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Multiple claimants to the one life.

I don't see how it would result in serious trouble by challenging a claim though TABA. Reincarnation is an online community for me so it would be just words on a page.
 
Jim78 said:
I don't see how it would result in serious trouble by challenging a claim though TABA. Reincarnation is an online community for me so it would be just words on a page.
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Agreed though what I said is more general than to specific cases or situations, as for false claims most people don't believe them anyway especially when there is a strong vibe for which normal people naturally feel some aversion. I just sit and watch as the attention seekers either burn themselves out or be made fools either through some circumstance let alone people start pointing out the obvious. As for online communities attention seekers will always be a problem till the very end.
 
Yea but the way I see it TABA is that every other claim to one of my lives is a false claim. I don't like then talking crap about me.
 
Jim78 said:
Yea but the way I see it TABA is that every other claim to one of my lives is a false claim. I don't like then talking crap about me.
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Agreed and I don't like it when people talk crap in general but it is just another thing about life that just sucks and is something we all got to live with. Just remember that fools will always be fools and it never helps to drop down to their level regardless.
 
But it helps to show fools up for what they are. I'm wouldn't be dropping to their level. I would be dealing with them from my level.
 
Why would it not work for more than two lives Ken?

I see it like this:


Death is like a hall of mirrors. We can see aspects of ourselves, our complete selves, every incarnation, anything we want IMO.
 
I find this thread interesting with all of the fuss being made of multiple claims that there spiritual selves occupied the same physical entity.. The problem I see is.... they all believe they are right when the fact is nobody can prove in a proper manner they are right... no matter who strongly they believe they are right... They may think they prove to themselves.... and that is all that matters... what they believe to be true.. it doesn't matter to anyone else if they are right or wrong.. why would it?....I have always claimed I have no clues who my spiritual self has occupied in his previous incarnations when in fact I do know some of them
I have no need to share such things because it only matters to me....what I have trouble controlling is something that has carried over for numerous incarnations.. My disdain for the Christian god.. I feel bad that I have given Sea and Sky a bad time over this'... but its in me its a part of me...part of BB my spiritual self...I make this point because I believe there are some things about our spiritual selves that drives us forward to incarnation after incarnation .. That our spiritual selves are not all that concerned about there previous incarnations.. they are always looking to and planning what needs to be done in future incarnations.. which is one of the reasons I see no point in sharing who the previous physical entities were BB my spiritual self has occupied.. different to what is being discussed on this thread.. Perfection takes many forms both good and evil.. its important to remember that
 
Why can't I know what physical bodies I occupied before John?

Others know I was the same bloke, different body and circumstances.

Also that's the thing with remembering. I don't remember being someone else. I remember being me in a different time.

I'm not out to prove things but that doesn't mean I don't know. I know exactly who I've been and I'll destroy anyone else that says otherwise.
 
Jim78 said:
Also that's the thing with remembering. I don't remember being someone else. I remember being me in a different time.
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On point! We are never truly 'someone else', just us in a different era and place. I'm still me, you're still you and all we have ever lived before us is just us if you know what I mean.

Eva x
 
For me it was that my identity was more strong in a past life self as "Anna" before I could feel home in accepting and seeing the same familiarity in Anna as well as a further-back-incarnation as "Laura". I think it was when I was Anna that was all I knew how to be. When I was Laura it was the same with her. When I accepted and knew I was the same it was not with my left-brain-thinking but just feeling. When I accepted my feelings as facts everything came more easier and in opposite of what I first thought I saw things more clear. I think in these days we are so used to trying hard to achieve results, in school and so forth, that one has just forgotten to accept and to listen to one's inner voice. I do feel as if my soul has improved in a lesson where I for instance as "Laura" was either denial, out of shame, or trying to hide that my husband was not the biological father of our later deceased son. I think I was petrified if and for this moment to unravel itself to the degree that it has been a repeated trauma; his reaction (I thought he would kill me or be harsh in his punishment). It was even another trauma as it unravel itself that he had known and most likely shot my ex boyfriend, the biological father, to death (and gotten away with it). In my own life I have always felt with the fathers and blessed DNA, for sure. I have been extremely careful when it concerned my love life. I don't think we are being told what is right or wrong, that is why we are in the dark and trying to feel our way forward and hope it is the right way, but that is only a thought I have of how I think it is. That is why all the mistakes are forgotten about once we do the right thing, they don't matter anymore. The root of us is the same but our way of thinking can be different. Anyway, that is just how I look at it.
 
