What would it take to make reincarnation a fact?
- Thread starter Majic
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Majic
Senior Registered
Morninglight, you certainly have some valid questions with reference to my comments. They are very well thought out and to the point. I'll try to answer them to the best of my ability.
1. Geological things: Your point is that geological catasthropies happened prior to human beings arriving on Earth. (I will have to agree with you, but you know that there isn't an real "proof" that is the case? It is just a belief, a deduction from what we have observed. Similar to how some people established that reincarnation has "proof".) Never-the-less, I was refering (but didn't state it) to the theory why Atlantis and Lemura had "Earth Changes" and disappeared into the ocean. {Again we don't have proof of that either.} Apparently the society became to egotistic, with no respect for others or Earth. The constant neglect for Earth innitiated earthquakes, etc. that may have cause it to disappear. I was saying that when people have developed a respect for everyone and everything, then these kinds of mishaps are not likely to happen. The bottom line is that if we respect what we do to Earth, then we won't be the cause of destroying her.
2. Everyone is completely responsible for what happens to him/her self. If she wins a million dollars, it is her (fault). If he breaks his leg, it is his (fault).
You say that this will eliminate the need for compassion, the need to solve problems, the need to care, etc. I feel that that is one of the biggest obstictals in accepting reincarnation as a trully fair and just system. I feel the problem is one of misunderstanding.
While things happen to people, and they have caused it, it doesn't mean that it had to happen to such a person. Let's use an example. Let's say that my son gets severly sick at the age of 8 and dies. Do I just let it happen, knowing that it is his responsibility. No. A part of my learning on this planet is to do everything I can to save him. I love my son and I use every bit of compassion that I have. I will do everything I can to save him. (He might know that he will die at age 8, or has planned it before his incarnation to Earth, but I don't know it.) I love my son and will do what I can do. When he does die, I will weep and greeve. I will eventually learn to let go and that life goes on. I could hang on and seek revenge in some way, but that may not be what my growth is all about. I will learn from the experience, along with many other people connected with his death. There is no selfishness or self-centeredness taking place. Only love.
If my daughter broke her arm. I would do everything possible to make her comfortable and to attend to it until it heals. I would teach her to be carefull and be observant and aware to avoid such a thing happening. She will learn how to deal with it. Yes, things will happen as they should, but I don't know when or why they will happen. There is a learning opportunity in all things. We are here to work with our emotions and values. We are here to live in love and not fear.
You mentioned that there would be no community spirit. That is not correct. There will be community spirit because we are are helping each other to learn, to reach their potential. We are all in this together and together we will learn compassion and love. Yes, we are responsible for ourselves, and others are responsible for themselves, but we also have respect for everyone. I respect your view point. I respect your right to do what you want to do. I respect your beliefs (but will attempt to help you if I can see that your beliefs may be distorted).I also respect what happens to Earth and will try to stop other people from destroying her with pollutions and clear cutting, and pesticides, and chemical fertilizers, and dumping garbage in our water ways, etc. I will do what I can to help people who are in trouble with relationships, with housing, etc.
Yes, 2000 years ago Christian people might have said "what sin have you committed". The most likely reason for that is that reincarnation was common knowledge at the time of Christ. The Bible has many references to reincarntion, but most of them were taken in in 500 A.D. (see the Dogma post from months ago on this forum). The point is that what was said was problably refering to reincarnation (karma). However, their understanding of reincarnation was probably no better than how most people understand it today. It is not an excuss. It is a responsibility.
More later.
Majic
1. Geological things: Your point is that geological catasthropies happened prior to human beings arriving on Earth. (I will have to agree with you, but you know that there isn't an real "proof" that is the case? It is just a belief, a deduction from what we have observed. Similar to how some people established that reincarnation has "proof".) Never-the-less, I was refering (but didn't state it) to the theory why Atlantis and Lemura had "Earth Changes" and disappeared into the ocean. {Again we don't have proof of that either.} Apparently the society became to egotistic, with no respect for others or Earth. The constant neglect for Earth innitiated earthquakes, etc. that may have cause it to disappear. I was saying that when people have developed a respect for everyone and everything, then these kinds of mishaps are not likely to happen. The bottom line is that if we respect what we do to Earth, then we won't be the cause of destroying her.
2. Everyone is completely responsible for what happens to him/her self. If she wins a million dollars, it is her (fault). If he breaks his leg, it is his (fault).
You say that this will eliminate the need for compassion, the need to solve problems, the need to care, etc. I feel that that is one of the biggest obstictals in accepting reincarnation as a trully fair and just system. I feel the problem is one of misunderstanding.
While things happen to people, and they have caused it, it doesn't mean that it had to happen to such a person. Let's use an example. Let's say that my son gets severly sick at the age of 8 and dies. Do I just let it happen, knowing that it is his responsibility. No. A part of my learning on this planet is to do everything I can to save him. I love my son and I use every bit of compassion that I have. I will do everything I can to save him. (He might know that he will die at age 8, or has planned it before his incarnation to Earth, but I don't know it.) I love my son and will do what I can do. When he does die, I will weep and greeve. I will eventually learn to let go and that life goes on. I could hang on and seek revenge in some way, but that may not be what my growth is all about. I will learn from the experience, along with many other people connected with his death. There is no selfishness or self-centeredness taking place. Only love.
If my daughter broke her arm. I would do everything possible to make her comfortable and to attend to it until it heals. I would teach her to be carefull and be observant and aware to avoid such a thing happening. She will learn how to deal with it. Yes, things will happen as they should, but I don't know when or why they will happen. There is a learning opportunity in all things. We are here to work with our emotions and values. We are here to live in love and not fear.
You mentioned that there would be no community spirit. That is not correct. There will be community spirit because we are are helping each other to learn, to reach their potential. We are all in this together and together we will learn compassion and love. Yes, we are responsible for ourselves, and others are responsible for themselves, but we also have respect for everyone. I respect your view point. I respect your right to do what you want to do. I respect your beliefs (but will attempt to help you if I can see that your beliefs may be distorted).I also respect what happens to Earth and will try to stop other people from destroying her with pollutions and clear cutting, and pesticides, and chemical fertilizers, and dumping garbage in our water ways, etc. I will do what I can to help people who are in trouble with relationships, with housing, etc.
Yes, 2000 years ago Christian people might have said "what sin have you committed". The most likely reason for that is that reincarnation was common knowledge at the time of Christ. The Bible has many references to reincarntion, but most of them were taken in in 500 A.D. (see the Dogma post from months ago on this forum). The point is that what was said was problably refering to reincarnation (karma). However, their understanding of reincarnation was probably no better than how most people understand it today. It is not an excuss. It is a responsibility.
More later.
Majic
Majic
Senior Registered
Morninglight, I'm here to answer the rest of your questions.
You stated that if reincarnation is a law, then life is how it should be. Implying that we can't and shouldn't change it. That is opposite to what reincarnation is all about. We are on Earth to learn. We have all choosen our environment, relationships, situations and problems that will best help us to learn what we need to. We constantly make mistakes in our process of learning. We accept the mistakes as another learning experience and go on from there and try again. Because something happens doesn't mean that it should have or needed to happen. It happened because we have caused it to happen in our attempt to learn. Because we are all in this together, we will want to help each other with our problems and offer advice, knowing that we can't force anything on anyone. Each individual is completely responsible for himself. What she does is her learning experience.
As a Christian society we chose to force Christian value on our Native people. We destroyed their lives, by taking away their values. It happened, but I don't feel it needed to happen. We have made a mistake. We need to try something else to learn from it. The Native people, at the same time weren't innocent. They needed the experience that they experienced for their growth as well. What I'm am saying is that things happen as learning experience, not because they had to happen.
