by exchanging gifts. In fact the Pathak brothers were distressed and angry one year when Swarnlata missed the ceremony; they felt that because she had lived with them for 40 years and with the Mishras for only 10 years that they had a greater claim on her. As evidence of how strongly the Pathaks believed that Swarnlata was their Biya, they admitted that they had changed their views of reincarnation upon meeting Swarnlata and accepting her as Biya reborn (the Pathaks, because of their status and wealth, emulated Western ideas and had not believed in reincarnation before this happened). Swarnlata's father, Sri Mishra, also accepted the truth of Swarnlata's past identity: years later, when it came time for Swarnlata to marry he consulted with the Pathaks about the choice of a husband for her.

How did Swarnlata feel about all of this? Was it confusing for her to remember so completely the life of a grown woman? Stevenson visited her in later years and corresponded with her for ten years after this case was investigated. He reports that she grew up normally, received an advanced degree in botany, and got married. She said that sometimes, when she reminisced about her happy life in Katni, her eyes brimmed with tears and, for a moment, she wished she could return to the wealth and life of Biya. But her loyalty to the Mishra family was undivided and, except for the regular visits to Katni, she went about the business of growing into a beautiful young woman, accepting fully her station in this life.

Emphasis added.

Both Swarnlata and "Michael" not only exhibit strong attachments to their former incarnations but actively return and participate in them as well. The fact that Stevenson reports a happy, healthy, productive young woman leads me to wonder if this is/has/will be the case with "Michael". Do you have any more information on this Ailish? :confused: :)
 
Hi Chansa,

I'm not sure how I feel about the end of it, though - my first reaction is that it seemed like there was "too strong an attachment", whatever that means.

That was my first reaction, too. “What do you mean you let your 14-year-old son move across the country with an older woman?!”

On the second read-through, my perception of the situation changed somewhat drastically. I started thinking of my own experiences, and how difficult it is to express the depth of that type of soul connection to anyone who has not experienced it.

Although I have been fortunate enough to experience many types of "reunions," I have only felt that profound connection --to one person in my current life and it is not something you can easily explain in words – the experience of it outweighs anything you could possibly write, and very few people really, truly understand it. As you mentioned – our Western perception sometimes takes over. ;)

When reading Michael's story -- I thought of how much different my life would have been, had I found that connection to another at his age, and had my parents been open-minded enough to allow me to go where I needed to be, as Michael's had done with him.

In retrospect -- I believe they were both given a beautiful gift ;)

As for the ending of "Michael's" story, I do see parallels between some of Dr. Stevenson's cases with children in India who were reunited with loved ones from their most recent previous lifetime. In most cases, the children with spontaneous memories of their former incarnations showed signs of heavy attachment/identification to/with the life they lived before.

Absolutely. :) Dr. Stevenson has certainly provided us with fundamental research into reincarnation from a scientific source.His cases from India are incredibly well presented. I am amazed at the depth of validation he was able to amass for his research. Anyone who hasn't read his books should definitely put them on their list of "things to read in 2007!"

For me that begs the question: how did Sunny Ray die and did "Michael" remember this?

Unfortunately, that was never mentioned in the article. Very little information was given regarding Dawn and Michael – most likely to “safeguard” his privacy. ;)

Thank you for posting Swarnlata's story,

Aili
 
Thanks, we (my daughter and I) really enjoyed that. Made me remember how my son used to say 'mine' when he'd try to take get the car keys:laugh:
 
Even after reading it a second time, I still felt 14 was too young to go and live with another adult. It seems that the purpose of being born to a different family in a different geographic region would be so that the child can have new/different experiences with different people in his soul group. Seems he would learn different lessons from different folks.

I am the parent of a child that has past life memories and while I listen to him and certainly allow him to speak freely about his memories, I also see an very important need for him to move on with this life.

It just kind of naturally happens as they near 7 years old or so. They become less attached to their memories, speak of them less. If there is any trauma associated with their memories, it too seems to dissapate. This seems to me the natural order of things. There must be a reason that most kids begin to forget at this age. That forgetting and moving on should be given an opportunity to take place.

I understand that some never do forget but it seems that most do.

Vicky
 
I'm so glad you added to the thread, vicky. You made some excellent points to consider, and I really enjoyed reading them. :thumbsup:

vicky said:
Even after reading it a second time, I still felt 14 was too young to go and live with another adult. It seems that the purpose of being born to a different family in a different geographic region would be so that the child can have new/different experiences with different people in his soul group. Seems he would learn different lessons from different folks.

