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Nazi = Nazin????

deborah

deborah

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I have several memories beginning in 1995 of living in the upper right hand corner of Italy during WWI & WWII. I have very clear memories of hiding Jewish people INSIDE of wine barrels during WWII. During that time -I never thought to research it....but in 2001 I found this image in the June 1963 National Geographic HUGE Wine Barrel.

Point in fact -people DID FIT INSIDE! I never would have believed it had I not seen it. A friend of mine told me that there is a BIG difference between Italian and French wine barrels for example and they are very specific in size and material. I was clueless and dismissed it until I came across the image a few years ago.

Anyway I am in the middle of researching that life - Can anyone tell me why in my memories I am calling the Nazi soldiers "Nazin"? I am clueless here - HELP!
 
Glad you made the connection. It's always good to find some facts to kinda validate aspects of your pastlife. Just thinking about it though, hiding in wine barrels make sense since the Jews were probaby using every conceivable hiding spot they had available to them.
 
Could nazin be the Italian form of slang for the Nazis? I mean if you were hiding Jews, you certainly would have been calling the Nazis by worse names.
catseye
 
just gonna throw this out but I think that -im is plural in hebrew, so it might be that you're remembering Nazim instead of Nazin. In italian it would probably be more like Nazios or something.
 
Deborah,
I belong to a group of Axis past lifers. One of them could probably help you out with the slang or the proper use of the word. Check it out at http://www.geocities.com/axispastlife/experiences.htm#heydrich

Overall, I have found the people there fairly limited as to the breadth of their experience and willingness to stretch their spiritual and philosophical boundries but very willing to uncover or remember the minutest details of a fascinating period of existance. While having no experience with the Jewish issues of the time some of them were very involved in the einsatzgruppen or higher level decision making regarding Jews.
 
Thank you all for trying - Like everything I have been researching recently -seems like I find the answers ------years down the road.

Honor - you might be right; If I was hiding Jews perhaps I am saying "Nazim"..not "Nazin"..and I was referencing the Jewish term.

Catseye -I will look into that possibility too. :) Nice to see you.

Ben, I am still amazed by the wine barrels.
 
Well the thing is, you found something concrete, almost like some pastlife evidence. I wish I could say the same for myself. For example, I have a memory/vision where I was dropped-off at some institution and seeing a large black intricately patterned iron gate (just like at cemetaries) yet that's all the information I have. By finding-out the history behind those barrels, that's sorta like me knowing the exact location of that gate, the nature of the structure/buildings behind it, pinpointing any signs for a language, etc. Some of us don't have the luxury of those details.
 
mixed up plural forms?

Hi Deborah,

Checking through google the form ´nazin´ comes up in german text as a plural form of´nazi´, in german. I think this happens too often to be just chance misspellings (The correct form in plural, in german, being ´nazis´).
So, it seems it´s a mistake (or possibly dialect version) that will occur at times in spoken or everyday german even today... because one way (there are a couple) of putting certain words in plural in that language is also to put an ´n´ or´en´at the end (Like ´soldat´- ´soldaten´(=soldier-soldiers), etc.).

And so, it may be a possibility that if you were living in the very north of Italy,
where Austria would have been the nearest neighbouring country, you could have been using (and felt at home with) a german everyday form of the plural of the word... or some such....( For example people in southern Sweden will be mixing in regular danish words into their everyday language, etc.)

A long shot but why not;) ...?


I like the hebrew idea, too, though...

(Along those lines, the refugees might also have been german-speaking ( from Austria, Germany, Switzerland) and there´s another reason you could have been using a semi-correct german version of the word.)
 
Hello Shield,

I'm from germany and I never heard "nazin". The first I thought was a female form of the word. For example as in
(baker)
Bäcker (male) -> Bäckerin (female)
But its uncommen for the term "nazi"

Think its something according to italian, not german.

cu
Andreas
 
This will not help much

Hi Deborah,
I remembered that tha Nazis didn't call themselves Nazis, so I tried to find the origin and it doesn't help you at all with your Nazin-question, but I thought that parts of the text was interesting.

