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Are we wrong?

Well, the alternative to having all these symptoms of a past life is just being delusional or crazy. Frankly, I'd rather choose to believe in a past life, wouldn't you? Haha.


But seriously, it's something I always think about and always consider. I don't think it would be healthy if I didn't explore alternative options. Yeah, I can never know 100% and that bothers me! but I've come to peace with it more and more as time has gone on especially since I told myself that I needed solid evidence or proof and finally got the proof beyond reasonable doubt I was looking for. I will never know absolutely until I die though and until then I will just have to live with it. That is all I can do. If something came along and proved me absolutely wrong I would accept it and not find a way to keep believing. How could I?
 
My grandfather used to say that life is a dream, and the things that happen to us on the other side are real. I don't think it really matters if we have definitive proof, in the grand scheme of things. Our lives are a fleeting dream, or a wisp of smoke.


Twilight, I have no "proof". It's what I experienced. It happened 13 years ago, and it was so vivid, it's stayed with me. I think if someone else related that story, I would be skeptical. All I can say, is that I hope no one else has to visit that place. :) People argue that the things we experience in an NDE are hardwired by our beliefs. The things I "saw" and felt weren't like the childhood teachings about "hell" that I received in church. My expectation would have been to see lakes of brimstone, and demons with horns. There was nothing even remotely like that.


Skye, your question is an important one - both for me personally, and for anyone who might read my description. I have had long "desert" periods in my life. At that point, I was about to enter one, but I had no idea it was coming. It was a time that shook every belief I had about who I was. I suppose the experience could have been a cautionary tale from my "Guidance". They knew how bad things were going to get, and thought I might consider taking an early exit point, although that wasn't in my mind at the time. It was a happy period for me - the "calm before the storm". While I was "there", I saw no way out, and thought it was for eternity. That was what made it feel so hopeless. There would be a parallel between what I experienced, and what seriously depressed people feel - that things will never get better. I don't think I've shared my experience before, except with my husband, who wondered why I was pale, and shaking. It's a hard thing to drop into casual conversation, "Oh, by the way, I've been to Hell, and back." Perhaps I was intended to tell the story, as a deterrent to anyone seeking an easy way out of life's difficulties. Your guess would be as good as mine.
 
A similar experience


BriarRose,


Your description of your visit to "hell" has reminded me of my own, not dis-similar, experience many years ago.


It happened in my early 20s, and it has stayed with me ever since. Although my memory of the experience is not as clear now as once it was, there are images and feelings still burned indelibly into my conciousness. I remember "descending" into an environment of darkness and lassitude. Souls stood around, sensed rather than seen in the shifting shadows. Tall columns and high sided walls reached up into the raven blackness, but what structure or edifice they supported, I couldn't tell. I remember speaking with one or two of the wandering souls, but not the content of the conversations, which were carried out in strained whispers. I remember a feeling of being lost, of having strayed into an unfamiliar, emotionally cold realm, of being surrounded by mis-deeds and negative emotions. I remember wanting to get out, to "go home", and I have a dim recollection of being shown the way...


When I woke up, I was hugely relieved to be safe and sound in bed, needless to say. Later that day, I related the dream to my mother, who told me it sounded like I'd paid a visit to the "lower spheres." By this, she meant the lower spheres of the spirit realm ("my father's house has many mansions"), rather than Hell itself. But her stated implication was that, since I'd done so, I should be concerned - why had it been necessary?


I don't think I was in a particularly unhappy place at the time, and I haven't had a dream quite like it since. It wasn't quite as frightening as your own experience, but nonetheless I'd never want to go there again.


I offer the story up for what it's worth, without trying to draw any definite conclusions. But anyone else please feel free to comment.
 
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Deborah said:
:playing: Merry Christmas Arrant. Looking forward to your thoughts.
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Deborah,


The path of Osiris is a difficult one. To divorce oneself from all earthly wants and desires may be ultimately the only way to break the cycle of death and re-birth, but it is hardly surprising it takes countless lifetimes to do it! Nonetheless, I accept the wisdom contained in that quoted passage. Implementing it is the hard part...!
 
Aelfgyva said:
Goodmorning Arrant,
you write ..."But being human, and prone to doubts about my own beliefs and values, I do sometimes - not often - wonder if I am just deluded?"


