Free Spirt
Senior Registered
I said
"however who your behaviors"
should be " however wouldyour..." sorry i will start proofing better
"however who your behaviors"
should be " however wouldyour..." sorry i will start proofing better
Would positive "PROOF" Reincarnation is nonexistent change your present behaviors??
- Thread starter Free Spirt
- Start date
charmed
inquisitor
Free Spirit,
Ofcourse not everybody needs a 'theory' even if they don't believe in anything at all, that's why I stated 'probably'.
I think pretty much most of the world needs tangible evidence to support belief systems. But on the other hand Just because something is not yet tangible doesn't mean it's not real. I am more materialistic, but I do believe things that I think are true regardless of what other people say, because it is my theory, it's what I've worked out inside my head. I think Philosophy is the best key to organise our view of the world, instead of just solely clinging unto facts which keep changing from time to time.
Exactly , how do we determine what is considered as a FACT most of the time.
What I meant before is that some people who are religious, who truly cling unto God and believes that he is real can be compared with the similarities of a child waiting for Santa Claus and behaving at Christmas.
Okay, they don't have to be religious, or spiritual, they don't have to believe in reincarnation, They probably have other belief systems. With the Santa Claus and sugar out of candy thing, I wanted to state out that other people's opinions or confidence are treated much the same way, So if somebody proved reincarnation wrong, or other beliefs, then ofcourse it would be disappointing wouldn't it?...
But on the other hand everybody has a choice, They can either accept the new evidence over the flawed, or they can continue to believe their theories or assumptions,
After all you stated; How do we determine what is FACT?, And before you said: " If you receive evidence of flawed thinking...change your thinking ...and belief system...no problem... just don't use subjective experiences and unprovable phemonema as evidence! " - So you do depend on facts as you change your beliefs because of evidence..But what is Evidence really and how can we be so sure?. Didn't you say that about FACt before? I'm sorry but You're not making any sense..please explain.
[This message has been edited by charmed (edited 07-16-2002).]
Ofcourse not everybody needs a 'theory' even if they don't believe in anything at all, that's why I stated 'probably'.
I think pretty much most of the world needs tangible evidence to support belief systems. But on the other hand Just because something is not yet tangible doesn't mean it's not real. I am more materialistic, but I do believe things that I think are true regardless of what other people say, because it is my theory, it's what I've worked out inside my head. I think Philosophy is the best key to organise our view of the world, instead of just solely clinging unto facts which keep changing from time to time.
Exactly , how do we determine what is considered as a FACT most of the time.
What I meant before is that some people who are religious, who truly cling unto God and believes that he is real can be compared with the similarities of a child waiting for Santa Claus and behaving at Christmas.
Okay, they don't have to be religious, or spiritual, they don't have to believe in reincarnation, They probably have other belief systems. With the Santa Claus and sugar out of candy thing, I wanted to state out that other people's opinions or confidence are treated much the same way, So if somebody proved reincarnation wrong, or other beliefs, then ofcourse it would be disappointing wouldn't it?...
But on the other hand everybody has a choice, They can either accept the new evidence over the flawed, or they can continue to believe their theories or assumptions,
After all you stated; How do we determine what is FACT?, And before you said: " If you receive evidence of flawed thinking...change your thinking ...and belief system...no problem... just don't use subjective experiences and unprovable phemonema as evidence! " - So you do depend on facts as you change your beliefs because of evidence..But what is Evidence really and how can we be so sure?. Didn't you say that about FACt before? I'm sorry but You're not making any sense..please explain.
[This message has been edited by charmed (edited 07-16-2002).]
Free Spirt
Senior Registered
charmed: I'm charmed !!!!Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Yur not the first to indicate I am making no sense, but as I have stated "It's the journey" and I do get lost sometimes...and continue to smell the roses along the way even if I am lost.... please help me under stand which statements or questions are making no sense so I can rethink them and perhaps be a bit more "senseical" (is that a word?)... I will reply to some of your questions and comments later as I am really tied up at the moment, but did want to thank you for you thoughts and invite others to offer their thoughts
amazingrandy
Senior Registered
"IF there were no reincarnation, no karma, no god, no religion, no before or after life how would you live differently, if at all and why?"
I would focus on my true passion in life... Stamp Collecting.
In all honesty, I would continue to search for the truth.
AmazingRandy
I would focus on my true passion in life... Stamp Collecting.
In all honesty, I would continue to search for the truth.
AmazingRandy
Free Spirt
Senior Registered
Randy you said "In all honesty, I would continue to search for the truth"
That is a nice popular saying...what do YOU mean by it and how does that effect how you relate to your fellow human being and how does it effect any of your BEHAVIORS?
