Choice, Planning and Guided Sessions

[Feech]

"This seems to go against the idea that our life choices are always made in an enlightened and rational way, to our greatest good... I guess I don't hold that. I've read and heard that souls can take on dark entities that stay with them from life to life, so I figure if that's possible, so are life choices based on negative emotions."

Karen, I tend to agree with this based on my feelings and experiences. I feel that choice can exist without a person/soul knowing just how many choices really are available (as in life) and making assumptions that lead to negative feelings in life (or afterlife). I think negative-emotion choices could be allowed by a "higher" or other self if the outcome will still reach whatever goal is desired.

 

[deborah]

Where is this "Pre Planning" idea coming from? Does it have an ancient reference? Or is this a New Age -idea?

So let me rephrase the question. Where have you read reference to pre-planning. What books -I imagine New Age books;. What authors are promoting this idea? Do they back it up with cases? Personal experience? Science? Ancient Texts?

I find it interesting that so many members believe they preplanned in the poll -and yet they do not remember planning. The other largest vote is consciousness creates. What a big division. An interesting observation. Reminds me of many other debates about beliefs in our world.

 

[tiltjlp]

Another oldie but goodie! So here's what I think. And yes, I know it doesn't jive with everyone else's concept, but that's what makes these sort of discussions interesting.

First, I don't see Karma the same as many folks do. It isn't about tit for tat, or revenge, it's more about life choices. If I choose to behave badly toward someone, that creates negative energy in my life. If someone behaves badly toward me, it only impacts my life if I allow it to do so. How I react is my decision. I also think that as for any actual planning, it's only to help us continue learning the lessons our soul needs for both our spiritual and personal growth.

In other words, to tie planning and Karma together, if a member attacks me for this post, that member will suffer negatively, became of his or her attitude . . . that's Karma in action. How if when I see the attack, I choose to A, ignore it or B, laugh it off, there will be no Karma involved on my part. But if I get upset and send the member a PM blasting them, then there is negative Karma on my part. I simply don't see Karma as being automatic. And the way I choose to react could well be what is planned, based upon what my soul needs to learn.

John

 

[Wulfie]

Maybe not everyone plans their lives but I think some do. It probably depends on that soul's background and experience here on this plane and, perhaps, in others. New souls (by which I mean souls new to this plane of existence, not souls newly created.) might just come flying in without any planning or some, cautious souls, might do a lot of pre planning once they hear how it can get here! hahaha

I have lives where I remember the between stages...before birth, after death, and something in between both of those that I don't know the word for. I also have lives where I was so riled at the time of death that I simply sought another body and never mind the in-between stuff. lol I think those quick returns cause us to bring alot of the previous live's issues with us because we skipped the life overview stage.

In one of the planned lives that I remember some of the things that were chosen had to do with location, family, and events of the time, social standards, and a few other things. Most of these things were chosen because of the triggers they'd provide. For instance, I wouldn't be free to think and do some of the things that I do if I had chosen a place other than America. I'm not likely to get stoned to death here for telling my hubby to kiss my...foot, for example.

I think the choices we make in our planning can go into great detail or lightly skim the surface. It depends on what we're planning to accomplish, if anything. The more we want to accomplish, the more detailed plans we'll make so as to set off those triggers. There are things we don't get to choose as well as things that can simply take a left at the light, since we're not here by ourselves and there's group karma, etc to figure in. And there's also things we came to do AS a group and within family lines or ancestral lines.

So despite the planning there's plenty of room for free will and new choices to develop. Plus, sometimes we just screw things up...or at least I have. lol

This is a neat thread. It could go pretty deeply into things if there's an interest. I know I wrote about four pages of thoughts on it last night after I read it. :tongue:

Wulfie

 

[Wulfie]

Hi Deborah,
I wondered, did you get the answer to this question or what did you come up with as far as is it based from ancient texts or a new age idea? So I'm echoing your question back to you about what books, authors, ect promote the idea, ect? They're really good questions so I wondered what you'd found for answers.

Wulfie

Where is this "Pre Planning" idea coming from? Does it have an ancient reference? Or is this a New Age -idea?

