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Peter, it's interesting it's your father who seems to be behind your spiritual searching. See, here in the forum, it is almost always the mother who is involved with such things. Carol's book, too, concentrated heavily on the mother's role in helping a child uncover past life trauma. My own personal observation in life has led me to believe that far, far more mothers are into spiritual matters than fathers. Why is your father an exception, do you think?

Sunday
 
Hi Sunday.

Both my Mother and Father have been my mentors and spiritual teachers throughout this life.

I'm no more "lucky" than anyone else. Those who choose abusive parents are just as "lucky" as I. Everyone chooses their environment for the ultimate Good. Those who were born into abusive relationships did so to experience and learn from it to further develop spiritually. THAT is what matters, always. We're all here to develop and evolve into more aware spiritual beings, we're all on different paths to that same goal. ANY chance you have to attain that goal, be it through pain or not, is a REMARKABLE and graceful opportunity. No matter your situation, NOBODY is more "lucky" than you. Nobody is in a better situation than you, ever. You're always experiencing the exact situation you require for the betterment of your spiritual understanding and awareness. Every experience is a lesson you can use as a stepping stone, God's plan is Divine and no plan is more Divine than another.

Warmest Always,

Peter V (Actually, I'm Peter the IV, but it is a Dutch dynasty, not Russian)
 
Hey Peter,
I've always had conflicting feelings about people born into 'abusive' relationships. Do they really choose to be born in that situation because they need to experience the abuse?! Or do they choose to be born in that situation to offer the opportunity for change to the abuser?!
There is also the situation of choosing to be born into a family that then undergoes a complex shift of circumstance. Not everything is preordained. Say one chooses to be born to two people and after the child is born then the people part and become involved with abusive others who were not neccessarily in the entities' planning!!!
catseye
 
Catseyes,

I can't agree more then with you in that subject, some of us are "lucky" to born
into a spiritual loving family what is
trully wonderful, but some of us I'm talking
about myself, who is pushing middle age,
was adopted who knows where in a communist
country, step parents couldn't be more awful
and in my deepest heart and my soul God or "force" see in me I am greatful for it...
I don't think I ever would get to where I am
spiritually otherwise....
However did I chose this or not it is not
clear, I just hope I did...
It is just wonderful all of us reaching something in are different way

------------------
Dora
 
Dear Dora,
I think I chose some of the circumstances in this life, and yes, it is the hard experiences that allow us to grow the most. But I have also tried to make other people think, without having to actually experience a circumstance, how it would change them, or make them see things from a different perspective. Unfortunately it seems that our world just seems to breed anger and fear and hatred. I can't believe that all these people CHOSE to come into the world without the chance to improve themselves. Look at all the young children who are killed, what did their souls learn by being murdered as infants or toddlers?
I still say, sometimes we choose adversity to learn to survive and grow and other times we enter a situation that can change through the FREE WILL of our parents or siblings, or anyone from whom we expect guidance and receive pain and anguish.
catseye
 
Hi Peter,

Well, I have posted this at other times and in other sections of the forum...if you already saw it -forgive me, I couldn't resist!

You suggested that G-d's plan was the reason for abuse and life time scenarios.

I hold a different 'theory' -- it is the following and it is based on my own experiences and my research in the Tibetan Book of the Dead and The Egyptian Book of the Dead.

WHAT WE HOLD IN CONSCIOUSNESS AT THE TIME OF OUR DEATH, WE OURSELVES CREATE IN THE NEXT LIFE.

I have been able to weave together, this premise in my "lives" and have found it to be a personal truth. Could it be that in Buddhism, Jewish, Christianity and in so many ancient religions, we have lost the original intention behind the "belief?" Could it be that what was intended was to stop the process of CREATING "suffering and Imperfection"?

Consciousness creates. And of course we have created suffering and imperfection in order to learn compassion, empathy and the deepest essence of Love.

If my theory is true, then the whole point of coming back, is to be aware..your entire life concerning the condition of your mind/body/spirit and not to hold fear, anger or negativity. It isn't necessarily a last minute evaluation, but a life time one. If we hold onto these "energies/vibrations" consciousness will recreate it in the next life. Heaven is here on earth..the ending of suffering and imperfection is a Conscious choice.

