• Thank you to Carol and Steve Bowman, the forum owners, for our new upgrade!

Free will and destiny

fiziwig

fiziwig

moderator emeritus
Branching an off-topic line of thought out from the topic on what books everyone is reading...

Suppose that we have free will during that time between lives when we are crafting our life script for our next incarnation, and that once we enter an incarnation we do so to play out the choices we already made and experience their consequences.

That way, forseeing the future simply means we've peeked ahead in the script which has already been written. It's rather like watching a movie and wondering what the main character will decide to do next. In fact, the character has already completed all those actions which, though still in our "future" as we watch the movie, exist in the timeless present on the film.

So if someone whispers in our ear "Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father" it doesn't mean that he's seen the future, only that the revelation which still lies in our future already lies in his past, but in reality exists in the timeless present on the spool of film.

If that were the case then we get to have complete freedom of choice, but only while we are between incarnations. Once the script is written we come to earth to play it out and experience it first hand, but free will on the physical plane is just an illusion.

Just a random thought. (You are free to disagree. Maybe. ;-)
 
I completly agree with the first thing said.

I think that we all have a plan when we get a body.

Some of the means to attain that plan are open to interpretation, time and circumstances, but as long as the goal is reached, then it's good.

Peeking at the future is just like looking at the outline.

Most things aren't written in stone.

--Amy


Universal Life Church
 
Hi Fiziwig,

Well - for me everything is in the NOW -reality is a hologram and I am the creator of my reality 24-7.

Foreseeing the future is only getting a glimpse of the possibilities and or probabilities. Nothing is fixed. Everything affects and effects everything else.

With that said - I have come to believe that most people -inbetween lives are drawn to their next life due to what they hold within their consciousness. Ian Stevenson called this - the passive process. ;)
 
My own peculiar belief...

My own peculiar belief is that coming into incarnation is like walking into a movie theater. Free will is an illusion. We are here to have a pre-scripted experience. Just for the adventure of it. We have nothing to learn because we are already perfect beings. We have no need for "spiritual growth" because we already everything we can be.

But being what we are we crave adventure and interesting experiences for the same reason people crave exciting or interesting movies or novels. So we temporarily forget who we really are, pick a "movie" we would like to experience, and dive in to "be" a human for a while.

Sure, we can get involved in spiritual quests, or intellectual quests, or quests for wealth or power, but these are just games we play for their entertainment value. We don't really "need" any of those things. We are already complete and perfect.

One consequence of that is that if we want to in our next incarnation we could replay the "Cleopatra" experience and be Cleopatra, experienceing first hand all the so-called "free will" choices she made and what their consequences were. Or for those who are in to horror movies we could see what it would be like to "be" some horrible or evil character, by living the playback of that experience.

It doesn't really matter. It's all an illusion anyway.

I know that's not a popular belief because most people like to think there's some higher purpose to our being here, and some higher goal we should strive for. But what if all this physical incarnation stuff is just show business after all? What if we are just here to experience the ride, for no higher purpose than climbing into a roller coaster at the amusement park?

Of course if that's the case nobody really wants to be reminded of it. After all, we did come here to forget who we really are.
 
Yep I've enjoyed going through severe depression, I've enjoyed my personal problems, I've enjoyed freinds and people I've known dying horribly, I've enjoyed watching others suffer, I've enjoyed knowing that one of the best people I will ever know has suffered all that she has, I've enjoyed knowing about and having family members affected directly by war, I enjoy the fact that litle children suffer at the mercy of hunger, poverty, mistreatment etc,etc, I enjoy the fact that people fall in love and have their hearts smashed by fate......shall I go on? or should I shoot the film maker?
Hammy.
 
I'm of the opinion that we all pre-plan our next incarnation for the maximum learning experience. Although, I feel, we only pre-plan the major events in out lives, with the option of changing them if we desired.

Now, the skill in living that life is being able to tune into the subconscious, intuition, or what ever words you want to use and follow the pre-plan for maximum learning. However, at any time we can change the plans for an alternative learning experience. If we change it too much, we may have to come back again to experience that event.

We have total free will, and therefore total responsibility for our lives, and with our free will we can do some pre-planning before we arrive, knowing it can always be changed again.
Majic
 
Originally posted by Deborah
Well - for me everything is in the NOW -reality is a hologram and I am the creator of my reality 24-7.

...................

