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Nazi = Nazin????

Originally posted by curious_girl
I think that most German Jews spoke German and perhaps a bit Jiddisch when they were home.
For East European Jews Jiddish was like their native language, and who knows where the Jews Deborah took care of came from.
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I was German before, and the majority of German Jews spoke German. I suspect it's where I get my dislike (but not hatred) of Yiddish; it just sounds like a dumbing-down of German, like Appalachian or Ozark dialects sound to a speaker of the Queen's English (or just educated American English). It was a language of superstition, peasants living in mud hovels in the shtetl, who didn't show any interest in taking much from the surrounding cultures. Yiddish is, I believe, Middle High German, as though the beautiful German language just stopped evolving and stayed in that stunted form. The Eastern Europeans who were living in cities and not the remains of the shtetl tended to speak their hosts' languages, like the Hungarian memoirs I've read having the families speaking Hungarian as their first language. I do feel bad that the Shoah sounded the death knell of Yiddish and now it's almost extinct, though not as nearly extinct as Ladino or Judeo-French, but at the same time I still view it as an insult to the German language.
 
There are so many dialects in german, and Jiddisch is not the ugliest one (I take Schweizerdeutsch as spoken in Bale with its Sing Sang there). Indeed I like Jiddisch. The german accent I love most, is the austrian
 
More...........

OK More questions -during my meditation in 1995 an interesting bit of information came through.

I had the realization that helped me understand the situation I was in at the time. Not only was I a woman, but my father had died, there was no man in the house, just me. I knew - a woman could not own property. Therefore, my fathers youngest brother owned it. I merely kept it up, tended what little grapes I could and lived there. Occasionally my uncle and his wife would come to visit me to see how I was doing. That's why I saw them when I was so young and they were leaving on the train, and many times after that even when I was older.
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I was alone beginning around 1918 or so right up until my death...does anyone know if my memory about a woman not being able or allowed to own property during that time is true or not? How would I find out such a fact?

Does anyone know a good translating website or know what "Para (N)Michie" means? I have no idea on the spelling but that's how it sounds. It came to me when others were saying how sad..or awful or troubling..something was....when they carried my dead body out of the house. I am clueless --------again... perhaps they were just chatting but now I am curious.
 
Hi Deborah,

What I think of first is that 'para Michie' should be par(a) amici maybe? And I think it means something like 'for friends'. Amici = friends, that I know for sure, but I am not sure if 'para' means 'for' or 'by' or something similar.


Eevee
 
Thank you Eevee -

Like I said -I heard it -I didn't see it in the meditation. The translator website says the "Para" in Italian means "it adorns"
I checked "par" nothing came up. Amici = friends -that's good to know. It seems that the spelling Michie - is a last name based on my internet searches. ssighhhhhhhhhhh oh well.

It adorns friends. :rolleyes: what the heck? Well -maybe someone else will shed some more light on the oddity of it all..... for me.
 
Hi Deborah!
You probably need someone who speaks Italian for this one. I remember that I once found a good website on womens lib. in Sweden with all the years when women were allowed to do different things. Maybe there would be a similar website over Italy.

1918 women were probably not allowed to vote, but I don't rember ever hearing about women not being allowed to own property. It could be possible with such a law, anyway.
 
HI Veronika,

Thank you. Bluehayze found this for me -- Italy: The property qualification of a widow or woman legally separated from her husband may be transferred to a son, grandson or great-grandson appointed by her, by the law of 1882.. - www.2worldbook.com

So I imagine - that if my father died and there was no other male heir - except my fathers brother - he then would have owned the vineyard and the house. My mother was also killed in the bomb raid and I was the only child still living.

If anyone finds anything else -please let me know -I would appreciate it very much.
 
Former Jew?

