• Thank you to Carol and Steve Bowman, the forum owners, for our new upgrade!

Meher Baba's Comment on Remembering Past Lives

jbader

Senior Registered
Hello all,

I haven't been to the forum for awhile, but recently came across something I though readers might be interested in. I've followed Meher Baba for many years and earlier this afternoon happened across a statement He made some years back (1940s?) as to the underlying spiritual reasons that people don't usually recall their past lives. I thought readers of the forum might be interested. Of course some people do have glimpses of other lives, especially children, but most don't have clear memories. I thought it was interesting He also described the spiritual conditions necessary for souls to recall all their past lives.

Anyway, here's the quote from DISCOURCES, originally published in the 1940s (I think), but still in print...

"Life would be infinitely more complicated if one who is not spiritually advanced were burdened by the conscious memory of numberless past lives. He would be dazed and unsettled by the diversity of setting in which persons would appear to him in the light of his memory.

He is not called upon to face such confusion, however, because he is shielded from the resurrection of the memory of past lives. Things and persons come to him in a limited and definite context and setting, with the result that he finds it easy to determine his actions and responses in the light of what he knows from the present life.

This does not mean that his actions and responses are entirely determined by what he knows from his present life. All that has happened in past lives also has its own unconscious but effective share in determining his actions and responses.

In spite of the actual influence of past lives, the fact remains that since he is shielded from the resurrection of conscious memory, his consciousness is not subject to the confusion that would result if the conscious memory of past lives were among the data he had to consider for the purpose of determining his actions and responses.

The resurrection of the memory of past lives can be faced without confusion or loss of balance only when the person has become desireless and has lost all feeling of "mine" and "thine." Those whom he once looked upon as belonging to him might be seen in the present life belonging to someone else. And if he were to continue his attachments and supposed claims, he would create untold complications, misery, and confusion for himself and others.

Possessiveness of all types has to be purged from the mind if the aspirant is to be spiritually prepared to withstand the disturbing influence of memories from past lives.

Meher Baba. from The Discources.
 
Very wise words. Thanks for posting them. I think it's so true that we can't get bogged down in the past memories. This lifetime is the important one. Today is the most important time. Memories come back at certain points to act like signposts, but you can't live in the past.

I'd like to read more about Mehere Baba so I'll do an internet search. Thanks once again.
 
Thanks for sharing that jbader - I got a lot out of it and found it very thought provoking. I haven't been around for a while either, but I'm glad I decided to try to catch up today!
 
Interesting

Nice post - but I do have a problem with this part of the quote-

Possessiveness of all types has to be purged from the mind if the aspirant is to be spiritually prepared to withstand the disturbing influence of memories from past lives.

Why does he see past life memories as being a disturbing influence? I can -of course only relate this to my own experiences, and that of my children - family and close friends. I also relate this to the memories of small children -who - although sometimes speak of trauma in a past life -all too often just remember and casually speak of their other mommy - their other home. Even if trauma is remembered -and processed -healing does happen and has been documented in many cases.


My memories have only enriched -and informed - more fully -who I am. The process of remembering has helped me to know myself. The assimilation of this knowing is a process -a deep process of learning to know oneself -and to remember -who we are. Perhaps I do not understand the context of his premise.
 
Deborah,
you are right but is it not the negative influences arising in past lives that provide the most trenchant lessons?
 
Originally posted by Deborah

My memories have only enriched -and informed - more fully -who I am. The process of remembering has helped me to know myself. The assimilation of this knowing is a process -a deep process of learning to know oneself -and to remember -who we are. Perhaps I do not understand the context of his premise.

I agree. I have found that the memories I have also have helped me understand who I am. Just my opinion, but I don't think this guy has experienced anything that could possibly be past life memories firsthand. This thing of understanding more fully who we are through many incarnations reminds me of something I took in social studies class one year.

Here's a site for people who are interested in looking at the Maslow hierarchy of needs.
https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc2900/m1/23/
I remember while taking it in social class the one the teacher put on the board had love as a need to reach self actualization, in the sense of needing to be in a relationship to reach self actualization. I think it was the emotional need. There's also spiritual, physical and mental, I think. I think I'm getting those last three mixed up with the holistic self. Anyway, I disagree with the hierarchy of needs because I think that people can reach self actualization through understanding life through reincarnation and past life memories, other than through only the physical aspect of life. Anyone else have any thoughts on the hierarchy of needs or the holistic self?
 
Deborah and everyone else,

Possessiveness of all types has to be purged from the mind if the aspirant is to be spiritually prepared to withstand the disturbing influence of memories from past lives.

I think this can refere to that we have to learn to live in the present. In the moment.

