Is the censorship of the promotion of hate a good idea? Is hate evil?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Is the censorship of the promotion of hate a good idea? Is hate evil?

Many think that hating is evil. I do not as I see hate as being born of love. We, as evolving animals default to cooperation and love. When we create our love bias, we automatically create a hate bias for whatever would threaten what we love.

We usually think of a hate speech to be misapplied hate. It often is. If we censor what we see as hate speech, we risk stifling ideas on what we should genuinely hate. Some things should definitely be hated. We add to the list daily. Poverty, crime and new atrocities of all kinds that modern times produce. Even open slavery. All of our heroes and Gods hated something. That is what drove them to do the hero thing. Hate in many ways seems to be good.

“Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." - Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart

Our internet providers, et al, are already hip deep into censorship and showing us that they are insecure in our judgement, while trusting their own. Many governments are also getting into more censorship.

The last thing I need is to have my hate speech censored by some unknown person whose morals might be lower than mine.

Censorship would end the freedom of thought and actions that we now enjoy. It would stifle our search for new heroes and Gods. It would lead to political and mental stagnation.

What are your thoughts on your freedom of speech being under direct censorship by government to the degree that they can now as well as even tighter controls on the way.

Hate and hate speech is good if well applied. Should it be censored?

Regards
DL

 

[KenJ]

Welcome to the forum DL, I had not thought of hate speech and its association with reincarnation.

As for its restriction on this, and similar forums there are good reasons for restrictions in my opinion, something like someone painting graffiti on your house as far as the forum owners are concerned. Shouting "Fire" in a theater or similar situation where panic could easily create personal injury is another type of censorship that should be common sense to most people.

My personal opinion about obvious hate speech is that it shows the developmental level of the speaker, and/or their inflexibility. So, with respect to reincarnation, it would perhaps be an indication of what they need to work through in this lifetime. I'm surprised by your remarks if you are indeed the age you state in your profile, perhaps I need an example of an instance where it is "well applied" and appropriate.

Perhaps Masrk Zuckerberg's recent congressional testimony is the inspiration for your question in which case I would say that there is a difference between vigorous debate and hate speech.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Welcome to the forum DL, I had not thought of hate speech and its association with reincarnation. As for its restriction on this, and similar forums there are good reasons for restrictions in my opinion, something like someone painting graffiti on your house as far as the forum owners are concerned. Shouting "Fire" in a theater or similar situation where panic could easily create personal injury is another type of censorship that should be common sense to most people.

My personal opinion about obvious hate speech is that it shows the developmental level of the speaker, and/or their inflexibility. So, with respect to reincarnation, it would perhaps be an indication of what they need to work through in this lifetime. I'm surprised by your remarks if you are indeed the age you state in your profile, perhaps I need an example of an instance where it is "well applied" and appropriate.

Perhaps Masrk Zuckerberg's recent congressional testimony is the inspiration for your question in which case I would say that there is a difference between vigorous debate and hate speech.

Hi Ken.

I hope that all topics here will not all be restricted to reincarnation.

As to my well applied and appropriate. Let me assume you are an Ohioan and thus American.

Think of the Civil War between the North and South. The North would have had to get the anti-slavery forces whipped up by speaking hate against the practice and the people who practiced it. It is hard to separate a person from their ideology unless one uses a lot of Politically Correct language.

Is ending slavery a well applied and appropriate use of hate to you?

I think it is but being Canadian, I might a slightly different take than you on slavery.

Regards
DL

 

[fireflydancing]

What is hate? I don't know personally. As soon as I disagree too much with someone, I simply disconnect.
I hate stupid people but I don't hate them, I just disconnect so they cannot interfere with my life.

Recently I had flashes/memories/visions of a former life in which I was a person that had done 'bad' things and probably (not sure) to someone who is a close friend in this life. I was shocked (and depressed) but immediately she said: I don't care, whatever you've done to me in the past is the past, I forgive you all. I know who you are now, that's enough.

In this life, several people did things to me that are not ok (understatement) but I am not going to lose my energy in feelings of hate. I've been angry, of course, but hate seems to me the stagnation of anger. It brings you nowhere and makes you prisoner of your own mind.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

What is hate? I don't know personally. As soon as I disagree too much with someone, I simply disconnect.
I hate stupid people but I don't hate them, I just disconnect so they cannot interfere with my life.