Nazi - 1930, from Ger. Nazi, abbreviation of Ger. pronunciation of Nationalsozialist (based on earlier Ger. sozi, popular abbreviaton of "socialist"), from Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei "National Socialist German Workers' Party," led by Hitler from 1920. The 24th edition of Etymologisches Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache (2002) says the word Nazi was favored in southern Germany (supposedly from c.1924) among opponents of National Socialism because the nickname Nazi (from the masc. proper name Ignatz, Ger. form of Ignatius) was used colloquially to mean "a foolish person, clumsy or awkward person." Ignatz was a popular name in Catholic Austria, and according to one source in WWI Nazi was a generic name in the German Empire for the soldiers of Austria-Hungary. An older use of Nazi for national-sozial is attested in Ger. from 1903, but EWdS does not think it contributed to the word as applied to Hitler and his followers. The NSDAP for a time attempted to adopt the Nazi designation as what the Germans call a "despite-word," but they gave this up, and the NSDAP is said to have generally avoided the term. Before 1930, party members had been called in Eng. National Socialists, which dates from 1923. The use of Nazi Germany, Nazi regime, etc., was popularized by German exiles abroad. From them, it spread into other languages, and eventually brought back to Germany, after the war. In the USSR, the terms national socialist and Nazi were said to have been forbidden after 1932, presumably to avoid any taint to the good word socialist. Soviet literature refers to fascists.
Click to expand...
 
HI Shield.

Thank you! I find it interesting that 'nazin´ comes up in German text as a plural form of´nazi´, in a google search. Are the links in English? Or do you read German too? I would like to see them if you could post them here. Austria was the nearest neighboring country, we were not far from the border. I have often thought that the term was used in the context of a mixture of cultural references -- a syncretism of languages so to speak. Slang - but if it comes up as a plural form on the search and Andrea is in Germany and never heard of it -now I am confused. :)

Andreas.... I know that some terms used in English today are very different in the 1940's than they are today. Kind of like younger folks today referring to their friends as "daug" - pronounced "Dog" in some larger cities.. DO you have any links in English that could help me research it? Or people I could contact that are into German history during the 1940's?
 
YES IT DOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you Veronika,

Yes, it does -- it gives me the history of the term -- and if the Germans soldiers didn't call themselves Nazi's then it was a term used by those that didn't like them - during that time. Especially if you look at it in this context -

the nickname Nazi (from the masc. proper name Ignatz, Ger. form of Ignatius) was used colloquially to mean "a foolish person, clumsy or awkward person."
Click to expand...
 
DO you have any links in English that could help me research it? Or people I could contact that are into German history during the 1940's?
Click to expand...

Not really in that direction, but I think Veronika did a great job on that.

I tried to google som german texts with "nazin" in it, but the texts contained nazin only as a name of locations or people.

cu
Andreas
 
Main Entry: Na·zi
Pronunciation: 'nät-sE, 'nat-
Function: noun
Etymology: German, by shortening & alteration from Nationalsozialist, from national national + Sozialist socialist
Date: 1930
1 : a member of a German fascist party controlling Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler

Which makes me wonder why nazis wouldn't call them nazis
like Veronika said.
I only know that members of certain nazi divisions were called differently,
like the Gestapo (Geheime Staats Polizei) and Waffen SS.

The Germans are still fond abbreviations today.
Perhaps you could ask this question on a Italian forum.

Curious Girl.
 
Here are the google links, Deborah :

http://www.google.se/search?q=nazis+nazin&ie=ISO-8859-1&hl=sv&meta=


...but if you rule it out, Andreas, I wont insist:). It was kind of a shot in the dark, anyway, considering my very halting school german (should be better after six yrs of it:rolleyes: ;) ).

Still... I did talk to a italian guy (elderly journalist) that I know living here and he said no to the possibility of it being italian...(which doesn´t have to rule out slang, dialects, etc.)
 