So let me rephrase the question. Where have you read reference to pre-planning. What books -I imagine New Age books;. What authors are promoting this idea? Do they back it up with cases? Personal experience? Science? Ancient Texts?

I find it interesting that so many members believe they preplanned in the poll -and yet they do not remember planning. The other largest vote is consciousness creates. What a big division. An interesting observation. Reminds me of many other debates about beliefs in our world.

 

[deborah]

Hi Wulfie,

The Bhagavad-gita and the Tibetan Book of the Dead, as in the many forms of ancient Buddhism, (like in so many ancient religions) point to clear intention to help ensure the future of the soul, enabling them to live in peace, in harmony, in good health and happiness in each life time. I am working on a book that addresses this issue - so without giving too much of it away; it seems to me that what the ancients were implying, is that consciousness creates.

A lot of New Age authors -- in my opinion -- are presenting the best of the cases they have to offer the reader. Culminating a premise for their theory. This doesn't make them wrong - just IMO - presenting a narrowed possibility.

History is filled with endless accounts of war, rape, murder, and harm imposed upon others. The most horrible things we do, we do to each other. It seems to me that we keep creating suffering and imperfection because we are not conscious of how to create change.

If our thoughts, what we hold in consciousness, determines our next ‘life experience’ then maybe this is why there are no set rules. Maybe this is why some souls are born into the same families, and some are not. Maybe this is why some souls do not reincarnate for decades, or even centuries, while others are born into another life almost immediately. Each individual is unique, each individual sets his own way, by way of his/her thoughts, feelings and emotions. In other words, his or her consciousness creates.

In the Tibetan seminal text called the Dhammapada, which means ‘The Way of Truth,’ the power of our thoughts is clearly stated:

“All that we are is a result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts.”

I think Carol presented it beautifully in her book Return From Heaven, while making reference to the Tibetan Buddhists:

“The Tibetan Buddhists agree that the more aware and conscious a soul is, the better its choices will be for the coming life. They say a spiritually evolved soul can direct its incarnation and choose the place and family of its birth. Otherwise, they say, Karma will dictate the choice, and the soul will be drawn, as a magnet, into whatever womb resonates with all its past experiences.”

To me, we are each unique, and aware or not - we create our realities.

 

[Wulfie]

Deborah,
Wow, what an awesome answer! Thank you so much for taking the time to share this with me. I haven't read any of these works you've mentioned but reading just the small parts you shared lit me up like a christmas tree. I bet the whole building heard me shouting AHA!!!!

I'll be very interested in reading your book.

Thanks for saying what you did about Carol Bowman's book too. Honestly, I hadn't intended to read it because I thought the entire focus was on children and many books include that in their research. My interests are more toward what you've shared here than anything else. But after reading a few quotes that you and MoonDansyr (I think) shared I've put both her books on my list to read.

Again, thanks for answering me.
Wulfie

 

[DavidW]

Level Four would suit me fine. I don't like the idea of Level Two, though. I've always been the kind of person who would fight back if anyone tried to force me to do anything. I'm afraid that I would cause quite a bit of trouble for them in the spirit world and they would probably put me on Level Four just to get rid of me. After all, I don't recall ever asking to be part of this continuous cycle of birth, death and rebirth, ect, so I would regard myself as a non-affiliate member or someone who's been drafted rather than having volunteered and conscripts usually make poorer soldiers than volunteers.

 

[Anaesthesia]

interesting. I think I made choices/preplanned for most of my lives to an extent.


I was thinking today about future lives and what I want to do.

 

[Valerie J]

My pre-life memories are from infancy and pre-school. My parents were Christian and never discussed reincarnation. I had read no books on the subject.


I'm not really bothered with the idea that certain holy scriptures don't include the concept of waiting, expectant souls, the guides, and the ability to choose our circumstances. I remember what I remember, and other children around me described almost exactly the same scenario when I asked them if they remembered "before you were born". I continued to ask my peers (if the moment was right) up until my teens, and the results were the same (even without my prompting or describing my own memories). I probably *would* have put it down to my own prompting if it wasn't for people like Carol, Brian Weiss and others who have written about people with similar memories (people I've never met).


