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Strange Burial

Angelcat

Senior Registered
Recently, I was in that in between sleeping and waking state early one morning when I had what I believe must be a past life memory. Here is what I experienced:

I seemed to be a small child, possibly a boy. I think I was searching for eggs belonging to birds nesting in the area. Anyhow, I hear a sound and I conceal myself in long grass close to a simple, wooden bridge. I had the feeling that this was Holland in maybe the 17th century, but I'm not sure. The area was wet and marshy with lots of tall grass. It felt like very early in the morning and there was a low mist and damp feel to the air. A small cart pulled by a horse and driven by two men drew up on the bridge. On the cart was a stout, young woman who was dead. The men pushed the body off the cart and it fell very close to where I was lying. I saw very clearly one leg belonging to this young woman and noticed that it was very white. The feet were bare and she appeared to be wearing a rough, woollen dress of mid grey colour. The two men, who were shabbily dressed, pushed the body down with long poles into a watery hole amongst the grass. At this point, I awoke fully.

What puzzles me is why this woman would be buried in this way. Can anyone throw some light on this? Any thoughts or ideas would be welcome.

Angelcat :)
 
Hello Angelcat,

What an interesting memory! :thumbsup:

To me it sounds like they wanted to hide the body. I don't know what they are called in English, but I know bodies have been hid and buried in "holes" at marshes (?) and it's difficult to find them afterwards.

We have at least one Dutch member, Curious Girl. I hope she can tell you whether there are landscapes like that in Holland - or have been. You could also try and look by googling.

Karoliina
 
Thank you Karoliina! You are right about burials in marshes or bogs. I did a Google search and apparently burying someone in a bog could be a punishment. If they had done something wrong and were deemed unfit to be buried in hallowed ground such as a churchyard, then they might be buried in a bog. Apparently, the body was often eviscerated and filled with stones so that it would sink.

I also found out that in the Middle Ages Holland had 250,000 ha of bogland. Such areas were often misty and a haven for wetland birds.

Bog bodies have been found in Holland and elsewhere in Europe. Most of them date from an earlier period than the 17th century. However, as I am not sure which century it was, I may have been living at an earlier time.

Once again, many thanks for your suggestions.

Angelcat :)
 
FASCINATING Angelcat! Awesome that Karoliina was able to help you find the possible reason for such a burial. Please do keep us posted. I am always intrigued by your posts and the sincerity in which you present the information and your experiences. *S*S*S*S :D
 
Bog Folks

Hello Angelcat
This an interesting memory. It seems as though you have done some research here that is relevant to what you saw in your remembering. I think you maybe correct that this could be from an earlier era . You may want to compare the details of this memory with the well preserved artifacts of different eras, as an example the famous "Iceman" mummy is such an example and the clothing from a number of "Bog Mummies" have also been well preserved ( as your own research may already show). I have found that just like visiting ones own home town after years of absence memories of other lives can come flooding back (and in context) by reviewing historical sites or artifacts ( almost like deja vue). These memories from other lifetimes have exactly the same sensation of feeling as those that I have of myself in this lifetime and are not "esoteric" in feeling.

I think that anthropology as a science (and art form) has a lot to offer the study of reincarnation. I am working with Dr. Wakter Semkiw M.D. on elements of the biology of reincarnation. In one case there is a famous mummy that matches many of the forensic features of a friend of mine who is willing to participate in this study ( the mummy is Indo-Eruropean, well preserved by a natural process of climate along with many grave goods). I think your memory is interesting and wonder if anyone in your soul group is currently known to you from this memory. This burial may also have been do to an illness. Good luck in your research, here is a link I found on the nature of bog mummies: http://www.mummytombs.com/mummylocator/bog/mummiesbog.htm
Yours Truly
John R.
 
The dress was very simple, little more than a sack. Actually, I think it was a dull green rather than grey...difficult colour to describe. I don't know whether she had been a prisoner or previously in an institution. I experienced no feelings about her. I don't think I knew her at all. I wasn't bothered by the fact that she was dead either. I think I was familiar with death and had seen bodies before. The only emotions I experienced were curiosity and some fear of being caught watching the event by the two men. I think because I was a child, I felt that maybe this was something I shouldn't see. I originally hid myself quickly in the long grass because I wasn't sure who or what might be approaching. I have a feeling that maybe I wasn't surposed to be in that area either. Maybe I was poaching on land that belonged to someone.