We are attracted to souls because of their ENERGY..like a magnet we are drawn to them..like attracts like. Bottom line is CONSCIOUSNESS CREATES our reality, and if you look into new physic's, even science says so!

Love,
Deborah
 
I want more memory just to have the continuity constantly available to me. It's like losing something not to have all one's memories. It feels like I'm incomplete. I want to remember what happened all my life now too. Amnesia doesn't seem correct. If that used to be me I want all of me back. Or if I didn't own all of myself and owe this memory to someone else then I want to know all about that too. Why, why, why. I think heaven is the ability to access all those memories at will. I want to walk this earth and continue to recognize people the way I have been more. I don't want to have to learn French twice on this planet. I want to continue where I left off. It's as if I'm always starting over if I have to keep dying and getting reborn. People that have read my stuff probably don't know I've never had a regression. Nor can I afford one that I know of. It sounds like such luxury to have all those memories, and graphic details. I simply have voices in my head that speak to me and tell me things and sometimes they tell me in dreams with pictures and/or voices. Whatever the reasons and rules are for such sketchy answers to my thousands of questions I want that path to overcome the necessity for those rules causing memory blockage, mystery, uncertainty, etc. What's important is to get the right answer one has to ask the right question.
 
I don't know guys...this is starting to sound like flowery new age jargon to me...like taking spirit world words and ways and trying to fit them exactly to the Earth. And I will propose to you that the Earth is NOT the spirit world, and to see it as such is a mistake.

Peter, your answers are a bit too "pat" for me, dear. I'm beginning to wonder if actually you're just not lacking a bit in genuine empathy for those who suffer in ways you haven't. And I am breaking one of my cardinal rules here: NEVER assume you know how much someone else has suffered in life. And do forgive me if I'm wrong...and that you personally know what it is like to be abused or unloved as a child...or that you personally know what it's like to be a cold, homeless, hungry bum on a park. bench.

You told us in another post that we should have no sympathy for the bum or try to help him in any way; that we should realize he chose that life, and it is a noble life indeed. And let me propose the following: 1) Most people who die hungry, homeless and unloved die bitterly. 2) When one sees such a life as a great way to grow spiritually, one is also saying: You have no obligation to help those less fortunate, to feed the hungry, to provide them with shelter.

And of course no one should feel OBLIGATED to help those less fortunate...but do you know what the world would be like if everyone felt that way? PLEASE...if I'm sitting on a park bench, sit me next to someone who helps the poor and the hungry...or sit me next to the bum...but don't sit me next to someone who is saying how spiritually enhancing a bum's life is, and then leaves the park to go home to a warm house, warm food and warm relatives.

Also, how about abused children, Peter? Do we just assume they have chosen that life and turn a blind eye to the abuse? Do we cover our ears when they scream, and just rationalize that they'll be so happy they chose such a brutal life when they return to the spirit world?

No! The Earth is not he spirit world! You can't just sit by and do nothing about cruelty and starvation and suffering. If you do, mankind will destroy themselves and the earth. And this is not to suggest that most people are bad...it is to suggest when evil and apathy is allowed to grow and grow and grow, it starts taking over and corrupting everyone and everything.

All the flowery new age talk is no different then the old saying: It is the will of God. No different. I see nothing wrong with looking at the BIG picture or the spirit world...but, in my opinion, when one does so in a way that allows one to be blind or apathetic or to make new age excuses for the day to day suffering one sees, one needs to go live in the spirit world full-time!

Sunday
 
Hi Sunday. You misunderstood my posts.
smile.gif


"Peter, your answers are a bit too "pat" for me, dear. I'm beginning to wonder if actually you're just not lacking a bit in genuine empathy for those who suffer in ways you haven't."

You're welcome to your opinion. However, this is NOT the case.

"You told us in another post that we should have no sympathy for the bum or try to help him in any way; that we should realize he chose that life, and it is a noble life indeed."