AlexD said:
For a fpl claimant I would expect to see the same basic essence as the original, maybe with some more spiritual maturity or awareness. But someone completely different in character, not so much.
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How would you know how someone else's essence is like though? We may know the famous face they portray, but how do we know for example how the real Rasputin is like? We're just basing on other people's accounts, what is written in books, but I don't know his essence, I just have my own idea of him.
 
In the world there are many people with the same personality pattern and similar physical characteristics.

Maybe that's why some people feel or believe they are a specific person.

A week ago I was thinking that two or more people could have lived the same life, but I don't know if this is feasible. Actually, I have no idea. I think you're still you, but with a different body and a different idea about things, but well... your essence is still the same, I think.

Personally, I prefer to talk about my past lives as if they were other people, although I know I'm talking about myself.

Internet, books, documentaries and articles about a famous person can help someone think that their circumstances are very similar, which creates empathy and a sense of identification. empathy is very common, so sometimes we feel identified with songs, movies or artists. The difference is that you can't claim to be a person who is alive right now, obviously.

With a keyboard and imagination people can invent things that never happened, that's the problem. I don't judge anyone, so I prefer to be understanding about it.

I know a lot of people who claim to be a person (famous, yes), I don't get angry, but I wish those people would find their real past lives. When you're sure of your past life, it's annoying when someone starts making up situations or lies.

I wanted to be Jim Morrison, because I admire him, but I wasn't him, unfortunately lol. Should I create a story about false reincarnation? Fantasies are pleasurable, but deep down you know it's not true, so... Sometimes there are people who could write wonderful fiction stories, but they waste time and take credibility away from people who are really concerned about their past lives.
 
Believing you are much the sane physical entity incarnation after incarnation is most defiantly connected to multiple claims to famous past lives ,..As I said in my previous post it only matters to those who make such claims...
To believe these things there needs to be some underlying belief in physical reincarnation .. which most if not all experts agree is impossible
If on the other hand you believe yours spiritual self is limited to being only...lets say Billy The Kid ... then that belief would defy all logic for many reasons with one of the most important reasons being that our spiritual selves are not physical they are spiritual void of any form of physical personality ....they have there own spiritual personality .. BB mu spiritual self most certainly has his
Most of the beliefs of these on going physical entities goes back to images of angels gods and ghosts drawn in physical form and acting and speaking in a physical manner..That our spirits are in some way physical..which of course they are not
BB my spiritual self has occupied many different physical entities ..For me to believe what is being posted on this thread then John Tat must be many many different physical entities ... which of course I'm not
The fact is ...all of the physical entities BB my spiritual self has occupied have all died never to return
BB my spiritual self memories are not broken up into different incarnations... there is only one continuous memory with each incarnation something like ... when we visit a family member we stay for a while then we leave with memories of that visit.. that's how it works
 
John Tat said:
For me to believe what is being posted on this thread then John Tat must be many many different physical entities ... which of course I'm not
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I'd say that is correct, John Tat is the fragment of the soul that produces "many different entities..." IMO.
 
Hi Ken its interesting what you said...In my opinion its not possible for the soul/our spiritual selves to be ,many different entities To produce an entity it must already be there... you must be them .. Memory is very different to being that entity .....to remember a family member ...how they were and how they acted does not make us them... spiritual memory is a very big part of who our spiritual selves are.. to say a spiritual memory produces a physical entity they occupied is the same as saying'... remembering how a family member was and acted makes you them
 
John Tat said:
to say a spiritual memory produces a physical entity they occupied is the same as saying'... remembering how a family member was and acted makes you them
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I did not say or imply that - we will just have to agree to disagree about this entire matter - I'll butt-out!
 
John I don't get you. Are you saying there's no such thing as physical reincarnation? As in nobody is being reanimated from the grave? That's obvious. Nobody in this thread ever said that. All people are saying is that's there's a soul energy animating its body until that body dies and that eventually that same soul energy will migrate to another body and on and on.

Whatever your BB is to you, and I'm not sure if its your higher self or possession or whatever, all I know is that the soul that is me currently wears the face, body and name of Jim and previously wore the face, body and name of Mick.

Its not rocket science really. You overcomplicating it IMO.
 