Yes, we have had a long, very long, history of cruel behavior, way before capitalism, etc. They main reason is probably the dogmatic beliefs people were fed by religions that were created to take responsibility away from the people and to gain control and power for a selected few. When people experience fear and "fear God", then they act in fear. We need to evolve to a world of love, and then we will act in love.
4.No, I don't agree that being human is a cause of so many problems. Yes, our humanity is fear based and so our humanism is acted out with fear. If we know love, then we would act in love. Our religion is the instrument we created to create our beliefs, our values. At the head of every religion are people who want power and control. They are the ones who make the rules, the dogma of what they teach. We need to abolish religion somehow, before we can live in love and trust.
Majic
You stated that if reincarnation is a law, then life is how it should be. Implying that we can't and shouldn't change it. That is opposite to what reincarnation is all about. We are on Earth to learn. We have all choosen our environment, relationships, situations and problems that will best help us to learn what we need to. We constantly make mistakes in our process of learning. We accept the mistakes as another learning experience and go on from there and try again. Because something happens doesn't mean that it should have or needed to happen. It happened because we have caused it to happen in our attempt to learn. Because we are all in this together, we will want to help each other with our problems and offer advice, knowing that we can't force anything on anyone. Each individual is completely responsible for himself. What she does is her learning experience.
As a Christian society we chose to force Christian value on our Native people. We destroyed their lives, by taking away their values. It happened, but I don't feel it needed to happen. We have made a mistake. We need to try something else to learn from it. The Native people, at the same time weren't innocent. They needed the experience that they experienced for their growth as well. What I'm am saying is that things happen as learning experience, not because they had to happen.
Yes, we have had a long, very long, history of cruel behavior, way before capitalism, etc. They main reason is probably the dogmatic beliefs people were fed by religions that were created to take responsibility away from the people and to gain control and power for a selected few. When people experience fear and "fear God", then they act in fear. We need to evolve to a world of love, and then we will act in love.
4.No, I don't agree that being human is a cause of so many problems. Yes, our humanity is fear based and so our humanism is acted out with fear. If we know love, then we would act in love. Our religion is the instrument we created to create our beliefs, our values. At the head of every religion are people who want power and control. They are the ones who make the rules, the dogma of what they teach. We need to abolish religion somehow, before we can live in love and trust.
Majic
Majic
Senior Registered
Morninglight, I still have a few more reason how an acceptance in reincarnation will help us all.
This time I want to point out some more concrete and immediate benefits we can look forward to.
The first direct benefit is losing our fear of death. When we know that we are living on this planet to learn particular lessons and will return many times again, it will not be so hard to accept death as simply the transition of the Soul. Death means that we are merely leaving our old body behind the same as we would an old car. There are, however, many different ways in which people choose to discard their bodies. Each of these ways is also a learning experience for the Self - and usually for other people who are involved in that particular life drama. Ultimately, we learn from the ways in which we react to any specific situation; and this, of course, depends on our awareness and involvement in it.
Also, fear has been one of our colossal barriers to knowing and understanding. There is no reason to have a fear of ghost: now that we understand their true nature. They need our help, not our fear. Fear is generated by the unknown. If we can really accept what we have been talking about, then things that "go bump in the night" shouldn't cause any unwarranted fears. On the other hand, fear in a really dangerous situation is valuable because it will move us to immediate action.
Fear is the basis for much of our dis-ease. When we can eliminate our unfounded fears, then we can eliminate most or our medical problems - both physical illness and psychological problems. (I have discussed this in another forum, so I won't repeat it here.)
Majic
This time I want to point out some more concrete and immediate benefits we can look forward to.
The first direct benefit is losing our fear of death. When we know that we are living on this planet to learn particular lessons and will return many times again, it will not be so hard to accept death as simply the transition of the Soul. Death means that we are merely leaving our old body behind the same as we would an old car. There are, however, many different ways in which people choose to discard their bodies. Each of these ways is also a learning experience for the Self - and usually for other people who are involved in that particular life drama. Ultimately, we learn from the ways in which we react to any specific situation; and this, of course, depends on our awareness and involvement in it.
Also, fear has been one of our colossal barriers to knowing and understanding. There is no reason to have a fear of ghost: now that we understand their true nature. They need our help, not our fear. Fear is generated by the unknown. If we can really accept what we have been talking about, then things that "go bump in the night" shouldn't cause any unwarranted fears. On the other hand, fear in a really dangerous situation is valuable because it will move us to immediate action.
Fear is the basis for much of our dis-ease. When we can eliminate our unfounded fears, then we can eliminate most or our medical problems - both physical illness and psychological problems. (I have discussed this in another forum, so I won't repeat it here.)
Majic
Majic
Senior Registered
Vulturess, I would like to comment on your comments.
You said, "Reincarnation is an absolute truth? How is that? There is no such thing as absolute truth. There is no proof of it. There is only strong, steadfast, unbendable faith. No one has seen all the worlds. No one knows. Truth is a matter of perception. And no matter how strongly one believes their truth, that does not make it absolute."
Yes, I too accept that we create our reality in this world. Quantum physics have demonstrated that we can create particles with our attention. It follows that we create our own truth as well. My statement about reincarnation being a turth, or law, is that is is a spiritual law. It is a law, not of Earth, but of Spirit. It is how we in spirit have choosen to learn - to incarnate and experience physical life.
"Do you really think the utopia you speak of can exist without acceptance of people for who they are? Your acceptance has conditions: the people must believe in reincarnation. Unity is not about everyone believing in the same thing. Unity is about diversity being accepted, about poeple living together in peace despite differences."
I don't see how you can say that I am putting conditions on people. People simply come to Earth to learn what they need to learn. They preplaned their experience before they arrive and know their own conditions. Reincarnation is the mechanism for their learning. There can be, and is, a lot of diversity in what people believe. They have free choice - another principle of reincarnation. Respect is another principle as well and people need to respect all other people and the planet they are living on. We are not doing a good job of living in peace at this time in history. Perhaps we need to change our outlook on things. Perhaps our values are not quite right to allow us to live in peace. Maybe another principle, such as reincarnation might create values that will allow us to live in peace. Why don't we want to try something different, especially when we are failing now?
"You have made quite a few judgements about what people are if they don't accept reincarnation as a fact. Like you said, you are only responsible for YOU. Worry about what's within rather than without. Have compassion for everyone's path, whether you think it is enlightened or deluded, good or bad, positive, negative, ignorant, constructive, or destructive."
I'm not being judgemental. I accept that everyone has free choice, that everyone have different "learnings" to accomplish. I respect what people do and say and think. I'm simply pointing out that perhaps there is a principle existing that may create values in people that will help them to be successful in their mission on Earth. We have failed to long for us to think that we have the perfect system. Religions don't seem to help much. Why hang on to them if they don't work. What is wrong with encouraging people to think about other alternatives that may work better. Sure, we are all responsible for what we do. And we might all do different things. I respect that. We are all here to learn, and ultimately to learn together. I have come upon some knowledge that may help us get their faster. That's all.
Majic
You said, "Reincarnation is an absolute truth? How is that? There is no such thing as absolute truth. There is no proof of it. There is only strong, steadfast, unbendable faith. No one has seen all the worlds. No one knows. Truth is a matter of perception. And no matter how strongly one believes their truth, that does not make it absolute."
Yes, I too accept that we create our reality in this world. Quantum physics have demonstrated that we can create particles with our attention. It follows that we create our own truth as well. My statement about reincarnation being a turth, or law, is that is is a spiritual law. It is a law, not of Earth, but of Spirit. It is how we in spirit have choosen to learn - to incarnate and experience physical life.