With that said - I have come to believe that most people -inbetween lives are drawn to their next life due to what they hold within their consciousness. Ian Stevenson called this - the passive process. ;)
Click to expand...
I see incongruence, if not outright contradiction, in the position that one is a creator of reality in a 'passive process'. Creation, by definition, is an active process. I think that this apparent contradiction can be removed, but till that is done, contradiction remains.
 
Fundamental weakness

Free will is an illusion. We are here to have a pre-scripted experience. Just for the adventure of it.
Click to expand...
In this peculiar scheme, free will is an illusion only if someone else wrote the script for our experiences. It is again contradictory to say that we wrote the script and and at the same time say that free will is an illusion.

Hammy's post makes it clear that there are those who are not enjoying the movie they are watching/participating in, but have no way to walk out of the threater. Self-creators have simply failed to answer Hammy's questions in this and a few other threads recently. When we ignore fundamental questions, all we do is expose the weakness of our position.
 
Thank you Kris, I was beginning to feel all alone, but you've hit the nail smack on the head :)
Thank you,
Hammy.
 
Kris comments, Hammy's post makes it clear that there are those who are not enjoying the movie they are watching/participating in, but have no way to walk out of the threater. Self-creators have simply failed to answer Hammy's questions in this and a few other threads recently. When we ignore fundamental questions, all we do is expose the weakness of our position."

Why do you have to enjoy the movie (life experience) to stay. Wanting to walk out of the theater is the same as giving up. We are here, I believe, to learn particular lessons. If we fail to learn from these lessons we have designed for ourselves, then we will need to choose another time, or another way, to learn these lessons.

We create our experiences to gain knowledge. Adversity seems to be one of the faster ways we can learn our lessons. What is one life of adversity compared to an infinite number of possible lives?

We have free will. We are totally responsible. There is no one forcing things upon us. We create our reality. It is the only fair way.
Majic
 
Self creators,
If we are creators and know everything what the hell is the point in 'learning'? we wouldn't need to. My goodness there must be a huge majority of masochists out there who enjoy suffering for the sake of it. Extrapolate your arguments, explain how our 'films' co-exist, explain how we manage to join the millions of puzzles together in order to make our 'plans' work. But for pities sake answer clearly at least one of my questions raised here and in other threads. You see I am not a creator, a sub-creator maybe, but not a creator, so maybe as you have all the answers you can enlighten me.
Hammy.
 
Can we edit this movie, please?

You're welcome, Hammy. I think you've raised valid questions in this and a few other threads recently and they all deserve to be answered, not shoved aside or ignored.

Majic, you seemed to have latched on to the idea of reincarnation being like a walk into movie theater as proposed by fiziwig without reading his basic premise which is that free will is an illusion. You, on the other hand, claim to have total free will, which doesn't make any sense, since the audience of a movie cannot determine the course of a movie they are watching.

Another point of difference - fiziwig talks of pre-scripted experience with no need for spiritual growth and you are talking about watching a movie to learn particular lessons.

While I do not completely agree with fiziwig's idea of life as a prescripted movie, I find his presentation quite consistent internally. I think any idea should be presented with internal consistency to be taken seriously. Since your ideas collide directly with fiziwig's ideas, in two important respects as I have shown above, may I suggest you take another stab at presenting your idea of life as a movie?
 
I finally have time to try and answer your concerns. Kris & Hammy. I not sure how you got the idea that I feel reincarnation is like walking into a movie theater and watching life unfold. If you want to use a movie for an analogy then my opinion would be that we are the Director, the Producer, Set Designer, Actor, and all of the other contributors to a movie.

I claim that we pre-plan the major events in our next life. That means we select the parents we want to be be born with for maximum learning potentials. We choose the setting, the environment, we want to experience in for maximum learning. We choose the supporting actors, the personalities that can help us in our learning.

When I say that I choose and pre-plan my next life, it depends on my state of evolvement whether I need help from other Souls in my group - guardian angels, spirit helpers. With or without help I determine the best possible set of circumstances for my next incarnation for maximum learning.

Now, it is not a manner of being born and let it all take place. No. I need to be aware, listen to my inner voice, my intuition, watch for synchronistic events in my life and act upon them to fulfill what I planned to learn. I can change the plans at any time because I have free-will to do it. However, for maximum learning I should attempt to follow my initial plan as much as I can. I may succeed in the challenges I designed for myself or I may fail at my attempts. I then will choose a different course of action (with my free-will) and try again.

