The Shroud and Scientific Inquiry into the Paranormal

[dking777]

I was once again reminded of the 'mystery' of the Shroud of Turin and researched where the scientists are in their observations and scientific inquiry into the authenticity of the relic many believe to be the burial cloth of the man that kick started the Christian religion. For myself, I have come to accept it as fact due to 'mystical insights' from childhood. I described it to my Grandmother in 1969 with rich vivid details. I didn't refer to it as an image. I referred to it as a photographic image. I was very familiar with photography and negative images. My Dad was an avid photographer and I had seen negative images. In 1969, I told my Grandmother I would know it when I saw it because he would have 'pennies' on his eye. This was not known in 1969. Scientists were not given access to study and photograph the image until 1978. Around the time I was talking to my friends about it in 1981 - many were amazed and astonished by the findings. It wasn't until 1988 that carbon dating was done on the shroud that were inconclusive with the idea of the relic being from the 1st century. Someone mentioned this fact to me during this stage and this didn't phase me because I had been promised (in spirit) that I would find the image I was looking for in the future. In one of the documentaries - there is a theory presented why the carbon dating was off and I tend to believe this theory. (The New Evidence.) Jesus and the Shroud of Turin.

But it is interesting how many people where influenced by the headlines that Scientific findings that stated the 'Shroud' was a medieval hoax or forgery.

I watched interviews with the initial team of scientists who stated they started out with that in mind - to find how the hoax of painting was done .... and how they walked away scratching their heads wondering what physical means caused the image to appear in such a way on the cloth. It defies scientific minds to explain. I liked the comment by one scientists who states it is the closest thing science had come to examining a 'paranormal' oddity.

In one of the documentaries above - a botanist in Israel is consulted about the pollen found on the cloth. The pollen with the highest concentration on the cloth is Gundelia tournefortii which is a 'thistle' found in Israel and supposed to be what the 'crown of thorns' was made of. If I didn't have my mystical insights and visions to rely on - this was very convincing for myself.

When it comes to belief about the shroud and it's authenticity - I was wondering what others think and why?

It is a hoax or the real deal?

Sincerely,
DKing

 

[Eowyn]

How interesting you bring up this subject, DKing... and for once I am proud of being Spanish, seeing the link to the Oviedo Cathedral and the scientific studies that were performed on the Santo Sudario you posted in the other thread.


I refused to attend mass just after my First Communion and now I don't consider myself Catholic, but the mystery of the Turin Shroud was always present for me, as being very young I read a book by a Spanish author called "El Enviado" that described the first studies NASA did on the Shroud. Since then I was aware this was a real enigma, one that still is unexplained by scientists, and all the attempts that came later to question its authenticity were just biased and fruitless.

But it is interesting how many people where influenced by the headlines that Scientific findings that stated the 'Shroud' was a medieval hoax or forgery.
I watched interviews with the initial team of scientists who stated they started out with that in mind - to find how the hoax of painting was done .... and how they walked away scratching their heads wondering what physical means caused the image to appear in such a way on the cloth. It defies scientific minds to explain. I liked the comment by one scientists who states it is the closest thing science had come to examining a 'paranormal' oddity.

I always knew about the pollen and the negative images, facts that were always forgotten when things like the supposed medieval hoax were brought to the media. As always there are people who see what they want to see and are happy ignoring what their theory can't explain. Not even residues of paint were found on the shroud, and even if there was someone in the Middle Ages capable of painting that and create a negative image at the same time, could not spill over it dozens of different pollens, each one corresponding to the region where according to the historical records, the shroud had been. Or, at least, it's not likely.


Btw, I hope you wrote the "crown of thorns" between inverted commas because you know as well as me it was not a crown, but a "helmet" (I don't know why they didn't correct, or at least clarify that in the link about the Sudarium of Oviedo).


So, from my words I guess you know my answer to your question is I have no doubts of the authenticity of both the Shroud and the Sudarium. It's just amazing how both pieces match. I just wish the Shroud was somewhere else and not treated as a simple Christian relic, for me the meaning of it surpasses all kind of religions, and I'm sure Jesus would never have wanted it to be exposed and worshipped. I guess that was the only way he found to make us pay attention to his message (apart from preventing the fact that now we'd have pieces of his body scattered around the globe)... or he would have probably been forgotten as the other thousands of Jewish (and non-Jewish) men who died crucified... and it's so sad he couldn't help his message would get so distorted.