"Do you really think the utopia you speak of can exist without acceptance of people for who they are? Your acceptance has conditions: the people must believe in reincarnation. Unity is not about everyone believing in the same thing. Unity is about diversity being accepted, about poeple living together in peace despite differences."
I don't see how you can say that I am putting conditions on people. People simply come to Earth to learn what they need to learn. They preplaned their experience before they arrive and know their own conditions. Reincarnation is the mechanism for their learning. There can be, and is, a lot of diversity in what people believe. They have free choice - another principle of reincarnation. Respect is another principle as well and people need to respect all other people and the planet they are living on. We are not doing a good job of living in peace at this time in history. Perhaps we need to change our outlook on things. Perhaps our values are not quite right to allow us to live in peace. Maybe another principle, such as reincarnation might create values that will allow us to live in peace. Why don't we want to try something different, especially when we are failing now?
"You have made quite a few judgements about what people are if they don't accept reincarnation as a fact. Like you said, you are only responsible for YOU. Worry about what's within rather than without. Have compassion for everyone's path, whether you think it is enlightened or deluded, good or bad, positive, negative, ignorant, constructive, or destructive."
I'm not being judgemental. I accept that everyone has free choice, that everyone have different "learnings" to accomplish. I respect what people do and say and think. I'm simply pointing out that perhaps there is a principle existing that may create values in people that will help them to be successful in their mission on Earth. We have failed to long for us to think that we have the perfect system. Religions don't seem to help much. Why hang on to them if they don't work. What is wrong with encouraging people to think about other alternatives that may work better. Sure, we are all responsible for what we do. And we might all do different things. I respect that. We are all here to learn, and ultimately to learn together. I have come upon some knowledge that may help us get their faster. That's all.
Majic
Charles Stuart
Senior Registered
Hello all,
I have been following the discussions and would just like to add that I also believe that true evidence, if this were possible, would indeed change the world as we know it. If it were possible to prove reincarnation as a fact, this would inevitably create a major change in the world. I do not know if the result would be as utopic as Majic says (in fact I believe that all that you mentioned, Majic, is a reality in the Spiritual Universe, where all these "realities" are known).
If it were possible for this knowledge to be reached here in the material world, we would indeed have "Heaven on Earth".
What I can say is how much my personal knowledge regarding reincarnation (and I agree with you that it is a fact, and personal beliefs do not change this reality) has changed my own personal outlook of the world. It has brought me far more acceptance and understanding of how things work and the reasons behind certain things. It has brought me far greater love for the world around me, and I agree that if more people knew this as TRUE, it would very probably have a similar effect on mankind. If reincarnation could be proved, it would have to be accepted as an "absolute truth", and this knowledge would indeed change the world. It would mean as much of a significant change in mankind's way of thinking as the Darwin theory of evolution, except that it would have the opposite effect of mankind returning its thoughts back from science towards spirituality rather than from spirituality to science, as has been happening in the last few centuries.
If indeed reincarnation could be proved, this would mean that certain religious dogmas would have to be reconsidered. I am not personally against religion, for religions have been a necessary instrument throughout centuries to put mankind's evil tendencies on hold, even though they have often created the opposite effect. But, as someone said in a previous post, this is not a mistake of religion itself. It is a human mistake. Religion is not the causer, mankind's interpretation is...
Love to all,
Charles
I have been following the discussions and would just like to add that I also believe that true evidence, if this were possible, would indeed change the world as we know it. If it were possible to prove reincarnation as a fact, this would inevitably create a major change in the world. I do not know if the result would be as utopic as Majic says (in fact I believe that all that you mentioned, Majic, is a reality in the Spiritual Universe, where all these "realities" are known).
If it were possible for this knowledge to be reached here in the material world, we would indeed have "Heaven on Earth".
What I can say is how much my personal knowledge regarding reincarnation (and I agree with you that it is a fact, and personal beliefs do not change this reality) has changed my own personal outlook of the world. It has brought me far more acceptance and understanding of how things work and the reasons behind certain things. It has brought me far greater love for the world around me, and I agree that if more people knew this as TRUE, it would very probably have a similar effect on mankind. If reincarnation could be proved, it would have to be accepted as an "absolute truth", and this knowledge would indeed change the world. It would mean as much of a significant change in mankind's way of thinking as the Darwin theory of evolution, except that it would have the opposite effect of mankind returning its thoughts back from science towards spirituality rather than from spirituality to science, as has been happening in the last few centuries.
If indeed reincarnation could be proved, this would mean that certain religious dogmas would have to be reconsidered. I am not personally against religion, for religions have been a necessary instrument throughout centuries to put mankind's evil tendencies on hold, even though they have often created the opposite effect. But, as someone said in a previous post, this is not a mistake of religion itself. It is a human mistake. Religion is not the causer, mankind's interpretation is...
Love to all,
Charles
Morninglight
New Member
Hello again, Majic,
Thank you for your responses. I'm in substantial agreement with what you have said.
I have another question. World's population is approximately 6 billion people. Originally, the planet did not have anywhere close to that number when homo sapiens became humans. If people are reincarnated many lifetimes, where did all the 6 billion come from? Do they come from other planets or dimensions, or do you believe animals are reincarnated as humans? I don't believe that animal souls become human, only that human souls are reincarnated as humans.
If reincarnation is the law of the cosmos, we humans aren't too bright. We haven't learned much because we wouldn't keep returning to an overpopulated planet.
I'm also curious why you are so anti-religion? Yes, people in power use it as a way of controlling people, and terrible things have been done in the name of God, but what is your particular reason?
Morninglight
Thank you for your responses. I'm in substantial agreement with what you have said.
I have another question. World's population is approximately 6 billion people. Originally, the planet did not have anywhere close to that number when homo sapiens became humans. If people are reincarnated many lifetimes, where did all the 6 billion come from? Do they come from other planets or dimensions, or do you believe animals are reincarnated as humans? I don't believe that animal souls become human, only that human souls are reincarnated as humans.
If reincarnation is the law of the cosmos, we humans aren't too bright. We haven't learned much because we wouldn't keep returning to an overpopulated planet.
I'm also curious why you are so anti-religion? Yes, people in power use it as a way of controlling people, and terrible things have been done in the name of God, but what is your particular reason?
Morninglight
Majic
Senior Registered
Morninglight (I like that name)
You asked about overpopulation. You are absolutely right about people living on other planets. There are millions of stars out there and around most of the stars are planets. Why are we so egotisical in thinking that we are unique in this universe. The life-forms out there may not be the same as the humans that we know about, but could be of different frequencies. For example: our visual specturm is only a glimpse compared to the total light spectrum that even we can measure now, and probably goes way beyond that as well. Why couldn't people exist in other vibrations or spectrums of light? Also, my research has indicated that there are definitely other dimensions out there. That means there are other planets at frequencies that we cannot see (simular to people we cannot see.)
When we are in Spirit we pre-plan our environment, relationships etc. before we incarnate again. We also choose our planet to live on. Each planet may be unique in what it can offer as a learning experience for us. Earth offers certain qualities that we need to learn, but there may be many other qualities that people are not even conscious of that we must learn, and other planets will provide that experience. UFO's are not a myth.
Also, there has been research done and evidence gather to suggest that we did indeed evolve spiritually from mineral, plants, animals to humans and beyond. Apparently once a particular state is reached there is no going back. The Hindu people in India got it wrong. We will not reincarnate as a snake or rat, etc. That is only a mechanism they use to produce fear in individuals as way to control them to behave. (I think they call it transmigration)There is evidence that plant souls and animal souls are "group souls". That means they are not individulized like the human souls are. We are individulized, yet we have a strong connection to the group on the Spirit level.
