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Memories of Hans Bothmann

Laurasia

Laurasia

Senior Registered
I've decided to start a thread containing the various recollections & such that I have gathered concerning this lifetime. (I have folders for each lifetime that I have recalled & Hans' is the largest by far. ;)) Given the nature of Hans' lifetime, some of the things posted in this thread may be disturbing for some to read - especially if a person has a past life from "the other side of the war". (Please note that I do not now share any prejudices that are reflected within these recollections.) I have found though that sharing such memories, even when they are difficult to speak about, can be very beneficial for souls from either side of the war. I certainly hope that is the case here.

I would like to start with experiences that I had throughout childhood before I became aware of my lifetime as Hans...

When I was younger I had many unrecognized hints towards a past life as a Nazi. To begin with, when a child, I wanted to join the military more than anything. I was very ambitious in this regard though. I didn't merely want to join the Air Force like my father or the Army - I wanted to be a high-ranking Marine, as I felt that they were the elite & had the strictest training. I would actually watch portrayals of hard drill sergeants & be filled with a yearning to impress such a superior with my dedication & persistence. I retained a penchant for the military for many years even without any encouragement from my veteran father. I was always eager to hear about &/or see my fathers' memories/memorabilia from his service time in the Vietnam War - even though he didn't care to speak of it often. However I wasn't really interested in the Vietnam War or its politics, just what military life & combat were like.

I have always loved anything German or from the area & have always wanted to visit the country. I absolutely adore the language & have been attempting to teach it to myself for years. (Much to my dismay, becoming fluent in it still eludes me.) I am absolutely thrilled whenever I meet or am able to see/converse with people from the area & actually feel sadness & disappointment about not being German myself. As crazy as this sounds, Germans seem superior to me...harder, more centered & disciplined with obvious goals.

I have always been drawn to art & artists (mostly musical & cinematic) that have a more miltary-like essence to them. Especially when that essence resembles the Third Reich.

As a teenager I often would go to collectible shows & spend a great deal of time at one particular vendor that exclusively sold WWII memorablia - especially Nazi items. I would hover over the medals. He also had an authentic Nazi swastika armband that I toyed with the notion of buying everytime that I went there. I had a very strong urge to wear it, but knew that my parents would have been outraged. I did purchase some Nazi periodicals from the war & a swastika necklace though. As badly as I wanted to, I could never afford any of the Nazi medals or uniform components. One of my prized possessions is a $5 Reichmark that I bought from him though. Not being able to afford a German flag (or find one :P) I drew one up on my own & put it up. I hung the swastika necklace over it. I started to study a bit about the Nazis & bought a copy of "Mein Kampf". While never an "activist" of any sort, I tried to submerge myself with the Nazi ideology. Especially as I aged though, the ideology clashed with my own beliefs. I still held a strong drawing towards the Third Reich - as well as a deep apathy....even though when other cultures nowadays display Nazi-like ideals or actions it disgusts & angers me.
 
The Holocaust Museum


The most striking incident that I had however occured when, at 10 years of age, my 5th grade class tok a field trip to a Holocaust museum. I remember a very sharp sense of irritation, anger, & resentment slowly building as we went through the tour. As a result, I became very cocky, sarcastic & vocal. We came to a part of the tour that described a transoprt to & life within a concentration camp. There was a large wall mural that was a photo of Jewish prisoner that had jumped upon electrical barbed-wire fencing. I snickered. My teacher, thoroughly angered by my behavior throughout the day, asked what I found amusing by such a horrific image. I laughed & said "What a considerate Jew - he saved us a bullet." She went red with anger.


