Time between Death/Reincarnation

Discussion in 'Reincarnation Questions' started by Excalibur-UK, Mar 3, 2000.

  1. ItalianAce

    ItalianAce Senior Registered

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    Hi,

    Don't forget there's more than one galaxy out there; science has detected hundreds of galaxies that can obtain life. Europe the moon of Jupiter might have life present, and there's some proof Mars MIGHT of had short term life during it's early creation 3.9 billion years ago. And you can't forget Andromeda galaxy, which is larger than our own galaxy. So, now we are talking both time and galaxies. I still believe time is standard with space and only moves forward reincarnation wise, but what about moving around the different galaxy's time zones. Now we're talking about a new galaxy theory and a whole new time dimension.
    Regards,
    Anthony
     
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  2. GreenKnight

    GreenKnight Senior Registered

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    Sperouc
    That is very interesting. Although I admit I had never analyzed it before, parallel lives (in my opinion) are entirely possible. But you already knew that :)
    Maybe the German man was a Walk-in when the lady died?
     
  3. How long does it take to come back?

    It's mostly a curious question, (aren't they all!) but, how long does it generally take to come back? Does a suicide take longer to reincarnate, and how many lives (generally) have most suicides lived before they decided to live out their lives? And, finally, how can I find out how many lives I've lived, etc, etc...

    Augustus McCrae

    "it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."
     
  4. manduh

    manduh ~I love this place~

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    It depends on the soul and the plan you have with god!
    Thats my thoughts!
    Amanda
     
  5. dorika

    dorika Senior Registered

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    Augustus,

    In my knowledge the "reincarnation" is somehow incorrect theory based on our limited conception about the "time" it self.

    I would say the correct specification would be
    remanifastation since our lives not hang on a string and one comes after other but we simultaniously living all of our lives with in a different timeframe and with different focuses, as on aspect of our wholeself.

    It's individual choice which earthly timeframe we wish to remanifest with different experiences.

    All of our aspect held the total inner knowledge it self and interact with all timeframe and focuses in the "past" "preasent" and "futures"
     
  6. fiziwig

    fiziwig moderator emeritus

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    Thousands of case histories collected by Dr. Ian Stevenson of the University of Virginia Medical School show an avergae time between death and rebirth of approximately 14 months.

    The Druse religion teaches that reincarnation is instant.

    Some Buddhist traditions teach that it is something like 49 days, yet the Dalai Lamas and other high ranking lamas usually turn up more like 1 to 1-1/2 years later.

    Some other traditions teach that it is hundreds or possibly even thousands of years.

    Other traditions sidestep the question altogether with a lot of dubious double-talk about "time has no meaning".

    If I were to bet on it, I'd put my money on the two most apparently reliable sources: Objective science (14 months average) and the well documented reincarnated Tibetan lamas (12 to 18 months). Those two seem like they are in pretty close agreement, and they are the ONLY ones with actual hard data to back up their claims.

    Everything that isn't backed up by hard data is just mushy speculation.
     
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  7. dorika

    dorika Senior Registered

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    Fiziwig,

    "just mushy speculation."

    Is that so? LOL... you have any personal experiences about it or you go by what was written by someone?
     
  8. fiziwig

    fiziwig moderator emeritus

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    dorika,

    I call it "mushy speculation" when 10 different "authorities" give 10 different answers, and NONE of those answers is backed up by any hard facts. Lacking large-scale studies, such as those done by Dr. Stevenson, how should one decide which speculation by which "authority" to believe?

    There is no basis upon which to make an informed decision unless there is data to back up that decision.

    I could write a book, declare myself an expert, and claim that the time between incarnations is precisely 277 days. There would be some who would believe if me if I wrote convincingly enough or pandered to enough common fantasies. But it would still be "mushy speculation" unless I backed it up with factual data.

    "...what was written by someone..." has no value whatsoever unless backed up by large-scale statistics. And one person's personal experience has no meaning for determining the usual or average time between incarnations. Suppose one person's personal experience says that he spent 100 years between his last life and his present one. So what? Maybe he hung around in the spirit realm for an extra long time. Maybe he has not been able to recall another life that came in between.

    One person might discover he spent 3 months between lives, another might discover he spent 3 years between lives. Neither of those invalidates the average discovered by Dr. Stevenson. And to examine only one case, i.e. one's personal experience, and assume that one case represents all possible cases would be rash over generalization and would lead to all sorts of errors.
     
  9. Hmmm...

    Hmmm...