Your right, because of religion (especially the Catholic religion) people are told not to use contraceptives or control birth by any means. They want them to produce babies, so that more children will be born into their religion. Resulting in more people to control and more money to be made and more power to have, etc. Religion makes us dumb, because we don't think for ourselves. Some of us know that overpopulation can be a disaster on Earth, but people who have "faith in the religion" feel that their authority knows something that we common people cannot see. They think God will take care of the overpopulation thing. The truth is that we are responsible for what happens on Earth. (Don't forget, we are spirit, and all a part of the same spirit, which can be referred to as god, Therefore we are all gods,all co-creators of the universe. Not some outside person with a beard, making rules and giving favors to those who ask (pray).)
The last question you aske was why am I anti-religious? The comments above will give you some hints. What I have said in many threads of this Forum will give you more hints. I am not angery or do I "hate" religions. I simply came to the realization that religions are totally man-made, and used for the purpose of control. One of their favorite control methods is fear - "fear God". Religions have caused most of the wars we have engaged in, in the past and now in the present. Religion is a method to brain-wash people into believing anything they want them to believe. Are suicide bombers thinking in their right mind? Our religion in North America, Christianity, is one of the worst. I accept that Jesus was a real person, who discovered truth about the world, much like we are today. About 300 years after the event, people got together to form the dogma of christianity. (It seemed to be spearheaded by Paul earilier.) They purposely took out most references to reincarnation which removes responsibility and thus creates more control and power for the "priest". We are brain-washed into thinking that religion is good for us, even though there are hundreds of different variations of the original propaganda.
It is a worn out untruth to keep saying we have freedom of religion. That was only created to avoid more wars between the different sets of beliefs created. The church has become so powerful that most people are afraid to say anything aganist them. If we use logic and common sense we can start seeing the "futility" of it all. We have been lied too, and coercehed, and fed gobbly-gup that there couldn't possible be any truth in it. (Forgive my spelling, please) I have been studying this area for quite some time and can see the reality of the dogma being fed us.. We have to make a stand and try to set the world on a corrective course.
Charles.
Religion was created to try to put man's "evil" tencencies on hold, but it tried to do it with fear. Fear begets fear. It doesn't work. Only understanding will work. So religion can't be given any merit for trying to control people in that way.
Yes, Charles, it is mankinds interpretation of "spirituality" that is the cause of our problems. Religion is an interpretation of spirituality, shaped to produce power and control. It is this power - religion- that is the cause of our problems. Believing in God is okay, but the dogma the church has put on the process is the "evil" of this world.
Majic
You asked about overpopulation. You are absolutely right about people living on other planets. There are millions of stars out there and around most of the stars are planets. Why are we so egotisical in thinking that we are unique in this universe. The life-forms out there may not be the same as the humans that we know about, but could be of different frequencies. For example: our visual specturm is only a glimpse compared to the total light spectrum that even we can measure now, and probably goes way beyond that as well. Why couldn't people exist in other vibrations or spectrums of light? Also, my research has indicated that there are definitely other dimensions out there. That means there are other planets at frequencies that we cannot see (simular to people we cannot see.)
When we are in Spirit we pre-plan our environment, relationships etc. before we incarnate again. We also choose our planet to live on. Each planet may be unique in what it can offer as a learning experience for us. Earth offers certain qualities that we need to learn, but there may be many other qualities that people are not even conscious of that we must learn, and other planets will provide that experience. UFO's are not a myth.
Also, there has been research done and evidence gather to suggest that we did indeed evolve spiritually from mineral, plants, animals to humans and beyond. Apparently once a particular state is reached there is no going back. The Hindu people in India got it wrong. We will not reincarnate as a snake or rat, etc. That is only a mechanism they use to produce fear in individuals as way to control them to behave. (I think they call it transmigration)There is evidence that plant souls and animal souls are "group souls". That means they are not individulized like the human souls are. We are individulized, yet we have a strong connection to the group on the Spirit level.
Your right, because of religion (especially the Catholic religion) people are told not to use contraceptives or control birth by any means. They want them to produce babies, so that more children will be born into their religion. Resulting in more people to control and more money to be made and more power to have, etc. Religion makes us dumb, because we don't think for ourselves. Some of us know that overpopulation can be a disaster on Earth, but people who have "faith in the religion" feel that their authority knows something that we common people cannot see. They think God will take care of the overpopulation thing. The truth is that we are responsible for what happens on Earth. (Don't forget, we are spirit, and all a part of the same spirit, which can be referred to as god, Therefore we are all gods,all co-creators of the universe. Not some outside person with a beard, making rules and giving favors to those who ask (pray).)
The last question you aske was why am I anti-religious? The comments above will give you some hints. What I have said in many threads of this Forum will give you more hints. I am not angery or do I "hate" religions. I simply came to the realization that religions are totally man-made, and used for the purpose of control. One of their favorite control methods is fear - "fear God". Religions have caused most of the wars we have engaged in, in the past and now in the present. Religion is a method to brain-wash people into believing anything they want them to believe. Are suicide bombers thinking in their right mind? Our religion in North America, Christianity, is one of the worst. I accept that Jesus was a real person, who discovered truth about the world, much like we are today. About 300 years after the event, people got together to form the dogma of christianity. (It seemed to be spearheaded by Paul earilier.) They purposely took out most references to reincarnation which removes responsibility and thus creates more control and power for the "priest". We are brain-washed into thinking that religion is good for us, even though there are hundreds of different variations of the original propaganda.
It is a worn out untruth to keep saying we have freedom of religion. That was only created to avoid more wars between the different sets of beliefs created. The church has become so powerful that most people are afraid to say anything aganist them. If we use logic and common sense we can start seeing the "futility" of it all. We have been lied too, and coercehed, and fed gobbly-gup that there couldn't possible be any truth in it. (Forgive my spelling, please) I have been studying this area for quite some time and can see the reality of the dogma being fed us.. We have to make a stand and try to set the world on a corrective course.
Charles.
Religion was created to try to put man's "evil" tencencies on hold, but it tried to do it with fear. Fear begets fear. It doesn't work. Only understanding will work. So religion can't be given any merit for trying to control people in that way.
Yes, Charles, it is mankinds interpretation of "spirituality" that is the cause of our problems. Religion is an interpretation of spirituality, shaped to produce power and control. It is this power - religion- that is the cause of our problems. Believing in God is okay, but the dogma the church has put on the process is the "evil" of this world.
Majic
Charles Stuart
Senior Registered
OK, let me reply in stages...
Regarding minerals, plants, animals and humans: they are different levels of consciousness.
Stage 1 is mineral.
Stage 2 (plants) involves the mineral stage (plants feed from minerals) and a next step in consciousness, for a plant LIVES. It is born from seed, grows, reproduces and dies.
Stage 3 (animals) involves the two previous stages plus a next step, which is awareness, instinct...
Stage 4 (humans) involves the three previous stages plus awareness of itself.
There are four more stages:
Stage 5 would correspond to genius.
Stage 6 to that of a prophet, in close association with the divine.
Stage 7 would correspond to Higher Consciousness (Contact with the Divine).
Stage 8 would be Union with the Divine, with the Primordial Force (not a stage for our level of consciousness here on Earth).
I would agree with your belief that we ALL progress through these stages, but this is a personal opinion, as must be yours, for I cannot know for certain.
Regarding religion. I would like to reinforce my opinion that it is not what is contained in religion that is the causer of error, but the inability to interpret the messages. The bible is not wrong, it is we (humanity) who has interpreted what is written there and what was taught by Jesus erroneously. Maybe you are not being clear regarding what you mean by "religion" and what we call "churches", "dogmas", "doctrines"...