Glad that I could be of some help! :)

I found that the 6th link on Shields list was the most interesting. It seems like the text is in Hebrew and the word Nazin is in a title of a book. The text in the on the goggle search-page was more interesting than the webpage itself.

Kolinsky, Elaine, *Congregation Corner VI: Ahavas Achim Anshe Nazin Nusach Hoarie ... BLACK BOOK OF LOCALITIES WHOSE JEWISH POPULATION WAS EXTERMINATED BY THE NAZIS, ...
Click to expand...

Doesen't it seem likely that Nazin means Nazis?

Further searches made me think that Elaine Kolinsky, who wrote the book, lives in Philadelphia. Maybe you could just ask her? I found the information on this webpage: Elaine
 
THANK YOU

Veronica -I will e-mail her and ask her - COOL! A source. Thank you all so much :) I will keep you posted as to what I find.

I have always felt that my fathers uncle in that life -- married a Jewish woman. She was my great aunt... and taken to one of the camps -and eventually died during WWII. My uncle was devastated...he was in his mid 50's when it happened. She was taken -- he was not. He was Italian.

I clearly remember him coming to my home; the look on his face...will always haunt me. No words can describe.
 
This is great ... congratulations Deborah on finding some connections :):)

I wonder if sometimes the Nazis did refer to themselves as Nazis in their own circles, kinda like the blacks refer to each other in their own circles by the "N" word? And, they often drop the "er" and subsitute an "a".
 
I think members and supporters of the Nazi Party were proud to be a member.
In some circles it was worse to be called a communist than a Nazi.
I read some books (also ego documents) about WWII,
but I can't remember what Nazis called themselves.
It depended also on rank, division and that sorts of things.
Fascism had a more negative sound, at least here in Holland,
but I don't know how that was in Italy since Mussolini invented fascism.

Curious Girl.

...dunno much about history ;)
 
Well...............

Nazin appears to be another way to say it! A friend of mine did a search on Nazin and reich.

From: Nazin:

BERLIN DEUTSCHLAND. Die deutsche Regierung errichtet ein nationales Denkmal zu den Homosexuellen, die unter den Nazin verfolgt und getötet wurden, ähnlich bis ein, das die sechs Million Juden gedenkt, die im Holocaust starben. Unter den Nazin ca. 50,000 Leute wurden für Sein homosexuell und geschätzten 10 überführt,000 bis 15,000 homosexuelle Männer wurden zu den Konzentration Lagern verbannt. Wenige überlebten.

Babelfish translation:
BERLIN GERMANY. The German government establishes a national monument to the homosexuals, who were pursued and killed under the Nazin, similarly to, which intends the six million Jews, who died in the Holocaust. Under the Nazin approx.. 50.000 people were transferred for to be homosexual and estimated 10, 000 to 15.000 homosexuals men were banished to the concentration camps. Few survived.
 
In this case Nazin means Nazis,
it's a typical German grammarical trick.
Die Nazis becomes den Nazin because of "unter".
But a German never would say: beware, the Nazin are comming,
it totally depends on the construction of the sentence.

Curious Girl.
 
Thanks Curious Girl!

So, an Italian woman saving Jewish people might say "NAZIN" and it would be the right context?

from my journal 1995 -

I remember the look of intense power and untrusting glares that the captain of the "Nazin" was directing my way as the wine sloshed from side to side.
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I have been thinking some more. How much Hebrew (if it is Hebrew) did Jews speak before Israel was created? Did some speak Hebrew or was it a dead language that Israelites started to speak again? I truly don't know, it is something that I started to think about.

I don't know how strong connections there is between jiddisch and Hebrew, maybe some words are the same? It would be natural if a word like Nazis would get inported from jiddisch to modern Hebrew?

Maybe it is Jiddisch that you should research?
 
Jiddish, of course!
Veronika you're smart, hug you for that :)

I think that most German Jews spoke German and perhaps a bit Jiddisch when they were home.
For East European Jews Jiddish was like their native language,
and who knows where the Jews Deborah took care of came from.