    I think I'd like to respond to all who replied to my initial post. First, Rastislav, while I appreciate your reply and value your opinion, I am looking for a more "solid" answer than was provided. Now, I'm almost sure that there are no real answers out there, but, I'm certainly not interested in opinionated speculation. Sounds to me that you may be an Einstien fan, and honestly believe that 'time is relative'. Perhaps, but what are you basing this on?
    Second, "there is no "coming back." There is just coming, and quite a lot of it."
     
  10. fiziwig

    fiziwig moderator emeritus

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    Rastislav,

    The whole parallel lives things seems quite mysterious, and yet "deep down inside" I feel there might be some truth to it. Of course such a phenomenon really makes the whole question of "time between lives" kind of meaningless.

    And yet, case histories indicate that there does seem to be a fairly consistent time, as measured on earth-bound calendars, between a remembered past date of death and a current life date of birth. I understand what you're saying, but still, there is a pragmatic, observable time span that shows up over and over in past life studies, and that is measurable regardless of any deeper philosophical arguments regarding it's ultimate "meaning".

    I also find it interesting that parallel lives haven't shown up in any of Dr. Stevensons 3000+ case histories. While I do find the concept interesting, there doesn't seem to be any supporting evidence of an objective kind.

    Of course there are a few cases where people seemingly remember parallel lives. Hypnotherapist and author Dick Stuphen talks about his parallel live with a man that lived at the turn of the century and died an old man when he (Mr. Sutphen) was eleven years old. However, this is not proof of parallel lives, but only proof of parallel memories.

    As Dr. Braude points out in his excellent book Immortal Remains: The Evidence for Life After Death, there are numerous different hypothoses which might reasonalby account for past life or parallel life memories. We cannot accept any one of them as the explanation until we have given plausible arguments as to why the others are not equally feasible.

    What we think of as evidence for parallel lives might well be evidence of something else entirely, like "partial possesion", or unintentional mediumship, or memories shared by seperate souls on a higher plane, or traces from the akashic record, or,.... the list goes on an on.

    Assuming that parallel lives is the explanation for the observations is premature and not justified. It is, however, a "satisfying" answer, and so we are strongly tempted, for emotional reasons, to accept the hypothesis even when acceptance is not justified.

    While all of this is a digression and somewhat off topic, it does refer back to the more pragmatic answer to the question at hand. When Dr. Stevenson establishes the date of death for a child's previous personality and the date of birth for the present personality then it is entirely possible, and meaningful, to subtract one date from the other and arrive at a simple number of days between the first date and the second. Certainly there's no mystery in that?
     
  11. Augustus McCrae "high-fives" fiziwig

    fiziwig: Heh, well, your last post said everything I couldn't say. Just as I was formulating a response for Rastislav, you 'beat me to the punch'. Outstanding.

    I, wholeheartedly, agree with you. While his response may have been valid on some other planet or time (snicker, snicker) I really don't see how it applied to the conversation at hand. Personally, and I'm not mentioning any names, but I think *someone* needs to stop watching reruns of "Sliders."

    Now, with that said, I'm open to idea of parallel lives, just not today. I would still like to have the rest of my original question(s) answered, actually this one: "And, finally, how can I find out how many lives I've lived, etc, etc..."

    I'm familiar with past life regression, but I find it hard to trust to people to help me find the answers. Seems like they have their own agendas...blah, blah, blah...Does anyone know of anything I can do on my own? Possibly dream interpretation, meditation, etc?

    Yours in this life and the next,

    Augustus McCrae


    "I'm not like them, but I can pretend, the sun is gone and I haven't died, the day is done and I'm having fun, I think I'm dumb or maybe just happy"
     
  12. fiziwig

    fiziwig moderator emeritus

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    There are some decent self-regression tapes and CDs on the market. I've tried a couple of them and have a couple more on their way in the mail. So far my results are mixed.

    However, one piece of advice I heard from a prominent regressionist (I don't recall where I heard it though) is that you should probably ignore your first half dozen regressions. The rationale is that we all have both the ability and the tendancy to fantasize, and we need a few regression sessions to get the fantasys out of our system before we can begin to take the results seriously.

    I don't know if that really makes sense, but it sound plausible at least.
     
  13. His Majesty responds...

    Rastislav:

    Well, thank you for clarifying. Your explanation was both informative and extensive (at least more than I expected).

    So, as far as your concerned, I (my soul, spiritual being, whatever) is up there in the heavens somewhere, and I'm up there moving 'my character(s)' around like a chess piece. And, after having read your last post, it would seem to me that the suicide part of my question was answered by you. If I were to put a bullet through my skull, then it just doesn't matter because I'll just assign myself another character (or characters), and whatever lesson I needed to learn in this life (or this character) will just have to be learned through the next one. Hmmm.... It's certainly food for thought.