Hi Jim Thanks for the reply.. In my mind...But I could well be wrong... but a lot of what you say for me contradicts itself... You never refer to Collins as Collins its always "I" or"Me"....If a spiritual self occupied Billy The Kid ...what in fact actually happened was a previous incarnation a spiritual self occupied the physical entity Billy The Kid who died and never returned and never will return..then that spirit moved on and incarnated into another physical entity which had no physical connections to Billy The Kid ...So I'm not sure how the "I" and "Me is with Collins and Jim ....unless as I said you believe your spiritual self is actually Collins
Some of your quotes just from this thread
They cannot hope to understand who I am
None of them speak of my tactics psychology and lateral thinking
Who I am intrinsically remains the same
This is only a couple from this thread there are plenty of others from other threads
As I said it is always "I" or "Me".... never Collins
My assumption was and is that Jim sees himself as Collins
That is why I talked about physical reincarnation
I may well be wrong but from your posts that's how I see it

All The Best
 
AlexD said:
Sometimes some traits can be inferred by historical accounts, provided that these are accurate. With some particularly influent people there are enough traces left to get a more or less clear portrait in my opinion.
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It seems like a bit of an oversimplification, people are complex. I' ve read quite a few things I wrote in a past life, and while I can recognize myself in some entries and thoughts and even be amazed and embarrassed by the lack of change between lives, other entries are just "what?". I' ve also been re-reading some things that I wrote when I was 16, and the same, while I' m amazed at some ideas, that changed little over the years, and I was even able to sort of identify philosophical influences from things I hadn't read yet (at least in this life), other entries are just "what?". Can I go as far as to say that I can recognize my essence in those texts? I don't know, maybe some aspects, briefly. But what is my essence, anyway? Sometimes I read old forum posts and barely recognize myself in what I wrote. How can I be able then to identify someone else's essence? specially someone that I only know from their public persona. I can form an idea in my mind of how I think they are, but it may not even correspond to their real self.

AlexD said:
But the very few hints at my personality that I could find in my own research match my own, so I can say that at least for me they were personal validations. There are only a few written words about me, but they sound like things I would do.
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One things are "hints of a personality", another thing is "someone's essence". Hints of a personality are multiple, and easy to find. They are also characteristics that are not necessarily exclusive of one person. At the same time, personality traits, while they could be similar between consecutive lives, go further away in time and they may dilute. Someone's essence, on the contrary, is something particular of a person, that should remain stable throughout their lives. I' m not even sure if there is such thing as an essence to be honest.

AlexD said:
I was lucky to be in direct contact with a couple of souls from my soul group who actually noticed my resemblance with my past incarnations personality wise -they knew me in person back then so they remember what I was like.
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So did I, there were people who recognized me, and I recognized some people. From being on the recognizing end, is very little the information that I can obtain to be able to actually compare personalities, and is mostly how the other person makes you feel more than what they are. And I think I was told something along the lines of being so annoying personality-wise that they knew it had to be me, but that's another story (maybe even actually more than person identified me due to that, thinking about it, although it's something that comes out more in writing than in everyday dealings... and maybe it was also a similar case before?). But anyway, again, is how I made them feel.

AlexD said:
But I noticed some people still claim certain lives even if their personalities are visibly different from the ones described in the original sources.Also, some have the bad habit of filling the gaps with their own imagination, but I digress. I try to stick to the facts when possible.
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I don't think that filling in the gaps with imagination is a desirable practice either, but I don't see an issue with claiming a life with a different personality. Do their memories match? do their memories contain emotion and are validated? If there are still many things I don't know about myself, how can I be able to tell how much someone else changed or not?
 
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Hi John.

You have to remember that outside of a dream I had once that may or may not have been a memory all of my memories of Collins are from waking visions and from his perspective.

I don't think a lack of relation between physical bodies of differing incarnations means anything. We are talking about an soul that can become disincarnate and exist in the life between lives without a physical body after all. I'm just saying that soul energy is me just as Jim is me and Collins is me. In terms of perception there is no real difference....they are all me.

That's the beauty of reincarnation. We don't cease to exist. We just migrate. I draw a line between Collins and myself in terms of the fact that Collins life is done and dusted and Jim's isn't but the only real differences are superficial IMO. The core of who my soul is remains the same.
 
Hi Owl and Alex.

Your right Owl, people are complex, but I think what Alex is saying has some validity. When I first gained memories I generally had only a peripheral awareness of my past lives. I knew some of the myths that had built up around them. For the longest time I couldn't reconcile those myths with my memories.