No I did not. What I said was that SOMETIMES by trying to do what we think is right for others, we do them more harm. Sometimes a "bum" may need that helping hand, that extra dollar. But others just may need their experience to "wake up". If you go ahead thinking you're doing the right thing and give him/her the money, then he/she will not have that chance to "wake up" because you're fueling that situation. The giving of Unselfish Love will help them more than a few dollars here or there. BEING with them, CHANGING their lives will do more for them. You can give them a dollar and feel that you did a good thing. But that is not always the case. If you truly want to do good, and truly want to help them, then be with them, talk to them, and show them someone loves them to help promote their own self love - Unselfishly.

"When one sees such a life as a great way to grow spiritually, one is also saying: You have no obligation to help those less fortunate, to feed the hungry, to provide them with shelter."

No life, no experience is void of spiritual oppritunity. As I said above, we have the obligation to help and love everyone on earth, while respecting the fact that everyone on earth is experincing their own life, their own lesson, in the best manner that will result in the unfoldment of their spiritual growth.

"...but don't sit me next to someone who is saying how spiritually enhancing a bum's life is, and then leaves the park to go home to a warm house, warm food and warm relatives."

I'm not saying that at all.

"Also, how about abused children, Peter? Do we just assume they have chosen that life and turn a blind eye to the abuse? Do we cover our ears when they scream, and just rationalize that they'll be so happy they chose such a brutal life when they return to the spirit world?"

Absolutly not. It is their entire life experience that they have chosen to experience. You are always obligated to Love others and show and feel compassion towards other people - regardless of situation. Do you pity them, or do you feel compassion towards them? Pity never does good. Unselfish Love and Compassion always does.

"You can't just sit by and do nothing about cruelty and starvation and suffering."


I never once said you should.


Deborah,

You're absolutly right, "Consciousness creates."

Our reality is founded on this concept. Mind is the builder and your consciousness creates your reality.

"Like attracts like" deals with the attraction between yourself and other individuals, things, conditions and places. You create your own unique and personal universe through your thoughts and beliefs. Your thoughts, attitudes, and reactions to persons and circumstances create a vibrational field. This vibrational field acts as a magnet to draw to you others of like nature.

Your vibrational field is a product of your physical, mental and spiritual conditions. That fields plays an important part in your interaction with others.

The law of attraction can be stated this way:

As you seek, you attract and are attracted to that which will fulfill your search.


In a similar manner, the law of repulsion can be stated this way:

As you seek, you repel and are repelled by that which will not fulfill your search.

These sub-laws, like others, are impartial. They work whether you seek something beneficial or something detrimental for yourself and others.

"That you dwell upon… you become… that you hate suddenly befalls you…"
[Edgar Cayce Reading 2034-1]

You have created whatever exists in your life or is happening to you at this time. Through the laws of attraction and repulsion, coupled with your deep desires, you have brought that creation into your life to fulfill your present needs and desires.

That creation is what you need now for your greatest development and your highest good!

These laws apply, and can be used to transform, change or build new patterns in every aspect of life (for example, relationships, skills and abilities, projects, health, spiritual or emotional healing, etc.) or gain a deeper understanding of yourself and your relation to your Creator.

Warmest Regards,

Peter V
 
Oh goodness!!

Let's see. I have to agree with Sunday on this one. You know sometimes an advanced soul may choose to be born into a painful situation that involves suffering in order to teach the rest of us that we need to show empathy and compassion. To show us that we need to make a difference in a world that has so much suffering.

And I may be wrong here becaus it has been a long time since I have read any Edgar Cayce material but something came crashing into my head when I read Sunday's posting. One of the authors who has written on Cayce had a section in a book (and I don't remember which book; not even sure if I possess this particular book either). This section was about the different nations of the world and the collective karma associated with each nation. This information was supposedly based on the readings. It gave positive and negative karma about each subject. I found the information on India very interesting because Mr. Cayce said that India's weakness was its obsession with self. If we look at India's view of reincarnation and its caste system, we can see much the same attitude that Sunday was alluding to above. The attitude that these unfortunate untouchables deserve their fate because it is their karma. India's problem was that its people were too concerned with their own individual advancement. They were too concerned with self. There are many more spiritual lessons to be learned by reaching out and touching others. And this is the importance of Christ's message of mercy. A message about reaching out. In fact, the Cayce book alluded to the fact that a mixing of the two cultures (the reincarnation and mystical attributes of the east and the christian compassion and notion of mercy of the west) would actually be beneficial and I think that is what we are seeing today.