    Augustus McCrae



    "Spirit at war, I'm such a whore, I'm tired and sore."
     
  14. fiziwig

    fiziwig moderator emeritus

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    Rastislav,

    Reason 1: Dr. Stevenson's cases are spontaneous recall in children. Cases relying on regression by a single hypnotist might suffer from experimenter bias.

    Reason 2: Dr. Stevenson's cases contain objective facts that have been verified and cross checked, including facts that were known only to the previous personality, such as the location of hidden money in the previous personality's home. Regression cases seldom reveal verifiable facts, and certainly not the massive quantity of facts gathered by Dr. Stevenson.

    Reason 3: Dr. Stevenson's cases number in the thousands, and present a fairly unified and consistent picture of the phenomenon. Cases from different regressionists often show different features and are often inconsistent with each other.

    Reason 4: Dr. Stevenson admits the possibility of mechanisms other than reincarnation and has invested considerable effort in examining the alternate explanations. A regressionist who jumps to the conlcusion that a given single case "proves" reincarnation or parallel lives is unwaranted by the data. No single case "proves" anything. No single memory proves anything.

    I tend to agree that this is a strong possibility. It hasn't been proven, of course, but it remains one of many excellent hypotheses. I "believe" in it, not becuase I've proven it, but because it's the theory I hope is true. (That's what faith is, after all; the hope that what one believes is really true.)

    Let's consider the popular online game Everquest. If my player gets killed I may decide to quit playing for a day, or a week, and then come back to the game and either resurect my character or create a new one. In either case I can ask my fellow players "What happened while I was gone?" And they will answer by telling me all the things that went on in the world of this computer game while I was away from it. The game is a persistent reality whether I am present in it or not. Right now, this very instant, there are people in the Everquest game slaying dragons and trolls, or exploring some new ice cave they've just discovered under the glaciers of the wastelands.

    If this virtual reality is a shared reality then even while we are away from the game, the game goes on with other players. And it still remains a fact that between death and rebirth an average of 14 months elapses here on earth. That is the pragmatic, straightforward defintion of "how long between." I don't really see how the nature of the game can impact the persistent progression of time within the game.

    Perhaps that 14 months is experienced as instantaneous by the soul itself. Perhaps that 14 months is experienced as 100 years by the soul. We don't know. But what we do know, with nearly absolute certainty, is that 14 game-play months went by without that particular soul present in the game.
     
  15. fiziwig

    fiziwig moderator emeritus

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    P.S.

    It never ceases to amaze me the high level of discussions on this forum. Other newsgroups and forums I've been involved in are overwhelmed with personal attacks, name calling, and endless preaching by crazed psychotics who speak directly to God.

    The level of intelligence and civility on this forum are really quite exceptional. And while we all don't often agree in our interpretations, these discussions are stimulating and exciting.

    To all of you who have disagreed with me in the past (and in the future), I extend a heartfelt thank you for your thoughtful and intelligent discourse.

    I salute the loyal opposition. :)
     
  16. Hmm...

    fiziwig:

    I concur. This 'discussion' is civil, and it is quite a relief. I've also ventured into other forums and chat rooms and results were always the same. I guess people in here like to leave the 'mudslinging' to the politians, the 'name calling' on the playground and the endless preaching to the heretics and hypocrites [sic] to the endless parade of intellectually circumcized.

    Those are my thoughts on the matter, I don't know what you can do with the information, but there it is... :)

    Augustus McCrae



    "cramming your beliefs down others throats is like french kissing your sister; sure, it's fun, but that doesn't make it right."
     
  17. dorika

    dorika Senior Registered

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    Augustus,

    I'm sorry you totally missunderstood my post.
    The correction wasn't about you it was
    about my belief's, my opinon, my understanding
    about the missconception of the "reincarnation" theory.
    You said;
    "I was talking about the rebirth into another body and the time it takes."

    That was excatly I was talking about but I guess your belief's being insulted discarded the post.

    It's individual choice which earthly timeframe we wish to remanifest with different experiences."

    If a person want to remanifest immidietely or many earth years later it is happening by choice and free will, without ANY outside force
     
  18. dorika

    dorika Senior Registered

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    Fiziwig,

    I do understand what you saying, but far as I concern that is excatly the real problem when different people try to fit something to the cookie-cutter form based on what they believe is
    the truth.
    Since I believe we all trully individual and multidimensional beings there areno average only belief's of the persons who study some cases.
    I'm not questioning the integrity of the researcher, I'm questioning the conclusions.