Recently I had flashes/memories/visions of a former life in which I was a person that had done 'bad' things and probably (not sure) to someone who is a close friend in this life. I was shocked (and depressed) but immediately she said: I don't care, whatever you've done to me in the past is the past, I forgive you all. I know who you are now, that's enough.

In this life, several people did things to me that are not ok (understatement) but I am not going to lose my energy in feelings of hate. I've been angry, of course, but hate seems to me the stagnation of anger. It brings you nowhere and makes you prisoner of your own mind.

Can Yin be Yin without Yang?

You may not want to admit that when you create a positive bias, you automatically create a negative bias against what would go against you positive bias.

If you love your wife, for instance, when you formed that love, you also formed a hate, dormant till useful, against anyone who would come between you and your wife. No?

If you know how to love, you will know how to hate as all hate is born from love.

Have a look at this link of (you) as a baby, and return to tell us when you changed your survival technique, in terms of creating biases, to one that is inferior to the one you were born with.

Regards
DL

 

[KenJ]

Reincarnation is not the only topic allowed DL, it was just a little different to have the first post by someone being on a topic so unrelated. Usually the first few posts are responses to other posts or reincarnation-related. I've been too close to recipients of hate attacks to have much regard for it. An example is that a friend of mine was the Director of the Board of Elections in 2004 and received death threats from idiots from all over, she even was interviewed by a magazine which fueled additional hate emails. Another example was that one of my granddaughters did not have a date for her senior prom, the owner of a farm, where my granddaughter worked in their barn in trade for boarding her horse, treated her to a surprise be secretly arranging for her nephew to come visit from California and take her to the prom. The young man had done some bit parts in some movies so it was rather a big deal and worked out well (although he and my grandson hit it off a bit better). An article was written-up in news papers about a "girl being surprised with a Hollywood actor prom date" which brought about a rash of the most vile and ridiculous comments I had ever heard - those were my thoughts when you wrote "hate speech", and those are the experiences that lead me to move away from people that use it.

From your example, it would seem that you are drawing the line for hate speech a lot lower - into heated debate territory. The problems that I see are the demeaning of another person rather than a discussion of the issues - the creation of an atmosphere where each protagonist pushes the other more staunchly into their previously held position rather than finding understandings in each other's positions. I recall being confused by the "White Only" signs on drinking fountains, beaches, and doors while visiting the southern states in the 1940's, so I had a front-row seat during that period that current race-baiters still use to ignite fury and division yet today.

This discussion leads me to a post about the Civil War that I recently read.

Spoiler

Who is the greatest person that history has forgotten?

Adi Redzic

While it seems impossible to single out the “greatest person” from history, whether remembered or forgotten, I am quite fond of a seemingly “average” couple whose decision to do the right thing had an incredible impact on the world.

Meet Moses and Susan from Diamond, Missouri. Their single decision ended up saving two billion people from starvation.

Intrigued?

Moses and Susan were farmers who, in the 1860’s, lived in a slave state, but did not believe in slavery. Consequently, they were a target for bigots like Quantrill’s Raiders who terrorized the area.

One cold January night, the Raiders rode through their farm, burned the barn, shot several people, and kidnapped a woman named Mary Washington who refused to let go of her infant son, George. Although the Carvers technically owned Mary and her children, as was the case with many farmers in the South at that time, it’s reported that Susan was in fact friends with Mary. In the aftermath of this dark event, she worked tirelessly to contact nearby farms and neighboring cities in order to secure a meeting between Moses and the bandits.

Two days later, Moses rode off to meet with the bandits at a crossroad in Kansas, several hours north. At the arranged time, Moses met up with four of them, each carrying torches and with caps over their heads. At the meeting, the farmer traded the only horse they had left in exchange for a dirty sack and its contents. As the bandits took off, Moses fell on his knees and there, alone on that dark winter night, he pulled from the bag a naked, almost-dead baby boy. He quickly opened his coat and shirt and pressed the baby to his own skin. Covering him with his own clothes and relying on his body’s warmth, Moses began the journey home. He walked through the night and into the next day to get the child to Susan. There, they made a commitment to the child–and to each other–that they would care for him and make sure he receives an education, in memory of his mother Mary who was already dead.

