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The case for the secular soul

libshoppe

Omniscient yet Humble
The following is from my website Theory of Reciprocity - a metaphysical thesis . The existence of the 'life entity' is entirely self evident. To deny its existence is contrary to logic. And while it does not prove reincarnation, it makes it more likely than not - AND it brings BOTH the theory of evolution and a secular version of intelligent design together to explain the phenomenon of life.

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"Cogito ergo sum." I think, therefore I am. One must exist in order to experience, and the fact that you experience is convincing proof you exist.

You probably consider yourself to be a single being, which is why you call yourself 'I' instead of 'we'. Your body; however, is a plurality - a composite of billions of individual elements or fundamental particles, each with its own set of properties. Each basic particle pre-existed your birth and will ultimately survive your demise. Each has its own unique history, a separate location and physical domain. Indeed, if the axiom of identity is valid, then one existence will always have a single set of experiences and a collection of existences will always have individual sets of experience equal to the number of elements in the set. Logically this presents a conundrum. How can you be a single existence if that physical manifestation which you consider to be 'yourself' is composed of multiple existences?

In order to reconcile this disparity, scholarly pundits with alphabet soup after their names profess that if you toss just the right combination of terrestrial ingredients into a primordial cauldron and stir it really, really hard for a very long time, you can produce a composite that thinks, propagates and experiences a unique existence as a single identity. That may sound silly (I call it the Pinocchio hypothesis) but which lowly layman in his right mind would dare contradict an entire horde of scholarly pundits, especially when they are immersed in alphabet soup. So, with an eye of newt and wing of bat, a pinch of this and a dash of that the pundits dub this egregious departure from logic the 'phenomenon of emergent properties' and they credit it with the creation of all life on Earth. Regrettably, they seem unable to fully explain the mechanics of this miraculous process that transforms 8x10~27 atoms into a single existence with an individual identity.

Hogwarts! If this is science, then Harry Potter is the next Isaac Newton.

If you believe you are the corporal product of emergent properties then you are claiming you are an occurrence, not an existence. I have a major problem with that reasoning.

So what does this mean?

To quote Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's famous character Sherlock Holmes in Chapter 6 of 'The Sign of Four',"…when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

By rote and repetition you have been trained since birth to think you are that thing you see in the mirror - hair, eyes, nose, skin, and appendages. You have developed the self-image that your body is YOU. But if you cut off your arm, your arm will suddenly be over there, yet you will still experience your same identity. You will probably still have feeling in a 'phantom arm' that isn't there. Just because your arm was held onto your corpse by molecular bond didn't make it YOU. The identity you experience is that of a single entity - an element hidden within the composition of your shell. A body is something you wear, not something you are. It does; however, seem to be a necessary tool in order for us to function and think in human terms.

This isn't rocket science. It has nothing to do with religion. It is simple reasoning and elementary deduction. Life is no chemical accident. It is simply the result of a spectrum of elemental particles with the attribute of natural animation that long ago began to manipulate the resources of this planet - 'wear the mud' so to speak. Our physical size is extremely tiny prior to our trek into life (a feature for which anyone who is, was, or ever will become pregnant can be eternally grateful), so it comes as no surprise that we haven't been able to isolate and identify that element within us that compiles and compels our corporal garb.

As strange as it may seem, you - yourself - have no idea what you actually look like. It seems consciousness, as we know it, only occurs when you are wrapped within your corporal shell. It is amazing that an elemental seedling too small to be detectable to the instruments of modern technology could intuitively engineer a complex machine the size of a human body. And even if you could strip away the blood and the bones just long enough to glimpse your true countenance, you might see nothing at all, for that fundamental element which is you may be ethereal - it may not have the property of mass. Like space, you may be transparent - as invisible as the air you breathe.
 
Hi ThOr,


Can you sum up what you would like to discuss? Members researching the scientific aspect of reincarnation may be interested but not know where exactly to start.
 
Elementary, my dear Deborah - as Sherlock Holmes might say.


My point is that the existence of a singular element which is the essence of any live being may be easily and incontrovertibly deduced without the aid of technology or scientific experiment.


In seeking the answers to questions about the nature of life "modern" scholars seem to fall into two camps. Evolution and intelligent design. Evolutionists seem to believe that living beings are nothing more than composites of those few fundamental particles and force carriers they think comprise the material world. Those who espouse intelligent design believe some mystical omnipotent 'Creator' imbued life upon our planet. They are both partly right and partly wrong.


Our technology is not sufficiently evolved to be able to mechanically discern the life element that compiles and compels our animated being - but only a little elementary deduction is all that is needed to illustrate its existence.


There will come a day when the 'spark of life' is discovered by some future technology we cannot today envision. If it has the property of mass, it should be fairly easy to find and if not, then in order to command a structure the size of the human body, it must produce some kind of electromagnetic force which may eventually be traced.