Yet I'm a detail orientated person and just as I examined the details of my memories to verify whether or not they were ( or could have been ) real I also began to notice through lines, undeniable similarities between various lives.

I remember reading a personality breakdown of my Collins life on a site and a chill ran up my spine. They were describing how I behaved when I was in a conflict setting. The same with Tone. These things have also been verified by my memories.

I've seen details to a smaller degree in my earlier lives because there's less first hand accounts in the historic record and I've not delved as deeply into research on some of my lives as others. These details point to things like earthiness or incandescent rage and such. Traits that I still possess. Traits that were amplified when in a conflict situation...I saw myself in some accounts.

Its also true that just because you have a similar personality to a person that doesn't mean you are that person but I have memories and have met others from my soul group with whom I've struck up comparable relationships in my current life.

I also have similar abilities and ( up until five years ago at least ) possessed a moral outrage and sense of justice that compelled me to act ruthlessly in opposition to perceived wrongs.

I could go on but you get the drift.

I remember being those people and I remember being the same soul but I have also seen from first hand accounts and sometimes even mythos couched accounts that I'm not really that different.

Maybe its just because of my own memories and experiences but if someone claimed to be a 'great' warrior of the past and is now a pacifistic wallflower I would doubt their claim unless they had a very good reason for a complete change in personality. Me personally, I've learned that fighting isn't the way but that hasn't suddenly changed me into a hippy tree hugger. I'm still at war with my nature. I still struggle with the warriors impulses. As Alex says I would expect continuity and recurring themes.

If Neil out of The Young Ones said he had memories of Napoleon I wouldn't really believe him you know? Unless he could illustrate the life that produced so drastic a change.

Situations change, stations in life change, careers change, many things change between lives, but I've found the core of a soul doesn't really change. It grows and evolves but it still manifests what it needs to accommodate that evolution. One has to ask themselves, why would Napolean need a life as a peace loving student addicted to lentils?
 
Jim78 said:
That's the beauty of reincarnation. We don't cease to exist. We just migrate. I draw a line between Collins and myself in terms of the fact that Collins life is done and dusted and Jim's isn't but the only real differences are superficial IMO. The core of who my soul is remains the same.
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I think of it being in an harmonic vibration with the Soul's vibration and its gradual melding into a greater frequency - that is the first time I was got my thoughts focused and able to put it into writing. I think that my injured right brain-hemisphere of my brain has been trying to get the other half to get that assembled into words for quite awhile!
 
Thyme said:
In the world there are many people with the same personality pattern and similar physical characteristics.

Maybe that's why some people feel or believe they are a specific person.

A week ago I was thinking that two or more people could have lived the same life, but I don't know if this is feasible. Actually, I have no idea. I think you're still you, but with a different body and a different idea about things, but well... your essence is still the same, I think.

Personally, I prefer to talk about my past lives as if they were other people, although I know I'm talking about myself.

Internet, books, documentaries and articles about a famous person can help someone think that their circumstances are very similar, which creates empathy and a sense of identification. empathy is very common, so sometimes we feel identified with songs, movies or artists. The difference is that you can't claim to be a person who is alive right now, obviously.

With a keyboard and imagination people can invent things that never happened, that's the problem. I don't judge anyone, so I prefer to be understanding about it.

I know a lot of people who claim to be a person (famous, yes), I don't get angry, but I wish those people would find their real past lives. When you're sure of your past life, it's annoying when someone starts making up situations or lies.

I wanted to be Jim Morrison, because I admire him, but I wasn't him, unfortunately lol. Should I create a story about false reincarnation? Fantasies are pleasurable, but deep down you know it's not true, so... Sometimes there are people who could write wonderful fiction stories, but they waste time and take credibility away from people who are really concerned about their past lives.
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I wasn't a famous artist in one of my past lives,but I was simply famous around Europe for being "notorious" and an aristocrat I guess.I discovered this live mostly out of heavy emotions and horrid missing for my family and loved ones.I sadly don't have much memory,but I wish I had though.There are a lot of nasty lies spread about me on the internet and I just wish I had memories so I could prove them wrong,but somewhere deep down I just know what is true and what is not.There isn't anyone else who claimes to be the same person,thus I don't have to deal with people "stealing" my identity.Like most here mentioned people mostly think of their "famous" past life as something amazing and something to be proud of or just simply a way of getting people's approval,most of the time that's not the case.Yes,for me that life brought many good things,but there was also a lot of suffering,pain and eventually upleading trauma I had to endure.I also plan on keeping my past lives to myself,(especially this one)because I know people wouldn't believe me and it would ruin my reputation.(wich is sad if you think about it .)
 