There was a rectangle painted on the floor in front of the mural that my teacher grabbed me by the arm & thrust me into the middle of. She then instructed the rest of the class to squeeze in around me. It was the tightest of fits & she had to keep telling people to stay inside of the lines no matter how uncomfortable. She told us that this was how the Jews were shipped to the camps - unable to move more than shifting, unable to sit, & having to relieve themselves where they stood with everyone else doing the same....sometimes for days. No food, no water. "Imagine the smell," she told us. I just rolled my eyes. She glared at me & asked if I was comfortable. "Not really," I said with sarcasm dripping from my voice. She told me once again to imagine what it would have been like. With a stony, flat voice I stated "It never would have happened to me". She scowled & barked out "Don't be so sure, Jews weren't the only ones that were persecuted & herded like cattle for the slaughter". I glared back hard & more harshly stated again that it never would have happened to me. "How do you know?" she asked. With a wicked smile I hissed "Because I would have been one of the herders". By now my classmates had fallen silent at my rantings.


The next area was a long hall lined with American newspaper accounts of Hitler's & the Nazi Parties actions throughout the war. I became very irate & vocal about the "propoganda" & lack of Nazi papers to show the other sides version of events.


The next stop was a mini-ampitheater that only fit about 10 students at a time. I was with the first group in. They started showing the treatment of Jews & other prisoners. I laughed making comments such as "He shouldn't have looked him in the face", "Shouldn't have complained", etc. Finally, at the end of her rope, my teacher roughly yanked me out & into the hallway. She ranted & lectured in a rage, telling me that the next part of the tour was to speak with a woman who had survived Auschwitz & that she wasn't going to let me in to subject the poor woman to a child full of Nazi hatred. I told her that I would hold my tongue since the woman had actually been there & lost all of her faily in Auschwitz. She only agreed when I said that I would stay in the back with her so that she could yank me out at a moments notice if need be.


I sat with my bestfriend while we waited for the rest of the class to finish watching the film. We were seated by an eternal flame that was there to honor the Jews that were killed during the war. I snorted in disgust & asked my friend "Do you see the Russians whining about it? they lost more than the Jews did." She turned & asked what was wrong with me today. I scowled & just said that I didn't know, it just bothered me.


We finally went in & listened to the woman's story. It was very emotional & she cried numerous times while telling it. I never cried, I just listened. Afterwards there was a one-on-one session with the woman & the students, but my teacher refused to let me stay for it. Instead she escorted me out to the bus & told the woman that I wasn't feeling well. Everyone was mad at me. My friend & teacher kept lecturing me, but I just tuned them out. My friend, who had spoken privately with the survivor, said that maybe I should have spoken with her because she was a very nice woman. I said, "I'm sure that she was. I had never said anything different about her". She asked how I could stay so cold & indifferent about it if I knew that. I just shrugged & said "She was a Jew in Nazi Germany. That's what happened to them."
 
The smell of guilt?


I have always had a terrible aversion & sensitivity to the smell of gas & exhaust fumes. I would sometimes sit in the backseat so physically sick that I would beg my father to stop the car & check for a gas leak, because I could smell the exhaust & knew that it was getting into the car. He would get angry & tell me that there was no way that I could possibly smell the exhaust. I am still very sensitive to the smell of exhuast fumes & become extremely nauseous as soon as they hit me - though now they are prone to through me into recollections as well as making me sick.
 
HI Laurasia,


I am interested in hearing if there has been a process of healing in your life now.
 
Hello Laurasia


I second Deborah's thoughts. The events you describe pertaining to your present life must have been deeply emotional. The resentment and anger that you felt during the field trip would be, IMO, rather staggering for a ten year old. As I read your post, I wonder how you lived those emotions as a child, once the episode itself was over.


Do you feel that these situations and emotions have helped you to reach effective healing? That is, accepting whom you were, feelings you have had, and moving on as the different person you are now?


Thank you for sharing!
 
Laurasia, Wow! Thanks so much for sharing. Now I also am wondering and share Deborah's thoughts as concerning healing in this present life.


Really Interesting!


In reading your story, this brings to my mind this person that I remember when I was a kid. There was this other kid who was into all things as concerning Nazi Germany with even wearing Nazi helmets at every opportunity he could. At that time I could never understand him.
 