They also gave the boy their name and from then on raised him as George Washington Carver.

Yes, THAT George Washington Carver, the so-called “Peanut Man”.

Okay, but how did they save two billion people?

Well, George Washington Carver grew up to love botany and, thanks to another teacher, Etta May Budd who fiercely fought against racism, ended up at Iowa State. At ISU, he had a Dairy Sciences professor who would allow his six-year old son to go on weekend botanical expeditions with Carver. By engaging him and sharing his passion, Carver instilled in the boy a love for botany and a powerful vision of what plants could do for humanity, effectively pointing his life in a particular direction.

This boy was Henry Wallace.

Wallace grew up to, among other things, become the U.S. Secretary of Agriculture and Vice President, under FDR. During a trip to Mexico, he saw the importance of corn for the diet of many Mexicans, but also their struggle to produce enough. This is when he decided to create a station in Mexico with a sole purpose of hybridizing corn and wheat for dry climates.

He hired Norman Borlaug, a talented young scientist from Iowa, to lead the charge on this project.

Soon after, Borlaug discovered a way to hybridize high-yield, disease-resistant corn and wheat for dry climates. His product flourished in the most remote and driest places on the earth, regenerating like no other. As a result, over the years, his discovery saved an estimated two billion people from starvation.

[Later, Borlaug won the 1970 Nobel Prize for Peace, and also the US Presidential Medal of Freedom for his contributions.]

But who really saved these two billion people?

Borlaug, who was given the opportunity by Wallace? Or Wallace, who developed the passion for and learned the potential of bio-innovation from Carver? Or Carver, who created hundreds of products out of sweet potato and peanut (although, not peanut butter), but whose very life was saved by Moses and Susan?

Or was it Moses and Susan, a couple of farmers from Missouri, who believed in doing the right thing even under difficult conditions?

What is more, how many lives have these two billion positively affected and, indeed, saved ever since?

Are you and I among those two billion?

Even though many of us struggle to see our value, or the concrete ways we contribute to the world, this story illustrates that each of us plays an enormous role in the universe. We might never see the effects of our labor or our decisions, but that doesn’t mean we are not changing the world ever day—for better or for worse.

History may never remember what we have said or done, but that doesn’t diminish the impact we make daily—in big and small ways—or the lives we will save long after we are gone!

Not really pertinent to the topic, but I thought it was interesting.

 

[baro-san]

Seth:

"The negative subjective and objective events that you meet are meant to make you examine the contents of your own conscious mind. In their way the hateful or revengeful thoughts are natural therapeutic devices, for if you follow them, accepting them with their own validity as feelings, they will automatically lead you beyond themselves; they will change into other feelings, carrying you from hatred into what may seem to be the quicksands of fear - which is always behind hatred. By going along with feelings you unify your emotional, mental and bodily state. When you try to fight or deny them, you divorce yourself from the reality of your being."
Session 644, Page 212

"Love and hate are both based upon self-identification in your experience. You do not bother to love or hate persons you cannot identify with at all. They leave you relatively untouched. They do not elicit deep emotion."
Session 673, Page 406​

Government isn't the only wide spread censor. Think about political correctness!

The problem with hate speech is that it can have tragic consequences, inspiring and embolding others to commit vile, even atrocious acts.

Personally I think there's no acceptable hate speech, no matter the lofty goal.

Any way, this is a forum dedicated to discussions about reincarnation, even that with some restrictions. Whoever offers a forum for discussion has the right to restrict it to whatever they desire.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

those were my thoughts when you wrote "hate speech", and those are the experiences that lead me to move away from people that use it.

Yelling contests are not worth getting into. A controlled discussion or debate is a good way to have both sides hear the other side and decide on controversial issue or any issues for that matter.

Remember that Jesus said he came for the sick and not the well. you and I hanging about with like minded people may be less stressful but it is also not doing unto others etc. if it is a debate or discussion on homophobia or misogyny that is avoided.

As a Gnostic Christian, I am always quick to fight those evils.

You know what they say. For evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.

Not really pertinent to the topic, but I thought it was interesting.