Someday mankind will look back upon our 'modern' era and wonder how creatures who couldn't even understand the nature of their own being could have considered themselves 'intelligent'.
 
So, with an eye of newt and wing of bat, a pinch of this and a dash of that the pundits dub this egregious departure from logic the 'phenomenon of emergent properties' and they credit it with the creation of all life on Earth. Regrettably, they seem unable to fully explain the mechanics of this miraculous process that transforms 8x10~27 atoms into a single existence with an individual identity.
Tee hee ThOR,


Hogwarts! Indeed. :)


Yes, I agree with you. There does not (necessarily) have to be any religious aspect to the 'soul' but it is (blindingly) obvious that there is something going on and I agree that 'something' would bear much closer and more serious examination than it usually gets from the 'alphabet soup' people.


In fact, I think reincarnation would explain many of the conundrums in the theory of evolution - why does it seem so purposeful if it isn't, for instance? I certainly don't think intelligent design is the answer though. I don't think God (however you conceive her) micromanages everything to that extent.


How can a monkey on a completely separate island suddenly learn how to start washing it's food in the 'Hundredth monkey' phenomenon... Not to mention various other incredibly complex sets of behaviours (in animals and humans) considered to be merely instinctual? I am sure others can come up with other ideas.


I don't think the 'spark of life' has mass, but I do believe it is made of 'energy' - just a form of energy that we don't fully understand at this time.
 
Intelligent design does not imply a supreme being. The 'intelligence' is simply the propensity of that animated fundamental particle that is the bud of life to assert its properties on its environment. The Alphabet Souper's just haven't discovered our animated fundamental particle yet.


But don't give up hope, we've come a long way since Og discovered the wheel.


Actually, I remember Og...nice guy.
 
I couldn't help smiling because this thread reminded me of a conversation I had with my son aged 5, sometime ago. He was in the bathtub (a place of revelations in our homestead, it seems ;) ).


- I am cold - he said, then looked at me and paused a little and corrected himself:


- My body is cold, that is.- I waited, and gave him an encouraging look. Go on, I thought. He then said:


- So, I am not my body. I am me." New pause. "Who is me?"


- What do you think? - I asked.


- I am xxxxx (his name).... My body is mine, not me!" - deciding this was enough of an explanation.


- True indeed! - I said, and just smiled. He then winked at me.


Kids can be really cool sometimes.


I totally agree with you, ThOR - and it seems that it isn't rocket science at all, just plain logic for a five year old.... ;)
 
Whether you read Thomas Chalkey or listen to the Moody Blues, "There are none so blind as those who will not see."


Most of science is based on a foundation of self-evident principles - givens upon which all else is based
 
That's interesting ThOR. Would you care to elaborate further?


Surely the whole basis of science is being able to observe and repeat and never to accept an hypothesis until it can be thoroughly proven? Do you mean that, say, repeatability is a 'given' for intance?
 
Thomas Aquinas - Summa Theoligica: It seems that sacred doctrine is not a science. For every science proceeds from self-evident principles.


Aristotelian Problem of First Principles: First Principles do not need to be proven, not because they are self-evident, but because they are grounded in non-intuitive immediate knowledge.


Samples of (Presumed) Self Evident Principles -


At any given instant, the distance from point 'A' to point 'B' is equivalent to the distance between point 'B' and point 'A'


The number '1' can be added to any integer to produce a greater value.


The sum of any two non-zero positive values is larger than the value of either


Your Example: If a result can be repeated, the applied process is the cause.


Euclid's first axiom: any two points can be connected by a straight line.


Euclid's second axiom: Any straight line segment can be extended indefinitely in a straight line.


The "Six Self Evident Premises of Science"


Existence: There exists a physical world separate and distinct from our minds that is comprehensible through our senses. We expect in addition that it is governed by certain generalities called the “laws of nature.”


Causality: Events—effects—in the physical universe have natural causes. Causes precede effects and can be explained rationally in terms of the laws of nature.


Noncontradiction. Of two contradictory propositions, both cannot be true.


Position symmetry: The laws of nature are the same everywhere in the universe.


Time symmetry: The laws of nature have remained the same through time. They are the same now as they were in the distant past, and they will be the same in the future.


Simplicity (Occam’s Razor). If alternative explanations of any phenomenon are available, where each are logical and explain the phenomenon equally well, then the simplest explanation shall be chosen.


I find the first three self evident, the three last are questionable


It is impossible to develop a scientific process without beginning with a number of 'givens' or assumptions ... how 'bout this assumption: The past 59 years of my life have not been a hallucination


Actually I am not so sure about that one either.
 