Isn't this "being human" a part of doubting, questioning and seeking answers? I think if we did not doubt, we would as a human race not be where we are today. As for myself... yes , I doubt...and then believe...and then doubt again, a merry-go-round of facts and fictions...and I am a lucky person who has been able to find "facts" about my own pastlives...and still the doubt creeps in my mind! What keeps me going is faith, faith that there is a much bigger picture that I just can't see or comprehend as a human and faith that what I feel when thinking about my soul...(the joy that is almost indiscribable)...that this is real!
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Yes, that's how I see it generally. As you say, it's human to doubt...
 
Your experience does sound very similar, Arrant. It's possible that I was in a region even lower than you experienced, without being in "Hell" itself. The place where I was was formless, although I was aware of other souls. I think all souls have dark and light in them. I've wondered if some of us are more inclined toward the dark than others. Maybe those warning visits come when we are susceptible to being pulled more firmly onto the dark path. I tend to agree with Skye that there is a perpetual battle between dark and light, good and evil, and what happens in the individual soul is a microcosm of what happens in the world. It's not a rational belief, just something I believe instinctively. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I feel better knowing that I'm not the only one who's experienced this, and it takes courage to share a story like that. Also, I think that you fight for the "light".
 
I haven't been to this place, BriarRose, but there's something about your description that reminds me of the thing that grabbed me. This thing wasn't evil in the sense that we understand evil on earth, but it was something almost worse than evil - a sort of cold nothingness, lost and without any sort of purpose or meaning. Maybe our souls are more frightened of this than any type of evil that we understand because that is where any of us could end up - maybe this is the key to the unexplainable and why there is a constant war with good and evil, both with ourselves and in the world. Evil, terrible as it is to many of us, still exists with emotion, a purpose - but this place has nothing, it is just empty and dark. Maybe this cold nothingness is what lies at the end and may be one step up from evil itself - and why certain people are exposed to it. I'm sure a lot of things from this nothingness are always trying to pull people who are on the 'other side' into that place. I've always wondered why I'm attacked by these things and I feel it's something to do with that.
 
You ask, what if we're all wrong? When the fact is, nobody knows what is going on.


All we know is that adults and children have memories of places and times that they couldn't have had without actually being there. Names, dates, events, some so detailed that historical archives and goverment records confirm them. Plus to use a phrase you've probably heard more than once here, the strongest evidence is in the children. Children born knowing things that are impossible for them to know other than by being there and being those people.


Reincarnation is just the simplest and most logical theory, but as you've read on this board, there are others. We don't even have a clear idea of how this all works either. The Children's Cases section is filled with stories of children being born with these memories and knowledge but who also say, "Oh, I was supposed to be this, not this." "I was supposed to be born in this country or family but I'm here instead." Some on the board have said that this must be due to someone making a choice for their current life, but the fact is, nobody knows for sure. It could be random for all we know. No one knows for sure, we just have feelings and opinions.


So in answer to your question, yes we are all wrong. No one has a complete picture. Even if someone on this board is somehow 90% right by some miracle, they still don't know everything. You, me, anybody. But the great thing is, we all get to find out eventually. So I wouldn't worry about it too much.


Unless someone tells you that when you die that you can have all the cake that you want. You can totally believe that. ;)
 
Skye, you described what I experienced perfectly. I hope it isn't a form of soul "cold storage".


Anne, welcome to the forum. You are, of course, absolutely correct. No one really has the definitive answers to any of these questions. We have subjective experience, and opinions. I do hope you are right about the cake, though. :)
 
There's a part of me that doesn't think reincarnation is real and I haven't silenced it. I'm open to many different possibilities, including that reincarnation may not exist or that it may exist very differently from what we believe in. We're only human, we don't know. This doesn't mean I don't believe in them, I'm just not completely committed to that belief and try to keep an open mind.


The possibility doesn't distress me at all. So what if it turns out to be wrong? If it's wrong, then PL memories are probably our own minds' reflecting something about ourselves, and therefore, looking into them can be an interesting psychological self-knowledge tool.
 
There have been many interesting, thought provoking replies to my original question, "Are we wrong?"


The only certainty, it appears, is how uncertain we all are. We all have our own theories, ideas, and convictions, and I'm pretty sure we all share the same fundamental belief - otherwise we wouldn't be here on this forum. But, in the final analysis, for the majority of us, it is just that - a belief; not certain knowledge.