 

[Mama2HRB]

Interesting that whatever doesn't fit their theory is "forgotten". To answer your question, DKing, I believe it is real.

 

[dking777]

Since then I was aware this was a real enigma, one that still is unexplained by scientists, and all the attempts that came later to question its authenticity were just biased and fruitless.

I liked one of the quotes from one of the original scientists who was on the first team that studied the Shroud in 1978. He said that he felt that if all the evidence was presented in a court of law - it would be overwhelming enough to led a jury of minds to vote for authentic.


When I first studied the web sites in 1999 and 2000 - I was only interested in proving the points made in my visions. When ever it comes to the paranormal or mystical (such as reincarnation) your going to have skeptics and doubters - so - I didn't pay much attention to the carbon dating controversy. I really dug into the 'carbon dating' thing this time and watched quite a few documentaries.

Btw, I hope you wrote the "crown of thorns" between inverted commas because you know as well as me it was not a crown, but a "helmet" (I don't know why they didn't correct, or at least clarify that in the link about the Sudarium of Oviedo).

In childhood and my early adult life - I didn't refer to the 'objects' in my vision by the common words. I used childish expressions. In my mind, the shroud was a blanket. The Sudarium was a 'towel. The 'stickers' they put on his head - in my childhood expression was a 'hat' with stickers.

So, from my words I guess you know my answer to your question is I have no doubts of the authenticity of both the Shroud and the Sudarium. It's just amazing how both pieces match.

I was aware of the towel when I was a child and mentioned it in conversations - but - I didn't look into it the first time I studied this. I was pleasantly surprised with it this last study. The fact that the blood type matched and the fact that it is AB positive which only 3% of the population have. Also, the fact that the blood stains on both the Shroud and the Sudarium match up. It is beyond coincidence.

I just wish the Shroud was somewhere else and not treated as a simple Christian relic, for me the meaning of it surpasses all kind of religions, and I'm sure Jesus would never have wanted it to be exposed and worshiped.

This is a question I am coming to grips with my own self. I know what finding that image means to me and it was a very important artifact introduced to me in 'visions' during childhood that had a significant importance attached to it. For my own self (if you know my story) I was constantly dying and coming back to life as a child. I wanted my own understanding of this so I could tell others about it - and the question everyone wanted to know was - whose hand was bringing me back into the world again. When I found that 'blanket' I could point at it and say - the same hand that had a hand in that man coming back to life. I do feel the 'divine' is beyond religion to express across cultural lines - so - you can image a 7, 8, and nine year old child trying to express words about the 'divine hand' that was constantly putting me back into my body. My family didn't know much about the Shroud back in the sixties - so - they didn't really make the connection I was trying to imply.


Thank you for sharing you own thoughts about the mystery of the Shroud.


Sincerely,


DKing

 

[dking777]

When I watched one of the documentaries - one of the scientists brought up the subject of 'scripture' mentioning 'clothes' in the plural. He said the word was plural and this had puzzled theologians about why scripture mentions more than one 'cloth' in the tomb. (John 20:6) They theorized that a strip had been torn from the original 'sheet' (which by Jewish custom is supposed to be an exact measurement) and that the 'strip' was actually sewn back into place after the 'shroud' was moved.


I have a different theory now that I have that one puzzle explained of why those people were 'using rags' to soak up his blood along the walk. I used 'towel' 'blanket' and 'rags' when I was a child. If the custom of the Jewish people was to bury the 'blood soaked' linen with the body - then - there should have been 'many clothes' containing the blood that was spilled during that walk.


I don't have confirmation of this in a memory of a vision - or any type of conversation about the vision. I do recall telling my friends in 1981 that it seemed barbaric to my 'modern mind' that those people would be in such a frenzy to get his blood on their 'hankies.' There is one scene (which I did describe to my friends) where he fell to his knee and was stuck for a few moments trying to get up and a lot of blood dripped down and pooled in front of him. People were climbing over one another to get their 'hankies' into that blood that had pooled up in front of him.


Of course, now that I have heard the tradition and custom of the Jewish people - they considered 'blood' a very sacred thing and were trying to help insure that his 'blood' was buried with his body. So, what my young mind considered 'barbaric' and rude actually turns out to be acts of kindness - during a 'hateful' period filled with 'anger' and mockery. This sort of helps put some of my own resentment to rest toward those faces in the 'angry mob' during those visions.


