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Later recall?

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Schuldige

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Many of the people on this board say that children usually only discuss past life memories between 2-7 years, but what do you suppose happens to a child who never forgets?

People wish they could remember their past lives. They're sorry that they lost their memories, but I think that forgetfulness is a safety mechanism. When it fails to occur, you find yourself with children who were never children, with detailed memories of their pasts that haunt them daily into adulthood. I guess if you had a relatively sedate and good life, it wouldn't do much damage to know, but what if you didn't? What if you knew something detailed about yourself, about another life and another family, from the earliest age, and DIDN'T forget?

I'm not judging anyone, but maybe it isn't such a good idea to...encourage kids to talk about their pasts too much. I'm not saying to tell them they're making it up or lying, but wondering if there is a point between it being helpful to know something, and harmful to know it?
 
Dear Schuldige,
I can't say that I remembered my past lives in childhood, but I will say that as a child I was always more afraid of doing something wrong than a normal child. I had horrible guilt problems that had no logical cause or purpose. And I always felt responsible in a manner greatly exagerated for a child. So, even though a child may not remember the actual visuals of past lives, there can be an auric thing that hangs over.
I agree that forgetting is a good thing for many children. But maybe even without actually 'remembering' there's something that holds you in a pattern. I don't think remembering as a child this life as Constance would have made things better, but I think the emotions that stayed with the soul after Constance parted, stayed for a long time.
catseye
 
Hi Schuldige

Interesting reflection. But, what I have found is that children who remember know better than most -- who they are. They reflect in a very holistic manner to their reality. They know how to be a child longer and better than most -- not wanting to grow up too fast.

For example, I remember being at a 3rd grade outing with my son's class. After lunch one of the boys jumped up and ran over to his friend Brian..he said

"Come on Brian, let's go play -- we have our lives to live all over again!"

------------------
Love,
Deborah

Lifes experiences weave a tapestry of knowledge
 
Catseye,

You make an interesting point. Forgetting it and being free of it aren’t necessarily the same thing.

Deborah,

I’ll start off by saying that this is a great site, and that Bowman’s books are DEFINITELY a step in the right direction. I have reservations about encouraging memory though, because of what can happen if a child retains memory. Of course I could be wrong in relating the two, since total recall can happen independent of prodding, or not happen in spite of it.

At any rate, here is the problem I have with encouraging too much memory.

I guess it could depend on the child, however, if past lives are real and people retain real memories, that which they experienced in their former lives could be as potentially damaging now as psychological trauma in the present. This would be especially true of kids who retained total recall past the regular cut off age for memory retention.

Such individuals might NOT see this new life as an opportunity to be children again, especially if they saw the entire endeavor as pointless. I’m not talking about children who are kids first, but who happen to have some specific memories that fade over time, but about people like Shanti Devi, for whom the present life is just a continuation of the past. They simply pick up where they left off, exhibiting xenoglossy and retaining some visages of the ability over time. Of course, such kids would eventually lose their native tongues, as many people do when they spend a significant portion of their lives totally immersed in another language. The point though, is that they could still remember the grammatical rules and the simplest visages of their former language even into adulthood.

If kids like that experienced a traumatic event in a past that was still so alive to them, western society doesn’t have any recourse for them BUT to forget. There aren’t too many counselors out there who would seriously talk to a 12 year old about his civil war experiences in order to deal with post traumatic stress disorder etc. Sometimes even those who aren’t skeptical merely consider the past as an appendage to the present, but for someone who always knew and never forgot, it is simply the past, as alive to them as a past of loss and grief are to people in their present lives.

My personal theory is that recall is natural, but that total retention isn’t. If kids who have this problem aren’t dealt with in a serious manner when they’re young, it can come back around and overshadow every aspect of their lives. That doesn’t even begin to address the issue of how kids like that end up fitting into a society which won’t even recognize half of their lives as even having existed.

What about those kids who were NEVER interested in slumber parties or the playground, who didn’t play with toys, and later, didn’t go on dates (partly because they couldn’t figure out which gender they’d prefer), and were always that wise but downcast friend in university, who everyone knew, but no one knew anything about.

