I have oftened wondered when we die and we are not ready or havent got enough experience to "move on" we may decide to come back... but can we choose who we come back as? Why are so many born in Africa if we can choose.. surely nobody would choose that(no offence to africans I have great respect for them) but most children die in africa so why would we potentially waste a birth? I know that sounds cold but it isint meant that way
Do you choose your incarnations?
- Thread starter Jonjo
- Start date
I'm just hazarding a guess here but I'd say that perhaps the more difficult lessons can be learned from that kind of hardship. If a child dies very young, there may not be much that child has learned yet, but others around and associated with that child are probably absorbing all kinds of stuff. I don't think any birth is ever wasted.
Vicky
Vicky
Ailish
Administrator Emerita
Hi Jonjo,
I agree with Vicky -- I don't think any birth is "wasted." For whatever reason, those souls who are living difficult lives are doing so for a specific reason. It may be to learn a lesson -- or it may be to teach one to someone else.
I don't think we can fully comprehend all of the possibilities while we are incarnate. Some people believe we have our lives mapped out for us -- others believe we have some choice, but a general "plan" or "guideline" is set up by us when we are born.
I believe -- that nothing could be entirely mapped out -- because that would defeat the purpose of free-will and choice, thereby denying us the opportunity to make the decisions we need to -- to learn the lesson.
My personal belief – is that we don’t necessarily choose the circumstances to which we are born – but rather we create them by our thoughts and emotions at the time of death. I believe the way we act, and the thoughts we think -- in this life -- are directly responsible for the type of life that we will experience in the future.
Thoughts and emotions happen as a result of our interactions with the world based upon our perception of past experiences. It is how we perceive this world that forms our thought processes -- they become reactions and behaviors, unconsciously, or consciously. Our thoughts create our feelings, emotions, behavior, and what we attract and magnetize into our lives -- both now and in the future. What we reflect outward, we also draw back toward us.
Buddha said “Thy thought-forms reappear.”
Through Buddhist doctrine we are told that the final moment of our consciousness is paramount. Through our actions in this life we literally create the worlds in which we are to be born.
That's how I see it.
Ailish
I agree with Vicky -- I don't think any birth is "wasted." For whatever reason, those souls who are living difficult lives are doing so for a specific reason. It may be to learn a lesson -- or it may be to teach one to someone else.
I don't think we can fully comprehend all of the possibilities while we are incarnate. Some people believe we have our lives mapped out for us -- others believe we have some choice, but a general "plan" or "guideline" is set up by us when we are born.
I believe -- that nothing could be entirely mapped out -- because that would defeat the purpose of free-will and choice, thereby denying us the opportunity to make the decisions we need to -- to learn the lesson.
My personal belief – is that we don’t necessarily choose the circumstances to which we are born – but rather we create them by our thoughts and emotions at the time of death. I believe the way we act, and the thoughts we think -- in this life -- are directly responsible for the type of life that we will experience in the future.
Thoughts and emotions happen as a result of our interactions with the world based upon our perception of past experiences. It is how we perceive this world that forms our thought processes -- they become reactions and behaviors, unconsciously, or consciously. Our thoughts create our feelings, emotions, behavior, and what we attract and magnetize into our lives -- both now and in the future. What we reflect outward, we also draw back toward us.
Buddha said “Thy thought-forms reappear.”
Through Buddhist doctrine we are told that the final moment of our consciousness is paramount. Through our actions in this life we literally create the worlds in which we are to be born.
That's how I see it.
Ailish
Owl
Super-alt Mitglied
I think that once we die we see things in a different way. So, at the moment of coming back in the world we just focus on what we want to learn, we don´t really care if the circumstances we are going to live are difficult because, anyways that´s not our only life, we would learn what we have to and then reborn into a different body.Every life is an adventure...
Owl
Super-alt Mitglied
Jonjo said:
I don´t think we see them again exactly as they were when we lived with them. Maybe we see them in another life, but they will be also another people. Except that we reborn into our old family, that´s a possibility.
Your post made me think that maybe there are more factors that "what we want to learn", so I´ll rewrite what I said, because there are many souls who reborn with the people they loved. So it seems also that Affection to a person or a country is an important issue at the time of coming back to this world.