It's interesting for me to read this because it reminds me of an event I had dismissed a few years ago. My husband and I live in Germany. We used to live in Bad Aibling which is in Bavaria. We were visiting a small town called Rosenheim. I was newly pregnant with my third child, my second one having died (that's why I brushed this episode off). I was walking down the street with my young son when I heard a motorcycle engine turn over. In that instant the view turned to an auburn color and I looked down and saw myself in a grey wool dress with stockings and black heels and I saw a gold star on my left breast. The feeling of panic was so strong that I froze first then grabbed my baby and ran inside a local building where my husband was shopping. I was so frightened. My husband asked me what was wrong and I told him, but we both just sort of blew it off because we had just lost our baby and hadn't been in Germany long AND my BA is in history and my family is of German descent AND my mother was married to a Jewish man for years and I have a vivid imagination etc., etc., etc. What do you guys think?
 
Welcome to the forum

HI liamsmat

Your experience is wonderful actually and I can relate to it VERY MUCH. Something similar happened to me a few years back. I highly recommend to people who have had experiences like this and are trying to understand it to look into the book The Holographic Universe.

It really does put things into perspective. At least it did for me and in a scientific manner that wasn't all that hard to understand. :) :)
 
Deborah

I don't know Italian but I do know Spanish. If it helps any, in Spanish Para Michi would be translated as "For Michi".

I know that being Romance languages Spanish and Italian are similar. Well maybe that doesn't help :o But I wanted to try.

Regards,

Philip
 
Thank You Philip. It's really hard to decifer sometimes the spelling of a word we hear in meditation. Spirit told me tonight to check the spelling - that I was off by one letter. So I thought about it and ran another check. The closest thing to "P"ara is "B"ara.

When I ran a translation on the word bara- in Italian it means - coffin. That would fit the situation. Since they were carrying my dead body out of the house. Now if I can figure out what the other word means. ;)
 
Going back to the word "Nazin," since (from what I've read on this thread) it is not used in the context in which Deborah used it, I would conclude that it must actually be "Nazim," based on the Hebrew plural.

Even before the creation of Israel, all Jews had to know Hebrew well enough to understand the Torah. I have even heard some Christians use the suffix -im when speaking of things mentioned in the Old Testament (e.g. Seraphim, Cherubim, Nephilim).

Perhaps it was simply mistaken for "Nazin" in this case. I mishear things all the time--I always thought Annie Lennox was singing "Sweet Jesus, made of cheese" instead of "Sweet dreams are made of this."
 
Spocket,

"Sweet Jesus, made of cheese" :D ROFL!
(Hey, who knows, maybe you´ve intuitively hit on a deep spiritual truth, here... wouldn´t that change our view of religion... :D )
 
Years ago i had a very vivid dream that definitely affected me and has affected me over the course of the years since i experienced it. I was in a bombed-out building. When i think about it now it could have been a very beat-up building like a ghetto. I was trying to hide from german soldiers. Everything was brown and white like an old picture. There were a handful of them in uniform and one man who was wearing a snap-brim hat, goggles, a trench coat, boots and a pistol. I got to an area of the building where the building was split in two sections, connected by a concrete bridge. the bridge was broken in the middle so no one could pass across it. I stood on one side with the nazis on the other side and there was no way to get across. But then, in my dream, i thought loudly to myself, There is no point in running anymore. I jumped off the bridge and fell down to the cement below. I hit my head on a rock and died. I felt myself bleed to death. It was a terrible feeling. Then i woke up.
 
Hi Spocket

Thank you for the clue. Yes.... that is another possibility. It's funny -a lot of this stuff I remembered over ten years ago -journaled it, explored it, but never did the research on the specifics. It's quite amazing to find facts -within the memories -however vague they might be.

Joyan -thank you for sharing your experience. That war had a profound effect on me as well. It is interesting that you experienced part of it as a black and white photograph. There is an older thread in this section that I posted -about the same kind of experience but in meditation. You might want to check it out. ;)
 
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When i think about that dream more, i wonder who i was. I dont think that i was a jewish victim. I really dont think that i was. I think rather that i was french. I know this sounds odd, but when i hear about WW2 (or any of history's wars), i do not get emotional or attached to the plight of the jewish people. Rather, i get very worked-up, even vehement over the French. I took french in highschool despite the 'advice' of my family to take spanish ("it would be more useful"), and i aggressively defend the French when they are disrespected or scoffed at. Why is this? I wonder. I feel i have some connection to them. Maybe in this past life experience, I was there during the takeover of France. I have no idea what age or gender i was during that time.

