stepping in someone else's shoes

[Obie]

have any of you had lives where in one life you had a strong prejudice against some one or a group of ppl. and then in an another life you are that group of ppl. say in one life you are homophobic, but in the next life you come back as a gay man to experience how gay ppl are treated and to learn how harmful that ignorance was. has this happened to anyone in any of your lives.

 

[Susie]

Hi Obie,

Have any of these experiences happened to you?

 

[Karoliina]

Obie,

I've had this happen to me in a broader sense. In two lives in the 19th century, I was white and treating black people with no respect. In the first life my family owned slaves and I didn't really care about it - it was natural for me to own people and treat them like property. In the other life I was an Englishman, who moved to South Africa and felt like "naturally" better than native Africans.

In my two 20th century lives following that I was first a European Jew during a very antisemitic time. I was from a wealthy family, but it didn't always help. After that I was born as an African-American girl to a poor life with many difficulties.

In this life I have worked for equality of all people, even though I don't belong to any minority now, so maybe I've learned some lesson. Well, as a woman I've obviously had my fair share of discrimination, but it's nothing compared to my most recent life before this one.

Karoliina

 

[Obie]

Hi Obie,

Have any of these experiences happened to you?

no but i have several male friends who are gay and who have experienced past lives where they were macho and homophobic. i was thinking of them and wondering if that was the reason they are where they are today.

 

[Hippy16]

well i think i was african in one life, i kind of feel close to them, not like freindly, but like alot of fun. ilike how their families are. but in my 20s life, i think i was racist. but i know alot of people were. i mean i didnt do anything to them, but in one scene i did see a white man throw to black children out of his shop, and it didnt bother me in the memory. but when i woke up i was like, why didnt i do anything, or help the kids. which is why i think i learnd ALOT in that life. which might be why each time i do a regression i return to that life. im slowly uncovering more about who i was.

i always thought gay people might have been female/male in alot of lives. but now i kind of think it is to learn about bigotry and acceptance. but its made by our higher selves, see i think as a spirit we know what is best, but as a human we return to our human ways.

 

[kris0503]

This has happened to me many many times. And I am not about talking about many lives here; just one life. In this life itself, I have learnt many karmic lessons this way. I seem to get a pushback from karma rather quickly, which is good, since it makes learning process faster. I have experienced recoil from wrong actions, wrong and speech and wrong thoughts sometimes in a matter of days.

 

[Phoenix]

have any of you had lives where in one life you had a strong prejudice against some one or a group of ppl. and then in an another life you are that group of ppl. say in one life you are homophobic, but in the next life you come back as a gay man to experience how gay ppl are treated and to learn how harmful that ignorance was. has this happened to anyone in any of your lives.

That's happened to me, and to some of my friends...how better to learn how stupid it is to hate someone due to largely cosmetic reasons than to walk in their moccasins for a while?

I would agree with Aaron when it comes to sexual orientation-homophobia and denial often go hand in hand in a culture that is very anti-same sex relationships in nature. "I'm not gay, see, I just beat up a (insert cursewords and slurs here)." We use the term "homophobia" as a buzzword meaning someone who hates homosexuals, but -phobia means fear, not hatred.

 

[elese]

have any of you had lives where in one life you had a strong prejudice against some one or a group of ppl. and then in an another life you are that group of ppl. say in one life you are homophobic, but in the next life you come back as a gay man to experience how gay ppl are treated and to learn how harmful that ignorance was. has this happened to anyone in any of your lives.

I think a lot of this has to do with why i was black earlier on in my lifetimes... I hate racism... and was a great advocate against slavery...
also... having a homosexual friend in this life has taught me that it is not a social problem to be gay... they are people to... and now i'm a total advocate for the treatment of homosexuals as 'normal' people... cuz that's what they are....

I also have been a total ignorant person who wore fur and the likes in a past life... and am now a vegan (as well as a veggie last life) and regret my ignorance...

obie, i totally agree that this is something that could happen... and i think it does happen very commonly.. alls i can say is that i hope that all the gay haters i know come back as gays next life and see how it feels... i was lucky enough to just experience it through a friend.

 

[GDL]

I seem to get a pushback from karma rather quickly, which is good, since it makes learning process faster. I have experienced recoil from wrong actions, wrong and speech and wrong thoughts sometimes in a matter of days.