Anyways, I think emotions in some way distract us from what we have to learn (only if there is some free will otherwise everything is mapped) because maybe there are lessons we would have learn better if we chose to reborn somewhere with new people instead of keeping attached to our feelings and love for someone or something.
Ailish
Administrator Emerita
Hi Jonjo,
Imo – the body is only a shell, and matters very little in the whole scheme of things. It is not the “outside” of a person that we are drawn to – but an inner vibration that resonates between us. This vibration – is the basis for the strongest connections we have to others. The soul remembers – those we have loved, and who have loved us.
Ailish
Imo – the body is only a shell, and matters very little in the whole scheme of things. It is not the “outside” of a person that we are drawn to – but an inner vibration that resonates between us. This vibration – is the basis for the strongest connections we have to others. The soul remembers – those we have loved, and who have loved us.
Ailish
fiziwig
moderator emeritus
In one case history I recall (it may have been one of Dr. Stevenson's cases, but I'm not positive of that) a young child reported the following past-life and between life memories. He reported that he died near a river. After his death he stayed by the river in spirit form, and exploring up and down the river, came to a town. Still in spirit form he explored the town and found a young couple that he thought would make good parents so he hung around them for a long time until the wife became pregnant. He then took up residence in the unborn child and was, in due course, born to the couple he has choosen.
According to his account he never saw any other "spiritual realm", never encountered any "spirit guides" or advisors, and made the choice of his next incarnation entierly on his own. The whole experience from the end of one incarnation to the beginning of the next took place right here on Earth. There was no tunnel, no light, no angels, no meetings with departed loved ones, no life review. Nothing. Just hanging around on Earth looking for a new set of parents.
If we take this account seriously then there is no question that we can choose our next incarnation.
I suspect that we can basically do anything we want, including either visiting higher realms, or not visiting them, as we choose; getting help in deciding or going it on our own.
Unlike the physical realm where there is basically only one version of reality, the non-physical realms apparently bend to our desires and become whatever we want them to be. There is no unwavering single version of reality to be found there. I believe that there are no "rules" in the non-pysical realms. If you expect to sit on a cloud playing a harp for eternity you can probably do that. At least until you get bored with it and decide to expand your horizons. That's probably why there is so much disagreement about what lies on the "other side". What lies in that other realm is largely of our own making, so there can never be a single "correct" answer to questions about its nature. You will find that the true answer is whatever answer you are looking for, and that this "truth" is really only true for you.
According to his account he never saw any other "spiritual realm", never encountered any "spirit guides" or advisors, and made the choice of his next incarnation entierly on his own. The whole experience from the end of one incarnation to the beginning of the next took place right here on Earth. There was no tunnel, no light, no angels, no meetings with departed loved ones, no life review. Nothing. Just hanging around on Earth looking for a new set of parents.
If we take this account seriously then there is no question that we can choose our next incarnation.
I suspect that we can basically do anything we want, including either visiting higher realms, or not visiting them, as we choose; getting help in deciding or going it on our own.
Unlike the physical realm where there is basically only one version of reality, the non-physical realms apparently bend to our desires and become whatever we want them to be. There is no unwavering single version of reality to be found there. I believe that there are no "rules" in the non-pysical realms. If you expect to sit on a cloud playing a harp for eternity you can probably do that. At least until you get bored with it and decide to expand your horizons. That's probably why there is so much disagreement about what lies on the "other side". What lies in that other realm is largely of our own making, so there can never be a single "correct" answer to questions about its nature. You will find that the true answer is whatever answer you are looking for, and that this "truth" is really only true for you.
Ailish
Administrator Emerita
Hi a2k13,
Welcome to the forum. Yours is a good question -- and I'm not sure there is any one specific answer that fits everyone. You'll find many different views on the forum.
Some people believe we choose -- some believe it's karma that decides for us - and others believe our consciousness plays a factor in determining our next life.
I personally don't believe everything is pre-planned, but rather believe in the last theory I stated - due to my own experiences and beliefs.
You might enjoy the threads:
Questions about Pre-planning
Do we get to choose our parents?
Choice, Planning and Guided Sessions
Again - welcome and enjoy the discussions!
Ailish
Welcome to the forum. Yours is a good question -- and I'm not sure there is any one specific answer that fits everyone. You'll find many different views on the forum.