Laurasia, it was very brave of you to post your story. Especially knowing that there are other forum members that lived through that time. WWII is an emotionally charged subject, and is not always easy to talk about. Your willingness to step forward and share your experience shows your desire to heal spiritually and move on.


I, too, have always been interested in German culture. I have taken classes in the German language. And I'm very familiar with the Nazi regime. I know about their history and I know who all the key players were. I certainly don't approve of what they did, but at the same time, I've always been amazed at what they accomplished in just a few years. I, too, was a German during WWII. I wasn't involved in the death camps, but I'm not proud of being on "that" side of the war.


The past cannot be undone. It's doesn't matter where you've been. What matters is where you are going. The whole point of reincarnation is spiritual growth. That includes forgiving others and forgiving ourselves. I we must acknowledge that past, take from it what lessons there are to learn, and move forward to a better future. The question you must ask yourself is what did you learn from your life as Hans Bothmann?
 
You shared your childhood story in a very compelling way. As a childcare provider, I can understand your teacher's horror. And I can also understand how overwhelming those emotions must have been for a young child.


How have you been able to heal and move past it since you were a child? What techniques have been successful for you? Have you ever been able to look upon War memorabilia now with a sense of compassion for the people who suffered?


I'd love to hear your thoughts.
 
Wow, let me see if I can get to what everyone has asked & commented on....


Firstly, yes I do sympathize with the people that suffered under the Nazi Regime. (Jews were not the only group that was targeted after all.)


The healing process is an on-going thing that actually took some time to come around. My first actual recollections of my lifetime as Hans didn't start until about 3 years ago. Though once they started they really kept coming. Through "getting to know Hans" I have been able to recognize many of his own patterns within my behaviors/personaility. Such as my extreme paranoia of being seperated from my girlfriend when we were younger. We've been together for over 15 years & when we were teenagers I would experience extreme agitation & depression when we were seperated. The severity of the agitation & depression has lessened now, but I still do not like to be seperated from her for very long.


I also have certain pet-peeves that I suspect are because of Hans' influence, such as my clothing needing to be folded in a certain way.


Living with the emotions as a child was a bit strange, because I didn't know where they were coming from or why they were there. There was a lot of stuff that I had to live through when I was younger that didn't make living with such out-of-place feelings any better or less confusing, so I am still trying to work through all of that at this stage. I can safely say that I've survived quite a bit of karma (or simply experiencing "the other side of the coin") within this lifetime that I feel directly corresponds to Hans' lifetime. Those situations have made me a much stronger, more compassionate person with a calling to assist others in dealing with their own similar traumas. I really don't know if I should, or truly want to, get into those certain situations right now though.


Truthseeker, I wanted to thank you for your words. That was really a good way of putting it. While not agreeing with everything that the Nazi Regime did I still do feel a sense of amazement, & even pride, at what they were able to accomplish in such a short time span. I think what makes statements such as that hard for some people to hear from a reincarnated Nazi is that they automatically assume that we are referring to the murders that were committed, when we in fact are not referring to that at all. Not all of us were monsters. We were men with families, plans, & dreams of our own. We were swept up in the fervor & signed up for things that we didn't really understand in the beginning. And, for many of us, by the time that we realized exactly what we had signed up for it was too late to get out.


One of the things that has helped me greatly in being connected so closely to Hans & his thoughts/feelings has been my ability to recall other lifetimes in which I played a very different role from Hans'. It has helped me to realize that Hans does not make up the bulk of my being, there are parts of me that are & were completely contradictory to Hans' worst aspects. Though having the knowledge of being two completely different types of people does come with its own obstacles as well. ;) I've been having success recently in reconciling the two.
 
My first couple of recollections of Hans


The very first recollection of Hans that I had was very unexpected & spontaneous (as many of my recollections are). It was in December of 2006 & happened while listened to my CD player during a car trip.