Thanks THor for a great read! I look forward to more, you've touched my interest early this morning, I'll be thinking about this all day!: angel


Peace


Tinkerman
 
tanguerra said:
I don't think the 'spark of life' has mass, but I do believe it is made of 'energy' - just a form of energy that we don't fully understand at this time.
It doesn't take an Einstein to know that mass and energy are simply conditions...two different states of being of any given 'field of existence'.


Waitaminit....waitaminit...Sorry, I guess it DID take an Einstein to prove E=MC~2. But that is beside the point.


Within an entity, portions of its 'field' may have the property of mass and other portions may not. The conditions 'energy' and 'mass' may ebb and flow throughout the structure. It may regularly morph between the two states - which may explain how a miniscule elemental life seedling can control such a massive corpse.
 
Interesting case, Thor. I had to laugh at the Einstein remark! Scientific proof depends on observation, but not necessarily only with the eyes.
 
ButterflyPsyche said:
Interesting case, Thor. I had to laugh at the Einstein remark! Scientific proof depends on observation, but not necessarily only with the eyes.
Most people don't realize their essence - their identity - is a fundamental particle. It is an element with the natural trait of animation that is immersed in the mud of the planet. You can only 'be' one existence. By definition, a single existence IS a fundamental particle.


This kind of realization might be a boon to particle physicists who seek to explore the microcosm of the 'material world'. If they would only look inside themselves they might recognize the parallels.
 
Has it been four years?


Just reviewed my post from 2008 and realized I never explained the architecture of existence that forms the basis for the presumption life is the result of the nature of fundamental particles.


"Before something can change, before something can act or be acted upon, it must exist.


This is a rather simple axiom, intrinsically self-evident since any who might dissent must confess a belief in things that don't exist. If; however, this axiom is true, you must logically reject the mythology of Genesis and the mathology of Big Bang.


Existence in the absence of change is possible but change in the absence of existence is not. The fact that existence is required in order for cause and effect to occur means change is derived from the phenomenon of being which, in turn, means existence is the source of cause and effect, not the result of it. The Universe wasn't created. It wasn't magically conjured into existence by an omnipotent deity in a miraculous act of divine inspiration nor was it spewed from the bowels of some spontaneously spawned singularity in a process not governed by the laws of physics as we know them today.


No phenomenon can be the product of its own subordinate derivative, so the cosmos didn't suddenly transform from a condition of non-existence into a state of physical being. Existence isn't a condition or a state of being, it is the phenomenon of being, itself.


This isn't exactly rocket science. It doesn't require esoteric equations, no orbiting telescopes or expensive particle accelerators, you don't need a PHD in physics or even a grade school education to understand it. This is basic common sense.


So how do you explain the phenomenon of existence?


In the orderly hierarchy of logic, existence is obviously more fundamental than cause and effect, and if we parse the process of change one simple prevailing dynamic emerges; a ubiquitous paradigm found at the heart and soul of every equation, a familiar axiom that is universally known and accepted. Amazingly, its true significance has remained undiscovered since the inception of scientific inquiry.


Since existence is more fundamental than cause and effect and principles are more fundamental than the processes they govern, isn't it likely that the key which unlocks the enigma of existence is a principle rather than a process?


Ironically, that principle lays hidden in plain sight.


The Architecture of Existence


It's not by mere coincidence that mathematics - the language of science - encodes its logic into a device called an equation which requires its elements to be equivalent on opposite sides of the argument. Sir Isaac Newton codified this essence of natural balance with a law of physics that states every action precipitates an equal and opposite reaction. For every positive numeric value there is a negative equivalent and for every vector in our three dimensional world there exists a reciprocal. For every left there exists a right. For every too there is a fro. For every up there is a down. For every measure of distance point 'A' is separated from point 'B', point 'B' is an equal and opposite distance from point 'A'. This prevailing element of equilibrium courses throughout the entire fabric of the Universe.


What if this same paradigm of natural balance also applies to the realm of qualitative values? Each quality would have to be offset by an opposite equivalent. And, indeed, the Standard Model of particle physics does portray the material world as paired sets of fundamental particles and anti-particles, structureless, fungible building blocks that include a handful of quarks and leptons and a small assortment of force carriers. Strangely, there seems to be a lot more matter than anti-matter floating around the cosmos and if two independent particles were truly opposite existences rather than just elements in opposing condition, then instead of simply changing state from mass to energy on contact, all of their properties should entirely negate each other. No mass and no energy should remain; they should cease to exist without a trace.


The cosmic imbalance between matter and anti-matter and the fact that what the Standard Model calls annihilation is nothing more than mere conversion are problematic. The intuitive assumption of particle physicists is that qualities and anti-qualities must be disbursed between independent existences as separate particles and anti-particles, but there's another possibility. What if qualitative symmetry exists within the physical boundary of each entity?