Jiddish is a mix from Hebrew, German and some Slavic languages,
but a lot of words have Hebrew roots.

And now another tricky question.
Deborah, you weren't jewish yourself in the past
so why would you use the Hebrew word for Nazis?
It could be that the Jews who lived with you talked a lot about 'Nazin'
that you started using the word yourself.

Another thing I wondered about: You lived in Italy,
the Italian fascists worked together with the (Austrian and German) Nazis
but I don't think that Italian fascists were called Nazis.
There are two explanations: the Germans (Nazis) were everywhere in Europe,
and had the right to do what they wanted when they where active in another country with a Nazi-like regime.
Or you lived in an Italian-Austrian territory were the Austrian Nazis were in charge during WWII.

Well, just guessing.

Curious Girl.
 
Yeah, jiddisch is a good idea!:)

(curious girl, ´nazin´ as a form coming after a preposition, did pop into my head, as well... not going any further. German grammar is hell ;) ).
 
I've had German for about 3 years in high school
but even if I knew how their grammar works I couldn't even explain.
Mission impossible ;)

Curious Girl.
 
Good point Curios girl!
I am pretty sure that the Italian fascists weren't called Nazis, but I found the explanation here: Holocaust in Italy

The Germans occupied Northern Italy for a while.

Deborah,
So, an Italian woman saving Jewish people might say "NAZIN" and it would be the right context?
Click to expand...

It is very unlikely that she would do that if the word came from German. The context is wrong and as I understand it the Nazin form is a rare gramatical exception, so it is not likely at all that she would know German that good, to know that the form Nazin even exists in German.
 
RIGHT ON!

Man you guys ROCK! :)

Well, - there is a twist I have not included here. During World War I, I saved a German Pilot whose plane had crashed. I hid him under the floor boards where there was a small storage space in our big barn. My father didn't know about him - nor anyone else. I slipped him food and bandaged his right arm and shoulder for three months. I imagine -I learned some German words from him even though it was 20 some years before the Nazi's.

Although it isn't likely that she would know the word...then how did I know it in my meditation in 1995? She/I must have picked it up from someone! Curious Girl, Veronika, Shield...all of you are smarter than I am. Jiddisch? OK -hummmmmmmmmm I speak no other languages. ;) Perhaps Jiddisch is the answer.

This is one of those instances where -if in my Meditation I had said "Nazi"...no questions asked. But since I used a word...that took all of us here - several days to unravel...doesn't that point to a very unusual coincidence? And a likelihood that the memory has no other source except a past life?

Veronika -are you saying that the context in which I used the term Nazin -in the above quote from my journal is not right? Quite possibly; as I am recording/writing my memories -I guess it doesn't mean I am using it in a sentence with someone.

Curious Girl -"Or you lived in an Italian-Austrian territory were the Austrian Nazi's were in charge during WWII. - this is very likely and I will have to look into the borders and territories of that time. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Deborah,
We are not smarter than you - but we have been forced to learn some more languages than you. :)

Veronika -are you saying that the context in which I used
the term Nazin -in the above quote from my journal is not right? Quite possibly; as I am recording/writing my memories -I guess it doesn't mean I am using it in a sentence with someone.
Click to expand...

No, I meant that the gramatical context wouldn't be right. You would never think about them as "Nazin" if you had used a word that came from German. Sorry, I can't think of any example to explain it to you. English and German are quite different in their gramatical structure. It must come from some other language. Hebrew-jiddisch sounds more likely at the moment.

If the form exists in modern hebrew. We wouldn't get many Internet hits as they use a different alphabeth. That explains why we got only one hit where a book title was transcribed into English and not many hits. I don't think that Jiddisch is too alive at the moment. Even if the form Nazin exists in Jiddisch. I don't think there are many websites on that language.

Do you remember where you lived? Not that it matter that much as the SS looked for jews in half of Itlay as far as to Rome.
 
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