Kris, is it possible that you don't get "pushbacks" any faster than anyone else, but rather that you recognize them faster?

In other words, it may be a sign of where you are in your own development that are deliberately attuned to "lessons", even if you have not thought about it. Possible?

GDL

 

[kris0503]

Kris, is it possible that you don't get "pushbacks" any faster than anyone else, but rather that you recognize them faster?

Yes; this is quite possible. I have analyzed life in terms of karma as far back as I can remember. It is the only way that I could make sense of the world we know. I have always been attuned to karma in some sense. Even so, I think this is not the whole picture. There used to be an interesting thread called "Accelerated karma" in the spirit section, which has probably been deleted now. As the title suggests, the central idea of the thread was that at some point in our journey, karmic recoil is faster, not just its perception or recognition. Here is what I had posted in that thread.

Karma as teacher
Cloggie, accelerated karma is an interesting idea. I have often wondered about it myself. As usual, I have my own theory about it. I define karma as residual potential of our actions. As resisdence time of this potential becomes ever shorter, we experience accelerated karma. It is a good sign and signifies spiritual maturity. Accelerated karma makes the working of karma transparent to those who experience it. This is its primary beneifit. It makes us more aware of the karmic process and its impact on us. Accelerated karma is very effective teacher of the operation of karma.

That was posted on 8/13/03. Perhaps accelerated karma makes us more perceptive and attentive to the working of karma, which in turn brings about faster karmic recoil.

 

[GDL]

Hi Kris,

I'm a "late-nighter" or "owl", always sluggish by day and wide awake long past midnight. Another site I'm on has instant notification, but I'm still trying to get the hang of this one.

I have analyzed life in terms of karma as far back as I can remember. It is the only way that I could make sense of the world we know. I have always been attuned to karma in some sense. Even so, I think this is not the whole picture.

I don't either, but I was actually thinking of what came next:

As usual, I have my own theory about it. I define karma as residual potential of our actions. As resisdence time of this potential becomes ever shorter, we experience accelerated karma. It is a good sign and signifies spiritual maturity. Accelerated karma makes the working of karma transparent to those who experience it. This is its primary beneifit. It makes us more aware of the karmic process and its impact on us. Accelerated karma is very effective teacher of the operation of karma.

This was actually PRECISELY what I was thinking about. Just as in life there are people who seem to learn very quickly from their mistakes—and others who seem to have to experience pain again and again and again in order to learn really important lessons—I think the same thing is true on a karmic level. Furthermore, and this is just my personal "feeling", I think that those who seem to be attuned and learn very quickly　are not experiencing lessons as new lessons but rather as reminders. Does that make any sense?

I don't want to write too much, so let me end with this thought and see if perhaps you feel some kind of resonance with what I just said.

GDL

 

[kris0503]

I think that those who seem to be attuned and learn very quickly　are not experiencing lessons as new lessons but rather as reminders. Does that make any sense?

Yes; it does. Not only that, it is often accompanied with the thought - why didn't I think of this before doing what I did? Here is another thread that may interest you.

 

[GDL]

Yes; it does. Not only that, it is often accompanied with the thought - why didn't I think of this before doing what I did? Here is another thread that may interest you.

Interesting, Kris.

I don't notice finding things I need or some of the other things mentioned in the thread, but I really don't think that's the central point. Every time in my life I've need guidance, there has always been someone there to give me what I need. But sometimes it is delayed because I don't really ask for it, or don't really think I "deserve" it (negativity).

I also find that people come to me for help or advice (same thing?) at just the time I am feeling low about perhaps not having enough to give (feeling useless, not needed).

However, the thing I was specifically driving at (or meant to) is that I am aware of a need to make instant corrections when I do things that are not right. For instance, if I am sharp, impatient, sarcastic, unfair, I have to make it right NOW. I don't have time to sulk, to feel justified, if you know what I mean. When I say or do something that I don't like, I am very likely to turn around immediately and say, "I'm sorry. That was wrong. I had no right to say/do that." To me it is most shocking, in a very, very positive way, how much kids appreciate that.

"Kristin, I just was very grumpy, and I just realized it. I'm having a bad day, and it has nothing to do with you. Let's try again. I'll do better this time at listening." Like that.