If such qualitative balance exists, then each fundamental particle must have some form of substructure, dependent qualities and anti-qualities that cannot exist apart from the whole. We wouldn't normally be able to tell a quality from its anti-quality by just looking at it, but with the use of a little color coding I will attempt to illustrate how it may be possible for reciprocal qualitative values to exist within the physical boundaries of a single entity.


Rational Conjecture: The Substructure of a Fundamental Particle


Assume BLACK represents a null color value.


Within the realm of subtractive colors, the opposite (negative) of the color quality MAGENTA is GREEN. Equivalent proportions of MAGENTA and GREEN produce BLACK. But GREEN is, itself, an equal mixture of the colors CYAN and YELLOW.


Just as the quantitative value of Ø is equivalent to two opposing numbers (+1) + (-1), the qualitative value of BLACK is equivalent to its three opposing colors MAGENTA + CYAN + YELLOW. All of the opposing sub-elements must be present in precisely equal proportion in order to reciprocally balance each other and maintain a neutral value. Of course the number of opposing sub-elements within a fundamental particle may not be limited in scope to just two or three or any other finite number.


Reciprocal balance requires the qualitative value of every instance of being within an entity to have an opposite equivalent - but that doesn't mean the quality of each point of existence has a diametric opposite (two defined points offsetting each other). Opposing sub-qualities of any fraction of an element may be disbursed throughout the remainder of the entity. Just as the colors in the illustration above, if any fraction of the color wheel is removed, the sum of the remaining colors would not be 'perfectly black', its value would be something other than neutral and a law of nature would be broken.


The substructure of a fundamental particle is not comprised of independent elements that could exist separately on their own. The very existence of each point within the entity is co-dependent upon the existence of the remainder of the parcel. Every physical instance within the element is an interdependent contributor to its neutrality; and it is this reciprocal balance - not structureless homogeneity - that defines it as a single existence, an element comprised only of itself, an irreducible integral of null value.


In the realm of macro-physics it seems two things cannot simultaneously occupy the same space - which is why we have automobile insurance. But two points of being within a fundamental particle are not two individual things, they are two physical instances of the same thing, mutually co-dependent fractions of an elemental identity. The rules of conduct within an entity may be very different from those that govern the interaction between two entities. Internally, an entity's sub-qualities may have the ability to morph or blend like the colors in the illustration above to produce a spectrum of different conditions, a limitless variety of states of being.
 
"Before something can change, before something can act or be acted upon, it must exist....
My two cents:


In the here and now, in the world, there is one thing we all share - the faculty of consciousness. The difference and the difficulty lies in the forms that consciousness takes on. Those forms are our personal reality, we know it, we experience it. The problem is - we mistake our personal reality for physical reality; we believe - we are in direct contact with the world "out there."


It is hard for us to realize that the colors, the sounds the objects we see are not "out there" they are all images within the mind, pictures of reality we have constructed. Science seems to be aware of this based on the current books I have been reading.


Immanuel Kant insisted that the thing itself remains forever beyond our knowing and that the mind is an active participant in the process always shaping our experience of the world. He believed that reality is something we each construct for ourselves and that all we can ever know is how reality appears in our minds.


If this is true about physical reality, what does this suggest about past life experiences? The world around us is composed of physical matter, but the world we perceive around us, is not the physical world. That's a hard one. ;)


If every thought, feeling, color, sound, or sensation is a form that consciousness takes on, it appears that as far as the world is concerned, everything is structured in consciousness. Even time and space.

To us, the reality of space and time seems undeniable. They appear to be fundamental dimensions of the physical world, entirely independent of our consciousness. This, said Kant, is because we cannot see the world in any other way. The human mind is so constituted that it is forced to construct is experience within the framework of space and time. Space and time are not, however, fundamental dimensions of the underlying reality. They are fundamental dimensions of consciousness.- Peter Russell
If our experience is constructed by consciousness, and we create our realities, I wonder if when we have a past life experience - is it because we have reached a place within that is termed samadhi (still mind) and then we are able to move consciousness beyond our awareness of time and space?


Samadhi is a state of mind - there is awareness, a person is wide awake, but there is no object of awareness. It is pure consciousness, consciousness before it takes on various forms and qualities of a particular experience. Buddhists speak of this.


Physical reality appears to be all around us. I can say I see it, feel it, smell, touch and know it. When a past life experience happens....... I see it, I feel it, I touch and I know it.


The difficulties we have in understanding past life experiences seems to also be true for physical reality. To understand experience, we need to understand consciousness and it appears science is still attempting to do so.


All we can speak of regarding past lives - is our experience. All we can ever know is within us. Reality, isn't happening - out there, but then neither are past lives from my point of view.
 
Deborah said:
All we can speak of regarding past lives - is our experience. All we can ever know is within us. Reality, isn't happening - out there, but then neither are past lives from my point of view.
This is so correct that I even feel it within me! A very comfortable resonance...
 
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