Last night when I got into bed I asked to see myself as I was then and what my name was. After a few minutes I saw a small, skinny boy of about 5 or 6 years old. Dirty, blond hair and dirty generally. Cute, little face with broken front teeth. Ragged, brown leggings that looked like they were tied on with cross-crossed pieces of brown fabric at the top. Brown tunic with a cloth belt with a a sort of bag attached to it. I started experiencing being him again and realised that I died at about 8 years old from what may have been a severe chest infection. I felt a tightness in my chest and couldn't breathe. My bones hurt and I felt very cold. I told myself to move on because this wasn't very pleasant. I then experienced running outside with great joy at the point of death. I'm not sure if I knew I was dead but I was very happy that I didn't feel ill anymore. I ran out of the village, which interestingly looked distinctly medieval. I then experienced flying toward a very bright light. So far, I haven't got a name, but will try again.

Angelcat :)
 
Deborah said:
FASCINATING Angelcat! Awesome that Karoliina was able to help you find the possible reason for such a burial. Please do keep us posted. I am always intrigued by your posts and the sincerity in which you present the information and your experiences. *S*S*S*S :D

Thank you Deborah for your kind words. I always enjoy your posts too. This memory of mine is proving to be quite interesting. I had never before thought that I might have lived in Holland. I do know, however, that I had at least two lifetimes during the Medieval period, which I think now is when this life in Holland probably took place.

Angelcat :)
 
I believe suicides were often buried with other "criminals" in bogs, marshes, and other isolated places far away from the graves of those who'd died natural deaths.
 
tommcfearsom said:
I think your memory is interesting and wonder if anyone in your soul group is currently known to you from this memory. This burial may also have been do to an illness. Good luck in your research, here is a link I found on the nature of bog mummies: http://www.mummytombs.com/mummylocator/bog/mummiesbog.htm
Yours Truly
John R.

Hi John,

I am not aware of anyone in my soul group being connected with this memory at the moment.

Many thanks for the link which I found very interesting.

Angelcat :)
 
Athlynne said:
I believe suicides were often buried with other "criminals" in bogs, marshes, and other isolated places far away from the graves of those who'd died natural deaths.

Thank you Athlynne for mentioning suicides. You could well be right because I noticed no sign of this woman having been put to death in any way.

Most of the 'bog bodies' that have been discovered show signs of considerable violence done to them; presumably as a punishment for whatever they were deemed to have done wrong or because they were victims of human sacrifice.

Angelcat :)
 
Hello Angelcat :) ,


I wonder if you got any further with this memory - or if new members know something about burying bodies like this?


Karoliina
 
Well, some of the most famous 'bog-bodies' are here from Denmark, but they come from all over Northern Europe. In archeology we work with the theory that they might have been sacrificed *however* that is based on one group of bodies, which leaves the rest for further interpretation.


Bog-bodies are known from most of prehistory, however the most famous and most well-preserved are from the early Iron Age.


I'm very curious to hear if you have had more memories of this.:thumbsup:
 
I found this a very interesting interpretation on the bog bodies. I also have heard archaeologists explain them as human sacrifices, probably because so many of them obviously died from violent acts. But how do we know they weren't just plain murders? In other cultures where sacrifices are done, the victim may be buried in a fancy tomb, or burned, or some such. The bog bodies were just discarded in areas most people would avoid.


Angelcat's memories shed a different light on this. Since shabbily dressed men were burying a woman openly (and casually), it was it doesn't look like ritual. It probably wasn't murder either, or they would have been hiding.


Maybe this was a common method of buriel in certain areas. If you live in a swamp, dry ground may be a precious commodity, not used for dead bodies. If these people were peasants, it makes sense that dead bodies were a common sight and buriels were nothing fancy. Any other ideas?
 
These were my thoughts exactly. I have a nagging feeling when I read literature on these assumed sacrifices that they weren't sacrifices at all.


There are *so* many other reasons why people would end up in the bog.


I'm quite intrigued by the fact that Angelcat could be a possible witness to something like that.
 
May I ask you what other circumstances you remember? Is the country clearly the Netherlands? I wouldn't be surprised. If so, my guess is the 17th century. Polderisation started then in provinces like Noord Holland, for example, and peat was mined from the ground. I think poor maiden was buried in such a peat hole.


Halldór Laxness wrote, peat was mined in Iceland in the 17th century as well. One of his novel heroes, Jón Hregvidsson is accused of killing the Danish king's executioner and putting his body into a peat-hole.