Hammy, I'm only suggesting that I'm a co-creator to the extent that I choose the direction in my life. There is no supreme God, out there, forcing things upon me. I create my own reality, my own learning experiences. I'm responsible.

I'm not creating the sun or the planets or anyone else. I create my direction in life. I may choose to be born with physical or mental handicaps to learn particular lessons, or I may choose to be born handsome and rich, to learn other lessons.

Or I might have chosen the rich route and failed in my endeavors, for example I let greed override me. If I can figure out how to balance that greed then I may become successful again. I have to make the decisions (free-will).

You ask how do I make the pieces of the puzzle work? Much of the puzzle is set in place with the pre-planning. I make agreements with other individuals, some of whom I have been involved with in previous lives, and some new ones, to provide the challenges that we both need to learn. It is a mutual agreement. We are all here to learn and to help each other to learn. Their is really no competition, we are all a part of the same Energy Force and we need to all learn together.

During our sojourn on Earth we make decisions with each other everyday towards mutual learnings.

Hammy, I don't have all the answers. I try to keep an open mind, void of the conditioning of society (religion) and see the wisdom in reincarnation. I feel that life should be fair for all, and if it can't be - if there is a god, or something, out there, forcing things upon us, or granting wishes to one person and not the other - then where is the justice, the fairness in life? No. I'm responsible for me. Everything that happens to me is my fault - my responsibility. If it is my responsibility, then it can't by yours, therefore there is no blame.

Please think through what I have attempted to explain. Please don't belittle my ideas without thinking them through. I think you'll find an internal consistency that is fair and logical. You my find wisdom in them, and again you may not. It all depends on your state of understanding. And maybe your state of understanding is much greater than mine, but this is where I'm at in my evolution.
Majic
 
Hello Majic,
thank you for your explanation of your beliefs as I now have a clearer understanding of your position.
I do agree that we may well have a small say in certain things prior to coming back but not much. Other than that I think my views have been aired enough over several threads as to why I don't agree with your main positions. But I won't go into them again as I guess it is now time to agree to disagree.
Thanks though for your reply.
Regards,
Hammy.
 
I am leaving this theater

Why do you have to enjoy the movie (life experience) to stay. Wanting to walk out of the theater is the same as giving up. ....... Majic, on 3/17/05

I not sure how you got the idea that I feel reincarnation is like walking into a movie theater and watching life unfold. ...... Majic on 3/19/05

Majic, you confuse me. I give up.
 
Don't give up so easy, Kris. Just to defend myself a little: I never suggested in the first place that life was like a movie, I simply commented on Hammy's comment about not having the opportunity of walking out. It was out of context.

I'm sure if you consider what I have said seriously enough you will find there are no real conflict, ambiguities, contradictions or whatever in what I'm saying.

“When you possess great treasures within you, and try to tell others of them, seldom are you believed.”
From
Paulo Coelho, The Alchemist: HarperSanFrancisco, A Division of HarperCollins Publishers, Inc., 1998, page 134.
Majic
 
I give in!

Good explanation, Majic. For whatever it is worth, I will summarize what I get out of fiziwig's and your ideas. Starting with fiziwig, I get this.

1. Reincarnation is like walking into a movie theater.
2. We do this for pre-scripted experience.
3. Free will is an illusion.
4. We have nothing to learn because we are already perfect beings.

Now, I see you as saying the following.

1. We pre-plan our next incarnation.
2. We are here to learn particular lessons.
3. We create our experiences to gain knowledge.
4. We have total free will and therefore total responsibility for our lives.

Now I can say that both you and fiziwig have self-consistent beliefs, albeit diametrically opposite ones.
 
I believe that those of us who are wise will pre plan our next incarnation. Most people, however are unable to plan for next week, let alone next life.

But I believe we have a little more autonomy than is commonly assumed and we simply go in the direction that we wish to go in - lessons are sometimes learned, sometimes not.

So people come back looking for all sorts of things: power, love, revenge, work, or simply to "be".

And some people seem to be lost with no idea what to do, or what the ramifications of their earthly actions might bring them.
 
After all, we did come here to forget who we really are.
Click to expand...

Yey, that´s it(I think)! That´s the only reason we´re here.

Now why in the hell would we want to do that if we´re really, like I believe, one with God etc.? For fun? Well, as has been said, most of the time it´s really the opposite of fun, in varying degrees.