Can *all* of us choose our parents? I don't know. Are the forewarnings (or plannings) for our current lives probabilities or sureties? I don't know. I was told what my family members would be like and things they would do. Was this intended as 100%, 90%, 50% accurate? I don't remember everything that was relayed or the exact context. I assume it's probabilities, but considering that we're born with previous personalities and prejudices (not blank slates) I assume the probabilities are fairly high.


I don't remember being told what I would do or be like. I was dreading reincarnating too much to make any plans for myself. Others on this board have described their children expressing plans for their roles in life and plans they seem to have with other family members. So, some may plan, but are the plans set in stone? It doesn't seem like it: "What took you so long to get here?" "If you get sick we can't do..." Maybe they already know from experience that plans can be derailed by circumstance?

 

[kingkoopa]

The whole idea of pre-planning life is very interesting to me, and I absolutely believe in it. I don't have any specific memories planning this life, but a lot of times I feel like I definitely planned an event out in this life. For example I have moved a ton in my life, as a senior in high school this is my 4th different high school. It seems as though all the moving was out of my control, but completely meant to happen and in my control at the same time. Sounds weird, I'm sorry I can't really describe it. I learned different lessons at each school I've been at. At one school I learned how bad some people have life, and at another I learned how shallow people can be. Its almost like I have been going down a set path all my life.


I think when we have deja vu its us remembering planning out an event. Usually when I have deja vu I learn something very important that day or something big happens to me.


I think that we choose a life based off of our current karma, and our experience in life. I believe everyone has a main focus or a main goal if you will. For example someone may plan a life where depression is their main focus. In addition to a main goal I think we have a ton of secondary goals. Someones primary focus in life might be fighting depression, but they also have some side issues with their parents and their friends.


I'm not a huge believer in karma, instead I think we have to live lives as a killer and as a victim to get both ends of the spectrum. I think it increases our wisdom that much more. I think the longer we have been around the more spiritual our lessons get. I honestly think that all of the people who are interested in reincarnation and god have been around longer than those who could careless about the afterlife. I believe in the concept of an old soul and a new soul. Some of you mentioned it earlier sometimes we feel like we don't belong here or we long for another lifetime. I think thats untrue for most people.

 

[deborah]

HI,

I'm not a huge believer in karma, instead I think we have to live lives as a killer and as a victim to get both ends of the spectrum.

I think Aili made a great point in the following thread. Karma is not punishment. I tend to agree with her.

All of humankind is subject to the law of karma. Karma simply means “action.” Every action has a reaction. But, in my opinion, karma is not a “punishment”, only a requirement that you experience all that you create. Ailish

To me consciousness is the creator - we create our realities. This does not mean I have to experience all other choices made by other souls on the other end of the spectrum. I could be aware of it in other ways. IMO.


What makes you think we have to experience everything? I am curious why people come to believe certain things.

 

[kingkoopa]

Hi Deborah,


Well, I don't know about other people, but the reason why I think you have to experience everything is empathy. I think that in order to have a complete understanding you must know what its like in everyones shoes. I can't understand someones pain when I haven't lived their life. I can try, but still its not 100% genuine since you haven't lived that particular life. How can I empathize with an abused person if I have never been abused myself? Again I can try but its not completely genuine.

 

[Alexnovo]

Deborah: First let me thank you for bringing this older thread to my attention. As a newcomer to this forum, I know there are so many valuable threads from the past that I have missed. This one is truly fascinating.


Secondly, to add my one cent’s worth (I say one cent as I am unsure what I have to say is even worth two cents), I will say that had the poll included an option “Uncertain” I would have voted for that, as in truth while I have some thoughts on the subject I really am not certain as to whether those thoughts are valid or merely wishful thinking. As to what I have read, I would say that mostly I have read the works of Brian Weiss who suggests that that there is a degree of evaluation and pre-planning.


I personally, at least as of yet, have no memories of planning this or any other life. Indeed I have no memories of the time between lives. Despite my lack of such memories, I do believe that at least some form of pre-planning has taken place. I say this because I, and from what have read many others, do know that in this life I am together with a few people that I have known in prior lives. I guess we can call them soul mates, or a soul group or some other name, but I have met people that I instantly recognized and knew at deeper level. To me this is suggestive that it was decided to come back together. I know that it could be that we just happened to run into each other, but on a planet of 6 billion people, it seems more likely that some plan was in place to put us near each other.