Skarphedinn
 
I have had some more memories of this life, but not about why this young woman was buried the way she was.


Skarpedinn, there was no evidence of peat being dug in this area where she was placed. It was a huge area of wetland with many grasses and reeds growing. There were expanses of water like where the bridge was. Many wildfowl nesting.


I believe my name was something like Deerkin or Derken (I'm spelling it phonetically). I was a little thief, but only because my mother and I were half-starved. My father was dead, as were my siblings. We struggled to survive.


I have had some additional memories of a market day with many merchants and much going on. After dark, when a lot of people fell asleep through drunkeness, there were rich pickings. On another occasion, in a forest, I came upon a merchant relieving himself nearby. It amused me that he was suffering diarrhea and in obvious discomfort - I think I had no liking at all for those who knew not starvation. I thought to myself with delight that he had probably eaten too much new pig! Anyhow, I stole one of his bales of sheepskins and hid it in the bottom of an old tree. I returned later, after dark, to retrieve it.


I have also remembered that not long before I died, the lice on my body crawled away. This caused my mother to start weeping because she knew it was a sign that I was dying.


Traveller and Sunniva, I think you may be right about people simply being buried in this way. I don't think her identitiy or why she was buried in this way is part of my own memories. Every time I try to get something more about her, I just get a replay of same event. If anything else comes to me about her at any time, you can be sure that I will include it on this thread.


Many thanks to everyone for their interest and ideas about this one.


Angelcat :)
 
Thanks for the update, Angelcat - very interesting! :thumbsup:


At least Dirk is a Dutch boy's name.


Karoliina
 
Hi Folks,


I thought I'd update this thread because I have had some more memories and information that I have found from further research. I also thought it might be of interest to new members.


Through meditating on this lifetime many times now, I have realised that the woman who was my mother back in that lifetime was my maternal grandmother in the present. She passed away when she was 90 and she and my grandfather used to live practically next door to us when I was a child. So, John (tommcfearsom) if you're still around on this Forum, yes, I have now recognized someone from that lifetime in my present soul group!


Grandma was very thrifty all of her life even though she had no reason to be. She was always concerned about not wasting food and hated to throw any away. She also had a habit of always giving me a food item of some sort to take home with me whenever I visited her and my grandfather which curiously she did not do with my sisters. e.g "Here's two mince pies just for you, my darling. Don't let your sisters see them!" I had always put this down to being her favourite grandchild, but I now wonder if it was because we were once mother and son and always hungry in that lifetime. I also wonder if her attitudes toward food were likewise related to her experiences of hunger back then. I fear she may have starved after I died because I think it was my poaching and thieving that kept us going. In case you're wondering, I have had no issues with food in the present beyond being concerned about eating a healthy diet. I grow all my own vegatables and soft fruits.


I have also remembered raiding the nests of songbirds in hedges and trees for their eggs, snaring rabbits and fishing in a pond with a crude 'net'. It consisted of a basket made of a thin branch bent in a circle and tied and many thinner, long twigs bent and tied in a criss-cross fashion. The whole being attached to a quite long straight branch. I caught a lot of small fish in this way standing in a pond and dragging it through the water. My whole existance was devoted to acquiring food. I have asked myself in meditation what I learnt from that short life and the answer that came to me was, resilience, resourcefulness and being content with very little.


Through persistantly focusing in meditation on the young woman buried in the marsh, I came up with a related memory quite recently which seems to explain why she was buried there. I was sitting on the floor with my mother eating small boiled eggs, some odd looking porridge and a dark bread ( I had the feeling that it was our only meal of the day). I was telling her what I had seen that morning and she became agitated. She asked me if I had touched the dead girl or if any part of her body had touched me, I assured her that neither was so and she was relieved. I asked her why she was concerned and she said the girl might have had a disease or been possessed of a demon. She also said that such as she must have been found on the road and not known hereabouts and that she would take a stick to me if I asked any more questions. I fell silent, but when I glanced at her she was smiling and I thought how much I loved her. My mother's name seems to have been Grit.


So, it looks to me as if this young woman was maybe buried the way she was simply because she was not known in that area and nothing was known about her. In addition, fear of disease and superstition may have played a part. Interesting eh?