I can honestly say that I nearly threw up when the visions & feelings from this recollection came up. Agitation (such as what happened at the Holocaust museum) I had experienced before, but I had never been faced with such monstruous indifference towards others from within myself before this. I won't get too much into the details due to the graphic nature of the recollection, but I believe that it was from during my training period within the camp system. I was sick for a while after having this recollection. I immediately recognized it as a past life recollection & that answered quite a few answers from my childhood (obviously). However, it also left me with many more questions. How could I have been such a monster? (I had yet to recall Hans' humanity.) How could I abuse people in such a way? I would love to be left alone with someone such as that person for just 5 minutes in this life...I would show them just how much it hurts to be abused in such a way.


************


This is a copy of my second recollection of Hans....


I remember that my father died while out of the country. (Perhaps he was looking for employment.) I believe that I was between the ages of 10 & 13 at the time. (Subsequent research confirmed that Hans was born in 1911, so this would be between 1921 & 1924.)


We weren't wealthy to begin with & without my father's income my mother didn't know what to do. Begrudgingly, she decided to enroll me in an academy that actually would provide for her in axchange for my enrollment - which turned out to be a Nazi organization. (I never felt that this was the Hitler Youth however & years later that feeling was confirmed when records showed that Hans had not joined the HJ until serving in it for one year in 1932 before joining the SS in 1933 - at the age of 22.)


From then on I didn't see much of my mother anymore, especially during my academic years. Mostly just during holidays. We grew apart to a great degree as I fell into the way of life & teachings of the academy.


After all of my training through this organization & the HJ I joined the SS, which my mother was against due to her disapproval of the Nazi Party.
 
Laurasia said:
Truthseeker, I wanted to thank you for your words. That was really a good way of putting it. While not agreeing with everything that the Nazi Regime did I still do feel a sense of amazement, & even pride, at what they were able to accomplish in such a short time span. I think what makes statements such as that hard for some people to hear from a reincarnated Nazi is that they automatically assume that we are referring to the murders that were committed, when we in fact are not referring to that at all.
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Laurasia, would you be so good as to tell us exactly what achievements or accomplishments you and Truthseeker are referring to?


Thank you.


Angelcat :)
 
Angelcat,


During the 1920's Hitler was sitting in a jail cell and Germany was in a terrible depression after the Treaty of Versailles. Under the Third Reich, not only was Germany stronger than it ever was before, but they conquered most of Europe. I'm not trying to say that the Third Reich was cool or what they did was a good thing. I think we can all agree what they did was horrible. Please don't mistake amazement for admiration. I can watch coverage of a disaster on TV and be amazed at what I'm seeing. It doesn't mean I like it.
 
Truthseeker said:
Angelcat, During the 1920's Hitler was sitting in a jail cell.
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It's a great pity that he wasn't locked up permanently. :thumbsup:

Under the Third Reich, not only was Germany stronger than it ever was before, but they conquered most of Europe. I'm not trying to say that the Third Reich was cool or what they did was a good thing. I think we can all agree what they did was horrible. Please don't mistake amazement for admiration. I can watch coverage of a disaster on TV and be amazed at what I'm seeing. It doesn't mean I like it.
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Truthseeker, I am sorry but I am truly at a loss to understand how or why you think that one nation 'conquering' others is amazing or an accomplishment. Besides which, the Nazis didn't actually conquer anyone. I say that partly because the countries they successfully invaded were either small, had poor defences or were Nazi sympathizers, and partly because within a mere six years they brought complete destruction upon their own country and a sense of national shame that many innocent Germans still feel to this day. Under the Third Reich, Germany ended up a burnt out wreck with most Germans in worse poverty than during the Depression.


They exhibited the ultimate in foolishness; that of believing themselves to be a master race and superior to most of the rest of humanity. Like so many lemmings they blindly followed a madman over the cliff and that is what amazes me. They also exhibited the greatest cowardice imaginable, that of slaughtering around eleven million unarmed, non-aggressors, including women, children, the elderly and disabled. A further example of their cowardice became apparent as the end of the war approached when many either fled or committed suicide rather than face the consequences of their actions.