    There are no generic answers only individual choices
    All answer is avalaible to you and to all of us, but they're not in the books but within.Learning to communicate with inner feelings expand awareness and self knowledge is the key
     
  19. dorika

    dorika:

    I did misunderstand you...all apologies. I'm the kind of person who generally acts on instinct and 'gut feelings', and thus far have been quite successful at it. Don't get me wrong, I also conduct my own research and generally 'pour' over books in search for the answers. Unfortunately, like an idiot, I've poured all my hopes and dreams of finding out about past lives and the 'afterlife' into the findings of these doctors and nut-cases who write books. I would guess that, until I die, I'll never really know. I've had a number of experiences (more specifically the 'discerning of spirits') and have listened to the personal experiences of others. Aside from that, (just like everyone else) I don't have the first **** clue as to the who, what, when and where.
    I would guess that one's own personal tragedies often prompts the search for answers to the (for the lack of a better word) "spirit world", and also assume this to be natural.

    Augustus McCrae



    "Oh, ****! We're all gonna die!" -Harrison Ford
     
  20. dorika

    dorika Senior Registered

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    Augustus,

    No need to apologize, I was certain you misunderstood my post.
    In my opinion the

    " the who, what, when and where" is the
    best starting point. That question it self can lead you to expand your consciousness, and let you understand again IMHO everything what we do here in physical based on belief's

    No books, no another persons will be able to convence anyone about anything only the desire for knowing by experience.

    Our beleif's can and will block any perception if we don't look for self-knowledge and understand where our belief's comes from, we adopted it, read it or experienced.

    I truly believe we all remembering all of our lives we just misinterpret, dismiss all the informations what comes from our essence because we're so cut up with the "one soul and one life at the time" and we have hard time to understand past, preasent and future is happening now
    The soul not what we get, the soul is not waiting for us when we die, but soul what we're therefore our consciousness always aware it self

    I have very little doubt you will find your answers soon as you'll open for the ever flowing informations from your innerself.
     
  21. Rod

    Rod Senior Registered

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    Despite the typical verbosity of my posts, I just have two things to add to this discussion.

    1. I would concur with Fiziwig about the reliability of Dr. Stevenson's work. Something interesting about his research is that details of the process of reincarnation, including timeframes, seemed very consistent across cultures.

    We tend to focus on the significance of the event when children talk about past lives in societies where they concept is not generally taught or accepted. It is just as important to note that in believing societies, the children do not report reincarnation in ways that support the specific beliefs. For example, children in the Druize community did NOT report immediate reincarnation, as their culture would dictate. Also in India, the position occupied in past vs. present lives reported by children does NOT support the prevailing Hindu view of Karma, any more than it does in other countries.

    2. Long spans betwen lives may only be time between lives remembered, rather than between all incarnations. If, for example, I had no memories of my lifetime from about 1908 to the late 50's, it would easy for me to falsey think that it took me over 60 years to reincarnate. Past lives are hard enough to remember that anyone could easily be forgetting a life in any remembered sucession of lives.

    It's an interesting question; thank you for asking it.

    ...Rod

    P.S.: I think my intervals were roughly 1 to 5 years between the previous life and this one, and 7 years between it and the one before that.
     
  22. Shirley-ann

    Shirley-ann Senior Registered

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    Honestly, I do not know.
    I have read some books of Jane Roberts, (the Seth-books) and a lot of things she (he) said made sense to me. I felt it was true, but couldn't explain. This is my personal experience about the Seth-books. I wondered how it felt to be two persons who think like one...and one day during a meditation, it felt like my soul split in two, just for a few seconds. it was unbelievable!

    When this was possible, then it could be possible to, to live some lifes at the same time (linear time). It is very difficult to believe this kind of stuff because of the way we are brought up... ;)
     
  23. dorika

    dorika Senior Registered

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    Shirley-ann


    "because of the way we are brought up."

    EXCATLY Our belief's many time formed by outside influences what we were told, what we read, what the religions tell us, what the "traditions" tell us, and we hardly listen what we should our multidimensional selves.