Sincerely,


DKing

 

[dking777]

1981: After three years analyzing the data The Shroud of Turn Research Project (STURP) made their findings public at an international conference in New London, CT. All the scientists agreed upon the following statement: "We can conclude for now that the Shroud image is that of a real human form of a scourged, crucified man. It is not the product of an artist. The blood stains are composed of hemoglobin and give a positive test for serum albumin." Fast Facts

This was announced in October of 1981. I am not sure what month I had my discussion with my friends but I do recall one of them mentioning the National Geographic article. I do recall one of them coming to me later and sharing the 'news' that science had concluding there was 'real blood' on the linen cloth. I mentioned it many times in childhood and once again made the statement to my friends in 1981. I was looking for the coins. The image I was looking for would have the coins I was looking for. It was the only way I would really be sure.


I found two articles that explore the data concerning the coins laid on the eyes. In my visions, there were two coins placed on the eyes.


Pontius Pilate Coin Indicates Age and Origin


Shroud Coins Dating by Imaging Extraction


Sincerely,


DKing

 

[Eowyn]

I found two articles that explore the data concerning the coins laid on the eyes. In my visions, there were two coins placed on the eyes.

If I'm not mistaken, this detail was already in the NASA report, as I read it on the book I mentioned above, which was published in 1979.


Interesting articles, DKing, thanks!


How do you interpret these visions you had then? Do you think they were kind of an answer to your own questions about what was happening to you as a child?

 

[dking777]

If I'm not mistaken, this detail was already in the NASA report, as I read it on the book I mentioned above, which was published in 1979.

Yes, I was curious about this myself. I wanted to know what year the scientist discovered the images. Remarkable fact for myself is - I was talking about the coins in 1967, 1968, and 1969.

How do you interpret these visions you had then? Do you think they were kind of an answer to your own questions about what was happening to you as a child?

As a child, I really didn't know how to interpret them. They only came while there were 'invisible spirits' present - and I would be able to converse with them. I recall it as a 'mass of confusion' but the simple side of it was, yes - it seemed that it was sort of an 'answer' to what I was going through as a child.


For the most part - when the 'spirits' spoke to me about these visions - I would just get 'angry' and upset because it was way over my head and it never really explained anything to my childish mind. (I referred to their dialogue as riddles with no answers.) They always told me they were not talking to the child of me as much as they were speaking to the adult of me. The 'visions' and 'conversations' were like seeds being planted in the 'darkness' of my childhood - to hibernate and bear 'fruit' at a later time.


When I came back from my NDE's and found myself once again in a child's body with a childish mind - it was hard to make sense of anything from the other side and express it to others around me. So, the visions relayed to me that not only was it hard for a child to express the 'divine' - it was also very hard for a 'grown man' to do so when it came to trying to give 'testimony' of the 'hidden side of life.'


Sincerely,


DKing

 

[dking777]

As a child, I really didn't know how to interpret them. They only came while there were 'invisible spirits' present - and I would be able to converse with them. I recall it as a 'mass of confusion' but the simple side of it was, yes - it seemed that it was sort of an 'answer' to what I was going through as a child.

It is harder than I thought - to go back in time now - and stay true to my childhood perception. Sort of, to peel back the onion layers and simplify it to what I thought of them (the visions) as a child.


From the age of 6 to the age of 9 - everyone lost count of the times my 'vital signs' stopped due to my cardiac condition. Of course, while my vital signs were stopped - my spirit (what I called my breath back then) would slip out of my body and return to the light. (What I called home, or my real home or true home.) What I was aware of in that state beyond - and when I returned is what many people who have NDE's give testimony of. The unconditional love of the eternal Creator. I called this one the 'Real Dad' as a child. So, I wanted to express that 'unconditional love' of eternity in this world and didn't know how. It was given to me to know - that this man had tried to express teachings with the emphasis on that same message. The unconditional love of the eternal Creator - or the Father.


To tie this into reincarnation - which was a major theme in my childhood - the visions were centered on the fact that I was 'destined' to cross paths with some of the characters in this vision - 'anew.' Meaning - they would be 'reincarnated' and walking in different bodies and thinking with different minds.