Some people believe we choose -- some believe it's karma that decides for us - and others believe our consciousness plays a factor in determining our next life.
I personally don't believe everything is pre-planned, but rather believe in the last theory I stated - due to my own experiences and beliefs.
You might enjoy the threads:
Questions about Pre-planning
Do we get to choose our parents?
Choice, Planning and Guided Sessions
Again - welcome and enjoy the discussions!
Ailish
Last edited by a moderator:
Karoliina
Moderator Emerita
Hello A2k13 and welcome! 
Like Aili told you, there are different theories and beliefs about pre-planning. I believe we do plan and get to choose to some extent, but our desires is not the only factor in deciding. Besides I believe we can change our plans while incarnated, not to mention we are constantly influenced by other people's actions - so nothing is written in stone and everything can be changed.
I hope you enjoy this forum and will continue posting your questions and thoughts. :thumbsup:
Karoliina
Like Aili told you, there are different theories and beliefs about pre-planning. I believe we do plan and get to choose to some extent, but our desires is not the only factor in deciding. Besides I believe we can change our plans while incarnated, not to mention we are constantly influenced by other people's actions - so nothing is written in stone and everything can be changed.
I hope you enjoy this forum and will continue posting your questions and thoughts. :thumbsup:
Karoliina
Etheleona
Green Almond Eyes
I personally believe that we can choose our past, present and future lives. I think of time as nonlinear, and reality as a matrix that is constantly changing.
Some of our choices are conscious, however, and others unconscious, semi-conscious or by "default". For example, you can go to a store with a clear idea of what to buy, carrying a list and crossing the items off one by one. Or, you can go and wander around tossing things into your cart randomly, as the whim moves you. I think it's possible to do the equivalent of "impulse buying" on a spiritual level.
I'm curious, a2k13, is there something you want to choose for your next lifetime?
Some of our choices are conscious, however, and others unconscious, semi-conscious or by "default". For example, you can go to a store with a clear idea of what to buy, carrying a list and crossing the items off one by one. Or, you can go and wander around tossing things into your cart randomly, as the whim moves you. I think it's possible to do the equivalent of "impulse buying" on a spiritual level.
I'm curious, a2k13, is there something you want to choose for your next lifetime?
enyeo
New Member
If we can choose, then I am writing out my new me list now! :thumbsup:
I have to say though, that if it were just a matter of choosing each life, why would souls choose some lives that are terrible? If we have complete choice, why would we want to come into this world as either a victim or a criminal?
enyeo
I have to say though, that if it were just a matter of choosing each life, why would souls choose some lives that are terrible? If we have complete choice, why would we want to come into this world as either a victim or a criminal?
enyeo
Karoliina
Moderator Emerita
Enyeo,
I don't believe in complete choice, but I think we are here to grow and learn lessons, which means every life can't be a picnic. I think what we see as misery is seen very differently on the other plane of existence, where we are in between incarnations.
Karoliina
I don't believe in complete choice, but I think we are here to grow and learn lessons, which means every life can't be a picnic.
I think what we see as misery is seen very differently on the other plane of existence, where we are in between incarnations.Karoliina
Sunny1994
SUNNY1994
Lately my Life has been very stressful! :butbut: And, as I was reading this post I was wondering why in the World I would of chosen this paticular Life. Then, I started thinking of the positive things in it. I can see where if it was possible to choose my next, I would want some of the same things I have in this one. I am lucky to be very much in Love w/ my Husband
. And, we have been blessed to have 4 beautiful kid's. I have been able to stay-at-home and raise them. And, My Husband has def. got to be one of my biggest Heros. I look around me and see so many sad PPL and sad situations. I guess seeing a post like this has a way of making you acknowledge the positves you have going for you! And, if things aren't going the way you want them too, they could always be worse! :laugh:
But, back to my point, maybe this has been one of my "easy" life's. Maybe the last few were so traumatic, this was my chance to be able to rest for awhile, and enjoy my time w/ loved ones.