The explanation of this that makes sense to me is...(*drumroll*):

Even the starkest hell of this earth-life experience would always be preferred (sounds crazy...and, well, it really is) against the naked experience of the belief that we have on a "proto-ego" level (pre- individual) separated ourselves from One, from Reality.

And so to avoid the cosmic dread of standing eye to eye with what we, on a deep first-step collective ego level, BELIEVE we have done (effectively"killed God")we went on, and go on, splintering off into ever widening circles of macro- and microscopic versions of the subject-object division. Running like mad from a Reality, a Source, a "Father", we in our hearts believe would fry our collective *** like nothing before or after, had "He" gotten a hold of us.

So that would be the reason for this fantastically strong investment in this constant distraction of the the roller-coaster"entertainment"; to at all costs avoid facing our this horrific core belief that is, as it were, holding up the universe. We really did come here to forget who we really are. Not on a whim though but rather as a perceived pressing need of the "collective ego-psyche".

The solution would be "The parable of the prodigal son"; all threat perceived
firstly on the level of (let´s call it) proto-ego and then in panic projected onwards dreaming up universes, is the projected horror of this our perceived (=illusory)prime horror. But, as in the parable, the perceived threat of "punishment" is not based on fact. It is not there. The whole shebang would, according to this thinking, be an illusion made in dreams as a psychological defense.

Thusly, there is nothing to be feared and tons to be won for us as the "Son"("Sonship", really, or "Daughtership", for that matter), in returning home to the "Father"(/"Mother").
(Concrete actions here, in what would be peceived as an evolving process, would be things like: hooking up with Spirit through prayer, meditation, giving up projection in the everyday through active "forgiveness" , etc.)

Well, how about the infernal theodice´problem (let´s crack that one , while we´re at it, O.K.;) ). I.e."How could a loving God create a situation where we´re able to even dream of suffering...?" Well, according to the above he didn´t, it is an illusion... on the deepest level (the one of reality) it is not.

And at that point, in jolliful glee, ends the road for Thinky-thingie-knob- on-top-of-the-neck;). For the moment...
 
What I keep hearing is "we, we, we." People talk about the choices they make, or the lives they think they are living. But what/who is making the choices? What/who is doing the living?

For some of us, there may have been so much unhappiness in our lives that we feel completely severed from our soul/higher self. There's a great deal of guilt for such people when all we hear is "You create your reality," or "You chose the circumstances of your life." And when we can't seem to change anything, no matter what choices we make, it's made to seem like it's our fault.

Perhaps our souls/higher selves have free will. But there are a lot of us who can't draw on that, who can't remember why we chose what we did, and who now feel like we're at the mercy of some evil overlord creature (soul). Imagine having your life controlled by some other entity, but you don't know who, and you don't know why they're doing such awful things to you. Would you feel powerful? Would you still feel like you had free will when it appeared you didn't have any choice in what was going on (other than to suck it up and try to keep going, even though 20+ years should be more than enough for anyone)?

If we truly have free will -- I mean, if it is truly FREE -- then we, the ego-based humans who actually have to do the living and feel the pain, should be privy to what is going on. If I feel that I'm being punished (by my soul, for karmic reasons), I darn well want to know why! It doesn't help to just feel the pain and not be able to learn (until later, after my life is down the toilet and I'm already dead, not having enjoyed anything in life) why I'm getting kicked in the teeth by the universe.

As Hammy said:
shall I go on? or should I shoot the film maker?
Click to expand...

That made me smile, but only because I know exactly what he/she means. We're told to enjoy the ride, to make our lives the best they can be, etc., etc., etc.... But if the raw material isn't there... well, I can't make an Oscar-winning film out of blurry, ripped, shaky footage, can I? (Well, I guess I could, but it would just be a depressing art film that few people would want to sit through.)

For some of us, life isn't a bed of roses. Not everyone even wants to be in the theatre. Free will is a very attractive idea, but if it isn't actually our will that is free, then it becomes yet another ideological prison for those of us who feel like the universe's punching bags.

Lib
 
The story of my life

But what/who is making the choices? What/who is doing the living?
Click to expand...
There is no simple and convincing answer to this question that I know of. I have lived most of my life pondering these questions. Since my mind practically never stops, at every stage in my life I came up with different answers to these questions. My answers changed with time and it was not just because I was growing older. I think my answers changed as the focus of my consciousness changed. Fortunately, they became more and more satisfying with time. As a matter of fact, I felt a sea change in my outlook as my answers changed. Basically, my answers were of three types.