Hi Vogue.

I know what you mean. I don't look up in awe at my past lives either. Like you I remember the human being that they were.

I also understand your apprehension about going public about your FPL. I've only really gone public about the ones known to a nation. I haven't discussed much of my most prominent FPL. That's also because I know people would have too many questions and it would bring up to much stuff I don't feel equipped to deal with right now.
 
I just read this thread again... very interesting stuff...it reflects the differences between who my spiritual self is and what is talked about in this thread.. From who my spiritual self is.,. my perspective is .. I'm not sure how you can have many prior incarnations then draw a line at one particular incarnation and then claim this is who I am.. This is very confusing to me because BB my spiritual self has never and never will see himself as any physical entity he has occupied ..He is himself BB.. a separate spiritual entity not John Tat or any other physical entity he has occupied ..They have all died and will never return... IMO if a spiritual entity requires the physical entities he has occupied as some sort of validation for his existence then something is possibly very wrong... If the physical and the spiritual were one and the same and not separate entities then physical death would not exist... I'm not saying that the incarnations of our spiritual selves are not important but IMO its important to understand our spiritual selves do not suffer from some multi personality disorder... BB is not John Tat the physical entity he currently occupies or any other physical entity he has occupied.. that is why I have never given the names of the physical entities he has occupied because they have no relevance to who BB is … What he BB has achieved in the physical by occupying these physical entities is a different thing and what he is all about..
 
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John, nobody is saying that the same personality returns. They (and I) are talking about aspects or small parts of their soil's energy just as you, like all of us, have most of your soul on the other-side where it exists "for thousands of appearances in the physical" by giving each new body a piece (aspect or personality). BB is an aspect like John or Ken or S&S, but John (you) and BB are aspects of the same Soul, S&S and I have different soul energies that we are part of, part of the soil's energy we were given at birth.
 
I like both your points of view. The relation(ship) with our Higher Selves is an interesting subject. I agree with Ken that in our body we don't use our full potential. I've always been fascinated by the things I am not able to do in this life. Like I love music and dance but I am absolutely not able to reproduce music (yesss, I really tried in my life) or dancing. I am not able to do statistics or math. It's not part of my package this time. I think I am tone-deaf (can't hear the difference between tones when I try to attune an instrument). But during my life, I do have had incidents in which I surprisingly was able to do a math thing, dance or sing a tone ladder up and down. Like the abilities are hidden deep down but not chosen to be useful in this life.

Besides this, I have one experience with a Higher Self, although not my own HS (I think). He really took an effort to make me understand the close relationship between the Higher Self and the smaller self. Everything we do, decide or experience has an immediate effect on the Higher Self. There is no separation, no illusion, he said.
I have interpreted this as that we as humans, are just manifesting (part) of our potential in the Earthly fields of energy. Sounds logical but it means that there is no indifference for 'us' from the point of view of a Higher Self.
 
I feel as if I am walking around blindfolded here with some small communication skills to my Soul who is "up there" and can see and try to communicate right back, but there is a lot of disturbance on the line, so it is kind off difficult ;)
 
Very interesting what fireflydancing was talking about with the relationship between higher and smaller self
There is point you can get to in your relationship with your spiritual self/soul/higher self whatever you call him/her /them where it brings you peace .. When you come to fully understand he is not you but he is most defiantly on you side .. and amongst many other things he is there to help and guide you.. when you get to that point then you can begin to get to a level of peace within the physical through a partnership with your spiritual self/soul/higher self .. The gods I believe in have no problems with this
The belief that only a mystical god can do these things IMO is detrimental to the possibilities of reaching peace with ourselves
When I look at this situation in its reality... that we have been educated that's its only through a mystical god we can get to a level of relative peace in the physical... it makes me look around and observe what is going on
In many cases .. those who are closest to me.. relatives and friends who would describe themselves as "religious people" many of them.. not all.. unlike me live life's that are far from peaceful with most of the reasons why they are not at peace with themselves are physical reasons
If you cannot reach peace through your god then what is your future?

THAT IS THE QUESTION
 
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