I can see where if it was possible to choose my next, I would want some of the same things I have in this one. I am lucky to be very much in Love w/ my Husband . And, we have been blessed to have 4 beautiful kid's. I have been able to stay-at-home and raise them. And, My Husband has def. got to be one of my biggest Heros. I look around me and see so many sad PPL and sad situations. I guess seeing a post like this has a way of making you acknowledge the positves you have going for you! And, if things aren't going the way you want them too, they could always be worse! :laugh:But, back to my point, maybe this has been one of my "easy" life's. Maybe the last few were so traumatic, this was my chance to be able to rest for awhile, and enjoy my time w/ loved ones.
Beachboy
A Rock In A Landslide
Hi Sunny!
I wonder the same thing quite a bit. I wonder why I chose this life, with all the stress it has been causing me.
For example, ever since I was a child I've had anxiety which is almost crippling at times. More so now than ever. Right now, it's so bad that it's affecting me at work. I guess a sales-related job probably isn't the best place for someone with bad anxiety. But, in the past I've been afraid to see anyone about it because I don't want to be prescribed a pill to handle it. I want to find a way of dealing with it naturally. However, I think the time has come where I need to do so.
Then I think of all the wonderful people in my life, who've been there and supported me no matter how bad things got for me. My family is amazing, and so are the friends I've made. There are certain friends I have in my life now that I know I must have known in a past life, because of how close we are.
I'm a good person, and I chose this life for a reason. I think my purpose in life is to overcome this great obstacle and set out to find the tru meaning in my life.
I wonder the same thing quite a bit. I wonder why I chose this life, with all the stress it has been causing me.
For example, ever since I was a child I've had anxiety which is almost crippling at times. More so now than ever. Right now, it's so bad that it's affecting me at work. I guess a sales-related job probably isn't the best place for someone with bad anxiety. But, in the past I've been afraid to see anyone about it because I don't want to be prescribed a pill to handle it. I want to find a way of dealing with it naturally. However, I think the time has come where I need to do so.
Then I think of all the wonderful people in my life, who've been there and supported me no matter how bad things got for me. My family is amazing, and so are the friends I've made. There are certain friends I have in my life now that I know I must have known in a past life, because of how close we are.
I'm a good person, and I chose this life for a reason. I think my purpose in life is to overcome this great obstacle and set out to find the tru meaning in my life.
Charles Stuart
Senior Registered
Hi a2k13,
This seems to depend on each soul/spirit's level of consciousness and awareness. Those who have achieved a certain level have more choice. For others, each life seems to be chosen for them...
Charles Stuart
Senior Registered
Hi a2k13,
This topic is discussed in this thread:
Am I a New Soul? (Thread has been lost)
Hope you enjoy it and that it might give you some answers or at least some ideas. :thumbsup:
This topic is discussed in this thread:
Am I a New Soul? (Thread has been lost)
Hope you enjoy it and that it might give you some answers or at least some ideas. :thumbsup:
Last edited by a moderator:
Amy
Senior Registered
I do believe that each of us have a choice in who we want to be in our next life but I also believe that our choice is guided by our level of spiritual awareness & by our spirit guides. I believe that we will review the life that we have lived after we pass to see where we have failed to learn & to see any advancements. It is then that we decide what to do next. What lessons do we have yet to learn, how best to learn them, etc.
Many souls choose lives of suffering and pain to learn humility, selflessness, etc. So what we view as people who are living terrible lives may very well be a soul who has chosen that particular life to live in order to learn from it in some way.
I feel that each soul must learn certain lessons in order to advance spiritually. The purpose of reincarnating is to have the opportunity to continue learning lessons that we need to reach heaven, nirvana, etc.
Believe it or not, some souls who have finally reached the point of not having to reincarnate actually choose to come back to help others learn and progress. :thumbsup:
Many souls choose lives of suffering and pain to learn humility, selflessness, etc. So what we view as people who are living terrible lives may very well be a soul who has chosen that particular life to live in order to learn from it in some way.
I feel that each soul must learn certain lessons in order to advance spiritually. The purpose of reincarnating is to have the opportunity to continue learning lessons that we need to reach heaven, nirvana, etc.
Believe it or not, some souls who have finally reached the point of not having to reincarnate actually choose to come back to help others learn and progress. :thumbsup:
Etheleona
Green Almond Eyes
enyeo wrote:
The way I understand this, we have many levels of Will. The Will is not simple and single, but deep, complex and multi-layered. A person is many wills, sometimes conflicting and sometimes working together.
