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Losing identity when enlightened souls finally merge into the Creator?

amifriend

amifriend

New Member
I have been reading Dr. Michael Newton's books and a few other books (mostly Japanese authors) on reincarnation. I also took my first PL regression session the other day.

I am wondering if any of you have an idea of what it would be like to be "merged" with the Creator (or the Source, or Divinity) as our final goal when we finish incarnating on the Earth, take many more lessons as souls and are finally enlightened enough. Dr. Newton's books and many others refer to this concept, but does this mean that the identity of every one of us gets melded into something bigger and we will lose our self-consciousness? If so, why do we ever want to be merged with the Creator, losing all the identity and our own experiences? Or if we are enlightened enough, will we be willing to give up all those individual part of ourselves for a higher cause? And after we get "merged", what would we do - do we just act passively as part of the Creator like a reactive cell in a body, or are we given our own "jobs" to contribute to the cosmos, just like the time when we are not merged yet? Does anyone has an idea? Any books or references on this issue?

I may sound strange, but as an ordinary human being (and a young soul I believe), I would not want to take fast steps in learning if our ultimate goal involved losing unique identity in each of us; in that case I would prefer keeping reincarnated as lives similar to the current one (not the easiest but not super hard either) o_O I heard somewhere of the idea of becoming one with the Creator while keeping one's identity like leaves on a big tree, but I didn't quite get it...

Thank you for taking time reading this and your idea will be much appreciated!:)
 
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I think of this "merging" as similar to how elements merge to make a whole. My body is made up of many, many cells. Some form my heart. Some form other distinct muscles. Others form my brain matter. Many shape my nerves or fill my blood vessels. I am "a merged collection of many entities" so to speak. And when you look closer, the gut actually has whole colonies of various forms of life as does the skin. Some of my most essential "parts" don't even have the same genetic program as the primary body system.

Essentially, whatever is happening to others is also directly affecting us, too. Starving the hand also starves the rest of the body. Illness in the skin is illness for the whole body. What I do to you affects me. What you do to me affects you. There is no such thing as "the other" if by "other" you mean that their situation or experiences have nothing to do with you. The health of social systems and individuals on the other side of the world directly and immediately affect our health, no matter where we may live.

Rather than "becoming part of the whole" when we are enlightened I think we will instead realize that we already were part of the whole all along. We are already there, just unaware. Consciousness is enlightenment.
 
Thank you Mere Dreamer for your response!
If I understand correctly, "merging" is more about "realizing" who we really are and ultimately knowing about ourselves, others and the cosmos, instead of having our soul structure altered or dissolved :)
 
amifriend said:
Thank you Mere Dreamer for your response!
If I understand correctly, "merging" is more about "realizing" who we really are and ultimately knowing about ourselves, others and the cosmos, instead of having our soul structure altered or dissolved :)
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Pretty much. There's some maturing included, of course, because awareness changes behavior.
 
“I am wondering if any of you have an idea of what it would be like to be "merged" with the Creator (or the Source, or Divinity) as our final goal”


In the view of Hindu thought there is no gulf to cross to merge with some different entity as we are already that. Brahman, who is ‘God’ in the true sense of the word in this beliefs system is Consciousness (Rig Veda IV 40:5 & Aitareya Upanishad 3.2.2). This not some separate category of consciousness with various levels but that which is the ‘Witness’ within each of us (Rig Veda X 164:20,21 & Mandukya Upanishad 3.1.1), which is really only one. There is no separation or parts of Consciousness (Tejobindu Upanishad 3), that is illusion.

“The essence and the whole of Vedanta is this Knowledge: that I am by nature the formless, all-pervasive Self. There is no doubt that I am that God who is the Self of all, pure, indivisible, like the sky naturally stainless.”

- Avadhuta Gita 1.5,6
 
Virochana Asura said:
“I am wondering if any of you have an idea of what it would be like to be "merged" with the Creator (or the Source, or Divinity) as our final goal”


In the view of Hindu thought there is no gulf to cross to merge with some different entity as we are already that. Brahman, who is ‘God’ in the true sense of the word in this beliefs system is Consciousness (Rig Veda IV 40:5 & Aitareya Upanishad 3.2.2). This not some separate category of consciousness with various levels but that which is the ‘Witness’ within each of us (Rig Veda X 164:20,21 & Mandukya Upanishad 3.1.1), which is really only one. There is no separation or parts of Consciousness (Tejobindu Upanishad 3), that is illusion.