Maybe I’m not so much against encouragement of past life discussions with kids, as I am encouragement without proper support. It must be really neat when a parent discovers a child knows more than they should (for those who aren’t afraid of the idea). There are also those parents who believe in it, aren’t mystified by it, and ignore it, leaving the kids to deal with it themselves. Some knowledge exacts a toll though.

Yes, children who remember know full well who they are (of that I have no doubt), but knowing this could be the problem.

I watched a show about a year ago or so that seemed to see the same point as I do; imagine a world where everyone remembered their past lives. In fact, the memories were so clear that, like those rare people with total recall, people knew their stuff well enough to put down their previous skills on job resumes. They were just as ugly to one another as they would have been had they not known who they were, figuring that the law of cause and effect (something more simplistic than what I believe to be the case) meant that everyone got what they deserved, and so there was little sympathy for those who were suffering. Life took on LESS meaning, because people knew that they’d be coming back, and instead of making the most out of each day, they squandered their time en masse. People went to a hynotherapist to forget.

In India where reincarnation is pretty much taken as a given, it gave birth to the caste system. Granted, that system allowed India to deal with a series of invaders without being culturally assimilated themselves, but it’s also one of the most undemocratic and unfair social systems on Earth (even today, though formally not recognized by the Indian government).

Total recall is a serious enough situation that it merits special attention. They are essentially adults in children’s bodies, especially by the time they hit nine or ten. When kids are encouraged to unearth things from their pasts without a support system or recognition of their age, it could be a problem too. Like everyone else, there are good, bad, and maladjusted among them. They come with their habits, beliefs, and language intact. It would be alright if you were a housewife in Ireland, or amusing if you believed yourself to be famous or well liked, but there’s little enriching about it for a child who isn’t one, who can remember things like war and imprisonment while everyone else is talking about the muffins for the bakesale, or telling them to go play outside when they haven’t felt like playing for so long that even THEY can’t remember when the feeling struck them last. It tends to lose it’s appeal when the night terrors follow them right from pre-school to adulthood.

Most parents of kids who can remember things would never have to contend with this. Even those whose children have nightmares or talk about things beyond their comprehension, can almost always be assured that some day, all his past will be is a reassuring family story, or chalked up to imagination. I guess coming to a place and discussing strategies for dealing with the subject in relation to their children is a lot healthier than the dirty little secret mentality of 20 years ago, nor is it good for the kid to think they’re weird or have to hide it, but maybe the attempt to unearth these things should be taken in moderation. It can’t prevent the total recall phenomenon, but maybe it would blunt it a bit.

Or maybe not.

[This message has been edited by Schuldige (edited 03-28-2001).]
 
Hi Schuldige,

Wow, long post! Here comes my two cents worth

First I would like to say that there is a reason for everything. And I believe a soul will remember or forget depending on the needs of the individual. We never take on more than we can handle. I also don't think that any amount of prodding can bring past life memories to the surface for a child. It seems that in most cases the child seems to spontaneously be in another frame of mind -an altered state -and it is not something a parent or anyone else can force.

Total recall is so rare, most past life experiences - adults or children are glimpses into the past...bits and pieces of memory from another time. If you think about it, no one has total recall in this life!

You said..."experienced in their former lives could be as potentially damaging now as psychological trauma in the present"

There is a difference between a psychotherapist who sees memory trauma as a means to further emotional catharsis, self understanding and healing ---and a parapsychologist who wishes to see if past life experiences stand up to evidence.

I think you bring up the point that we are in need of a support system for children, and I agree. There are few psychotherapists for children. There are those out there right now studying and training for this very task though! I know a few. I completely agree with you that western society needs to EXPAND in the area of support for these children, and I think Carols book is a FIRST step.

But I disagree with you when you said ---"If kids like that experienced a traumatic event in a past that was still so alive to them, western society doesn't have any recourse for them BUT to forget."