My first answers were that everybody around me, those I was interacting with, directly or indirectly, were making all those decisions that were making my life miserable. I cursed everybody, I could point my fingers at. These answers left me angry and frustrated at my world. Yet I could not think of any other answers. I thought I was going to explode. Suicide was an ever present consideration. This is how I lived most of my life.

When I was at lowest point, I think focus of my consciousness began to shift. At least, that is how I analyze the situation now looking back. With this shift, I felt I was all wrong about the source of my problems. I felt I am the only one responsible for my all my misery. The notion of karma - cause and effect, actions and consequences - began to take hold. It became clear that my enemy was staring at me each time I looked in the mirror. I became somewhat more peaceful and less angry, but peace does not mean the end of suffering in every way. Pain does not go away just because you think you know what causes it. This phase lasted for a few more years.

Then I started sensing another shift in my consciousness. I decided I could not be responsible for all the actions that have lead to my suffering. I am just not that powerful a guy. I decided that perhaps what is missing in my life is not all that important after all. I began to wonder why I wanted all these unattainable things. Needless to say, I became peaceful as these third set of answers began to take hold. I am thankful that I have had long enough life to have witnessed all these changes and shifts.

Looking back all these swings, I think that different answers become apparent to us as we learn to shift our consciousness. The reason there is no single convincing answer to the above questions is because the focus of our consciousness determines what makes sense to us. My second answer simlply did not make any sense in the first phase. My third answer seems like a cop out viewed from the second phase. Each answer only makes sense when our consciousness is suitably focussed for it.

Based on the focus of our consciousness, I think, we basically go through four primary modes of being. I have discussed three here. I am guessing that a fourth one exists, for even this relative peace doesn't seem like the end of the road. These are just my two bits based on my life.
 
I have to agree with Knightwolf on this

Trying to plan out your entire life before you enter it is overwelming. I think that when we make a plan for our lives it is only a guideline on what we are going to do. Let's face it the biggest constant in the universe is Murphy's Law and it has a way to throw your plans right out the window.
Click to expand...

I do not believe that our whole life is scripted. I do believe we make a guideline, and try to follow the course we outlined. However, fate and circumstances and consequences of our choices "free will" if you may, lead us to the paths we take or not take. One action causes a reaction which could have a domino effect on those around us. What we do affects our life and the lives of others who are connected to or have a recourse in the actions we take.

For instance, if I had married my first boyfriend, how different would my life be now? Would I know you all, would I have a family of my own, would I be divorced? I don't know.

I'm sure on some parallel universe I am and I do, and so on.
 
Kris, I would have to agree with you with those three stages. I have gone through them myself, and now I feel I'm at your third stage.

I think Majic proposes a plausible idea with his "movie theater" set up, yet I think he should have elaborated on responsibility some more. Think of creating a brand new game that no one has ever thought of before. You create all of the rules, the board on which you play, the pieces with which you play, etc. You've thought out everything, then attempt to play your game with someone. Despite all your careful planning, the inevitable happens. You encounter a problem that you had not forseen, and then have to improvise to your best abilities. This is just a smaller example of what happens all the time. You see it especially when computer programmer's make up new software, and then there happens to be a "glitch" or some kind of problem. That's what was wrong with Majic's theory. He didn't mention that despite our best efforts to create a "good movie", we don't always consider or see all possibilities. If your intellect is at a lower level, you will have less of a chance of seeing all the possibilities. Going back to the example of creating a game, imagine trying to tell a 5 year old to create that same game. Because he has limited intellect, he's not going to consider as many possibilities as we would.

I feel that our problems are just our lack of ability to perceive everything that could possibly happen. We plan out our lives to the best of our abilities, and learn how to better plan from there. Once again, look at the game. You saw the problems you had with the game the first time around. You come out with a second version of the game with your new rules incorporated, but once again, a new problem presents itselfs. The cycle continues itself until we've perceived all possibilities (and who knows how long that might take). Moreover, as we go through the cycle, we will encounter less and less problems; the 5 year old will encounter MANY more problems than we would.

Just some thoughts.
 