I agree with you that past life memories, the the healing you can get from them and the spiritual understanding is a benefit. Occacionally some people seem to find their true indentity in their past life and identfie too much with their past life persona. That is of corse not good.

To me past life memories has been a help to understand that there is a greater self outside time, larger than Veronica. It has helped to widen the sense of what is "me". If you get to stuck on one or some of you past lives and hate your present life, I think that past life memories can have the opposite effect.

Asd i understand it this is written to explain why not everyone has past life memories. Almost everyone here has. I don't think it matters if the memories come spontainlously, through hypnosis or in dreams. We get them when we are ready to deal with them.

Being spiritually prepared is always good, isn't it? ;)

Veronica
 
Does he?

Why does he see past life memories as being a disturbing influence?
He doesn't. No one can tell what influence past life memories could have till they become known. Disturbing influence is just one possibility.
 
confused.............

Kris -- But-- But -- but -he has stated so - many times in the quote. What makes you think -"he doesn't?"

Veronica...what to you is being "spiritually prepared?" When I think of small children remembering past lives - it doesn't seem to me - they have been " spiritually prepared" for the experience.

Just a thought ;)
 
For Robin.........

you are right but is it not the negative influences arising in past lives that provide the most trenchant lessons?

Oh yes.......I mean to experience the whole of my actions - the totality of self -- the good the bad and the ugly. ;)
 
Spiritual preparedness and karma

I think he is specifically referring to 'one who is not spiritually advanced' and what could happen when such a person is 'burdened by the conscious memory of numberless past lives.'

It gets more complicated for small children. When my daughter remembered her past life, she was extremely disturbed and was crying uncontrollably. If I had not realized the cause of her predicament, I just know what effect that could have had on her psyche. Of course, I don't expect a normal two year old to be spiritually savvy to deal with past life issues but someone around has to be able to come to terms with the situation.

However, some are born extraordinarily prepared spiritually to handle anything as can be seen here. My guru makes it clear, and it has been told countless times in Indian lore, that such preparedness comes from many lifetimes of good karma.

I have to assume that Meher Baba's comments were made in a context that is not clear in the above quote. Here, he seems to be dealing with one side of the issue only.
 
Deborah,
Being spiritually prepared has nothing to do with age. Why should a child be less prepared than anyone?? I don't know what Meher Baba meant by being spiritually prepared I only assumed that he meant that you hade to be ready to handle it and that the preparation could happen in other lives in the time between lives. What I meant was that you experience what you need and are ready to deal with. We shouldn't underestimate children and I know that you don't do that.

This text is written to explain why everyone doesn't remeber past lives. Not to explain that it is dangerous for those who do remember. I agree with Kris that he doesn't. ;) Those who doesn't remeber don't remeber because they are not spiritually prepared and hence it could be disturbing for them.

:confused: Veronica

Now I have read Kris answer where he says the same thing only much clearer. I realise that I'm not as clear as I wanted to.
 
Thanks

HI Veronika and Kris,

OK I see what you're getting at. Thanks for explaining your position. :)
 
appropriate approach?

On looking at the original
Life would be infinitely more complicated if one who is not spiritually advanced were burdened by the conscious memory of numberless past lives. He would be dazed and unsettled by the diversity of setting in which persons would appear to him in the light of his memory.

He is not called upon to face such confusion, however, because he is shielded from the resurrection of the memory of past lives.
I must say that I think this statement leaves a lot to be desired as an explanation. It really sounds more like a cobbled-together attempt at justification to account for some imagined state of spiritual naivety.

I have a different take on this and I think that in the young the recall of snippets of past-lives is quite common. The difference is that some people readily suppress such memories (with the help of external social input) but others investigate further. When we say that “one cannot recognise and understand past lives until ready” we really struggle to describe a phenomenon we can only appreciate in ourselves. But what does it mean? Does it mean that every personality-trace (soul) swings equally far from its origin before the accumulation of “good self fulfilling” actions draw it back towards the origin? Does it mean that every soul from the instant of instigation passes through the same “generic” process before it can again remember itself?
:)
 
Hi Robin,
I'm not sure that I understod this part of your answer. Please, Could you explain it more?

But what does it mean? Does it mean that every personality-trace (soul) swings equally far from its origin before the accumulation of “good self fulfilling” actions draw it back towards the origin? Does it mean that every soul from the instant of instigation passes through the same “generic” process before it can again remember itself?

Veronica
 
Veronica
But what does it mean? Does it mean that every personality-trace (soul) swings equally far from its origin before the accumulation of “good self fulfilling” actions draw it back towards the origin? Does it mean that every soul from the instant of instigation passes through the same “generic” process before it can again remember itself?