With regard to bog bodies, through a lot of further research, I have turned up some evidence that suggests people were sometimes buried in water because they were considered deviant or evil and quite a lot of them were women. In the ancient mind, water may have represented a boundary or no-mans-land between the world of the living and the world of the dead. The idea being that the soul of the individual interred in water was held in limbo where it could neither proceed to the afterlife nor haunt the living as a discarnate spirit - the ultimate in punishment. Some bodies may ahve been held down with logs on top of them or tied to stakes simply so that the body would not rise to the surface in open water. In addition, some victims may have been tortured to obtain a 'confession'. There is also some evidence that those who became deformed through disease may have been killed and interred in water or bog because they were believed to be cursed or something similar.


I have also found various bits of information from a wide variety of sources that when pieced together lead me to conclude that if say the chieftan of a tribe, or some other important person, was captured by their enemies, the individual would likely be tortured, then killed and interred in water or some other visible boundary such as an area of bog or marsh. The latter may have been done either to just deny them the normal ceremony of burial or cremation which their own people would have provided or to place them in no-man's-land.


Perhaps some bog bodies with obvious signs of violence fall into this category, especially those whom scientists have proved were well-fed all of their lives and whose bodies showed no physical signs of hard labour. In short, they may not have been sacrificial victims as some archaeologists suggest, but important individuals who were singled out for special treatment by enemies who captured them alive.


As always, your thoughts and comments are very welcome.


Angelcat :)
 
Hi Angelcat,


Thanks for the update! How wonderful for you to recognize your grandmother from that lifetime :)

My mother's name seems to have been Grit.
My grandma's family is from Belgium (the Flemish side), and she had a friend named Griet. I believe in her case it was short for Margriet. You can hear a pronunciation of the name on this page. Does that sound at all familiar to you?

I have asked myself in meditation what I learnt from that short life and the answer that came to me was, resilience, resourcefulness and being content with very little.
Beautifully stated, Angelcat. Sometimes it's difficult to find meaning in some of our experiences, but I believe if we look hard enough, we can find them ;)

So, it looks to me as if this young woman was maybe buried the way she was simply because she was not known in that area and nothing was known about her. In addition, fear of disease and superstition may have played a part. Interesting eh?
Very interesting! You've done some great research and found some fascinating information. It's also a great validation for you - to know that your mother spoke of touching the body and being concerned about demons, to finding the info on the water burials due to deviance and/or evil. Great work! :thumbsup:


Please keep us posted if you learn more!


Aili
 
Thanks for posting an update for us. :) I've always been curious about that particular memory. Just the thought of "bog bodies" holds a strange fear and interest for me. I wonder why...
 
Hi Angelcat


Interesting how customs around burial have changed and to be aware of how much our own perceptions have been affected by these ancient held beliefs ,,


Good going on your searching. What a wonderful time we live in to be able to search in places like the internet ..
 
Hi Angelcat!


Thanks so much for the update! Your story is very interesting and I think you have some cool validations there! :thumbsup::cool


I'm glad also that your mother from that life was able to "spoil" you a little in this one with her yummy treats! :)
 
Hi Folks,


So sorry to have taken so long to reply here but a lot of things suddenly happened - none of which was very exciting so I won't bore anyone with it!

Ailish said:
My grandma's family is from Belgium (the Flemish side), and she had a friend named Griet. I believe in her case it was short for Margriet. You can hear a pronunciation of the name on this page. Does that sound at all familiar to you?
Thank you so much for that link, Ailish! Yes, the pronouciation is very similar. I had thought the name Grit very odd and had certainly never come across it before. It kinda confirms that I was living in Holland in that lifetime.

alaskanlaughter said:
Thanks for posting an update for us. I've always been curious about that particular memory. Just the thought of "bog bodies" holds a strange fear and interest for me. I wonder why...
Perhaps you were buried in that way yourself once or had something to do with the burial of such bodies in a past life. Not a very nice thought, I know!

soulfriendly said:
Hi Angelcat, Interesting how customs around burial have changed and to be aware of how much our own perceptions have been affected by these ancient held beliefs. Good going on your searching. What a wonderful time we live in to be able to search in places like the internet ..
Yes, without the internet, we would all be spending half our life in the library!

W.A. HEART said:
Hi Angelcat!
Thanks so much for the update! Your story is very interesting and I think you have some cool validations there! I'm glad also that your mother from that life was able to "spoil" you a little in this one with her yummy treats!
I certainly enjoyed all of grandma's little treats! It must happen all the time that simple things others do all have a reason in the past that so often we are unaware of.


Many thanks to everyone who replied to this thread. If any further details come to me I will be sure to post updates.


Angelcat :)
 
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