In the bible, there are several references to reincarnation. The "founders of the church" just decided to ignore them (or were not able to interpret them under the right light) and presented them under a different version.
An example: when the Talibans believe that by "dying in defense of one's religion" they will become celestial princes, this is a tragic misinterpretation. Dying for one's beliefs, or dying for trying to express what is right, such as jesus did, is one thing. Killing others in the process of attempting to enforce one's personal beliefs is something entirely different. An error, by any light of understanding...
Light,
Charles
[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 10-22-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 10-22-2001).]
Regarding minerals, plants, animals and humans: they are different levels of consciousness.
Stage 1 is mineral.
Stage 2 (plants) involves the mineral stage (plants feed from minerals) and a next step in consciousness, for a plant LIVES. It is born from seed, grows, reproduces and dies.
Stage 3 (animals) involves the two previous stages plus a next step, which is awareness, instinct...
Stage 4 (humans) involves the three previous stages plus awareness of itself.
There are four more stages:
Stage 5 would correspond to genius.
Stage 6 to that of a prophet, in close association with the divine.
Stage 7 would correspond to Higher Consciousness (Contact with the Divine).
Stage 8 would be Union with the Divine, with the Primordial Force (not a stage for our level of consciousness here on Earth).
I would agree with your belief that we ALL progress through these stages, but this is a personal opinion, as must be yours, for I cannot know for certain.
Regarding religion. I would like to reinforce my opinion that it is not what is contained in religion that is the causer of error, but the inability to interpret the messages. The bible is not wrong, it is we (humanity) who has interpreted what is written there and what was taught by Jesus erroneously. Maybe you are not being clear regarding what you mean by "religion" and what we call "churches", "dogmas", "doctrines"...
In the bible, there are several references to reincarnation. The "founders of the church" just decided to ignore them (or were not able to interpret them under the right light) and presented them under a different version.
An example: when the Talibans believe that by "dying in defense of one's religion" they will become celestial princes, this is a tragic misinterpretation. Dying for one's beliefs, or dying for trying to express what is right, such as jesus did, is one thing. Killing others in the process of attempting to enforce one's personal beliefs is something entirely different. An error, by any light of understanding...
Light,
Charles
[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 10-22-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 10-22-2001).]
Charles Stuart
Senior Registered
Oh, just a "P.S." and "By the way":
What definition could we give to the fact that an estimated 7 million Afghans are probably going to die in the coming winter?
What definition to the fact that one Tomahawk missile, worth an estimated 1.5 million dollars, could be used instead to save 20.000 Afghans at the frontier with Pakistan from starvation for a whole month?
God help us...
Majic, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I do so wish that more people in this world could know that reincarnation is a fact. That we are more than just these flesh and bones. That there is so much more...
Morninglight,
The fact that there are 6 billion people in this world at this time is not mere coincidence. There are countless souls in the universe, but we are all here now for a reason... Personally, I think the main reason is so that we can all look at what a *&$%#@ we have been making of this world throughout milleniums, and perhaps now start to understand and learn...
Good night to all,
Charles
[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 10-22-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 10-22-2001).]
What definition could we give to the fact that an estimated 7 million Afghans are probably going to die in the coming winter?
What definition to the fact that one Tomahawk missile, worth an estimated 1.5 million dollars, could be used instead to save 20.000 Afghans at the frontier with Pakistan from starvation for a whole month?
God help us...
Majic, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I do so wish that more people in this world could know that reincarnation is a fact. That we are more than just these flesh and bones. That there is so much more...
Morninglight,
The fact that there are 6 billion people in this world at this time is not mere coincidence. There are countless souls in the universe, but we are all here now for a reason... Personally, I think the main reason is so that we can all look at what a *&$%#@ we have been making of this world throughout milleniums, and perhaps now start to understand and learn...
Good night to all,
Charles
[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 10-22-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 10-22-2001).]
Majic
Senior Registered
Charles;
The Bible is not the word of God. It is a compilation of stories, journals, essays, myths and conjectures that have been translated, and retranslated, admended, interpreted, edited, and simply changed to promote a particular point. Check all of the new Bible edition compared to the "standard" King James Version. You will noticed many different interpretations. The references pertaining to reincarnation in the King James version is now taken out, in most cases, or at least a different translation of them. God didn't write the Bible. Jesus didn't write the Bible. It was writen by a group of people over a very long time. It was and is used to prove points that people want to make, with no validity in it.
Sure the New Testiment speaks a lot about love and forgiveness and things "nice". But it also speaks of fear and revenge and things not nice. The old Testiment is full of killings, and revenge and stupid rules and is fear based.
That is the book that our Nation's religion is trying to base things on. That is why there are hundreds of different denominations of churches - different interpretations of what was written. How can you say it is the fault of the reader to misinturpret the Bible? The "priest" are trying to intrepret it for us. (Did you know that before the sixties, Priest in the Caholic church didn't want people to read the bible. They wanted the power to translate it and control the people.)
If there were a book filled with logic and was known to be a turth, then people would follow it, without misinterpretation. There is none. We must some how break free of the hold that our religion has on us. We must open our eyes to the reality that we have been mislead for centuries. We must swallow our pride and admit that we have been hoodwinked. We must forgive and go on from here. One direction to go is to abandon the source of our problems - religion - and start accepting a logical system called reincarnation.
Majic
The Bible is not the word of God. It is a compilation of stories, journals, essays, myths and conjectures that have been translated, and retranslated, admended, interpreted, edited, and simply changed to promote a particular point. Check all of the new Bible edition compared to the "standard" King James Version. You will noticed many different interpretations. The references pertaining to reincarnation in the King James version is now taken out, in most cases, or at least a different translation of them. God didn't write the Bible. Jesus didn't write the Bible. It was writen by a group of people over a very long time. It was and is used to prove points that people want to make, with no validity in it.
Sure the New Testiment speaks a lot about love and forgiveness and things "nice". But it also speaks of fear and revenge and things not nice. The old Testiment is full of killings, and revenge and stupid rules and is fear based.
That is the book that our Nation's religion is trying to base things on. That is why there are hundreds of different denominations of churches - different interpretations of what was written. How can you say it is the fault of the reader to misinturpret the Bible? The "priest" are trying to intrepret it for us. (Did you know that before the sixties, Priest in the Caholic church didn't want people to read the bible. They wanted the power to translate it and control the people.)
If there were a book filled with logic and was known to be a turth, then people would follow it, without misinterpretation. There is none. We must some how break free of the hold that our religion has on us. We must open our eyes to the reality that we have been mislead for centuries. We must swallow our pride and admit that we have been hoodwinked. We must forgive and go on from here. One direction to go is to abandon the source of our problems - religion - and start accepting a logical system called reincarnation.
Majic
Charles Stuart
Senior Registered
Majic,
I wouldn't like to prolong this debate too much... Indeed the bible may contain certain errors, but the New Testament in particular contains several messages of love. Jesus's preachings were all based on love. Love for God (Creation) and for one another.
There are indeed several passages in it that mention reincarnation as a natural law of God. What I do feel, and agree with you entirely, is that several of its passages were manipulated in order to better suit the interests of the Church. And it is needless to say how much wrong doing the Church has commited over the centuries, as have other religions... This is what I meant by saying that the mistakes have been in its interpretation.
I cannot find anything evil in the teachings of the New Testament, only in the way they have been interpreted and presented, particularly regarding the passages that mention reincarnation.
However, most of the rest of it, in my opinion, contains messages of great beauty and truth.