Laurasia says, "Not all of us were monsters. We were men with families, plans, & dreams of our own."


Yes, every Christmas, many of those nice Nazi family men stood around a piano singing carols with their wives and children and then blithely went back to doing what they had been doing before Christmas: abusing and killing innocent people.


She also says. "We were swept up in the fervor & signed up for things that we didn't really understand in the beginning. And, for many of us, by the time that we realized exactly what we had signed up for it was too late to get out."


In 1945, when the Russian army was advancing toward Chelmno, Bothmann and other SS murdered the remaining prisoners by either shooting them in the head or burning them alive in the prison building. Bothmann also had all documents belonging to the camp destroyed. I figure both he and they understood exactly what they were doing. If they had had an ounce of integrity or remorse they would have set the remaining prisoners free and given themselves up.


You say "The whole point of reincarnation is spiritual growth. That includes forgiving others and forgiving ourselves. I we must acknowledge that past, take from it what lessons there are to learn, and move forward to a better future." I agree and I too believe in forgiveness. However, I rather think it is easier for people such as yourself to 'move forward to a better future' than the numerous victims, both survivors and reincarnated, who are still haunted by memories of atrocities perpetrated upon them and their loved ones that, in some cases, beggar belief.


Angelcat :)
 
Angelcat said:
It's a great pity that he wasn't locked up permanently. :thumbsup:
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I agree with you.


I'm not interested in arguing, and I'm not going to defend the Nazis. This forum is not the time or place. I don't like talking about it, and I don't want to be associated with it. I know this is a sensitive subject, and I in no way condone what they did.


You say it's harder for the victims to move on and you're right. I, too, know what it's like to be a victim. WWII isn't the only atrosity to happen in human existance.
 
Nicely put Angelcat.


I also wonder how viewing the power of the Third Reich can be seen as anything but unamazing. I guess my definition of amazing is not yours. I know the definition is " causing great wonder" but wonder to me has an element of having the hand of God behind it.. And when it comes to people partaking in such evil that experience is not anywhere near to wanting the hand of God near them .


Death does not erase the pain nor the responsibility and facing the consequences of one's actions > I hope those who have returned from taking part of that machinary are following the right course .That course does not need to be spiritual , just humane.
 
Hi Gang,


I feel compelled to add my two cents here.


We've all done things we're not proud of - in past lives and in our present lives. This issue is definitely a delicate one - but I think it's important to remember that all souls deserve understanding and forgiveness - and the opportunity to heal - both from the hurts they've inflicted on others, and from the hurts inflicted upon them.


When people share stories of their past lives - both as a victim and a perpetrator, it allows us to glimpse both sides of an issue. And hopefully we can learn from people's histories and not repeat those atrocities. Hate is never the answer - love and forgiveness changes the world.


Aili
 
soulfreindly said:
I guess my definition of amazing is not yours. I know the definition is " causing great wonder" but wonder to me has an element of having the hand of God behind it..
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I apologize if my choice of words was poor, and I'm sorry if the point of this thread has been lost because I made a foolish statement.
 
Thank you Truthseeker - for your compassion and non-defensive response. I look forward to reading about your past life experiences -- when and if you choose to share them.


Laurasia - best wishes on your journey. May it be filled with compassion, forgiveness...and Peace.


I think it was Quan Yin (Kwan Yin) that said she would not go into Nirvana until All had done so. If only we all could be so wise. )*(
 
Hello all


I find this thread a most valuable one, for those involved in the particular situation it reflects upon - the Holocaust - but also for all of us who have not (or can't remember) lived through it.


Much has been written already here. I thank you Deborah, for your most wise words:

Deborah wrote:
I think it was Quan Yin (Kwan Yin) that said she would not go into Nirvana until All had done so. If only we all could be so wise.
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I confess I hesitated on posting here myself, but have decided to do so, because I would like to share my own reflections with you. Please bear with me.