On an everyday level, for example, it's a common experience for someone to say, "Oops, I wish I hadn't done that, but something just made me." The "something" inside you is a split-off part of your own Will.
With regard to the really "bad" things in life, the best analogy I've come up with is having a nightmare. Suppose you have a dream about a monster. You don't consciously want to see that monster, otherwise you wouldn't be calling it a "nightmare". But, the monster is coming from your own mind. Nobody else is putting it into your head. Your mind can create something very frightening and unpleasant, and which you consciously don't want. It seems to be taking place against your will -- but whose Will is it?
Some techniques, like Jungian and Gestalt dream therapy, teach you to re-own, to take back these split-off parts of yourself. You step inside the monster, take on its identity, and bring it back into you. Then it is no longer something to be feared.
Now, I think that we create events in our "external" lives the same way we do those in dreams. The more serious or severe an event is, the deeper level from which it comes, and the more split-off it is from our everyday selves. I think that solving these problems involves the task of re-integrating, re-claiming the aspects of our Will that we now see as separate.
This is one of the deep questions of reincarnation, as well as of Life. People have given many answers to it (as you can see here).
The way I understand this, we have many levels of Will. The Will is not simple and single, but deep, complex and multi-layered. A person is many wills, sometimes conflicting and sometimes working together.
On an everyday level, for example, it's a common experience for someone to say, "Oops, I wish I hadn't done that, but something just made me." The "something" inside you is a split-off part of your own Will.
With regard to the really "bad" things in life, the best analogy I've come up with is having a nightmare. Suppose you have a dream about a monster. You don't consciously want to see that monster, otherwise you wouldn't be calling it a "nightmare". But, the monster is coming from your own mind. Nobody else is putting it into your head. Your mind can create something very frightening and unpleasant, and which you consciously don't want. It seems to be taking place against your will -- but whose Will is it?
Some techniques, like Jungian and Gestalt dream therapy, teach you to re-own, to take back these split-off parts of yourself. You step inside the monster, take on its identity, and bring it back into you. Then it is no longer something to be feared.
Now, I think that we create events in our "external" lives the same way we do those in dreams. The more serious or severe an event is, the deeper level from which it comes, and the more split-off it is from our everyday selves. I think that solving these problems involves the task of re-integrating, re-claiming the aspects of our Will that we now see as separate.
tanguerra
Moderator Emeritus
Yes, Ethelonea, (hi and welcome) I agree with you to an extent. At 'one level' we are all creating our own realities, it is all an 'illusion' and we call to us the experiences which we first create with our thoughts. You are quite right about that. I also believe reality operates on a many different levels and that solid, 3D, causal reality is also exactly what it appears to be at its own 'level'.
Enyeo, although as stated, some people plan it all out carefully and others just stumble about completely cluelessly (until they figure out there is a better way of doing things) I believe there is a role played even in the most meticulously thought out plans by accident, bad luck or 'chaos' in this level of reality which we fondly call 'life' - the "s**t happens" factor. It keeps things mixing around, keeps things unpredictable and probably amuses God (however you conceive her) no end sometimes. I think She has a wicked sense of humour, personally.
All that said, why would people choose and unfortunate or difficult life if they had any say in it at all?
Some souls may have an important lesson to learn. The work of the soul (according to most theories) is to learn the important lessons which ultimately lead to perfect, boundless, unconditional, joyful, universal love (aka enlightenment). These lessons might entail mastering humility, compassion, pity, gentleness, generosity and so on. Life is full of difficulties; hunger, cold, fear, pain, blood, sweat, etc etc. That's what makes it such an excellent proving ground for the soul. It is all very well sitting up on a cloud in 'heaven' and being all blissful and nirvana, but it is quite another matter to do it 'down here' in the midst of the muck and the strife.
So for example, some entity might think they need to learn humility or compassion. After having spent a life as a greedy king or a powerful general who may have misused their power and position for selfish or egotistical gains, they may come back as a beggar woman who must clean other people's latrines. It would not be obvious to the casual observer that this woman was involved in the most important work in the world but her 'higher self' would understand the lesson.