Others may not think of the Shroud of Turin and have 'reincarnation' come to mind - but for me personally - the two are intertwined due to my visions and the fact that in 1976, I crossed paths with the first one - anew. Meaning, he was reincarnated and I knew of him mostly from those 'visions.' When this meeting took place in 1976 - I didn't associate the 'visions' with Jesus in any way - nor did I associate the 'burial cloth' I was looking for with the Shroud of Turin. I felt I had been in preparation my entire young life for this encounter. One of the things that 'shocked' me when I encountered this person was - the perspective of the 'visions' changed. I got to see the scene through the eyes of this person in the past. It wasn't something I was expecting and not something I really felt I wanted to see. (It was one of the guards who had thrown the whip across his back. It was also the one who had knelled at the foot of the pole and asked for forgiveness after his death.) So, I felt he was forgiven for his brutality in the past, but - I was very nervous about standing next to him - reincarnated or not. This person had no memory of his past life what so ever.


I hinted at it left and right - but - he was as blind as a bat to the history of his own inner soul. I didn't think much about it when it happened in 1976 because I didn't associate with that historical moment in the past. It was just some guy who had a lousy job in the past where he 'killed' people for a living. I was sort of disappointed actually. I was sort of hoping that crossing paths with him would validate 'reincarnation.' Since he had no memories of it - it didn't offer me any sort of validation. (I had already received validation for reincarnation with other friends of my own. So, I didn't dwell on it that much and was sort of glad he couldn't remember.) So, I was expecting one thing - and got another.


Now, of course, my perspective has changed. It is strange to look at the image of the Shroud and see it in a material sense and know that I crossed paths with the reincarnation of the very guard who was responsible for half those marks on the back of that image - and the one who threw the first blow.


Sincerely,


DKing

 

[dking777]

It was just some guy who had a lousy job in the past where he 'killed' people for a living.

I was recalling how - when I met him - I wouldn't turn my back on him. I also checked behind his back to make sure he wasn't carrying one of this 'whip's' he had used in that 'vision.'


I do feel the 'spiritual validation' was - when I saw the 'vision' though his past life eyes. I can remember being startled by it and saying to him,


"Why are you showing me this. I don't want to see this - this way. Keep that to yourself."


He had no idea what I was talking about. But, it was like I described to my friends later in 1981. I could see it overlapped into my mind at the same time I was looking at him in the present moment.


I do recall saying to him,


"I guess you have learned to live with yourself for it. I don't want to mess with that any."


I recall wanting to block that imagery from my mind - for good and never have it returned. I didn't want to get confused for the sake of my own self and ever think that was my actual hand that was throwing that whip at "Yeshua's" back like that.


I can recall saying to him,


"Next time you go showing someone like that - you should warn them to brace themselves." He kept saying he didn't know what I was talking about and I told him,


"Your soul does. Your soul knows very well what I am talking about. I got a private conversation going on with your soul and you're just eavesdropping on it. Pay it no nevermind."


Of course, it was validation for the sake of my own mind - but not anything I could bring home to my Mom at that time and prove what I had said all those years past had came to pass.


I did go home and veiled it to my Mom, since I had promised her I wouldn't bring up reincarnation to her anymore. I told him,


"I met the first one just like I told you I would. I ain't as worried about it as much anymore - no thanks to you." (I was at that age.) She asked me to explain what I was talking about and I just told her, "It has to do with that subject I ain't supposed to talk to you about no more. Just thought you might find it interesting to know - I met him. That is all. That means I am going to meet the others in the future just the same."


Sincerely,


DKing

 

[Eowyn]

Fascinating story, DKing, thanks for sharing!

 

[Tinkerman]

DKing I too have always been fascinated by the Shroud of Turin. So much so, I visited Turin back in 1984 and spent time in the shrine/safe room with it. It was inside an ornate altar as I recall. It is hard to describe the sacredness of the room and the ancient church, but suffice it to say I felt like I was in the presence of something very powerful. There was and is no doubt in my mind it is authentic. The books I've read on it are incredibly interesting.


Thanks for your story.


Tman

 

[dking777]

It is hard to describe the sacredness of the room and the ancient church, but suffice it to say I felt like I was in the presence of something very powerful.

Thanks for sharing your experience. It must have been a powerful moment. I would imagine that there has to be a very powerful aura attached to the Shroud that puts off a vibe that can be felt. My three friends whom I spoke with back in 1981, one of them claimed to be an 'atheist.' He was the one who offered to find a magazine article featuring a photograph of the image - and I felt he was in 'awe' of the idea of the Shroud being genuine. All of us were surprised that he knew more facts about it than the rest of us - including the so-called die hard fundamentalist of the group. I haven't spoke with him since the 'carbon-dating' test was done in 1988, so I am curious if that took away from his 'awe'.'


Sincerely,


DKing