There is also the notion of grace which can alleviate negative karma. God's grace or maybe one can call it forgiveness. I don't think that it wipes away the lessons that need to be learned as a result of bad deeds but it certainly makes them more bearable. By lending a compassionate hand to those in need, we can in effect be instruments of God's grace. And that is a wonderful thing.

I also agree with Deborah that there needs to be a broad change of consciousness on the planet and yes, a planet of suffering and pain can become a planet of love and light. It takes work and effort on a global scale but it has to start on an individual level. If we exude love and compassion we effect those around us in profound ways. And that is a wonderful thing too. I love this forum because I think that it is full of individuals who want to make the world a better place. I think that good things will come out of the relationships forged here and perhaps in our small way, we can make a stride toward a more compassionate earth.

That's all!
Love adn light,
Shari
 
Well, Peter, I apologize for misunderstanding what you meant...but for some reason I saw the whole thing going in the direction of "that's their life, they must live it, it's karma, etc."...and so often the very people who say such things have suffered little in their current life, and live in somewhat self-centered, self-contained worlds...and are far, far removed from the suffering they are treating so lightly.

I believe we learn a lot from suffering...but should never disregard the devastating affect it can have spiritually, mentally and physically on humans. Especially where children are concerned. And I totally agree on your view about pity...I see pity as nothing but self-righteousness in disguise.

Shari, excellent post! Now, I feel obligated to pull out the old Cayce books, and read them again!

Sunday
 
I think there's much truth in what everyone has said. I agree with Peter, that our lives are our choices, and we have made those choices for a reason. Even those children who are born into abusive situations.

However, the reality that we each have created/chosed for ourselves IS impacted by the choices made by others. I suspect on one level, that this 'variance' allows us to adapt, to learn, to experience something that isn't quite to linearly defined. Going into a new life doesn't mean we can guarantee the result -- other than that we will learn.

Please, please, don't think I don't have empathy for abused children. I was one. Growing up that way is not what I would wish for anyone. However, I did learn the value of cherishing children.

The abuse that my sister and I endured was the partial result of choices made by our mother and her reaction to her situation. I believe that we chose to be together in this life to provide assistance to each other. Our mother opted to choose a different path.

On an emotional level, yep, it still hurts, to know that my life was of no value in her eyes. On the spiritual level, I truly do feel sorry for her, because she has created a life of bitterness for herself, and I know that I cannot change her choice.
 
Diane, you are to be greatly commended for not only enduring your childhood, but coming out of it a wise soul with no bitterness. Suffering does teach many lessons.

And it was not my intention to accuse anyone personally of not being empathetic towards abused children...I made the remarks out of my concerns about the growing apathy towards all sorts of evil things...as well as the increasing "segregaton" of the population...where people are putting gates on their neighborhoods to keep out those who aren't like them.

Some people are born into abusive situations to pay a karmic debt, some to help others, some to learn hard lessons...but yet what type of person stands by and watches a child being abused? What type of society allows this?

Do you see what my problem is with this...a child supposedly is born on the earth to experience horrible things...that no righteous person and no decent society should allow this child to be experiencing. There's just something wrong with this picture, this set-up!

Anyone think they can explain this to me?

Sunday
 
Sunday,

I didn't mean to imply that anyone intends to be born into a situation where abuse is predestined. But part of growth is learning to use the power/ability that each of us has within us. That ability is neither 'good' nor 'evil' -- just sort of is, and can be used to benefit or not.

In my mother's case, it was not used for the good. This is something that she must deal with as her soul progresses. The good news here, is that she does get more chances to make choices. Kind of like not doing too well on a test, but studying like crazy to do better on the next one <g>.

Nor do I believe that we should stand by and tolerate abuse. But don't blame it on present-day society! What happened to me happened a long time ago, in times when it wasn't talked about. Our culture today is more aware of these things because there are a few brave souls who keep it in the news. We are making progress, but, as in so many other things, making progress doesn't mean our job is done. Keep in mind that society is nothing more (or less) than the aggregate of souls existing at that point in time.

Surely if we can create this reality, we can also create solutions to these problems.
 