After a life of fame, beauty and luxury which led to selfishness, shallowness, drug abuse and ultimately suicide, a person may choose to be poorer, plainer and more obscure in the next life in order to learn the value of building solid relationships based on generosity and kindness rather than vanity and admiration. The permutations are endless.
Enyeo, although as stated, some people plan it all out carefully and others just stumble about completely cluelessly (until they figure out there is a better way of doing things) I believe there is a role played even in the most meticulously thought out plans by accident, bad luck or 'chaos' in this level of reality which we fondly call 'life' - the "s**t happens" factor. It keeps things mixing around, keeps things unpredictable and probably amuses God (however you conceive her) no end sometimes. I think She has a wicked sense of humour, personally.
All that said, why would people choose and unfortunate or difficult life if they had any say in it at all?
Some souls may have an important lesson to learn. The work of the soul (according to most theories) is to learn the important lessons which ultimately lead to perfect, boundless, unconditional, joyful, universal love (aka enlightenment). These lessons might entail mastering humility, compassion, pity, gentleness, generosity and so on. Life is full of difficulties; hunger, cold, fear, pain, blood, sweat, etc etc. That's what makes it such an excellent proving ground for the soul. It is all very well sitting up on a cloud in 'heaven' and being all blissful and nirvana, but it is quite another matter to do it 'down here' in the midst of the muck and the strife.
So for example, some entity might think they need to learn humility or compassion. After having spent a life as a greedy king or a powerful general who may have misused their power and position for selfish or egotistical gains, they may come back as a beggar woman who must clean other people's latrines. It would not be obvious to the casual observer that this woman was involved in the most important work in the world but her 'higher self' would understand the lesson.
After a life of fame, beauty and luxury which led to selfishness, shallowness, drug abuse and ultimately suicide, a person may choose to be poorer, plainer and more obscure in the next life in order to learn the value of building solid relationships based on generosity and kindness rather than vanity and admiration. The permutations are endless.
enyeo
New Member
When I brought up the question earlier, it was more or less rhetorical. I think that what we do in life is not geared toward an ultimate goal of enlightment. It seems like somehow we have come from a place of pure whatever we want to call it, and what we learn here seems like it may be really small stuff compared to the reality that is out there, just as we are small parts of the universe.
But it isn't small if we are here to experience whatever we are going to experience, and no matter what we do, it all goes into working the engine. By that I mean, anytime we take an action it's going to have its opposition, that's the basic building block of generating energy, by the workings of opposing forces. No matter what we do we generate the energy that runs this planet, if not the whole universe.
If that's true, maybe the whole process is not a matter of being bad vs good and good ultimately being declared the winner, but order vs chaos and the vs part may be the most important part of the equation. All the basic laws of science tell us this. Balance. If we go too far in either direction, order or chaos, the engine gets out of whack.
Maybe I am tilting this discussion off whack, too, but to bring it back, rhetorical question put away, I think we are always both choosing and not choosing in every situation of our lives, and that's the way we are supposed to do things. Not one or another.
Or the other hand, it may be the one beer I just had on an empty stomach doing the talking. : angel I think I'm going to bed.
enyeo
But it isn't small if we are here to experience whatever we are going to experience, and no matter what we do, it all goes into working the engine. By that I mean, anytime we take an action it's going to have its opposition, that's the basic building block of generating energy, by the workings of opposing forces. No matter what we do we generate the energy that runs this planet, if not the whole universe.
If that's true, maybe the whole process is not a matter of being bad vs good and good ultimately being declared the winner, but order vs chaos and the vs part may be the most important part of the equation. All the basic laws of science tell us this. Balance. If we go too far in either direction, order or chaos, the engine gets out of whack.
Maybe I am tilting this discussion off whack, too, but to bring it back, rhetorical question put away, I think we are always both choosing and not choosing in every situation of our lives, and that's the way we are supposed to do things. Not one or another.
Or the other hand, it may be the one beer I just had on an empty stomach doing the talking. : angel I think I'm going to bed.
enyeo
Etheleona
Green Almond Eyes
tanguerra wrote:
tanguerra wrote:
Also, I think there are other reasons for choosing "hard lives".
A soul might choose to undergo hardship in order to develop strength, endurance, will, intelligence or quick wits. Undergoing a difficult challenge can also enhance life in the long term. Looking back, past dramas can be seen as interesting "stories" which make life deeper and richer. The unpleasant experience is temporary, but the story lasts forever.