Charles
I wouldn't like to prolong this debate too much... Indeed the bible may contain certain errors, but the New Testament in particular contains several messages of love. Jesus's preachings were all based on love. Love for God (Creation) and for one another.
There are indeed several passages in it that mention reincarnation as a natural law of God. What I do feel, and agree with you entirely, is that several of its passages were manipulated in order to better suit the interests of the Church. And it is needless to say how much wrong doing the Church has commited over the centuries, as have other religions... This is what I meant by saying that the mistakes have been in its interpretation.
I cannot find anything evil in the teachings of the New Testament, only in the way they have been interpreted and presented, particularly regarding the passages that mention reincarnation.
However, most of the rest of it, in my opinion, contains messages of great beauty and truth.
Charles
Hi,
Here's something for you two -- it puts the original question in a tail spin.. but that's what makes it interesting! *S*S*S
Quantum physics suggests that we are NOT discovery reality -- but participating in it's creation. Physicists say we NEED TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO SAY that we have discovered a particular pattern or structure, especially regarding consciousness and or energy.
The problem they say, is due to the fact that we have created what it is we proclaim to have found.
Just some food for thought.
------------------
Love and Light,
Deborah
The soul's Center...is God.
Here's something for you two -- it puts the original question in a tail spin.. but that's what makes it interesting! *S*S*S
Quantum physics suggests that we are NOT discovery reality -- but participating in it's creation. Physicists say we NEED TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO SAY that we have discovered a particular pattern or structure, especially regarding consciousness and or energy.
The problem they say, is due to the fact that we have created what it is we proclaim to have found.
Just some food for thought.
------------------
Love and Light,
Deborah
The soul's Center...is God.
Majic
Senior Registered
Charles;
Yes, Jesus taught love and forgiveness, and it is a big part of the Bible. It is all the other stuff that I object to - the controlling part, the fear part, the dogma part. If we can't learn the concept of love and forgiveness from Jesus without the baggage that he is the son of God; that he died for our sins; that he was born from a virgin; etc., then maybe we should learn about love and forgiveness from other great sources.
Deborah;
We have already recognized the Quantum physics notion of creating the universe in our discussions. Yes, we are co-creators of our world. Perhaps we have all created reincarnation and therefore it is a fact of our existance. Or, perhaps it is an ultimate law, acting as the guiding force for our existance. None-the-less, it is a part of the struture of our lives. Our job now is to "prove" it so that others will shed the cloud of their religions and understand their purpose in life.
Majic.
Yes, Jesus taught love and forgiveness, and it is a big part of the Bible. It is all the other stuff that I object to - the controlling part, the fear part, the dogma part. If we can't learn the concept of love and forgiveness from Jesus without the baggage that he is the son of God; that he died for our sins; that he was born from a virgin; etc., then maybe we should learn about love and forgiveness from other great sources.
Deborah;
We have already recognized the Quantum physics notion of creating the universe in our discussions. Yes, we are co-creators of our world. Perhaps we have all created reincarnation and therefore it is a fact of our existance. Or, perhaps it is an ultimate law, acting as the guiding force for our existance. None-the-less, it is a part of the struture of our lives. Our job now is to "prove" it so that others will shed the cloud of their religions and understand their purpose in life.
Majic.
There is one thing I ponder on. Aren't there people that try to oppose unity of soul, that live their ego and define their religion as satanism, whatever they mean by that, but believe in reincarnation, believe in being able to control reincarnation? It would be at home in the worship of bloodline.
What a mess of mind.
What a mess of mind.
Majic
Senior Registered
Justin;
The world is full of strange, dependant people. Because few people want to take responsibiliity for themselves, many will follow any gobbly-goop that seems interesting to them. A lot of young people are getting hooked on witchcraft right now, because they feel it is "cool" to do something in protest of their standard cultural religion.
I often wonder if many people would even consider living without a religion of some sort - something that will take the responsiblility away from them. If the truth about reincarnation could be proven, most people would probably think it is too much work to be responsible for themselves. We have to overcome that barrier if we are going to evolve on this planet.
Majic
[This message has been edited by Majic (edited 10-25-2001).]
The world is full of strange, dependant people. Because few people want to take responsibiliity for themselves, many will follow any gobbly-goop that seems interesting to them. A lot of young people are getting hooked on witchcraft right now, because they feel it is "cool" to do something in protest of their standard cultural religion.
I often wonder if many people would even consider living without a religion of some sort - something that will take the responsiblility away from them. If the truth about reincarnation could be proven, most people would probably think it is too much work to be responsible for themselves. We have to overcome that barrier if we are going to evolve on this planet.
Majic
[This message has been edited by Majic (edited 10-25-2001).]
Charles Stuart
Senior Registered
Hi,
Personally, I believe the term "Satanism" means "that which is material", or "related to the material world", and not some big, bad devil lingering out there and trying to conduct everyone to evil. "Satan" is opposed to "God" in the sense that one is related to that which is material, the other to that which is spiritual.
It is for this reason that "Satan", the "Devil", is pictured as a man with animal (materialist) characteristics, with hoofs, horns and a tail.
As spirits, our objective is to ambition for that which is spiritual, and not material.
Charles
Personally, I believe the term "Satanism" means "that which is material", or "related to the material world", and not some big, bad devil lingering out there and trying to conduct everyone to evil. "Satan" is opposed to "God" in the sense that one is related to that which is material, the other to that which is spiritual.
It is for this reason that "Satan", the "Devil", is pictured as a man with animal (materialist) characteristics, with hoofs, horns and a tail.
As spirits, our objective is to ambition for that which is spiritual, and not material.
Charles
Satanism is a vast field with many facettes. It is not a phenomen of youth, I am afraid that is what some want to tell you to make it appear harmless. It is known that in masonry satanist symbolism is used all the way. These people don't want to be evil, or say, not only evil, but free the world. Take Aleister Crowley as an example. But also the ritual at Bohemian Grove bases on satanist values.
See http://www.infowars.com/bg7.html
I met claimed satanists. They are grown up yuppies.
See http://www.infowars.com/bg7.html
I met claimed satanists. They are grown up yuppies.
Majic
Senior Registered
Oh, come on, Charles!
God is pictured as a old man with a beard. Does that make him materialistic too? You are doing what the proponents of religions have been doing for years - putting your own personal interpretation on things.
Satanism is the workship of the Devil - saying the Lords prayer backwards etc. (I know there is no entity know as the Devil anyway. He is the created "fear" that Christianity has developed.) It is just another created religion with dogma, etc. Just because I enjoy a computer (materialism) doesn't mean I'm into Satanism.
And besides: what has this to do with finding proof for reincarnation?
Majic
God is pictured as a old man with a beard. Does that make him materialistic too? You are doing what the proponents of religions have been doing for years - putting your own personal interpretation on things.
Satanism is the workship of the Devil - saying the Lords prayer backwards etc. (I know there is no entity know as the Devil anyway. He is the created "fear" that Christianity has developed.) It is just another created religion with dogma, etc. Just because I enjoy a computer (materialism) doesn't mean I'm into Satanism.
And besides: what has this to do with finding proof for reincarnation?
Majic
Your right Majic.
It has to do with reincarnation, as Satanist too believe in reincarnation, some of them.
The ones that I know (who call themselves Satanists), do so, and are very konformist yuppies with family. They oppose Jesus, but are always in a good mood and very friendly. They are very materialist and praise the ego.. They DO NOT want to be evil, not only, but see the evil as natural part of soul and look lots of bloody videos.
But maybe things like Reverse Speech could help stoping people cheating on each other... http://www.reversespeech.com/
It has to do with reincarnation, as Satanist too believe in reincarnation, some of them.