“The essence and the whole of Vedanta is this Knowledge: that I am by nature the formless, all-pervasive Self. There is no doubt that I am that God who is the Self of all, pure, indivisible, like the sky naturally stainless.”

- Avadhuta Gita 1.5,6
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Ok V Asura (God), tell yourself, me, also God, and everyone else, also God, how you can live only with yourself, knowing that you know all kinds of nonsense, if Hinduism is it? Because if Hinduism is it, the one and true explanation of reality, why the need for all those other fake and plagiarized religions? Why can I not believe you, or really myself, since God is both you and I? And how do you know what is and is not an illusion? Only God can do that, and since I'm God, as you say that there is no separation and no individuality (no duality), I will tell you there is duality, as you are not God, but I Am, in this case, and since I Am that I Am, because according to you, there is only one God, one consciousness; I think, therefore I am God, the one and only God. And I will tell you, a figment of my imagination, that I lied to myself when I wrote all the Hindu texts. Not only them, but all of the religious text that I can read and study through my other figments of my imagination, you and the rest of everything else that exists, materialistically, or spiritually. And I can further say to you, speaking to myself, that is, that I Am sick and tired of arguing with myself, and I'm going to bring an end to myself, meaning all of "yous", and create another Me. But this time around I will remind myself to forget and not remember who I Am, or that anything else is just another part of me, so that I do not have to argue with myself all over again. Who in hell wants to do that? I ask myself, since there is no one else in existence, is it any fun to win, or lose, just playing with yourself, I mean myself? Therefore, I will create another me, but just an image not remembering to be me, and as in a reflection of the mirror, one that is the opposite to me. Therefore I will create me, man and woman. Who came first, the woman or the man, is of no importance since, technically, I'm still one, in reality.

However, you can make the same argument, since you are God also, and in this perspective I and the others become the figments of your imagination, dear God. You will have only one God for yourselves, because I Am that I Am, and there is no one else but me. Therefore tell them, I mean tell me, that I Am has sent you, I mean me, you, and them, that is, you have sent yourself to the other yourselves, to tell yourself that you have sent yourself by way of another self to the other selves that you will deliver some of yourself yourself from some other yourself....and so it goes unto yourself for eternity, one only with your other selves, alone and lonely in a world of your own, on your own with no one other than yourself. And this is heaven, the one and only. Only the lonely know how I feel, meaning I'm the only one who knows how I feel. And right now, I feel fine, like I know that I would, since I'm God and know everything possible and impossible. And it's just impossible for you, or any other puny human to reach so high, if you think you are just another part of the one and only God. Yes, there is only one God, but of us there are billions upon billions, and what God is, only God knows, the rest of us have only opinions. And your opinion is as good or as bad as any other. Or rather, Hinduism is just as good, or bad as any other religion, as they are all illogical and pointing to a "senseless" place. What they all have in common, the main religions, I mean, is that golden thread of truth, REINCARNATION, which hold the tapestry together. Now the point is, just what is reincarnation for? What does it provide to us? And most importantly, what is the purpose of reincarnation? That my friends, whether I'm speaking to myself, or if you all really exist, is something known only to God, and God had a good reason for keeping things only to Himself, and leaving us only with opinions and doubts. That is the name of the Game of life, but it does have certain rules. And if ever I have known God, I will repeat, with a certain amount of uncertainty, what I heard long, long ago, and also repeated it myself to some of my friends, and perhaps only in my dreams and imagination, nevertheless, still holding true today, since it's an eternal decree, and this decree is that we follow always after justice and virtue.

And thus, Glaucon, the tale has been saved and has not perished, and will
save us if we are obedient to the word spoken; and we shall pass safely over the
river of Forgetfulness and our soul will not be defiled. Wherefore my counsel is
that we hold fast ever to the heavenly way and follow after justice and virtue
always, considering that the soul is immortal and able to endure every sort of
good and every sort of evil. Thus shall we live dear to one another and to the
gods, both while remaining here and when, like conquerors in the games who
go round to gather gifts, we receive our reward. And it shall be well with us
both in this life and in the pilgrimage of a thousand years which we have been
describing.