Hey Diane,

I understand what you are saying, and I wasn't trying to blame child abuse on present-day society. Also, so no one misunderstands where I'm coming from, I'm not into Messiah Complexes...so I don't see life as a big situation where we must "save" others or expect others to "save" us.

See, my problem is accepting the reincarnaton belief that we choose lives where we MOST LIKELY will be abused as children...because it does seem logical to say: "Well, no one should interfere with abused children, because they are learning a lesson." Does it not?

I mean, it just seems like some strange "set-up" where a soul is intended to learn a lesson as a child that righteous people and decent societies should not be tolerating. It's like the soul is sent to learn a lesson, and others are sent to make sure the child soul does not learn the lesson. It's like a bizaare contradiction to me! So, I can't accept that particular reincarnation belief.

In regards to your mother, I firmly believe we can learn lessons at any time in life...and we are given chance after chance to learn lessons...and some do eventually learn the lessons...whereas others just go in circles all their lives, and don't learn lessons. I know more than one person who seems bent on going in circles to the bitter end...and they are usually the ones who always think others won't ever change or can't change...because they themselves don't want to change.

Sunday
 
Sunday,

I think we see things quite a bit alike. I'm not sure that we don't, however, agree to place ourselves in situations that will allow us and others to choose. We don't learn to walk without a few falls. Maybe it's something like that in selecting lives that will allow our souls to choose to do that which increases growth. It's a risk. If we don't allow ourselves to choose, then how do we learn?

I don't think anyone deliberately says, hey, next time around, I'll be a victim. I do think, however, that we do agree to allow ourselves, or those we have agreed to come back with, to have the freedom of choice.

Where I have a problem, is that blurry line that defines our various choices. I agree to come back in relationships that have been basically predefined. But the quality of the relationships are open; not yet defined. I want to go this way; others in my 'group' want to go another way. Their choices affect my choice and my actions. But, I'm not always so sure where, or how deeply. How much do I owe to my original group if their decisions are not my own?

Part of me says, hey, it's their choice and I really don't have to go along with it. Part of me says, kiddo, you agreed to go along with the group and if you don't go along with the current gameplan, you're guilty of desertion.

That's a bit simplistic, I know, but sort of represents the dilemna that I face with my family. The draw of family is extremely strong, but at the same time, if I allow myself to be drawn into it, I don't know if I'm strong enough to maintain the me of me.
 
Hi Diane,

Yes, I can see how souls will choose to incarnate with other souls...and then put themselves in the position of possibly being abused. But I still can't deal with hearing about brutaliy towards children...I just emotionally close down or something...and then to think they were sent down from the spirit world sorta predestined for brutality...I just can't accept or deal with that thought for some reason.

Oh, I find the family loyalty matter very interesting! I think some people end up staying around families they never actually "belonged" to, because they subconsciously know they have to work on things within that family structure...either to grow spiritually or in an attempt to "help" the family.
I sense you see it more as loyalty to the group, whereas I guess I see it more as an obligation or task. But then all family situations are different.

I've always felt a strong sense of "me"...self-centredness?...and I do think it is so important to retain your individuality...because when you return to the spirit world, you go back...alone.

Sunday
 
To Everyone,

It took me over an hour to catch up reading all these posts and I was very impressed with all the concepts that were brought up and discussed! It was a lot more interesting than a study site I'd visited previously although that site gave me an idea for a new
Everything topic. I'd love to set loose our minds on it because I think we could come up with some terrific ideas. Kat
 
Sunday, I will soon as it looks like other hot topics are cooling off. I notice, sometimes, there are so many new topics up that I don't have time to get to all of them, especially if there is a lot to read and I really feel frustrated.
One might sound interesting but not engage a good discussion while others don't start out great but BECOME very great.
I also notice that sometimes someone will pull a topic back up that everyone pretty much ignored (including yours truly) and add something that really peaks everyone's interesting and suddenly its very hot.
I thought, I'd eye the situation for a bit, anyway. When I post it, I am hoping for lots of views since it is that sort of thing, room for plenty of opinions of all kinds~Kat
 
Hello everyone,

I haven't posted in a while (**** trigonometry homework) so I might as well add my two cents in here. I've always believed that souls ocassionally choose to place themselves in challenging situations in order to gain experience. Notice that I didn't actually say anything specifically, like abuse, just challenging in the sense that their life wouldn't come up roses. To me, the idea that souls get stuck in rotten places as "punishment" just because they've got some negative karma on their record makes about as much sense as to me as the idea that some Christians have that God will send you to Hell if you don't accept Jesus. As Micheal Newton says, abuse is never deserved....everythings just a learning experience.