However, speaking for myself, it is a belief that has grown in strength with each passing year of my life, to the point where it has become an unshakeable conviction. Although I don't know, I sort of do know. It's as though something buried deep within me is trying to flag my concious being to the fact that I've hit upon a universal truth. I believe that's the way with all universal truths. When we discover them, we just somehow know! The material, science based earthly world may ridicule what, collectively, it doesn't understand, but truth remains truth in spite of that. But doubts still creep in from time to time. Last night, I was watching TV. The late Dave Allen, an Irish comedian of some repute in his day, was telling a joke that went like this:


A staunch atheist was having a discussion with the Pope on the existence of God. They argued for hours, the debate getting ever more heated, until eventually, in exasperation, the Pope said to the atheist, "You are not like me. You are like a blindfolded man, in a pitch black room, trying to find a black cat that doesn't exist!"


The atheist cleared his throat and replied, "With respect, I think you and I are very much alike. You too are like a blindfolded man, in a pitch black room, trying to find a black cat that doesn't exist. The only difference is, you've found it!"


Some minutes, in some days, I feel like that fictional Pope. But, more often, I feel like I've truly seen the light.
 
Very funny, Arrant, and very true. I don't know about other posters, but it strikes me that it would be morally wrong to state what we believe to be spiritual truths as fact. It would be a terrible blot on the soul to mislead someone else. Too much hubris is attached to "false prophets". On a lighter note, I dreamed last night that I was in Heaven, listening in on a conversation between Jesus and my "Guidance". It was like the conversations I have with my children, "Be sure to do this, this, and this." It was a nice contrast to the "hell" experience, but not as real.
 
Now Arrant, am like you it is like a unshakeable conviction which has become stronger thruout my life. And that it is something that I just do know. I like that what you said in your post between the atheist and the pope.


But also I am more and more of a hermit on verious things in my life, and I do not advertise my beliefs but more keep them to myself. I very much can see BriarRose's views on misleading someone. Now as for myself, I have had soooo many who have tried to tell me everything what to do and believe with what not to do and believe in this life that anymore I keep quiet on many a subject. Do believe anymore that this behavior in being soooo over domineering and over assertive over someone's elses life is one of the deep wrongs that someone can partake in during a life. But how much is this our society anymore with everyone trying to dictate how things are to everyone without letting that other person decide for themselves and live their own life. Just my perspective on things.


Wishing Everyone the Best!
 
When I turned 18 - I had no memories of my childhood or experiences with 'reincarnation.' My Mom said the first thing out of my mouth as a toddler was about 'reincarnation.' What I can recall of it now - is the question was 'why.' Why am I here again? (This question came about around the same time I was asking 'why is the sky blue?") As far as reincarnation being a 'spiritual fact of life - that has been proven to me time and time again - over and over again. I am in the minority of minds that is past belief due to direct knowledge over the years. Yet, half a century later - I don't feel I am any closer to the answer for the 'why' of it all. That all falls into conjecture, theory and metaphorical riddles for my own mental mind.


I can recall many a time when I was younger and brought the stories of my past lives up - or - trails I was following to lead me to a past life associate for the sake of a spiritual pledge I had been made aware of in visions. When people asked me why we reincarnate - I would shrug my shoulders and state, I was confused about that myself. :confused:


So, I don't think anyone is wrong chasing after a belief in reincarnation as a 'fact of spiritual life' - but when you chase after the 'why' of it - you could fall into the 'pit' of incorrect thinking when it comes to the 'why' of it all.


Sincerely,


DKing
 
Nothing about a belief in reincarnation to me seems wrong...likewise, we are not to know if we are right and I believe our efforts to obtain certain truth and verification is a crap shoot. The confirmations and certainties we encounter are subjective at best, despite the impact we receive in our psyche...we simply will not know for certain until the blinders are off after our transition. With that said, the information and confirmation of my reincarnation assumptions have been so life affirming and so incredibly positive that I have no choice but to believe every bit of what I have discovered. It is a choice and when my choice to believe is so highly rewarded, I really have no choice but to believe more and more.
 
I am not wrong. Since I was young


child I had the feeling I don't belong nor did


I want be here . Daydreaming of different places


all through middle school equals bad grades.:rolleyes:


A constant longing all my life for different time.


Seeing images of the past I could not understand.


Knowledge and age older than your years rings


true. Hanging around with people much older than me.


People my own age as kid really bored me.
 
shadowsofmypast said:
People my own age as kid really bored me.
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Same here. I always preferred listening to the adult conversations instead of out playing with the other kids. I also spent a lot of time reading.
 
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