There is a burden to be carried both for victim and the perpetrator. The victim carries the scarring, the fear, the trauma of having been made to face horrible, terrible agressions (in this particular case). Those scars lie deep within our souls, for sure, and letting go (as soulfriendly so wisely put it in her own thread hug2.gif) is a long and heavy task. But the results can be nothing short of miraculous, IMO.


The perpetrator carries a burden that, as I see it, is no less dour. When the perpetrator realises what he has inflicted upon others, he begins (again, in my opinion) his/her path towards growth and healing, but such path will probably begin with the burden of guilt.


I remember things from past lives that have hurt my soul so deeply, and I still feel the pain now. And that pain comes from guilt. It's a devastating, crippling feeling. It can ravage your whole soul if you chose (yes, I believe it to be a choice) to forever dwell in it. I remember seeing a baby child of mine die of infection that resulted from having his whole little body scalded. This was the result of an intrincate series of events in which I had major responsibility. IT WAS MY FAULT.


I also remember seeing my own wonderful girl child suffer unspeakable terrors at the hands of the Inquisition, and I could do nothing to stop it. I remember being devastated by seeing how horrid a human being could be, how repentless, how cruel.


I know how small scale this may sound when compared to something as big as the holocaust, but I also believe that there were as many "private" Holocausts as there were victims and perpetrators. Each person's pain - is their own.


We are here in this Forum because we remember. I think remembering (traumatic events) can be both a blessing and curse. For my part, I hope and strive towards healing, and think of my memories as a blessing, because they are a very important tool - the tool that now allows me to share these thoughts with you. That, in itself, is of great help to me.


I would also like to thank you all - Laurasia, for your braveness in stepping forward with your memories, Soulfriendly and Angelcat, for speaking out your feelings of grief and compassion, and Truthseeker, for being a voice of kindness for all of us.


I thank you too dearest Aili, for such a beautiful, simple truth:

Ailish wrote:
Hate is never the answer - love and forgiveness changes the world.
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Indeed. :)


I pray for Light to enfold us all, I pray for healing and growth. May our lives be filled with Love and Compassion. Forgiveness (of others and of oneself) will surely stem from there.


Thank you for listening, and I'm sorry if I took this awfully long post of mine into (slightly) off topic matters.


Blessings,


Welsh
 
Truthseeker said:
I apologize if my choice of words was poor, and I'm sorry if the point of this thread has been lost because I made a foolish statement.
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Hello Truthseeker.. Yeh poor choice. And the apology , now that is empowering. :thumbsup: Moving on....... time to reflect..... ;)
 
Truthseeker, I sincerely apologise if I came across as trying to argue with you or have upset you in any way. Also, upon reading my own post again this morning I realised that some of the content could be construed as a personal attack upon both you and Laurasia, which was not intended either.


Unfortunately, anything to do with the Nazis pushes my buttons big time. I even get physical symptoms such as shoulder pain and palpitations when I read anything about them. I should have stayed away from this thread but because the title included the words 'Nazi Commandant' and 'Death Camp' it triggered a powerful emotional response in me. Some of the content of this thread has thrown me completely off balance and I know from past experience it will take days before I regain my equilibrium and feel like my normal self again.


My personal feeling is that if someone who remembers being a Nazi wants to share how uncomfortable they now feel about that and discuss their healing journey, then fine. Such can be constructive and healing for all. But if doing so involves giving examples of their past life prejudices and their past/present love of everything German and Nazi, then, with respect, I think they should consider the stress that may be caused to those who were victims and are trying to heal their own issues.