Also, I think souls sometimes choose certain experiences simply to be together with others, to share the struggles of their friends and loved ones, or emulate someone whom they admire.
enyeo wrote:
enyeo, there's a past thread on the subject of "Good" and "Bad" you may find interesting.
I think of 3D reality as being "real" in the same way that a story or dream is "real": that is, real to the perceiver, as a subjective experience within her or his consciousness. Our mundane reality is "real" to us because we perceive/construct it.
tanguerra wrote:
I agree that so-called "humble" people are often doing the most important work in the world. The souls who have chosen the most difficult lives -- slaves, laborers, exiles, prisoners -- are the ones I most admire. If honor were awarded by merit, the statues and monuments would be built for these people, not for generals and kings.
Also, I think there are other reasons for choosing "hard lives".
A soul might choose to undergo hardship in order to develop strength, endurance, will, intelligence or quick wits. Undergoing a difficult challenge can also enhance life in the long term. Looking back, past dramas can be seen as interesting "stories" which make life deeper and richer. The unpleasant experience is temporary, but the story lasts forever.
Also, I think souls sometimes choose certain experiences simply to be together with others, to share the struggles of their friends and loved ones, or emulate someone whom they admire.
enyeo wrote:
I, too, see reality as driven by the dynamics of opposing forces. I think of the cosmic evolutionary process as heading in the direction of greater complexity, with "good" and "bad" relative terms invented by human beings. Chaos, or randomness, is an essential part of this process, although I regard chaos not as separate from Will, but as a welter of competing Wills going many directions at once. Thus, randomness is part of our free will, and vice versa. Because reality is indeterminate at the quantum level, we are able to make choices.
enyeo, there's a past thread on the subject of "Good" and "Bad" you may find interesting.
enyeo
New Member
I don't think we're heading toward the complexity, I think we've always been there.
Looking at enantiodromia thread, I started laughing because a picture came into my mind. Have you ever noticed in conversations that as soon as a lot of people start talking about something else as being bad, this look of evil pops up on the face of someone taking the side of "good?" We don't escape our own complexities. We can think we have but something in us immediately starts pulling back in the opposite direction even when we're not aware of it.
I think that's why I became such a huge fan of the recent HBO series, "Rome." There was a scene toward the end where someone asked Vorenus, a Roman soldier, if his friend Titus Pullo was a good man. He said, "define good." Titus could pick peaches for his wife one moment and kill a man in the next. He was an everyman character, more than any other character I have seen in a long time. I got it. He was both order and chaos. He knew it. He accepted it.
I think acceptance of our own opposites is the true nirvana. If we make our choices for our lives based on that, maybe we will be ready for anything and get more out of our growth.
I'm flashing on one of my few clear past life memories as I write that. As a Scot, after a fight, I would squat to get my energy back. Not sit or lie down. That way I could get my balance, get my breath, but still build my leg muscles up for the next round. Those who work the opposites the best survive. Those who fight against the opposites have a steep uphill climb.
enyeo
Looking at enantiodromia thread, I started laughing because a picture came into my mind. Have you ever noticed in conversations that as soon as a lot of people start talking about something else as being bad, this look of evil pops up on the face of someone taking the side of "good?" We don't escape our own complexities. We can think we have but something in us immediately starts pulling back in the opposite direction even when we're not aware of it.
I think that's why I became such a huge fan of the recent HBO series, "Rome." There was a scene toward the end where someone asked Vorenus, a Roman soldier, if his friend Titus Pullo was a good man. He said, "define good." Titus could pick peaches for his wife one moment and kill a man in the next. He was an everyman character, more than any other character I have seen in a long time. I got it. He was both order and chaos. He knew it. He accepted it.
I think acceptance of our own opposites is the true nirvana. If we make our choices for our lives based on that, maybe we will be ready for anything and get more out of our growth.
I'm flashing on one of my few clear past life memories as I write that. As a Scot, after a fight, I would squat to get my energy back. Not sit or lie down. That way I could get my balance, get my breath, but still build my leg muscles up for the next round. Those who work the opposites the best survive. Those who fight against the opposites have a steep uphill climb.
enyeo
Charles Stuart
Senior Registered
Can We Choose?