I am the parent of a child that has past life memories and while I listen to him and certainly allow him to speak freely about his memories, I also see an very important need for him to move on with this life.

It just kind of naturally happens as they near 7 years old or so. They become less attached to their memories, speak of them less. If there is any trauma associated with their memories, it too seems to dissapate. This seems to me the natural order of things. There must be a reason that most kids begin to forget at this age. That forgetting and moving on should be given an opportunity to take place.

As a person who has never experienced the same form of reunion, I still feel - to my very core and as Ailish pointed out- that continuing to foster bonds reaching deep into the past can not only be very rewarding but, overall, a beautiful testament to our soul's ability to love. I just worry a bit about how "healthy" or "ideal" it is in some cases, like "Michael's". A small, lingering doubt but without knowing more about the situation, I still can't fully decide.

Perhaps, given the opportunity in this life, to choose whether to go live with his previous incarnation's wife in New York is a necessary learning experience for him and for her because he chose this path. :confused:

In Return to Heaven, Carol covers many cases of family return that illustrate the soul being drawn into their current lifetimes/situations that enable it to sort of "pick up" where it left off. In the cases where updates existed and were accessible to Carol, the children forgot - as you pointed out - over time and moved on, developing healthily, normally as Swanlarta did. The soul is a sturdy thing ;) and it may be/I hope that it is a similar case with "Michael".

Generally, though, even coming from a reminiscer like me, I agree that it's very important to go forward and see how a choice like "Michael's" could seem counterproductive to that. Again, it's an excellent point to consider.
 
I just worry a bit about how "healthy" or "ideal" it is in some cases, like "Michael's". A small, lingering doubt but without knowing more about the situation, I still can't fully decide.

It is difficult to understand -- without having more knowledge of the situation.

Also, it's hard to say which is right and which is wrong without knowing more about Michael himself. Each child is so very different -- what's "good" for one may not be "good" for another. Knowing Michael as they do --- perhaps his parents felt it was the best choice for their child.

Perhaps, given the opportunity in this life, to choose whether to go live with his previous incarnation's wife in New York is a necessary learning experience for him and for her because he chose this path.

It could be. :D From what I gathered -- the parents invited Dawn to move in with them and care for Michael while they were away on business. From my interpretation -- it sounds as if she was treated as family -- like a special Aunt. Having grown up with her, it's entirely likely -- as Vicky pointed out -- that over time his memories faded and he and Dawn simply share a special friendship. Children and their caregivers can have some extraordinary bonds.

Hard to say without more details!!!!

Generally, though, even coming from a reminiscer like me, I agree that it's very important to go forward and see how a choice like "Michael's" could seem counterproductive to that.

I agree -- it's always important to move forward. I, too, hope that Michael is happy and healthy and living his present life to the fullest. :)

Aili
 
Ailish said:
Also, it's hard to say which is right and which is wrong without knowing more about Michael himself. Each child is so very different -- what's "good" for one may not be "good" for another. Knowing Michael as they do --- perhaps his parents felt it was the best choice for their child.

With that level of recall, he's not really a 'child'. He's an adult in a child's body. My earliest memory of childhood includes thoughts that were not childish at all, in spite of the fact that I was in diapers. And although I messed up my recall, my thoughts were rarely childlike. I was like a lot of 'little adults' that I've run across over the years. That's what 'gifted' means.

It's possible that his parents realized that not only was he not "their" child, but an independent and unrelated adult who was going through the experience of childhood again, and instead of trying to force him to behave like a child, they let him be an adult.

It's possible that his parents realized that children are not a blank slate for you to write upon. They've already got a slate full of writing of their own.

Just because the body is small, doesn't mean the person inside it is a child. And just because the body carries your DNA, does not mean that the child is 'yours'.

Most children aren't like that, but you can certainly tell the difference between one who is, and one who isn't. They are the ones who prefer the company of adults and talk to them like equals.

Phoenix
 
Hi Aili,

I don't think T. Hardo did a very good job explaining the story. :butbut: I have his book but only made it half way through - since a lot of the stuff in it was already presented somewhere else - and he wasn't presenting anything new..... for me.

It's possible that his parents realized that not only was he not "their" child, but an independent and unrelated adult who was going through the experience of childhood again, and instead of trying to force him to behave like a child, they let him be an adult.- Phoenix

The way Hardo presented the story, the thought of past lives never crossed the parents minds until they met Mrs. Ray. I do not see anywhere in the excerpt where they 'let him be an adult' - nor do I get the idea that they thought he was not their child.