 
Native Son,

You are confusing categories and working with fuzzy definitions. The eternal and unchanging Consciousness is not identified with the transient body/mind complex and it's biographical ego. Thus, your comments, though mildly amusing in their sand box of error, are misdirected.
 
amifriend said:
I have been reading Dr. Michael Newton's books and a few other books (mostly Japanese authors) on reincarnation. I also took my first PL regression session the other day.

I am wondering if any of you have an idea of what it would be like to be "merged" with the Creator (or the Source, or Divinity) as our final goal when we finish incarnating on the Earth, take many more lessons as souls and are finally enlightened enough. Dr. Newton's books and many others refer to this concept, but does this mean that the identity of every one of us gets melded into something bigger and we will lose our self-consciousness? If so, why do we ever want to be merged with the Creator, losing all the identity and our own experiences? Or if we are enlightened enough, will we be willing to give up all those individual part of ourselves for a higher cause? And after we get "merged", what would we do - do we just act passively as part of the Creator like a reactive cell in a body, or are we given our own "jobs" to contribute to the cosmos, just like the time when we are not merged yet? Does anyone has an idea? Any books or references on this issue?

I may sound strange, but as an ordinary human being (and a young soul I believe), I would not want to take fast steps in learning if our ultimate goal involved losing unique identity in each of us; in that case I would prefer keeping reincarnated as lives similar to the current one (not the easiest but not super hard either) o_O I heard somewhere of the idea of becoming one with the Creator while keeping one's identity like leaves on a big tree, but I didn't quite get it...

Thank you for taking time reading this and your idea will be much appreciated!:)
Click to expand...

Hi there!
I've given this a lot of thought myself, which is why I became a Jodo Shinshu Buddhist (also called "Shin" Buddhism). Shin Buddhism teaches about escaping from the painful cycle of birth-and-death forever, i.e. becoming a Buddha through the other power agency of the great savior-Buddha, Amida (aka Amitabha). As a Buddha, we won't worry about our past identities as incarnated beings in the past, because there are no attachments between a Buddha and his past lives, not even a sexual identity, just a blissful state of Nirvana. I don't worry about losing my identity when I become a Buddha. I love my identity here as an incarnated being and enjoy writing music and poetry, but I know that when I go to Amida's Pure Land when I die, all these attachments will just dissolve and fade away, and I'll enjoy eternal happiness and bliss! - Rick
 
Rick, I am glad that you have found a belief/dogma/reality that gives you comfort. I would encourage you to read the forum guidelines after familiarizing yourself with the word proselytize.
 
Richard St. Clair said:
Hi there!
I've given this a lot of thought myself, which is why I became a Jodo Shinshu Buddhist (also called "Shin" Buddhism). Shin Buddhism teaches about escaping from the painful cycle of birth-and-death forever, i.e. becoming a Buddha through the other power agency of the great savior-Buddha, Amida (aka Amitabha). As a Buddha, we won't worry about our past identities as incarnated beings in the past, because there are no attachments between a Buddha and his past lives, not even a sexual identity, just a blissful state of Nirvana. I don't worry about losing my identity when I become a Buddha. I love my identity here as an incarnated being and enjoy writing music and poetry, but I know that when I go to Amida's Pure Land when I die, all these attachments will just dissolve and fade away, and I'll enjoy eternal happiness and bliss! - Rick
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Happy is he who thinks he is happy! Happy journey to your Pure Land, but I hope not just yet. Stick around and don't fade away, as Buddha was no slouch when it came to wisdom too, although he did fade away quite quickly, and unnoticed by his disciples. However, before leaving the Buddha said, “The moment you know how your suffering came to be, you are already on the path of release from it.” From your description of what you are loving and are now enjoying, it does not sound much like suffering, and I gather that you are not ready to leave us for good, just yet.
 
Sorry, my apologies, I didn't mean to proselytize. I thought I was answering the question about one's spiritual future after death and losing one's identity/merging with the almighty etc. My faith speaks directly to those questions, and I was only speaking from my perspective. I was not urging anyone to adopt my faith. I will go back and read the guidelines on proselytizing.
 
Rick, I apologize for my public post, I should have done it through a conversation (PM). I have read and accepted many of the things pertinent to Buddhism, it is particularly interesting in that it was a system that so closely resembles Christianity and survived for centuries and then to have to overrun by forces that it had by then become unfamiliar with (colonialism/materialism etc.). I truly do respect the basic philosophy, it is just that the purpose of this forum needs to be considered as well as balancing our enthusiasm with the tolerance of others.