Some time ago, I posted here some memories of WWII and since then I have remembered more via meditation. I know that there is probably a lot more buried beneath the powerful sense of aversion to remembering that lifetime that I experience whenever I even think about it. I have been meaning to undergo regression with a therapist for a long time. The trouble is I am afraid to find out the full extent of it all in case it gives me an even greater 'Pandora's box' to deal with. It's as if the person I was then, (I believe my name was Katazina and I was a Polish Catholic) and the experiences that I had at the hands of the Nazis feel like a separate part of myself that I cannot manage to resolve or integrate with the rest of myself. I am not sure if that makes any sense, but I don't know how else to explain it.


In view of one particular common thread that runs through a number of my past lives, I suspect that I chose to be among the victims of the Nazis in order to continue to try and learn forgiveness of even the most heinous of crimes. Unfortunately, I haven't yet succeeded. I had the same problem with forgiving brutality back in the time of the Romans. I do wonder if some of them reincarnated as Nazis. Certainly both had an obsession with worldly power and control.


Anyhow, I absolutely know that the greatest power is that of unconditional love. I always try to love everyone who comes here in that way. I am sorry that I sometimes fail.


"May there be peace on Earth and let it begin with me."


Angelcat :)
 
Hi Angelcat,


Your post was heart felt. Thank you for your compassion and honest approach. hug2.gif)*($P$.
 
I have a question for Laurasia: Do you remember Hans Bothmann's telephone numbers? Being that he was a prominent person (in a bad way) he obviously had a telephone.


Look, not counting college dormitories, I have lived in 3 different places in the past 40 years. I remember the telephone numbers of all 3 places. I really am serious about the question. Do you remember any of Hans Bothmann's telephone numbers?


Respectfully,


Andrewx
 
Hi Angelcat


I found it was important in my healing from heinous abuse to realise to forgive is for my benefit and that that takes time.. I find I cannot say too much to people with past lives as Nazis. I figure it is too close a time for real change . I find too much is sometimes expected . Forgiveness is not just a word and as with any feelings it takes time to go through the process. Forgiveness comes in time... Sometimes I have even found that with not expecting myself to forgive, I have gotten closer to it.


It is the same as with being a parent. You may not understand the action of your contrary teenager but you go with the flow.. say to yourself that down the line you will understand and just continue on with being the best person you can be.


Maybe I pick that example because as with children , our past lives reflect some part of ourselves that is inching towards awareness and personal growth. And actually being able to take on that challenge takes alot of work.
 
I have been wanting to post on this thread, but felt unsure what to say. I have read Laurasia's account of the reaction he had as a child to the Holocaust exhibit in the museum before on another thread.


Though I can understand reading it has upset Angelcat and Soulfriendly I found that tale extremely insightful. Here is why:


I post on another forum, which is theoretically a financial forum, but since most of us on it incline to believe to some extent that the Western economy is a process of collapse there is a strong current of 'survivalism' on it too, as well as much political talk. The owners of this site (an American site) see freedom of speech as an absolutely enshrined right. Unfortunately this leads to abuses and people with very much less than 'politically correct' attitudes are drawn to it.


There have been frequent episodes of 'Holocaust Denial' on this other site. If more moderate posters, including posters who have had relatives who in some way experienced this,protest they are shouted down. When I first read Laurasia's museum account on here the light switched on for me that these idiots denying the Holocaust, and shouting down others on the financial site are p/l Nazis. Unconscious ones, no doubt.


If it was possible to link individual threads from this site, I would post Laurasia's threads on that forum and say 'Look you switched off dummies, READ and understand.' Unfortunately a link links the whole forum, not a thread, and their attention span prohibits much chance of them delving about to find the right threads.


The very sobering fact is that these scary posters on the financial site, all consider themselves to be patriotic, red blooded Americans. (There may be a few from other nations as well, but most are Americans.)


If even one or two such unconscious p/l Nazi people happen across what Laurasia has written and go 'OH MY GOD, I recognize those symptoms in myself, I have those sentiments too. Why do I deny the Holocaust so strongly, on and on, like a broken record?' then a great service is done.