The ones that I know (who call themselves Satanists), do so, and are very konformist yuppies with family. They oppose Jesus, but are always in a good mood and very friendly. They are very materialist and praise the ego.. They DO NOT want to be evil, not only, but see the evil as natural part of soul and look lots of bloody videos.
But maybe things like Reverse Speech could help stoping people cheating on each other... http://www.reversespeech.com/
nexus
Senior Registered
Charles,
I was actually trying to see your analysis of the Bible as pure unbiased literary interpetation..How WRONG I was!!
Does it say in the Bible that animals are all material? If so...I guess that is why there is so much animal abuse by God-fearing humans who are "after all" SPIRITUAL beings above "belongings" , like animals and pots and pans!,who can justifiably be...killed maimed(broken and tossed around in the case of pots and pans) and disposed of when we have no more use for them.I KNOW of what I speak...having had a lot of experience with animals, wild and OWNED by humans.
Come to think of it, weren't the slaves also OWNED by "higher beings"?Lots of Bible-FEARING owners, in the southern American states!
Were you aware that almost all serial killers have had a history of animal abuse? Social workers and police look for this kind of behaviour in cases of suspected wife, child and other abuse cases. This is a very accepted fact!
What right do you have to judge any life form as less than you? From this "biblical"? teaching therefore must follow that SOME humans are also less than others...Maybe those who do not believe in the teachings of Christianity...perhaps?..Pagan religions, natives?...or are they just not "wise" enough to KNOW the REAL truth?YET?
More and more I am seeing the BLINDERS that religions (Christianity is one of the worst!)puts on people. You do not even SEE what you are saying!
Is it your intent to TEACH those "poor souls" how to rise above the "animal" state?
Sorry for the tone in my writing. I am rarely disturbed like this...but such ignorance reminds me that I am often too "accepting".This is certainly not the first time I have heard this "truth" and I DO NOT ACCEPT what you have learned from YOUR interpretation of the Bible!
Why don't you quote me where you get this truth about animals being material?
I need to cool off. Be back later>>>
Nexus
[This message has been edited by nexus (edited 10-26-2001).]
I was actually trying to see your analysis of the Bible as pure unbiased literary interpetation..How WRONG I was!!
Does it say in the Bible that animals are all material? If so...I guess that is why there is so much animal abuse by God-fearing humans who are "after all" SPIRITUAL beings above "belongings" , like animals and pots and pans!,who can justifiably be...killed maimed(broken and tossed around in the case of pots and pans) and disposed of when we have no more use for them.I KNOW of what I speak...having had a lot of experience with animals, wild and OWNED by humans.
Come to think of it, weren't the slaves also OWNED by "higher beings"?Lots of Bible-FEARING owners, in the southern American states!
Were you aware that almost all serial killers have had a history of animal abuse? Social workers and police look for this kind of behaviour in cases of suspected wife, child and other abuse cases. This is a very accepted fact!
What right do you have to judge any life form as less than you? From this "biblical"? teaching therefore must follow that SOME humans are also less than others...Maybe those who do not believe in the teachings of Christianity...perhaps?..Pagan religions, natives?...or are they just not "wise" enough to KNOW the REAL truth?YET?
More and more I am seeing the BLINDERS that religions (Christianity is one of the worst!)puts on people. You do not even SEE what you are saying!
Is it your intent to TEACH those "poor souls" how to rise above the "animal" state?
Sorry for the tone in my writing. I am rarely disturbed like this...but such ignorance reminds me that I am often too "accepting".This is certainly not the first time I have heard this "truth" and I DO NOT ACCEPT what you have learned from YOUR interpretation of the Bible!
Why don't you quote me where you get this truth about animals being material?
I need to cool off. Be back later>>>
Nexus
[This message has been edited by nexus (edited 10-26-2001).]
Nexus,
I share your emotion 100%
I feel to share my opinion with one of the best explonation I find in a subject.
"The Nature of the Psyche" by/JaneRobert/Seth.
"Each species is involved in a cooperative venture upon which ultimately all earthly excistence rest. You project your present beliefs bacwards into history, and you missinterpret many of the condition that you observe in the natural world. This cooperation that I speak of is based on LOVE, and that LOVE has a biological as well as spritiual basis. Your belief's example cause you deny the excistence of emotion in animals and any instances of love among them assigned to "blind" instinct.
The churches and scientist are responsible, but priest and scientists are not some foreign people, thrust upon on you. They represent various aspects of yourselves. The species developed its own kind of consciousness as it find necessary to isolate itself to some degree from its environment and the other creatures with in.
As a result the religions preached that only man had a soul and was dignified by emotional feelings. In its way science went along very nicely by postulating man in a mechanic world, with each creature run by an impeccable machine if instinct, blind alike to pain and desire.
The LOVE and cooperation that forms the basis of ALL LIFE, however shows itself in many ways."
------------------
Dora
I share your emotion 100%
I feel to share my opinion with one of the best explonation I find in a subject.
"The Nature of the Psyche" by/JaneRobert/Seth.
"Each species is involved in a cooperative venture upon which ultimately all earthly excistence rest. You project your present beliefs bacwards into history, and you missinterpret many of the condition that you observe in the natural world. This cooperation that I speak of is based on LOVE, and that LOVE has a biological as well as spritiual basis. Your belief's example cause you deny the excistence of emotion in animals and any instances of love among them assigned to "blind" instinct.
The churches and scientist are responsible, but priest and scientists are not some foreign people, thrust upon on you. They represent various aspects of yourselves. The species developed its own kind of consciousness as it find necessary to isolate itself to some degree from its environment and the other creatures with in.
As a result the religions preached that only man had a soul and was dignified by emotional feelings. In its way science went along very nicely by postulating man in a mechanic world, with each creature run by an impeccable machine if instinct, blind alike to pain and desire.
The LOVE and cooperation that forms the basis of ALL LIFE, however shows itself in many ways."
------------------
Dora
Let's breathe and take a closer look at what the word means --
Satan is a Hebrew word. It is spelled in Hebrew, seen-tayt-noon. In colloquial Hebrew it means the adversary or accuser as well as its English meaning.
Each of its three letters is also a "word." They each in turn have meaning.
According to the Qabala, seen represents a movement -- a universal or cosmic motion-one that underlies the movement of all things in the universe. It is pictured by Qabalists as the "breath of God" returning from the material plane back to the infinity of God.
Tayt represents a primitive cellular structure. It could be a living cell, a memory "engram," a neural circuit, or any other analogy representing a basic structure exhibiting the cell-like behavior we understand. It is a feminine concept that tends to enclose energy repeating itself, as a bird builds a nest for egg laying. It is a self-referring concept, one that continues to build itself in its own image.
Finally, noon stands for a high principle operating within the cosmos. This is the principle of cosmic indeterminism.
In the book The Eagle's Quest the following is suggested ---Imagine if Satan represents the cells of our living selves held between the freeing movement of God's breath and the fearful possibility that anything can happen to it. As a result the cell tends to persist in living fear of life-death.
Fred Allan Wolf points out that the vision of a bursting cell and the laser light beam entering it is a quite accurate description of the "action of the cosmic Satan."
It literally disrupts the stasis of the cell, producing doubt and uncertainty. But this was not necessarily,' to be feared or prevented. Without the process of Satan entering the cell, no learning takes place. Nothing new can happen. We would be doomed to repeat all that we do.
Majic, I don't think we could ever cover all our bases regarding Quantum physics. There is just TOO much to cover or to put here in the forum. *S*S*S*S
Charles, I think the above definition describes Satan well, and is hardly "materialist."