Presumably every soul has an origin and that origin is God or The One Eternal Consciousness (Self). That origin is pure by any definition (I would suppose) and therefore the soul (a derivative of God) must also be pure at its conceptual origin –the first movement in consciousness-. Although this maybe not so at the actual origin which itself may be contaminated by the very process involved.

Anyway, if the essential nature of the soul is representation of a limitless spiritual context in a limited physical form then reincarnation follows as the result of some sort of failure to achieve perfection in life. That is, a cyclic progression is set up alternating between life and not-life and driven by failure to achieve “perfection”.

In that case, 1) must every soul go through the same general process of spiritual decline through myriad lives (& deaths) before it accumulates enough positive attributes (or karma) to enable it to remember its source, its origin so to speak and 2) is the extent of departure from the pure state the same (in a general sense) for each soul? All saints then equally being subject to past lives in which they have been sinners to the same extent (more or less)?
:)
 
Robin,
I'm beginning to feel really stupid. ;)

If have understood what you mean then I agree with you that the soul is always eternal and "perfect" (bad choice of word). The difference is how easy some people get in touch with their soul or the one.

And I imagine that this being "spiritually prepared" is how well that contact work not how developed the soul is in it self. Having a bad connection is an interesting experience to the soul too and does not mean that those are lesser than someone with a good connection.

Beside this I agree with you that many more are more open as young and close themselves when they realise that they see things that others, the grown-ups, doesn't see.

I hope that I didn't missunderstand you this time.

Veronica
 
Veronica,
yes, what I am saying is the purity is at origin and the task is to re-connect to that origin. The individual ego-self cycles between its apparently flesh-bound form and an intrim state which it obtains after death. This is the reincarnating self and as long as it cycles fro incarnation to incarnation it is, shall we say, less than perfect.:)
 
reply

Hi folks,

I posted the original quote and checked the thread regularly for a while. After a while I didn't see any more comments so I stopped checking. Now there are 17 posts!!! I shouldn't have stayed away for so long....

Deborah, I'm sorry to be so slow responding to your comment questioning whether remembering past lives would be a disturbing influence. You said you had found your remembrances to be positive and healing. I've read a number of your other posts about your own experiences which I've found quite facinating and certainly appear to be positive experiences.

But this seems to me to be different from the remembrance Meher Baba is talking about. Most often people remember only snippets or pieces of former lives, often only powerful moments in one or a few lives, sometimes entire lives, rarely more, and certainly not the entire history of the soul's journey. Meher Baba has said the human soul can experience over 6 MILLION lives before attaining God-realization. When he spoke of the disturbing influence he was referring to the "conscious memory of NUMBERLESS lives" as Kris mentioned.

Quoting: "Life would be infinitely more complicated if one who is not spiritually advanced were burdened by the conscious memory of NUMBERLESS past lives. He would be dazed and unsettled by the diversity of setting in which persons would appear to him in the light of his memory." Unquote.

Meher Baba has said that advanced saints and perfect masters actually experience the panoramic view of the soul's journey and can consciously recall ALL their former lives and myriad relationships they have had with others. But such saints and therefore such experiences, are VERY rare. Selfishness and possessiveness - which I have in abundance - does not burden them, and in this exalted state can see all of their lives without losing their balance. This state of remembrance is far beyond anything that we have experienced. Meher Baba is simply saying we would not be benefited from such a powerful experience before we are spiritually ready.

That's my take on it. Heh, thanks everyone for your comments so far - its been very interesting to read everyone's thoughts.

Jonathan
 
*S*S*S

Thank You Jonathan for the extended explanation. I appreciate your efforts and the clarity in which you have presented them. :)
 
the path

Meher Baba is simply saying we would not be benefited from such a powerful experience before we are spiritually ready.

Yes this may be so but a big part of being spiritually ready involves the direct participation of the person concerned. In other words anybody motivated to try to remember elements of their past lives will, by persistence, be able to do so. Thus spiritual readiness depends only on one's will.

The explanation as to why some remember pastlives spontaneously and some do not needs only to be tied to the understanding that in everyday life some people remember more of a day's doings than do others. The reason for this involves attention to detail. Alternatly, some people forget things more readily than others do.....

What I am saying here is that "spiritual readiness" depends entirely on one's own will. Spritual readiness need not be some vague state that just "falls from the sky" as it were. Spiritual readiness can be activly prepared by anybody at will if so inclined.

On the other hand spiritual readiness may also develop naturally without apparent intent of the individual concerned but really, it need not be that way at all.