I'll look for your post =)
 
More thoughts

Hi Curious Girl,

When you posted this "Or you lived in an Italian-Austrian territory were the Austrian Nazis were in charge during WWII." Last year - I was swamped with classes and shows and running behind myself. When I responded - I didn't explain.

In 1992 - I remembered living in a small town near the Italian-Austrian border.
It was clearly the upper right hand area of Italy - near the border. I am in the process of researching more about this area. Does anyone know of any good websites that describe the bombings of Northern Italy? There is so much information on the web for the wars - I am lost.

My strongest memories are of two bombings. One in WWI the other in WWII.
 
Hi Deborah,

Back to the words for a moment...I find that when Italian is spoken quickly, some of the letters and sounds are missed until you see it written. The one thing I could come up with in Italian that sounds close to para michie is andare in mia vece (say it fast ;) ), which means go in my stead. Just a thought :D

Ailish
 
Holocaust memories

I was born in NYC in 1951. I recall as a child having repetitive dreams of what I thought was being in the subway. I thought this because, even as a young child, I'd been in the NYC subways, and their walls (still are) covered with white ceramic tiles.

My mother would listen to my repetitive dreams stories, and shared the fact that she had repetitive dreams when she was a child, although I don't remember what she told me about those dreams. She encouraged me to tell her about my repetitive dream, so I have memories of telling her the dream had happened again, as well as memories of the dream.

The dream consisted of me getting on a train with a woman I thought was my mother, and a boy I thought was my brother. My brother and I discovered a hole in the floor boards of the train car and I distinctlly recall watching the rails pass by as the train moved toward its destination.

Then I was standing naked in the subway with a group of other naked people. These people were skinny and old, they were tired and sad, but I wasn't so old. I recall feeling that I had a relationship with the group of naked people. We walked around 'the subway', then we fell down. These dreams stopped when I was about 17.

Years later, in my 20's I was watching a television show about the Holocaust. It occurred to me that 'the subway' might have been a white-tiled Nazi gas chamber, the 'subway car' a freight train carrying me and my (then) brother and mother to a concentration camp.

About 6 years ago, I discovered the books of Rabbi Gershom, who writes about people's past life memories of the Holocaust. I read two of his books in total awe. I really felt he was writing about me. I spent a year in his email list, discussing this issue. I met some women there who share my memories of the Holocaust. We are all still in daily contact.

http://www.interfaithfamily.com/jml...MI8o7K5eKs1QIVTVcNCh1euACzEAAYASAAEgLHa_D_BwE is the Rabbi's web site.
 
Words are so hard to deal with in memories-- especially if they are in another language. I heard -"Para Michi" and a few months ago I came up with the following. It is so hard to hear the words and spell them correctly, consciousness seems to go to that which it knows and makes associations. I knew the feeling of the words and am now wondering if they were not talking about getting a coffin from the city of Trieste which I had never heard of before today.

tristi, which means Sad and was the closest to the meaning I felt-------me tristi which means me sad ---And ma tristi = but sad. Bara- in Italian it means - coffin.

I was researching some areas to visit because I am planning on traveling to Italy next summer -- and came across this -

The frontier between Italy and Austria was different to any other frontier in the First World War. To the north the Alps protected the Austrian heartland. To the east the Austrian navy sat just across the Adriatic: its chief port was at Pola and it had major ship-building yards at Trieste.
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Does anyone have information regarding the WWI & WWII history of this city?
I didn't live there - but perhaps in a small town near by. Are there any train stations in that area from that time period? Any links and information would be appreciated.

I am not sure if I am on the right track - but so far it feels right. I am looking for more clues. Like bombings - air raids from WWI and WWII in the small towns near the border. Researching is SO HARD! Ailish - you speak Italian? yes it is a HARD one to decipher.

Thanks for sharing VicStevens. :)
 
Hello Deborah,

I found some information from the Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia, but unfortunately it doesn't contain any specifics you asked for. Anyway, here goes:

As the only Austrian seaport and a natural outlet for countries of central Europe, Trieste prospered throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries. Italian troops captured the city, long an Italian irredentist centre, in 1918, during World War I. In 1919, by the terms of the Allied Treaty of Saint-Germain with Austria, the city, in which the Italian language and culture had long flourished, was assigned to Italy. Although the free trade zone was maintained, Trieste declined as a shipping centre under Italian rule, because it was politically cut off from central Europe; industrial growth, however, continued.