I don't think that is true anymore. Did you know that A Gallup Poll was taken in 1981 and on it was asked the question -- "Do you believe in reincarnation -- that is, the rebirth of the soul in a new body after death or not?"

The query was addressed not just to religious people but the general United States adult population. 23 percent believed! This means in 1981 -- using as a base the 1981 population figures of 166 million who are over 18 years old and over, -- That there are - 38 million reincarnationists in the United States ALONE! That was 20 years ago!!!!!!!!

Also, the law of cause and effect goes much deeper than your story suggests. The original definition, and intention behind karma, Karmic law, or Karman simply means, cause and consequence. It's the consequence aspect that I believe will keep people in check.

It is also interesting to note that Edgar Cayce’s interpretations of karma suggests that karma is not destiny; it is only memory. A memory of consequence. Cayce suggests that even though we are born with memories, they are usually unconscious. But they do influence our abilities, our faults and even our relationships with others. So another words IF you remember or not - IT STILL AFFECTS YOU.

I am one to believe that our thoughts, what we hold in consciousness, determines our next ‘life experience’ and that is why there are no set rules. Maybe this is why some souls are born into the same families, and some are not. Maybe this is why some souls do not reincarnate for decades, or even centuries, while others are born into another life almost immediately. Each individual is unique, each individual sets his own way, by way of his/her thoughts, feelings and emotions. Another words, consciousness creates.

Did you by chance read my post on what Jesus said about children who do not forget?


------------------
Love,
Deborah

Lifes experiences weave a tapestry of knowledge
 
"... there is a reason for everything. And I believe a soul will remember or forget depending on the needs of the individual."

That's pretty much my mother's opinion on the subject

"I also don't think that any amount of prodding can bring past life memories to the surface for a child."

Some parents, when they find baffling habits in their children, would resort to hypnosis to discover their cause, and I would guess the vast majority of the time (you'd know better than I here), finding out what is causing the behavior can help in stopping it. Carol Bowman illustrated just such a case when she was on with Ian Punnett. Doing something like that in order to find a root cause for a problem though, IS prodding. Sometimes, it's not a good thing. Verbal prodding isn't as extreme, but I don't see a huge difference.

"Total recall is so rare, most past life experiences - adults or children are glimpses into the past...bits and pieces of memory from another time. If you think about it, no one has total recall in this life!"

I mean total recall insofar as recalling that past with the same clarity as you would your past in this life, and I don't think it is as rare as some people believe. Sure, there are some people who claim total recall and use it to their advantage, while others have recall, and though disjointed, they can pretty much piece together what happened. There are others though, who have long standing documentation of their memory. They have witnesses, family or not, that can attest to their having recalled a previous life and even a previous language. I've actually met two, one of whom has that documentation.

"There is a difference between a psychotherapist...and a parapsychologist..."

Some psychotherapists will want evidence, even if it isn't within their rights to ask. So, if a parent chooses to take their kid for some therapy, they should be really careful who they choose. Some kids could provide evidence, but if they're too young and the counselor too demanding, they won't do it. Such individuals who won't believe could also "diagnose" it as another problem.

"... 23 percent believed!"

How many people were polled? Were they polled across the country, or from one geographical area?

"Also, the law of cause and effect goes much deeper than your story suggests. The original definition, and intention behind karma, Karmic law, or Karman simply means, cause and consequence."

Oh, I don't think it's simplistic at all, when understood as you've explained it. I think it's extremely simplistic, however, when many people in the mainstream explain or subscribe to it. They think it's an eye for an eye exactly, that what goes around comes around, that if you burned someone to death in a former life, you'll get it back measure for measure. That IS simplistic. I think God is far more imaginative (or at least more merciful) than that.

"So another words IF you remember or not - IT STILL AFFECTS YOU"

There's a difference between affect and destroy. Most people can live with niggling habits (I'm not trivializing the more serious, self destructive habits that some people pull with them into another life. Those are a different matter). Some (SOME) can get over their fears or at least work around them without knowing their cause. In those cases, the risks of knowing outweigh the risks of not knowing, in my opinion. You COULD discover that your fear of loud noises stems from the fact that you were say, a factory worker killed in an industrial accident which involved an explosion, after which you would maybe set the fear aside. You could ALSO find out that that same fear stems from accidentally being killed by the hand grenade that you had just tossed into a ditch full of civilians, too. Reincarnation and memory, like just about everything else, is a double edged sword. Some things are better left alone.