There is a clear and definate path to self-awareness and any person may choose to take that route at any time. There is no mystery about it whatsoever. (IMHO)
 
reply

Hello Goldenage,

It may well be true that one can remember limited or fragmentary past lives by making an effort to remember. It certainly seems possible, though I don't personally know because I don't remember any of my previous lives. Some persons and places are deeply familiar to me, but this isn't the same as say Deborah's experiences which appear to be actual recollections.

But Meher Baba says this rare state of remembering (or knowing) with full clarity ALL of one's INNUMERABLE previous lives is simply a by-product of advanced states of consciousness known by true saints.

But the saint doesn't gain that state by trying to remember their previous lives - rather their sole focus and interest is a continual longing for and remembrance of God which results in self-forgetfulness and the annihilation of low desires, by inner (and sometimes outer) renunication of worldly things. Meher Baba says the saints seek only God - not past lives - and the rare ones who actually attain to these advanced states of conscious - ironically - gain FULL remembrance of numberless past lives (as well as many other spiritual powers, knowledge, and experience) as a by-product of these exalted states.

Jonathan.
 
What I understood from this quote was, that memories are only beneficial if we are spiritually advanced enough to not be 'attached' anymore in a 'possessive' way to relations/persons of the past.
When we remember a past life, and the persons in it, we might have to deal with the fact that my PL lover is now someone elses lover, that my child is now someone elses child etc...
If we are not ready to detach from the PL relation, the memories might be disturbing, if we still feel possessive towards a person that we recognize as being ours in a past life.
That is what I made of this exerpt.

Eevee
 
Jonathan
Well, from my perspective, I spent the majority of my life in the role of a scientist. A fan of the notion that an objective world existed apart from me (us). It was only when I reacted with disbelief when a friend expressed a belief in reincarnation a few years back that I had occasion for a second thought. At my reaction my friend asked me if it might not be more unbelievable to have lived only once than many times. Now it might have been ”grace” but, instead of rejecting the notion out of hand, I asked myself (since I recalled no past lives and thought the idea of past lives to be “a granola crunching hippy notion" anyway) well, if I have lived previous lives then there must be some trace of this in my consciousness, a memory, a behavioral quirk, something….

Accordingly, I thought I would look for evidence (or lack thereof) in the form of unexplained behavioral tendencies, that is, behavior that could not be charged to experiences in this life. If I found none I proposed to myself that I would reject the notion of past lives as applied to me anyway. But surprise surprise, after extensive meditation (tracing my life backward) I did find unexplained tendencies. So according to my rationale I concluded that there must be something to the past-life business. Armed with this conclusion I toddled off to a past-life-regression person posing the question “why have I always tended to do so & so in such & such a situation”???? Bingo – I landed in a “swords & sandals” scenario whacking off whole cities at a single blow just to strike terror and ”pacify” the conquered …..Shock, horror etc. etc.

Now, I really does not matter if you do not remember “all” your past lives, one will be sufficient to get one started. There are (IMHO) relatively few only that are of fundamental importance in anchoring us in Samsara. These are the lives that must be “cleared” – one has to come to terms with these in order to “get off of the wheel”. The rest of the lives have no hold on us so why bother to recall them? The issue is that one does recall “all of the lives” when one has recalled one only. The reason is that once you can surface one life it is just a matter of time and concentration in order to dig out the rest. So one life really means “all lives”.

That said, the name of the game-of-life IS self-realization – to remember your true Self, who you really are and in so doing comprehend the notion “that life is but a dream”….. You wake up to understand that the dreamer is the Self one only, beyond time and space and the world is just an appearance.

Now you might wish to know that Meher Baba is not alone in the “why bother to remember past lives” line. Many people regard Sri Maharshi Ramana as one of the most noteworthy Jiani’s of modern times and he likewise said “why bother to remember past-lives? Find out first who you are”. By that he meant that one should concentrate on the question “Who or what am I?”. The path involving “identification with god” (devotion) leads to the same thing (so it is said by some). However, Vasishtha’s Yoga points out two things (among many): 1) the recollection of past lives is a key to self-realization; 2) the high-road is self-enquiry.

Putting these two together, for someone who has remembered at least one past life the formula I recommend is: “who or what am I that so span time and space?”

Will it enable self recollection? By Ramana’s basic recommendation it certainly can. We also have Vashitha’s support in this and I add my modestly positive assertion (for whatever it is worth) as well.


:) :)
 
Eevee,
Even if one recalls no past lives I would say that immediate interaction with people in the category you describe would still ignite any unfinished business. On the other hand, if one knows the relationships involved (through past life recall) then at least there is some ground for dealing with the situation.
:)
 
Back
Top