Yugoslav troops captured the city in May 1945, during World War II. By the terms of the peace signed (1947) by Italy after the war, Trieste and the surrounding area became part of the Free Territory of Trieste, which was placed under the protection of the United Nations. The territory was divided into Zone A, which included the city of Trieste and which was under Allied control, and Zone B, under Yugoslav control.

© 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Karoliina
 
I'll just add a couple of more things, even though they are probably the ones you already know:

Italy declared war on Austria-Hungary on May 23, 1915. The chief military events on the Austro-Italian Front in 1915 were four indecisive battles between Austro-Hungarian and Italian armies on the Isonzo River (June 29-July 7, July 18-August 10, October 18-November 3, and November 10-December 10). The purpose of the Italian attack was to break through the Austrian lines and capture Trieste.

© 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

After declaring war on Austria-Hungary in May 1915, Italy planned to attack Austro-Hungarian forces on the Italian border. In an attempt to capture Trieste, a critical seaport for Austria-Hungary and a former Italian city, the Italians engaged the Austro-Hungarians in four indecisive battles during the summer and autumn of 1915. Italy captured Trieste in 1918, and officially annexed the city at the end of the war.

© 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Isonzo or Soča, river, south-eastern Europe, rising in the Julian Alps in north-western Slovenia and flowing south into north-eastern Italy. About 140 km (87 mi) long, the river turns sharply south-east near Gorizia, on the Italian border, and empties into the Gulf of Trieste, an arm of the Adriatic Sea. During World War I the Isonzo Valley was the site of many battles between the Italian and Austro-German forces and was included within Austrian territory ceded to Italy after the war. By the terms of the Treaty of Paris in 1947, Italy ceded to Yugoslavia that part of the river north of Gorizia. Known as Soča in the Slovenian language, the river became part of independent Slovenia in 1991.

© 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Friuli-Venezia Giulia, region in north-east Italy, bordered on the north by Austria, on the east by Slovenia, on the south by the Gulf of Venice (an arm of the Adriatic Sea), and on the west by the Italian region of Veneto. The region is divided into Gorizia, Pordenone, Trieste, and Udine provinces. The northern portion of the region is mountainous, with some elevations exceeding 2,740 m (8,990 ft): it receives the highest rainfall in Italy. This area, the Friuli section, is known for its trade in ham and dairy products. Other industries include livestock raising, lead and zinc mining, and some forestry. The Tagliamento River runs in a north-south direction through the centre of the region into the Adriatic Sea. In the south a low fertile coastal plain supports subsistence agriculture. The chief products are wheat, maize and other vegetables, and fruit, particularly grapes for wine. Along the coast fishing is important. Tobacco is produced in the south-east around Trieste, the regional capital and one of Italy's chief ports. Both Trieste and Monfalcone contain shipyards. Other leading cities are Udine and Gorizia. Industries include the manufacture of textiles, chemicals, cutlery, and machinery.

© 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
 
Thank You Eevee for the train references. I saw a couple of older trains when I was in Italy in May this year. :) Those darn trains bring up such memories.: angel

I do want to go back to the original topic in this thread, which is the term Nazin. It is one of those things, like the huge wine barrels - I never would have imagined. If I could pin point more specifically the term and it's usage it would be a small validation for me personally. One of the things I have learned over the years regarding reincarnation and research; it's the little things that sometimes -- mean more than the obvious.

Does anyone have any input?
 
Hi Deborah,

I came across a couple of things regarding Nazin as I was googling away.

I found reference to the plural form of Nazi being Nazin here but I am not too sure of the origins or the accuracy -- I've never heard of the "Dasprach," language style but it seems like a form of German.

I also came across a response on a forum that said "Nazin sind Leute auch!" which I ran through the Babelfish translator -- and it translated as "Nazin are people, also!"

The response to that statement was "Ja ja!" -- which is German, for "yes, yes!"