I don't really see how souls could learn anything if all they experience is positive. I once heard a pagan say in reguards to this subject "A person would be just as blind in a room full of nothing but white light as they would in a room that was pitch black." As a Pagan myself, I believe that a balance between negative and positive influences is necessary to keep the universe moving and for learning the things we need to learn.

-Gatekeeper
 
I believe that many times people incarnate into an abusive experience to break the cycle as well.

Gatekeeper, it is my belief that negitivity is only lack of positive awareness, not a reality in and of itself.
 
The world is only a classroom, we're the ones that fill it. We, the students and teachers, fill it with positivity or lack thereof. We create our reality and, depending on our state of awareness, that reality is either positive or "negative".

We can learn just as well, or better, in a purely positive atmosphere. Those lessons learned through pain are only learned through pain because they were missed in positivity.

My belief anyways.
 
Dear Peter,

I'm still having trouble seeing the point. You can't learn how to fix things if they never get broken. How would we even know what "positive" is if there was nothing to compare it too?

-Gatekeeper
 
I know love without knowing hate. I don't compare love to hate and then classify it as love because it is not hate. See what I'm trying to say?

When you experience the positive, there does not have to be a negitive to compare it to. All negitivity is, is lack of awareness.
 
Wow...about holding something in thoughts at the moment of death...

I just realized that my two thoughts I died with last time were, "I wish I wasn't me," and "Mommy can't keep me safe."

I've struggled with low self-esteem, depression, and anxiety all my life this time. <slaps forehead> I only just now noticed the connection!

cashew (sweet li'l nut)
 
Hi Cashew...
Please elaborate. I'm intrigued. But I must have lost the thread somehow.
Those are two very profound statements.
No one who hasn't experienced depression...clinical or otherwise...or true-true rip-your-heart-apart panic attacks knows what they're like.

You hit a chord with me.
Please post again.

---G.
 
Hi Cashew...
This is my second attempt to reply to your post. (I can't seem to get registered, either.) O-well.
Please elaborate on your "revelations".
I, too, experience profound "clinical" depression and anxiety. I have panic attacks that can last from 2 to 6 hours a day for as much as 3 days running. (Never more than that so far, or they'd have to either scrape me off the ceiling or mop me off the floor.)
Can you expound on what caused you to ("smack forehead") have these insights?
Can you travel with them some and discuss their ramifications in your present situation?
They hit home with me, so forgive my being so curious.
---Gypsy.
 
Gypsy, I know that you're questioning Cashew on the subject of the depression and anxiety she mentioned, but I thought I'd just help along a bit, by letting you know (in case you haven't read it already), I think Cashew was referring to something posted by Deborah on the previous page: ..."WHAT WE HOLD IN CONSCIOUSNESS AT THE TIME OF OUR DEATH, WE OURSELVES CREATE IN THE NEXT LIFE"...If you haven't already read it, go back to the first page and go way down the page and you'll find it, you may get a clearer idea of why Cashew is slapping her forehead...be careful now Cashew, you sweet lil' nut, not too hard

Kindest Regards

------------------
Kelly
 
Hi Peter -

I am not sure...one way or the other, your opinion certainly is something to think about.

But Love and Hate aren't opposites, in my opinion (I'm sure you have heard that one before.). Would you know and recognize love if you didn't also have the experience of absence of love? If all I EVER felt was love, I don't know that I would recognize it.

Oh Cashew - now I am worried about the baby that I couldn't keep safe. I sure hope she knew that in addition to being fallible, that I loved her, too.... I am curious what you remember about your relationship with your mom from your past life. Did she want you, for instance? It seems terribly unfair that a person would have to die young in one life and then spend the next life trying to overcome low self esteem as a result. I'd like to hear more, too.

love,

patty
 
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