Willing just doesn't cut it

It is like when we play musical chairs. The last two guys are aiming for the same chair, but only one gets it. Willing is just not enough even if it is absolute. If a trickster god is pulling away chairs one by one, can we deny him free will?
 
It is like when we play musical chairs. The last two guys are aiming for the same chair, but only one gets it. Willing is just not enough even if it is absolute. If a trickster god is pulling away chairs one by one, can we deny him free will?
Click to expand...

This is assuming that the number of chairs is limited. In an infinite universe, won't there always be enough chairs? Maybe you'll have to search for that other chair... or maybe it won't look like a chair at all... but won't the "chair" be there in some form?

And, no, we can't deny a "trickster god" free will. But if he has it, everyone else has it, too. I agree that willing isn't enough. But what if failing to get that "last chair" is something that was planned on some level?

Just because we can be thwarted by the plans of others doesn't mean there is chaos. To me, that word means complete randomness. I don't believe in that. I think that things can look chaotic, though, when the free will of many people gets all mixed up together. Each of those events was planned or willed... but from our point of view, they look chaotic because they weren't what we planned. But someone else planned them. Therefore, I don't think they could be classed as chaotic. Unless you want to call them "relatively chaotic"... :)

Lib
 
Libellule said:
This is assuming that the number of chairs is limited. In an infinite universe, won't there always be enough chairs? Maybe you'll have to search for that other chair... or maybe it won't look like a chair at all... but won't the "chair" be there in some form?

And, no, we can't deny a "trickster god" free will. But if he has it, everyone else has it, too. I agree that willing isn't enough. But what if failing to get that "last chair" is something that was planned on some level?Lib
Click to expand...

There are always enough chairs. But we want "that" chair, not just any chair. All the conflicts in the world have their roots in "that" chair. We are just not mature enough to be happy with just any chair. Just look at the Arab-Israeli conflict. You are right about the infinite universe. Apparently, "God of the Bible" was not aware of infinite universe. He had to uproot the Philistines (are these today's Palestinians?), the Cannanites and a few others, to give that piece of land to the Hebrews.

Lib, we may all have free will. Perhaps, we are locked in a test of wills with the "trickster" god. In that case, I think our best bet is to try to understand god's will so that we can make the right moves on our part.

I agree with you on chaos. What thwarts our plans is not chaos, but each other. The inhabitants of this world simply don't make their plans in cooperation with each other. Oftentimes, one person is planning to defeat other person's plans.
 
free will

:rolleyes: I believe that "free will" is an illusion. The way I see it is that, otherwise, life would be chaos, or the human race would have died out by now. Think about how many people you connect with everyday, whether it's someone who is in your life all the time or someone who you speak to for 10 seconds and never see them again in your life. I was buying groceries one day and a woman about my age asked me for a penny (cent to you Americans ;) as she needed some bread and her partner had gone to another shop with the money (!) Then last week in the same store an old lady asked me to help her find things, and read her shopping list. I have a strong belief in a "connection" thing that runs through all our lives and that everything is planned out in detail. Wasn't there someone who escaped the 9/11 disaster because he'd forgotten his camera (before everything happened; think he was a tourist) and went back for it? I think as humans we are used to seeing everything in a macrocosm, and don't look enough at the minute details: e.g. people have always thought that illnesses were caused by this and that, lifestyle, smoking etc, but it seems now that it's all down to what genes we inherit. I have a hereditary illness and it has made a big impact on my life but this could all be caused by one bit of dna going wrong somewhere- something that you could only measure in nanometres (I think!) so to me there doesn't appear to be any free will because life is too complicated and it wouldn't work.
 
I used to beleive in free will, that even if we had a predestined path that we could go off course and change it.
But because of certain circumstances in my own life and hearing of similar things from others I know, I am now wondering if it is alot more complicated to change our destinated path. I am beginning to think we can only change it with the approval from our spirit guides or higher powers that are guiding us.
 
I think you make plans before you reincarnate but free will always comes into play. If you are to meet up with someone to learn a lesson with them then everything changes depending on if you learned the lesson or didn't. If it were that predestined then we would always learn the lesson we planed and there would only be one outcome and we would move on. We don't always learn our lessons first time around and we repeat them until we complete them. I don't believe we are set up to fail. We have free will to do the work or take the easy way out.
 
fiziwig said:
If that were the case then we get to have complete freedom of choice, but only while we are between incarnations.
Click to expand...
Or when we have solved the reasons that made us "choose" our current life.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top