Popular saings are usually very meaningless when examined from a critical point of view... Know of any exceptions?
That is a nice popular saying...what do YOU mean by it and how does that effect how you relate to your fellow human being and how does it effect any of your BEHAVIORS?
Popular saings are usually very meaningless when examined from a critical point of view... Know of any exceptions?
amazingrandy
Senior Registered
I apologize for my lack of clarity. In addition, I did not intend to minimize your query by my quick quip. By “truth” I mean really what is the true make up of our reality? What are the limits of that make up? How can we use what we learn of our reality to further the development or even evolution of man? If “this” is all there is what exactly is “this”, what are the implications and true limits of all “this”?
Even if sufficient evidence regarding reincarnation, karma, god, religion, before/after life were put forth as being bunk there are still a myriad of other "truths" to search for.
Why are we here? What is consciousness? Can we transfer that consciousness ourselves? Can man "invent" reincarnation? Can science help man become immortal? Is there intelligent life outside of Earth's atmosphere? Can a physical object travel from point A to point B faster than light? Is time travel to the past possible? Can we reverse the aging process? In addition, I am sure you yourself can come up with many more.
An important aspect to your question, I feel, really deals with an individuals meaning of life. For some, initially, their lives would probably suffer a loss of meaning. These people would have to find new meaning. I believe it is really the individual’s responsibility to make their own life meaningful, by their own definition. However, I am certain anyone’s current paradigm for life will fit this new paradigm albeit with a few modifications.
As for how it would change my behavior. Being very skeptical of fringe ideas I am not a devote believer in reincarnation, karma, god, religion, before/after life I do not foresee much change in my personal behavior. However, if I had been a devote believer I would expect to be more appreciative of the time I have now. I would be more caring and attentive to the family/friends while there are here in my life. I would take steps to ensure certain things never go unsaid or undone. Moreover, as I stated previously, I’d continue to search for more truth in our present reality.
Hope this helps.
AmazingRandy
Even if sufficient evidence regarding reincarnation, karma, god, religion, before/after life were put forth as being bunk there are still a myriad of other "truths" to search for.
Why are we here? What is consciousness? Can we transfer that consciousness ourselves? Can man "invent" reincarnation? Can science help man become immortal? Is there intelligent life outside of Earth's atmosphere? Can a physical object travel from point A to point B faster than light? Is time travel to the past possible? Can we reverse the aging process? In addition, I am sure you yourself can come up with many more.
An important aspect to your question, I feel, really deals with an individuals meaning of life. For some, initially, their lives would probably suffer a loss of meaning. These people would have to find new meaning. I believe it is really the individual’s responsibility to make their own life meaningful, by their own definition. However, I am certain anyone’s current paradigm for life will fit this new paradigm albeit with a few modifications.
As for how it would change my behavior. Being very skeptical of fringe ideas I am not a devote believer in reincarnation, karma, god, religion, before/after life I do not foresee much change in my personal behavior. However, if I had been a devote believer I would expect to be more appreciative of the time I have now. I would be more caring and attentive to the family/friends while there are here in my life. I would take steps to ensure certain things never go unsaid or undone. Moreover, as I stated previously, I’d continue to search for more truth in our present reality.
Hope this helps.
AmazingRandy
charmed
inquisitor
Hi Amazingrandi,
We are here because we exists, although I still wonder why, but overall we are just here to replenish.
As evolution progressed into more and more complex structures in animals such as the growth enlargement of the brain in apes: such as chimps and mankind, information about time in the outside world could be analysed and stored in the brain, the concept of past, present and future, and having the ability to rationalize and to tell the difference between those events, gradually evolved into - Self Awareness / Consciousness, to know that you exist. (chimps also have this too)
(I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean with the other two)
Well, as we live further in time, our cells keep copying again and again, and after a long period, within the DNA strand this line which is responsible for the amount of cellular production gradually decreases, the more cells die, more cells are born and so on, until this line runs out is the point where the body can no longer reproduce anymore cells and dies. Scientists are currently researching of ways to make this line longer, therefore undergo longer life span or in the future manifest ways to cease its boundaries. - Death can no longer be something inescapable. An ageless, immortal generation immerges.
Okay, just because we have only seen the abundance of life on earth, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist anywhere else. We know that with the proper temperature, that is with a liquid mantle within a planet can produce enough heat to escape through vents and a gradual build up of atmosphere is attained - clouds evaporate into seas of water; an organic element, and also heat from the sun so heat is longer sustainable. We know that life produces oxygen on earth, seen in primitive bacteria, a great amount of oxygen such as the ozone layer in a planet can determine the presence of life forms.
In physics, the speed of light is the fastest, nothing can measure up to the speed of light. Perhaps there could be something faster than light in the near future, or something as fast as the speed of light, But not yet as of now..