Hi,
Some great ponderations here...:thumbsup: They reminded me of this passage of the Bhagavad Gita:
From my own experience with spirituality, I have found that there are indeed external forces at work as well as our own, and that these are defined by "Universal Laws" which are enforced by whole phalanxes of spiritual guides and masters, in a collective effort for the evolution and improvement of mankind. For the evolution and improvement of our ways of being, thinking and acting.
Yes, I agree that "balance" is the key. In fact, it seems that the reason why access to the "Higher Realms" is restricted is because, if it weren't, those who still retain unbalanced thoughts could quite easily cause/create unbalance in the vibrations of such realms, just as unbalanced thoughts and actions create/cause the "reality" we live in here on Earth, with all the consequential suffering.
Learning to deal with such suffering with humbleness and acceptance, knowing that ALL things will pass, is, I believe, a fundamental aspect of one of the MANY lessons we are here to learn each time we incarnate... :thumbsup: : angel
Hi,
Some great ponderations here...:thumbsup: They reminded me of this passage of the Bhagavad Gita:
I have often found, while debating here, a certain difficulty by many (if not most) participating members to fit the concept of a "Greater Force" that governs our lives into the equation. I have often read things like "we create our realities" or "our consciousness creates our realities".
From my own experience with spirituality, I have found that there are indeed external forces at work as well as our own, and that these are defined by "Universal Laws" which are enforced by whole phalanxes of spiritual guides and masters, in a collective effort for the evolution and improvement of mankind. For the evolution and improvement of our ways of being, thinking and acting.
Yes, I agree that "balance" is the key. In fact, it seems that the reason why access to the "Higher Realms" is restricted is because, if it weren't, those who still retain unbalanced thoughts could quite easily cause/create unbalance in the vibrations of such realms, just as unbalanced thoughts and actions create/cause the "reality" we live in here on Earth, with all the consequential suffering.
Learning to deal with such suffering with humbleness and acceptance, knowing that ALL things will pass, is, I believe, a fundamental aspect of one of the MANY lessons we are here to learn each time we incarnate... :thumbsup: : angel
Hi Jonjo,
I agree with Vicky -- I don't think any birth is "wasted." For whatever reason, those souls who are living difficult lives are doing so for a specific reason. It may be to learn a lesson -- or it may be to teach one to someone else.
I don't think we can fully comprehend all of the possibilities while we are incarnate. Some people believe we have our lives mapped out for us -- others believe we have some choice, but a general "plan" or "guideline" is set up by us when we are born.
I believe -- that nothing could be entirely mapped out -- because that would defeat the purpose of free-will and choice, thereby denying us the opportunity to make the decisions we need to -- to learn the lesson.
My personal belief – is that we don’t necessarily choose the circumstances to which we are born – but rather we create them by our thoughts and emotions at the time of death. I believe the way we act, and the thoughts we think -- in this life -- are directly responsible for the type of life that we will experience in the future.
Thoughts and emotions happen as a result of our interactions with the world based upon our perception of past experiences. It is how we perceive this world that forms our thought processes -- they become reactions and behaviors, unconsciously, or consciously. Our thoughts create our feelings, emotions, behavior, and what we attract and magnetize into our lives -- both now and in the future. What we reflect outward, we also draw back toward us.
Buddha said “Thy thought-forms reappear.”
Through Buddhist doctrine we are told that the final moment of our consciousness is paramount. Through our actions in this life we literally create the worlds in which we are to be born.
That's how I see it.
Ailish
Interesting line of thought which leads me to several questions:
I'm a preemie (I was born six weeks too early) which resulted in a weak eyesight, hard of hearing and weak finger and mouth muscles which meant, among other things, that I couldn't be breastfed. In addition to that, my mom would not allow me to use baby bottles or pacifiers as a child so I developed a weakness for those things. Also, it influenced my views on child raising.
So if i had to endure these hardships, what were the thougts of my past life that let to the circumstances of this life?
And because of my experiences, I want to be born to parents with a more progressive view on childraising like extended breastfeeding and selfweaning, co-sleeping and unschooling. Will these thoughts and desires lead to such a life in my next incarnation?