While I understand Angelcat's statement about Laurasia's examples of his p/l prejudices being disturbing to her, I do feel for this reason, for the sake of general healing it is very valid that he posted about them.


As to Laurasia's attraction to Nazi mementos in his youth. That too is natural. It as we all know on here, is an indicator of a p/l to be attracted to items from the period in some deep and unconscious way.


I was a p/l German in WW1, and I find the Nazi's deeply disturbing, consider they ruined my p/l country, and thank God I did not, in that live, live to see it. I imagine anyone who has a p/l as even the most ordinary soldier or airman or sailor in Nazi Germany must be deeply conflicted by the fact that they served that dreadful regime.


As far as WW2 goes, though it by no means excuses the Nazis, it should also be remembered that the Russian Army, at points, acted like complete animals towards the German civilian population, especially to women, when they over ran East Prussia and eventually Berlin. Russian soldiers are notorious drinkers and Stalin had a policy of turning a blind eye to rape.
 
and Stalin had a policy of turning a blind eye to rape.
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Stalin had 'a policy of turning a blind eye' to many horrific things :( ;)


I think your theory of holocaust deniers being reincarnated nazis is interesting. They don't even have to have been members of the party, prominent generals or commanders. As far as I understand, people didn't know what was going on. Surely, they knew something was going on since they saw neighbours and friends being deported, but they had no idea what happened to them afterwards. Why? Possibly because it's impossible to imagine your system acting so cruel.


I think it's important to understand that this was a regime, who systematically brainwashed people, adults as well as children. The Third Reich was not unique in doing this; the Soviet Union-regime worked pretty much the same way. To this day many Russians refuse to believe that Stalin knew about the Gulags, although historians show time after time that he signed many deportation sentences.


The human mind is at once fragile and powerful. I, for one, think that it is equally important to hear the perpetrator's story - with all due respect to the victims, but in my opinion we need to hear it, however horrible, because through that we can learn how to prevent it in the future. We're still not able to prevent these terrible things from happening. Why?


Laurasia, I think it is very brave of you to come forward with such a controversial past life. Have you read Phoenix's memories of Heinrich Himmler?
 
Well I knew that there was going to be some discomfort within this thread. This topic always does bring with it varying levels of discomfort for all involved - regardless of the side that they were on. However, I've often seen & personally experienced such discomfort lead to great strides towards healing.


I decided to post my actual recollections because firstly, this is a forum for us to share our recollections & not just our reflections on them; & secondly, because I feel that it does not do anyone (victim or perpetrator) any good to deliberately try & avoid such recollections.


Understand that I don't wish to deliberately cause others pain. I wish for this to be a catalyst for healing & understanding. However, without wanting to sound uncaring, no one is forcing anyone else to read my actual recollections. I can understand that my recollections can be too much for some people to read, especially if they are not in a place where they are ready for such honesty regarding what happened. I certainly don't want anyone to make themselves sick by reading them. If anyone is aware that they are not ready to be confronted with such a lifetime then please do not deliberately expose yourself to them. I do plan to put warnings on the ones that I feel could be particularly disturbing for others, as well as editing out the truly graphic details in some.


I haven't posted this thread with the purpose of simply causing grief or discomfort within others. I have posted it with the purpose of fascilitating healing for all involved - victims & perpetrators alike. As uncomfortable as all of this is to discuss it needs to be...so that it never happens again. I know that it is hard to hear or reconcile the fact that we were normal men for some people, but that is the very reason that this topic needs to be discussed so intimately. Normal men committed these acts. And, if simply ignored & swept under the rug because it is too uncomfortable to discuss, normal men will once again commit these acts. That is why it needs to be discussed.


And yes Sunniva, I have read Phoenix's posts on her past life as SS Reichsfuhrer Himmler. In fact, she has been quite an inspiration & source of healing for myself in regards to this particular lifetime. :)


Also, just so everyone is aware, I am a woman in this lifetime. ;)


Sincerely,


Laurasia
 
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