I like reading of the old days as history is never what you think it is. I just finished a book that speaks of the early days of the Mormons and how the hooligans and even other state governments used violence against them.

As to reincarnation, I have an itch to scratch thanks to personal experience in terms of knowing things I had no way of knowing when young. Not lives particularly but just the odd word or phrase that I would wake up with and have a hard time verifying even the existence of the new word. My home town was small and had a limited library and my formal education was basically non-existent. I am basically self taught.

I know for a fact that telepathy is real and that allowed me to find what I call a cosmic consciousness. I did not pick up any information on it for reincarnation but it could be a place for our consciousness to hang out between earthly visits. Gnostic Christianity speaks of a oneness of all things which I see, but I am not yet sure as to how reincarnation fits in. I have read a number of reports and anecdotal renderings and am curious more than convinced. Over time here, I will see if I am swayed more in the for or against direction.

On the cosmic consciousness and telepathy thing; if you have an interest in seeing what I may have found on my own, this scientist is replicating what I might have found without his machines.

I found it all interesting but the part I want to show you starts at the 19.mim. mark.

Regards
DL

 

[Tinkerman]

Hello forum members interested in this thread. It was removed for administrative review yesterday and now returned. Posts have been edited and some removed. Those removed were off topic and or vexatious in some regard. As Chris said earlier please keep postings civil and kindhearted. Administrators and moderators are well versed on what content is welcomed on the forum by its owners. This is a good and interesting topic. Its content is within our parameters. If any members have questions on this regard please direct them to an administrator via private message conversations. Thanks everyone for your participation and understanding. ~Tinkerman, Administrator

 

[Angie Brown]

Yelling contests are not worth getting into. A controlled discussion or debate is a good way to have both sides hear the other side and decide on controversial issue or any issues for that matter.

Remember that Jesus said he came for the sick and not the well. you and I hanging about with like minded people may be less stressful but it is also not doing unto others etc. if it is a debate or discussion on homophobia or misogyny that is avoided.

As a Gnostic Christian, I am always quick to fight those evils.

You know what they say. For evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.



I like reading of the old days as history is never what you think it is. I just finished a book that speaks of the early days of the Mormons and how the hooligans and even other state governments used violence against them.

As to reincarnation, I have an itch to scratch thanks to personal experience in terms of knowing things I had no way of knowing when young. Not lives particularly but just the odd word or phrase that I would wake up with and have a hard time verifying even the existence of the new word. My home town was small and had a limited library and my formal education was basically non-existent. I am basically self taught.

I know for a fact that telepathy is real and that allowed me to find what I call a cosmic consciousness. I did not pick up any information on it for reincarnation but it could be a place for our consciousness to hang out between earthly visits. Gnostic Christianity speaks of a oneness of all things which I see, but I am not yet sure as to how reincarnation fits in. I have read a number of reports and anecdotal renderings and am curious more than convinced. Over time here, I will see if I am swayed more in the for or against direction.

On the cosmic consciousness and telepathy thing; if you have an interest in seeing what I may have found on my own, this scientist is replicating what I might have found without his machines.

I found it all interesting but the part I want to show you starts at the 19.mim. mark.

Regards
DL

Quite. Yelling contests are not worth getting into.
I often wonder why, if we are put here to learn, why we must forget so much, some forget everything, from pl's. How are we meant to learn if we are robbed of our memmories? Some may subconciously carry insensible and cruel prejudices from a pl and not remembering where the prejudice began can impede them from overcoming the problem.
For instance, all peoples and nations have done good and evil albeit some have done more of one than others. Peaceful Hopi were massacred by violent whites and other natives alike, but even the Hopi would have done some 'bad' things to their local enviroment just to survive. Whilst other peoples have a long history of doing truly evil things to their own and others. So we hate what we see as bad, but what is bad is often seen as relative to the situation so great wrongs are often a result of a paradigm of the situation and a time - and the paradigm can give rise to hate. Of course, two wrongs never make a right, but i'm not sure how we are meant to rationalise our own perceptions and experiences now, without linking to pl knowledge - particularly with regard to the 'lies of history' where each new generation is told a different narrative to the narrative that was true of an earlier time. How are people supposed to reconcile and resolve the human condition of hate without the wisdom of their own pl memmories?