I also read -- that in Northern Italy there were a couple of different dialects that included some use of Austrian and Latin. It could be that Nazin is a word common to the area at that time -- a blending together of languages. It is definitely worth looking into -- I have seen it used several times in threads related to the Nazis -- somewhere, someone knows the etymology and usage. :)

Something to think about.... ;)

Also ------- just to put it out in left field ------ The Aramaic/Hebrew meaning of the word "nazir", is generally accepted to be "one who sets himself apart". The suffix "enes" comes from the remainder of the word "yessene", the Aramaic/Hebrew root from which Essenes is derived. It means simply, "purity".

Aili :)
 
Deborah, I just did a Google News Archive Search, and came up with some possible information for you. Some of it dates to WWI. Here is the link to my results. Hope you find something helpful. Archive Results

John
 
Is it possible Nazin could have been spelled Nazien?

The word Nazien appears here in relation to the Balkars.


Kabardino-Balkaria -- is an autonomous republic within Russia.

First the English translation:

Balkar
The Balkars are a Turkic group (same language as the Karachay, basically) and are a minority in Kabardino-Balkaria, where they live in the mountanious area, the Balkaria region (Malqar). Some of them collaborated with German Nazi occupiers in World War II, and were subsequently punished (unlike the Kabardians) as a whole people by Stalin, deported from 1944 to 1954.


Balkar herria mintzaira turkiarrekoa da (funtsean, Karatxaien hizkuntza bera da), eta gutxiengoa dira beren errepublikan, non Kabardeak diren nagusi). Kabardino-Balkariako mendi aldean bizi dira, Balkaria eskualdean (Malqar). II. Mundu Gerran haietarik batzuek Nazien okupazioarekin kolaboratu zuten, Errusiaren zapalkuntzari aurre egitekotan edo, eta horregatik Kaukasoko zigortutako herrietako bat dira: 1944tik 1954

Ah, more to think about. ;)
 
HI Ailish and John,

John - The link you gave shows Nazin as a last name. The Nazi's were in WWII. I didn't see other references. If you come across anything though - I would appreciate it.

Aili - so much is out there. I guess it is just a matter of digging through sites and texts. As far as the spelling goes - I do not have a clue. I was saying it - not writing it. It was in reference to the German WWII soldiers.
Thanks you two - I appreciate it. :)

Is anyone familiar with the Dasprach language style Ailish mentioned?
 
And more about the dialects of Northern Italy:

Italy is so linguistically diverse that the more than 21 dialects spoken throughout the peninsula have fueled what is known as "regionalism" for centuries.

Northern Italian dialects are the Gallo-Italian—including Piedmontese, Ligurian, Lombard, and Emilian—and Venetian. Further south, the major dialects are Tuscan and various others from Umbria to Sicily. Sardinian, spoken on the island of Sardinia, is sufficiently distinct from other dialects to be considered by some a Romance language in its own right. The Rhaeto-Romance forms, similar to the dialects of northern Italy, are spoken in the border region between Italy and Switzerland. It is not known exactly when Italian could be distinguished from its parent tongue; however, no text in Italian is recorded before the 10th cent. A.D.
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Rhaetian dialects:
also called Rhaeto-romance, group of Romance dialects spoken in Switzerland and northern Italy. The most important Rhaetian dialects are Sursilvan and Sutsilvan, which together make up the Romansh language (q.v.). Other Rhaetian dialects are Engadine, spoken in Switzerland in the Inn River valley; Ladin, spoken in the Alto Adige and Dolomites regions of northern Italy; and Friulian, spoken north of Venice to the Austrian border and east to the Yugoslavian border
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From the Syntactic Atlas of Northern Italy:

The ASIS Project is a research programme whose aim is to record and analyse the variation displayed by the Northern Italian dialects with respect to some syntactic phenomena.

The project has passed through a sampling phase during which data from a series of Northern Italian dialects has been gathered through the use of written questionnaires, identical for all varieties. Such a start was made necessary by the scarsity and randomness of data available on the syntactic characteristics of the varieties.
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That's going to require a lot of online dictionary searching!!!! :eek: :D
 
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