"Each individual is unique, each individual sets his own way, by way of his/her thoughts, feelings and emotions. Another words, consciousness creates."

If you're saying that we choose our lives, than that is one school of thought. I've always thought of choice as a decision between two options of which an individual is aware, though. If you're aware of the options, and know how they'll work on their life, than why would anyone reincarnate at all? If we already KNOW what we're here to learn, than what is the point of being here?

"Did you by chance read my post on what Jesus said about children who do not forget?"

No, could you please post a link to it.
 
HI Again,

I am running out the door and will have to come back to your post later.

I personally like to research ancient texts from various religions as well as the newest scientific findings. It helps me to weave together an extended understanding. Beyond personal experience.


Also you might want to look through the FAQ section for varying view points.

------------------
Love,
Deborah

Lifes experiences weave a tapestry of knowledge
 
HI Again,

Thanks for being patient. When the poll was taken, it included the entire US. How many people were in the poll? I have never been good at math! LOLOL... If 166 million took part then 23 percent is 38 million I believe. But if that isn't right than I don't know.

I do know that the poll was the subject of a book by George Gallop, Jr. called "Adventures in Immortality," and the Gallop Organization describes the census as the most comprehensive survey on beliefs and the afterlife ever taken.

I have tons of posts on this board regarding the concept that consciousness creates. I am more from the school of thought that what we hold in consciousness we ourselves create...energy attracts like energy -- fear, guilt, shame, negativity is due to repeat itself if the soul does not make internal CHANGES. The choice lies in making internal changes in order to create differently, in order to create positively.

The "planning mode" doesn't work so well for me...the free will -- the free choice lies in our actions and reactions. Our thoughts, emotions and feelings CREATE! The "options" are endless.

If you read the Jesus thread - you'll see a wonderful quote (second to last post) about why we reincarnate, by a Rabbi. He makes a wonderful suggestion regarding "what the point is."

Have a great day!

------------------
Love,
Deborah

Lifes experiences weave a tapestry of knowledge




[This message has been edited by Deborah (edited 03-30-2001).]
 
Schuldige said:
Catseye,
Such individuals might NOT see this new life as an opportunity to be children again, especially if they saw the entire endeavor as pointless. I’m not talking about children who are kids first, but who happen to have some specific memories that fade over time, but about people like Shanti Devi, for whom the present life is just a continuation of the past. They simply pick up where they left off, exhibiting xenoglossy and retaining some visages of the ability over time. Of course, such kids would eventually lose their native tongues, as many people do when they spend a significant portion of their lives totally immersed in another language. The point though, is that they could still remember the grammatical rules and the simplest visages of their former language even into adulthood.
This is an old story, but some of the newbies may not be aware of her story.


http://theunexplainedmysteries.com/Reincarnation-of-Shanti-Devi.html


Shanti Devi


In the 1930s when the idea of successive lives was not shared by the educated elite, the case of a 9-year-old girl Shanti Devi of Delhi attracted much public attention throughout India and soon its reports travelled far and wide in the entire world (Rawat, 1997). For the first time in history, a committee of fifteen persons, including journalists, was constituted to investigate the veracity of the statements made by the girl, claiming to be a Chouban (member of the Choubey family) of Mathura in her past life. Mathura, a town 145 kilometers from Delhi, never visited by the girl or her parents. Spiritualists and rationalists, scientists and laymen visited Delhi and Mathura either to investigate dispassionately or to support their religious beliefs or to entirely expose what they saw as a hoax. One such critic, Sture Lönnerstrand, came all the way down from Sweden to expose the ‘fake’ case. After completing his investigations he issued the statement: ‘This is the only fully explained and proven case of reincarnation there has ever been.” (Hunt, 1971.)