GDL

 

[Nobutada]

In the life immediately before this one, I was Japanese and fighting America. Now I'm American-- seeing how the "other side" lived and lives. Some of my best friends at church are American World War II veterans, too-- even people who fought "near" me in the South Pacific.

I'm grateful for the opportunity, too. Much as I must let go of my feelings of resentment over WWII as much as possible, still, I'm grateful for the opportunity to learn to live in peace and in an attitude of understanding with all people.

-N.

 

[GDL]

In the life immediately before this one, I was Japanese and fighting America. Now I'm American-- seeing how the "other side" lived and lives. Some of my best friends at church are American World War II veterans, too-- even people who fought "near" me in the South Pacific.

Could you tell me when you started having these vivid memories? I can't relate to them at all on a personal basis, because I don't have any.

But I have an attraction to Japan. Very strong. And Chinese characters. About six years ago I got hooked and started studying characters. I've found Japanese the "hardest language on the planet", which I'm sure is not true, but with two alphabets and so many readings for kanji, I've often thought Chinese many be easier to read. Seriously.

From the start I studied each character in three forms, the traditional form (as still used in places like Taiwan and Hong Kong), the Japanese forms (some are simplified, I think between 400 and 500) and the simplified PRC characters, which I really don't like at all. I find them mostly an eye-sore.)

I'm good enough at the characters so that sometimes I can make out simple posts in traditional Chinese, but compared to the way German simply came to me, it's been a disappointment. Reading German is a joy. Reading Japanese, what little I can, is still torture. Yet the characters themselves totally fascinate me. And just the way I am drawn to European music from the 1800s, Japanese and Chinese art, primarily of landscapes, totally hypnotizes me.

Do you speak, write, read Japanese? What is the relation you have to the language? For me connections are always art and language, or particular landascapes (mountainous places, often cold).

Is this ability to remember other lives a talent that you merely have to encourage a bit?

GDL

 

[Nobutada]

I've had snippets of memories all my life, but it was only two years ago that it's really been strong...ever since I admitted fully to myself that what I was seeing was a past life and not my imagination.

-N.

 

[GDL]

I've had snippets of memories all my life, but it was only two years ago that it's really been strong...ever since I admitted fully to myself that what I was seeing was a past life and not my imagination.

-N.

Well, your experiences and those of others absolutely fascinate me. Because of my experiences in music (about always having know many musical compositions) and the connection I have with the German language, I was especially interested about what you might feel when you see or hear Japanese. For instance, I would expect you to pick up the language very easily.

GDL

 

[Nobutada]

Actually, yes-- Japanese is coming very easily to me. Problem is, classical Japanese is coming easier than modern Japanese. Classical Japanese (at least 150 years old and older) is fine-- especially since I'm an historian-in-training, but since I'm supposed to be learning/using modern Japanese at school, it makes for some interesting scenarios. Particularly when I'm asked to give a "sample" sentence-- let's say, "The weather is nice, so--" and I complete the sentence like so: "The weather is nice, so I shall return to [my duties in] the castle." Although with one of my teachers it's become something of an inside joke-- he knows I won't take his "joking" at my expense, so whenever he says something of the sort, I respond in classical Japanese, which makes both of us laugh.

-N.

 

[dark rosaleen]

I'm having that kind of experience now. It seems I'm far from alone.

 

[Nobutada]

The simple fact that this site exists always makes me happy and reminds me that I'm not alone.

-N.

 

[GDL]

Actually, yes-- Japanese is coming very easily to me. Problem is, classical Japanese is coming easier than modern Japanese. Classical Japanese (at least 150 years old and older) is fine-- especially since I'm an historian-in-training, but since I'm supposed to be learning/using modern Japanese at school, it makes for some interesting scenarios.

That's fascinating. The more characters in a sentence, the easier it is for me to read. Hiragana gives me problems, katakana is worse, and romaji drives me absolutely insane. I also hate the fact that so many characters were simplifed, since it makes the connection to Chinese so much hard to see—consider 龍、竜. (For those who can't see, the modern form is drasitcally simplifed, and the bottom part more like 電, den, part of denki, electricity.)

Particularly when I'm asked to give a "sample" sentence-- let's say, "The weather is nice, so--" and I complete the sentence like so: "The weather is nice, so I shall return to [my duties in] the castle." Although with one of my teachers it's become something of an inside joke--[…]

Isn't this teacher impressed though? If you are responding with words common 150 years ago, that's got to be rather amazing, right?