I agree thoroughly that there are things we should hate. Dire poverty, cruelty, deliberate neglect, greed etc., but when so many have had pl as both victim and perpetrator, and so few much remember the truths and the paradigms of the situations and lives of the time, it would seem impossible for enough of us to learn to 'let go' of past wrongs (personal, national and international) and to move forward to prevent the worst of history being repeated. We wouldn't have wars - or at least would have far fewer by now if enough people remembered what they were told of previous wars and what started them. At least most people would collectively take steps to avoid and disallow the things that must be fomented in order to start wars.

So to me, hate is wrapped up at least in large part, not only in what people learn in the current life but in not always having let go of mis-education in a past life and not being able to remember enough to realise the source of their attitude.

My own hate - being forced to come back yet again. Apart from that, I hate evil and cruelty which most people also hate. Quite a lot of people, a sizeable minority, revel in hate and cruely though. They probably don't remember their pl's.

I hope I made sense (I know I tend to go around the houses, as it were).

 

[fireflydancing]

Can Yin be Yin without Yang?

You may not want to admit that when you create a positive bias, you automatically create a negative bias against what would go against you positive bias.

If you love your wife, for instance, when you formed that love, you also formed a hate, dormant till useful, against anyone who would come between you and your wife. No?

If you know how to love, you will know how to hate as all hate is born from love.

Regards
DL

I am sorry to say, but hate is not the Yang to my Yin. Probably because I do not consider myself 'good' although I make choices that I consider to be 'good'. Just choices. I know I can easily do bad things, done some I guess, no regrets.
And if someone would come between my husband and me... it's my husband to make the choices, I wouldn't hate the other person. Wouldn't even hate my husband.
Someone in this life tried to kill my child but still, I don't feel hate. I am glad everybody survived and of course, I've been angry and I did not forgive. But I disconnected because it's the past and I try to live in the Present.
And about love: love is not possessing someone. I do not own my lovers, I do not own my children. My self-worth is not in a relationship.

 

[KenJ]

...but i'm not sure how we are meant to rationalise our own perceptions and experiences now, without linking to pl knowledge

I noticed in another thread that you had a definite opinion of Edgar Cayce, how did you come about that strong feeling, did you know him in the past? My thoughts are that you have formed an opinion based on something other than reading about his life.

And if someone would come between my husband and me... it's my husband to make the choices, I wouldn't hate the other person. Wouldn't even hate my husband.

That is something that is very difficult for most people to comprehend, I appreciate your understanding of that. The possessiveness that accompanies most relationships is difficult for them to distinguish from some aspect of "love" rather than a fear of loss. We differ only in the area of forgiveness which is more difficult for most people - we would have to be in another's exact position and frame of mind to understand something well enough to be totally unforgiving IMO. It is like the saying "You can't have something until you let go of it" that takes a bit of living to truly understand.

 

[Angie Brown]

I noticed in another thread that you had a definite opinion of Edgar Cayce, how did you come about that strong feeling, did you know him in the past? My thoughts are that you have formed an opinion based on something other than reading about his life.


That is something that is very difficult for most people to comprehend, I appreciate your understanding of that. The possessiveness that accompanies most relationships is difficult for them to distinguish from some aspect of "love" rather than a fear of loss. We differ only in the area of forgiveness which is more difficult for most people - we would have to be in another's exact position and frame of mind to understand something well enough to be totally unforgiving IMO. It is like the saying "You can't have something until you let go of it" that takes a bit of living to truly understand.

I have only just begun posting on the forum in the past couple of days, after a lot of reading to be sure it wasn't full of a lot of over-imagininatives (it isn't ), and i'm certain I haven't mentioned Cayce before on this nor any other social media. Not even in private letters, emails nor verbal discussions either. Never once in my life in fact, and the people in my family and friends have unlikely even read of or heard of him.

That was the first time I ever mentioned him to anyone. Having read a little about the man (which may or may not be true) I got the creeps and read no further. Purely what I read. I am certain I never knew him, nor anyone similar in any life (my pl's just weren't esoteric or particularly sprirtual as mostly just living day to day was generally time and energy consuming enough. Lol).

Someone else on the thread mentioned him though, which was why I threw in my two pennyworth.

Best wishes

Angie