Something just entered my mind about this, a book that was very important to me at the time, If You Meet The Buddha on the Road, Kill Him, spoke of the wrongness in following too closely to something outside yourself, or taking it into yourself, whichever way you want to look at it. Of course, the other reason for the book's attraction was brain damage, my injury and Sheldon's tumor, both of us readjusting our Realities. But that is as tangential to Buddhism as "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" is to either Zen or motorcycle maintenance!

I further apologize for my typo, I meant proselytize rather than what I typed originally.
 
Thank you very much to all for sharing your insightful thoughts.
Though I am not inclined towards a specific religion and would avoid making any judgmental comments on religions, it is always intriguing to hear what they say about reincarnation and what happens after we are through it.

One question to those of you who think "merging" means dissolution of identity, or Self - how can one motivate him or herself when s/he is too young as souls to accept his/her destiny to have his/her identity dissolved in the end, especially if s/he is not inclined to religious beliefs which supports such ideas? Wouldn't one think that s/he would rather keep a long reincarnation period, going through easier lives with slow speed of learning so that dissolution of identity won't happen for the time being? How could one be motivated to even accelerate his or her learning speed by deliberately picking up hard lives?
 
amifriend said:
How could one be motivated to even accelerate his or her learning speed by deliberately picking up hard lives?
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In my second and third books I look at the life of Joan of Arc as an example which goes against the one-with-the-one dogma (an extension of the trinity dogma). This powerful, intelligent and honorable young woman should be easily recognized throughout history. The Greeks called her Athena and saw her as the fallen wife of Michael - The might of God. She had this character before she fell with Hades, and today she still has the same character - a noble warrior.

The only way that Michael is one with God is in Will, not in personality. The angels and archangels are at one with God in helping those of us who violated his will, to return to this oneness in Will. Why would any creator create such diversity and then destroy it again? There is no evidence this is true, and evidence everyday of the diversity of creation. Good luck on your journey.
 
Hi Amifriend,

I am wondering if any of you have an idea of what it would be like to be "merged" with the Creator (or the Source, or Divinity)
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For me, the closest explanation I have is merging with the LIGHT. A Golden Light. The body dissolves, the mind becomes silent, the heart expands,; Tingling and Peace, Joy - feelings that have no words to describe. Visions is 360 degrees and faster than the speed of light. It's the Light "God" created before the Sun and moon in the Bible. (Man's description of it and Him). This is just my experience, and my attempt to put into words - what have no words. It's more like a VIBRATION.
 
I find it interesting that people cannot imagine the other side. We know from many of the NDE, OBE and ghost stories that the other side looks just like this side. So much so that many ghosts hang around for centuries not realizing they are dead. They look the same and their surroundings look the same. The lower regions from the other side can be read in The Wanderer in Spirit Lands. There are reports of the higher regions that I have written about that just show greater diversity as we go higher, not less. This is where you run into gnomes, fairies, elves and the many variety of angels.
 
Moses received our spiritual family tree, along with the first set of laws humanity has known. No one seems to know anything about our spiritual history today, but the enlightened Greeks did. In my paper I explain what this "candle stick" really means. The point of this post is to ensure people that there was a beginning, but there is no end. We were all created as immortal spiritual beings, and we used our Free Will to fall from grace. We are on the long road back to our spiritual home. It may take many incarnations to get there, but once we return, we can regain all that we had lost and continue our immortal lives.

Menorah.jpg
 
I have mixed views on mergeance.
In one instance, I want very badly to share the experiences of all those who have lived and died before me.

I want to hold a sword, ready to face my enemy, to climb the highest mountain, to bury my king in his tomb and to sail the oceans on a ship discovering new worlds.

But at the same time, I want to close myself off entirely, and cling to my singular state of being. For fear of losing 'self' or being corrupted by feelings/experiences that aren't considered pure.

If indeed Hell existed, or the Universe disposed of evil so that we wouldn't have to face the threat of it in the afterlife, merging would be a safe and rewarding experience.

I'm humble enough to admit that I'm a selfish being. I want it all. I want to feel everything, but I want it to filter into me, not I into it. Sometimes that feeling scares me. I wouldn't like to be a black hole, swallowing up everything I love about the past.
 
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