I guess I also say that I believe in some form of pre-planning because it just makes sense. If we are to learn and grow as a result of our experiences, it seems logical that a period of evaluation and planning be a part of that growing process.


Thus at least at this minimal level I accept pre-planning. In an earlier post Niamh likened the process to choosing which university courses to take and I like that analogy. In our current lives we all make conscious decisions, some more rational than others, about how to achieve a particular goal. If a child growing up on a small farm says to himself “I want to travel the world, know other cultures and live abroad, he may better his odds at such a future by going to university and studying International Relations so as to prepare himself for a career in the Foreign Service. That is a plan. By following the plan, there is no guarantee that the goal will be achieved but the odds of achieving the goal are bettered. It is this type of planning that I think can, and hope does, take place between lives. This type of planning doesn’t negate free will and indeed it is evidence of free will.


If on the other hand by pre-planning, you mean predestination where every success or failure down to whether I stub my toe next week is planned, then I take a different view. Under such circumstances, the idea of free will (both mine and others) seems to fly away and the whole process seems to serve no apparent purpose.


All of that having been said, as I typed this, an interesting “mechanical” question arose. If we all do pre-plan (at least to the extent of I want to be born to such and such family in such and such country etc) what happens if more than one soul makes the same plan. In other words, if multiple souls are at a given moment planning their next incarnation, is it not likely that more that one soul might from time to time reach a conclusion that “I want body X.” To go back to the choosing university classes analogy, some classes are offered often and have numerous open seats, while others are rarely given and have limited seats. A soul wanting to be born on a farm could be told we have numerous openings, while those wanting to be King of England would be told, we rarely offer that class. How is it decided who gets the rarely offered class? A waiting list, an application process? Sorry this was a silly aside, but sometimes my mind drifts to these types of nuts and bolts “how does it work” type of topics.


Anyway once again thanks for bring this older thread up on the list. I look forward to see what other have to say.

 

[deborah]

An older thread with some interesting information. Any thoughts? What do you think?

 

[wednesday]

I didn't vote because there really wasn't an option that fits my beliefs. I don't think you can really plan out everything, but I think the basics and the direction you'd like to go in probably can.....kind of similar to planning a trip. There are just things that can come up to throw a wrench into your plans.


That said...I do have this memory stuck in my head of me saying to someone that I was going to be a girl this time and that person laughing at me. I remember joking around about it. I have some memories of 'between world' stuff and this was one of them. I'm not sure what the reasons for being a girl were anymore, I have my ideas, but the reason I had then I can't remember. I also have a memory of someone telling me to 'remember the horse'.....it was a particular horse I had in the life I remember. I always wondered why and never could remember what the horse looked like that they were talking about until last year when I actually did remember it. I did a bunch of drawing of it then. I'm not sure of the significance of remembering that but that makes me believe that remembering that life in this one was planned.

 

[Kristopher]

An older thread with some interesting information. Any thoughts? What do you think?

Really interesting thread, Deborah, thanks for bringing this back up, I have never noticed it before.


I voted that I have no memories of planning this life but I believe I have.

I am curious why people come to believe certain things.

I have no personal evidence to support why I believe this, but I tend to agree with Newton's findings on this topic. Also, even though the work of both Carol Bowman and Ian Stevenson(Tom Shroder's book) were mainly about children's past life memories, they did also write of children basically telling their parent(s) that they were glad they had picked them, which points in the direction life planning.


IMO, it's pretty logical that we will have the ability to plan our own lives rather than being tossed into a random life, not knowing that we're in for. It's much like planning a holiday. You're going to want to choose where you're going to and find out as much as you can about what it will be like before you book it.


I also don't think that all of the planning for a new life begins when we're in the spirit world. I think we are planning our next life as we live our current. I'm sure many who read this already have a type our life they have thought about living in another/future life. Maybe they have a country that they feel attracted to.


I could be wrong. It's possible our lives are totally random, or even picked for us. I don't like to think this is true though. In terms of what I believe happens, I feel confident that life planning is reality due to the studies carried out, as I've stated above, that have been in favour of it.