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Love and Light,
Deborah
The soul's Center...is God.
[This message has been edited by Deborah (edited 10-26-2001).]
Satan is a Hebrew word. It is spelled in Hebrew, seen-tayt-noon. In colloquial Hebrew it means the adversary or accuser as well as its English meaning.
Each of its three letters is also a "word." They each in turn have meaning.
According to the Qabala, seen represents a movement -- a universal or cosmic motion-one that underlies the movement of all things in the universe. It is pictured by Qabalists as the "breath of God" returning from the material plane back to the infinity of God.
Tayt represents a primitive cellular structure. It could be a living cell, a memory "engram," a neural circuit, or any other analogy representing a basic structure exhibiting the cell-like behavior we understand. It is a feminine concept that tends to enclose energy repeating itself, as a bird builds a nest for egg laying. It is a self-referring concept, one that continues to build itself in its own image.
Finally, noon stands for a high principle operating within the cosmos. This is the principle of cosmic indeterminism.
In the book The Eagle's Quest the following is suggested ---Imagine if Satan represents the cells of our living selves held between the freeing movement of God's breath and the fearful possibility that anything can happen to it. As a result the cell tends to persist in living fear of life-death.
Fred Allan Wolf points out that the vision of a bursting cell and the laser light beam entering it is a quite accurate description of the "action of the cosmic Satan."
It literally disrupts the stasis of the cell, producing doubt and uncertainty. But this was not necessarily,' to be feared or prevented. Without the process of Satan entering the cell, no learning takes place. Nothing new can happen. We would be doomed to repeat all that we do.
Majic, I don't think we could ever cover all our bases regarding Quantum physics. There is just TOO much to cover or to put here in the forum. *S*S*S*S
Charles, I think the above definition describes Satan well, and is hardly "materialist."
------------------
Love and Light,
Deborah
The soul's Center...is God.
[This message has been edited by Deborah (edited 10-26-2001).]
nexus
Senior Registered
To All,
Sorry for veering so far off topic...Even on topic this would fit better in The Bible and Reincarnation.I was just reacting to the random use of Biblical quotations to justify just about anything.This particular association happenned to hit a hot button...but more importantly reminded me how unreliable biblical and for that matter, any interpretation of any book is for PROOF unless the author can be interviewed..This is not my normal style of response.My apologies.
Deborah, I do understand your explanation of the necessity for balance in the world of good and evil.Yin and Yang. The Qabala is a complicated and fascinating study. I have found much wisdom there, too...but it is ALSO the subject of much interpretation.
Nexus
Sorry for veering so far off topic...Even on topic this would fit better in The Bible and Reincarnation.I was just reacting to the random use of Biblical quotations to justify just about anything.This particular association happenned to hit a hot button...but more importantly reminded me how unreliable biblical and for that matter, any interpretation of any book is for PROOF unless the author can be interviewed..This is not my normal style of response.My apologies.
Deborah, I do understand your explanation of the necessity for balance in the world of good and evil.Yin and Yang. The Qabala is a complicated and fascinating study. I have found much wisdom there, too...but it is ALSO the subject of much interpretation.
Nexus
Hi Nexus,
We all have hot buttons. I was only giving the definition of the word SATAN via the Qabala and using physics as a contemporary example for balance. No final say intended....do you have another definition of Satan via the Qabala? I would be very interested in comparing them.
------------------
Love and Light,
Deborah
The soul's Center...is God.
We all have hot buttons. I was only giving the definition of the word SATAN via the Qabala and using physics as a contemporary example for balance. No final say intended....do you have another definition of Satan via the Qabala? I would be very interested in comparing them.
------------------
Love and Light,
Deborah
The soul's Center...is God.
Majic
Senior Registered
Dorika, a very good point you'd made. It wasn't that long ago when they declared that animals didn't have souls. I think it was around the time of Descarte. He and the King worked something out to erase any guilt about killing animals. Take away their souls and then we can do what we want with them. It is just another example of the distorted power Chirstianity has. Animals certainly have souls and are thinking loving entities. They deserve as much respect as any living thing. Don't forget about plants as well - they too have souls.
Why to go Nexus!
Deep thinking Deborah!
The world need stirring up to free itself from all of our false beliefs.
I was thinking, if Ian Stevenson couldn't convince the populist about the reality of reincarnation, then who else has a chance? It is something that will have to "grow" in each of us. It doesn't hurt to "water" it once in a while.
Majic
Why to go Nexus!
Deep thinking Deborah!
The world need stirring up to free itself from all of our false beliefs.
I was thinking, if Ian Stevenson couldn't convince the populist about the reality of reincarnation, then who else has a chance? It is something that will have to "grow" in each of us. It doesn't hurt to "water" it once in a while.
Majic
Charles Stuart
Senior Registered
Boy, I had to re-read my post to try to figure out what it was that I said that brought about such a reaction.
Nexus, I never said anything about animals in the sense that you meant. When I mentioned Satan being pictured with animalist (materialist) features I was meaning in the sense of being more closely imprisoned by "animal" (Earthly) instincts and passions (and I do not mean this in a pejorative way to animals). Certainly animals have souls. Certainly many of them are wonderful creatures, probably even better, in their innocence, than many of us "more evolved" humans.
But as for "lower beings", this would be in the concept of "being less aware", of "having lesser light", and don't come and try to convince me that Bin Laden or someone like him can be placed in the same category as someone like Jesus under the presumption that we are all equal. We were all made equal, yes, we all have the same potential, yes, we are all "God's children" and we are all probably equal under his eyes, but in terms of spiritual advancement and enlightenment, there are different stages, yes...
Charles
[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 10-29-2001).]
Nexus, I never said anything about animals in the sense that you meant. When I mentioned Satan being pictured with animalist (materialist) features I was meaning in the sense of being more closely imprisoned by "animal" (Earthly) instincts and passions (and I do not mean this in a pejorative way to animals). Certainly animals have souls. Certainly many of them are wonderful creatures, probably even better, in their innocence, than many of us "more evolved" humans.
But as for "lower beings", this would be in the concept of "being less aware", of "having lesser light", and don't come and try to convince me that Bin Laden or someone like him can be placed in the same category as someone like Jesus under the presumption that we are all equal. We were all made equal, yes, we all have the same potential, yes, we are all "God's children" and we are all probably equal under his eyes, but in terms of spiritual advancement and enlightenment, there are different stages, yes...
Charles
[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 10-29-2001).]
Charles Stuart
Senior Registered
Nexus,
I would just like to add that the interpretations I posted are not my own, but were provided by spiritual guides and can be found in a book called "The Gospel According to Spiritism", which was written by a Frenchman called Allan Kardec in 1845. In fact, Kardec did not write them himself, but rather he collected, organized and catalogued answers that were given to several mediums by different spirits.
If you can get hold of this book, it is in truth quite beautiful, as it contains several explanations of passages in the bible explained, yes, in what I personally believe, are their true meaning and intention, under the light of reincarnation. And which, under this light, reveal the great truths that have for so long been misunderstood.
Charles
[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 10-29-2001).]
I would just like to add that the interpretations I posted are not my own, but were provided by spiritual guides and can be found in a book called "The Gospel According to Spiritism", which was written by a Frenchman called Allan Kardec in 1845. In fact, Kardec did not write them himself, but rather he collected, organized and catalogued answers that were given to several mediums by different spirits.
If you can get hold of this book, it is in truth quite beautiful, as it contains several explanations of passages in the bible explained, yes, in what I personally believe, are their true meaning and intention, under the light of reincarnation. And which, under this light, reveal the great truths that have for so long been misunderstood.
Charles
[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 10-29-2001).]