In fact, the story reminds me of a BBC special I saw of a boy who remembered being the Dali Lama. His parents after a few years conceeded to let him live with the Monks - on the other side of the world. The way the mother explained it on TV - was eloquent, understandable and not a bad thing at all.

Children who have past life memories are like every other child, they are children, with fleeting moments of recall, that are usually based on past emotions -- the ties that bind. They are not "gifted" in my mind - they are just more self aware, and more connected to a larger sense of who they are.
 
What an amazing story Ailish.

I too found the end part to be a little off-putting. Of course while I was reading it, I was thinking to myself how odd and confusing it must have felt to be "Dawn." Seeing as I and many others have never been graced with this occurence (at least in this life), we can only speculate what feelings may come through.

It had to be an extensive mixture of love, motherly love, love for a child, longing for the individual that no longer was alive. I don't know if I'd be able to truly seperate the emotions and I think it would be extremely hard not to view this CHILD as anything more than a small child with a connection to my ex.

Another thing just popped into my head. We viewed the last part with concern and mixed emotions because we are connecting the inuendo's with that of an unnacceptable relationship between the 14yr old and Dawn. As members of todays society, we are programmed to be this way. Plus we are attaching obvious reactions and feelings to something that obviously is not that to be responded to with normal thought process. Without further explanation from the author; it could very well be that Dawn see's this 14 year old in a light that he is now someone else but used to be her now deceased husband. This may have created within herself an emotion stronger than we could imagine minus any sexual emotions or dependency but a pure since of emotion, protection and love.

The situation must be quite a confusing thing to deal with. Remember the other story posted at one time about the child who remembered owning a convenience store and after research on the parents side, it was discovered that the boys past life family still owned the store and he too got to meet with him? That story never detailed the end result but I would imagine that they too experienced the same confusing emotions as your tale speaks of.
 
Hi Deborah,

I don't think T. Hardo did a very good job explaining the story.

I completely agree. The story itself is quite fascinating -- but the presentation is definitely lacking.

In fact, the story reminds me of a BBC special I saw of a boy who remembered being the Dali Lama. His parents after a few years conceeded to let him live with the Monks - on the other side of the world. The way the mother explained it on TV - was eloquent, understandable and not a bad thing at all.

I remember that! :D That was a great story. ;)

Children who have past life memories are like every other child, they are children, with fleeting moments of recall, that are usually based on past emotions -- the ties that bind. They are not "gifted" in my mind - they are just more self aware, and more connected to a larger sense of who they are.

I agree. Imo, for both children and adults alike -- the ability to remember past lives doesn't make someone "gifted," just more in tune.

I used to babysit a truly gifted child, born to two people of average intelligence. His name is Zachary, and by the age of two he was reading, doing addition and subtraction, naming continents, countries and capitals, and speaking several languages fluently. He never spoke of past lives -- but he had all of this knowledge at two. He was not taught by his parents and did not watch television, other than the typical toddler shows. He stunned his Mom by picking up a menu at a restaurant and reading it -- at that point she had no idea he even knew the alphabet! :eek:

My point is -- Zach had to have learned all of those things somewhere. At times he seemed so grown-up in his thought processes it was unbelievable -- but the bottom line is he was still a child. He cried when he fell down, wanted his Mommy at bedtime, loved to be held and was still amused by childhood games & stories. Even though I believe his intelligence and knowledge are past life related -- deep down he was still a little boy and needed to be treated as one at times.

Aili :)
 
You make some excellent points Aili. Although I was finishing the stories my parents read me as soon as I could talk in sentences, the stories were simple and a child's stories. As soon as I could properly hold a pencil, I began printing stories, which again were childish stories, printed in a child's crude printing. And while I used proper grammar and punctuation from the start, I still made mistakes, and still do now.

I was very much a little boy who somehow "knew" grammar and punctuation, and who was highly creative and inventive. I also began what I found out years later was meditation, when I was five, and did it without being told to, or being prompted by anyone. Neither of my parents nor my brother meditated that I ever knew. So at least in my case, I was a boy who simply did some non-boy things, rather than being an adult locked inside a boy's small body.

John
 
I don't know how I managed to miss this thread! What an amazing story!!

While I'm sure Michael went through typical childhood stuff, I'm sure it's also hard to kind of "wake-up" into an unfamiliar family and surroundings when your past life is so vivid.

I find it quite "ironic" that Mrs. Ray just happened to attend one of Michael's parents' seminars.
 
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