GDL

 

[Nobutada]

All of my teachers are, it seems...but it's more a wide-eyed shock sort of thing than a pleased kind of thing. LOL

-N.

 

[Obie]

suffering

did any of u have lives where u really really suffered? were the next lives more comfortable or were they the same?

 

[Ailish]

Hi Obie,

Yes, I've had lives where I've suffered greatly and lives that were "easy" by comparison. I've also had lives where I've made others suffer. It didn't follow any specific pattern, if that's what you mean....like after a difficult life, I got an easy one.


Ailish

 

[Karoliina]

Obie,

I'm sure there are obstacles in every life. But I think I've had two or three lives with lots of suffering - well probably more, but of these I have had memories or dreams about. After the first one with suffering I had two relatively easy lives, I'd say, and after them one or two bad ones. And then this life that's again quite fortunate. But it's all so relative.

I can't say about earlier eras, because the timeline is not complete due the lack of memories.

Karoliina

 

[Mama2HRB]

In this lifetime I have had periods where I was very comfortable, and periods where I have suffered a great deal. From what I know of my past lives, some were affluent, at least one I chose love over wealth - choosing to raise one man's many children over the love of a very wealthy lawyer from the big city.

A new pl has come where I was Tish, my guy now was John, we were wealthy.

 

[kris0503]

did any of u have lives where u really really suffered? were the next lives more comfortable or were they the same?

Would you consider life as a leper real suffering? Anything that came next had to be more comfortable.

 

[deborah]

HI Obie,

The Gnostic Gospels suggest how important it is to know how to create differently:

“According to the Gospel of Truth, the process of self discovery begins as a person experiences the “anguish and terror” of the human condition, as if lost in a fog or haunted in sleep by terrifying nightmares.

Valentinus’ myth of humanity’s origin, as we have seen, describes the anticipation of death and destruction as the experiential beginning of the Gnostic’s search. They say that all materiality was formed from three experiences, or sufferings; terror, pain, and confusion. Aphoria; literally roadlessness, not knowing where to go.” #144

The greatest suffering, I have come to understand is of my own making. My own choices. But even more important, I have realized that suffering is also a reality, a reality based on the fact that we have forgotten how to create differently. Once we face our responsibilities to self and other, once we support others and empower them, we empower ourselves for a better future. ((((((((obie))))))))).

 

[Denomar]

I have suffered and I have caused suffering in the cosmos as such. It's karmic order I guess.

Right now I'm suffering. This life I am incredibly passive. More than supposedly normal. I never hit back, I never say anything back when I receive hassle. I am currently in the midst of a bad depressiond and things aren't as easy as they could be for me, as I have panic and dissociative attacks daily.

So this time I'm suffering. Karma.

Also, a question. Karma and luck are surely similar in a way?

 

[Libellule]

Also, a question. Karma and luck are surely similar in a way?

I would say so. For certain kinds of "luck" anyway. Just recently, I saw a story on the news (and read, at the same time, a book where the same researcher was mentioned!) about experiments that were done involving "luck"... For example, they'd put a bank note on the street and see who would pick it up. People who viewed themselves as lucky were more likely to see the bill and pick it up. People who viewed themselves as unlucky would walk right over it without even seeing it. So that's one type of "luck"... where you have some control over it and your beliefs have a direct effect upon it.

Then, there's the type of luck where you win the lottery. Other than making the choice to buy the ticket, you really don't have much say in which numbers come up. I would guess that people who win the lottery are playing out karma of some kind (because it's not all fun and games to win, I've heard!). They were meant to win, for whatever reason; that reason may be different for every winner.

As for suffering... I think we probably all suffer at times in every life, but some lives can be positively consumed by it. As hard as it is, I think it's supposed to happen. Because if we were at the point where we didn't suffer (ie. if we were so evolved that we chose not to experience suffering when bad things happened to us), we probably wouldn't need to be incarnating on earth anymore. Suffering is just something we humans do, and it serves a useful purpose in helping to work out karma (even if it's an unpleasant way to do things).

I feel like I suffer in this life. But I may have suffered worse before. And I'm sure I've caused suffering, too. That's just the way it is. At least we can try to learn from it...

Lib