    " I felt it was true, but couldn't explain."
    That is IMHO the most important thing - what you felt
    If you can recall Jane/Seth never can say enough listen to yourself.
    Seth put the foundation to Elias who continue Seth informations in a more personal and detailed explanations and can be read

    http://www.eliasforum.org

    Although there are many thing said by Seth or Elias what we based on our belief's can't accept or seems impossible to understand definetely thought provoking concepts.
    At least make me open to the idea there are no such a thing is impossible, only realities what we don't know or remember about
     
  24. fiziwig

    fiziwig moderator emeritus

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    When I was a teenager I had a dream where I came to a fork in a path in the forest and took BOTH branches of the path. I split into two MEs, yet each of the MEs thought it was the only me. A bit later in the dream the two MEs met up on the path and came back together. After re-joining I had both sets of memories from both of the MEs and realized that I had been dreaming two different dreams simultaneously. But neither dream person knew about the other until they were re-joined.

    I'll never forget that dream even though it happened more than 40 years ago.
     
  25. gaelicgal

    gaelicgal Senior Registered

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    intervals between re-incarnation

    Interesting board!

    I really am interested in Rastislav's concept as I never heard of such a thing!! I always had read and felt that reincarnation was linear and although you do have one Soul, you have new personalities with each incarnation which can hang on after that personalities death i.e. ghost.

    Like the Astral planes there are supposed to be various 'bodies' of our physical body, ethereal, astral, etc about 7 in toto (forgive me..I have forgotten their names) and maybe that is what you are remembering is your astral bodies experiences or personalities experiences.

    I had read of research also agreeing with the linear concept i.e. Hindu children being born months later in another village and retaining all memories of the prior death/life.....yet once again linear progression. (TO what end I am not sure of!)

    Reincarnation is suppose to re-integrate the Soul with God(Goddess?) as well as re-integrating twin flames (male & female) that make up the one true Soul.

    So your higher consciousness is just really your true self, the Soul.

    The idea of living several simultaneous lives to me is unsettling as I would think I would know of each existence as clearly and definitively as this one (personality) is, yet I do not and only recognize this lowely single personality.

    What am I missing out on? LOL

    Also could explain Multiple Personality Disorder or Identity Disorder or Schizophrenia...I suppose.

    The concept sounds really interesting but I have to admit, the linear approach of single life progressing according to Karma and Dharma to ultimate perfection of overcoming the cycle of rebirth, al la Buddah and re-integrating with your true self, the Soul is more logical to me (an comforting)

    Gaelicgal (I think.....
     
  26. ssake

    ssake Senior Registered

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    Regarding the original question of how long it takes to come back, my understanding is that it can vary widely, but that on average, within 100 years or so. Occasionally people can get stuck as "ghosts" near the earth plane for very long periods of time for various reasons (strong attachmentsto the physical world or unresolved conflicts, severely immoral behavior, suicide for strongly selfish reasons, etc.). Conversely, people can stay in the "bardo" or astral for very long periods of time if they've earned the privilege, hundreds of years. People who die a sudden death tend to reincarnate quickly. Older souls have relatively more choices about their next incarnation (including, presumably, when to incarnate). That's a brief summary of what I've read.

    Regarding Stevenson's cases, I suspect that many of them represent situations where the person remained earthbound briefly and then reincarnated as quickly as possible, or even "walked in" or took over a pregnancy. I think a lot of them are not normal cases, and Stevenson admits this possibility in his books. I think the fact that they didn't go through the normal process of entering the astral and then forgetting their previous life as part of the "re-entering" process, is precisely why they have such specific past-life memories. This is borne out by the testimony of one of the Stevenson subjects, who, as I recall, said he died, *hung out in a palm tree nearby*, spotted a pregnant woman and got himself born in her.

    So Stevenson's cases, while genuine and scientifically documented, are a bit misleading as regards the normal process. It's very important, pioneering work because it's bringing the classical scientific method to bear on the issue, but it's just the beginning.
    Steve S.
     
  27. fiziwig

    fiziwig moderator emeritus

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    Steve,

    You bring up an excellent point about Dr. Stevenson's cases not being typical. As I recall most of his cases involve a violent past-life death, and since most deaths are not violent we know right from the start that his cases are not typical. Instead of saying that the average time between lives is 14 months, we should probably say that this is the average time to be reborn after a violent death.

    As for what the average is in other cases, as you point out, it probably depends on the level of advancement of the individual soul, and on the goals that soul has for its next incarnation.
     
  28. jackson

    jackson New Member

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    27 days.
     
  29. briski

    briski Senior Registered

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    Where did you get 27 days from?
     
  30. Lia1992

    Lia1992 Senior Member

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    So if I understand this correctly, in your time between lives you can actually see what's happening on Earth from...wherever you are as a soul? That would be great! I want to reincarnate into a family with a more progressive view on child raising. So, once I eventually left this body, I can...somehow...see all that happens anywhere on Earth an choose a family that suits my plans?
     

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