Shanti Devi was born in a middle class family of Delhi on December 11, 1926. She was just like any other ordinary girl, excepting that till the age of four she did not speak much. From the age of four, when she started speaking, she ceased to be an ordinary girl and her behaviour changed a lot. She started talking about her ‘husband’ and ‘children’. She would repeatedly describe her home and her husband’s shop at Mathura. She said she was a Chouban (member of the Choubey family) of Mathura and her name was Lugdi. She would talk of the food and clothing she enjoyed in a former life. Her parents ignored her, but she persisted. Her parents got puzzled but she insisted on a visit to Mathura. For five years her parents tried to distract her mind but to no avail. At last, a sympathetic granduncle came to her aid. He asked her to give him the name and address of her ‘husband’ at Mathura. A friend, Lala Kishan Chand, wrote a letter to the address given by the girl. Soon a reply came, attesting that the statements of the girl were substantially correct. It was suggested that a relation of Choube Kedar Nath, Pt. (Pundit) Kanji Mal of Delhi might be allowed to interview the girl. An interview was accordingly arranged. Shanti Devi is reported to have correctly recognized Pt. Kanji Mal as the younger cousin of her alleged husband. She gave convincing answers to the questions put to her by Pt. Kanji Mal. “After this conversation”, he wrote, “I was convinced that the girl was really my own relation, now personating in another body.” On November 13, 1935, Kedar Nath Choubey, along with his third wife (he had one prior to Lugdi) went to Shanti Devi’s house in Delhi. Shanti Devi recognized her husband and expressed motherly affection towards her son Nitlal who was now her elder. She burst into tears and sobbed for about an hour. Late at night Kedar Nath Choubey took Shanti Devi in a separate room, and put her some intimate questions. He was satisfied by her answers and moved to tears.


Shanti Devi continued insisting on a visit to Mathura. She added many more details about her house and other events related to her former life. On November 24, 1935, she was taken to Mathura by the committee of fifteen eminent persons appointed on the advice of Mahatma Gandhi to investigate the veracity of the claim made by the girl. She was: “kept under close observation and all her movements and remarks were carefully noted” by the committee. Shanti Devi is reported to have recognized a number of persons, answered all the queries put to her and spotted out the significant places connected with her past life.
 
Never forgetting...


Liebe/Lieber Schuldige,


The name you have chosen for this forum has touched my soul...Like many here I believe free will is a gift, what we do with it is our gift back to the One. I also believe in the soul realm there is no "good" or "bad", just experience...and I strongly believe that children remembering past lives do so more in a matter-of-fact way, as I saw in my own child. As for myself, I have "total recall" of my last life, being murdered, leaving behind a small daughter (whose name I remember ) who is still alive today. I have had these memories of my murder from childhood on, but in this life feel no hate for the person who murdered me. On the other hand, if one would have "total recall" of terrible things that one had done to others, then the "guilt" may be unbareable...and learning to forgive onesself may not come easy. Let me say again...I have no hate for the person who killed me in my last life. This person is still alive today, and because the murder looked like an accident, it was never brought to justice. With my knowledge, I could change that...but I am missing the hate and any feeling of revenge. I was not born in this life with hate or fear even though my memories as a child were very clear. I think that this is the same with "most" children...there will always be an exception, but I think this is a general rule.
 
I see this is a old topic, but it is a good question!

Schuldige said:
Many of the people on this board say that children usually only discuss past life memories between 2-7 years, but what do you suppose happens to a child who never forgets?
I started remembering my some of my past lives when I was very little. People do tend to say children start forgetting their memories around the age of 7. I didn't, and neither did my brother. We never lost the memories, and only gained new memories & insights as we got older.


Since it happened to me, I can say - I don't think it is a bad thing. Yes, you will find that those children who don't forget more...Mature. More in touch with what's really important in the big picture. Some have strong fears/phobias and other troubles that come with the memories - but acknowledging the past can help to heal it. Ignore it, and you have the fears without knowing why.


Just my opinion! :)
 
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