Oh my favourite, time travel, Well, except the movie theaters, but right now... it's just an abstract concept. But that would be interesting though...
-Well those are some of answers or controversies that science is already researching about..
We are here because we exists, although I still wonder why, but overall we are just here to replenish.
As evolution progressed into more and more complex structures in animals such as the growth enlargement of the brain in apes: such as chimps and mankind, information about time in the outside world could be analysed and stored in the brain, the concept of past, present and future, and having the ability to rationalize and to tell the difference between those events, gradually evolved into - Self Awareness / Consciousness, to know that you exist. (chimps also have this too)
(I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean with the other two)
Well, as we live further in time, our cells keep copying again and again, and after a long period, within the DNA strand this line which is responsible for the amount of cellular production gradually decreases, the more cells die, more cells are born and so on, until this line runs out is the point where the body can no longer reproduce anymore cells and dies. Scientists are currently researching of ways to make this line longer, therefore undergo longer life span or in the future manifest ways to cease its boundaries. - Death can no longer be something inescapable. An ageless, immortal generation immerges.
Okay, just because we have only seen the abundance of life on earth, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist anywhere else. We know that with the proper temperature, that is with a liquid mantle within a planet can produce enough heat to escape through vents and a gradual build up of atmosphere is attained - clouds evaporate into seas of water; an organic element, and also heat from the sun so heat is longer sustainable. We know that life produces oxygen on earth, seen in primitive bacteria, a great amount of oxygen such as the ozone layer in a planet can determine the presence of life forms.
In physics, the speed of light is the fastest, nothing can measure up to the speed of light. Perhaps there could be something faster than light in the near future, or something as fast as the speed of light, But not yet as of now..
Oh my favourite, time travel, Well, except the movie theaters, but right now... it's just an abstract concept. But that would be interesting though...
-Well those are some of answers or controversies that science is already researching about..
Hi Randy
Are you familiar with the work of Fred Alan Wolf? He has a new book that looks very interesting called The Spiritual Universe --it offers a new vision, based on quantum physics and modern science in general, of evidence for the physical presence of the soul.
Fred Alan Wolf
------------------
Deborah
Memory is an abstract painting - it does not present things as they are, but rather as they feel. --Eugenia Collier
[This message has been edited by Deborah (edited 07-19-2002).]
Are you familiar with the work of Fred Alan Wolf? He has a new book that looks very interesting called The Spiritual Universe --it offers a new vision, based on quantum physics and modern science in general, of evidence for the physical presence of the soul.
Fred Alan Wolf
------------------
Deborah
Memory is an abstract painting - it does not present things as they are, but rather as they feel. --Eugenia Collier
[This message has been edited by Deborah (edited 07-19-2002).]
amazingrandy
Senior Registered
charmed,
Sure, being a scientist I am well aware of this fact. I appreciate your answers, however I was being rhetorical. I suppose they do involve studies in which I have special interest. My intention was to demonstrate that there are other aspects to our universe to be excited about and explore even if reincarnation, karma, god, religion, before/after life were proven untrue.
AmazingRandy
[This message has been edited by amazingrandy (edited 07-19-2002).]
Sure, being a scientist I am well aware of this fact. I appreciate your answers, however I was being rhetorical. I suppose they do involve studies in which I have special interest. My intention was to demonstrate that there are other aspects to our universe to be excited about and explore even if reincarnation, karma, god, religion, before/after life were proven untrue.
AmazingRandy
[This message has been edited by amazingrandy (edited 07-19-2002).]
amazingrandy
Senior Registered
Deborah,
I have not read his book. But, I will add him to my booklist.
AmazingRandy
I have not read his book. But, I will add him to my booklist.
AmazingRandy
Free Spirt
Senior Registered
hello all,
Something is wrong with my computer that i can not access page 2...deborah - would you please send it to me...thanks....
As far as your question charmed about facts/evidence and my making no sense...let me clarify.
I do think there are Facts....if I put my hand on a hot stove it is a fact I will experience pain....and so will anyone else with an intact nervious system....If i cut my head off i will die..those are facts...my comment re: facts was that we need to differicate between fact and assumption...and the way we do this is based on the evidence at hand.... Some people believe that the complexity of the universe is evidence of a god...others don't...so all I am suggesting is that we be aware that what we consider a fact may be an assumption and that we be open to evidence or other reasonable assumptions if the "fact" is determioned not to be a "fact".
Deborah did send me page 2 last night, and I hoped i would be able to access it but can not... I do recall someone claiming that based on the principle that energy never disappears, rather is transformed or something to that effect....the poin twas that this belief proves athesim to be invalid...no before or after....
hmmmmm, lets play with that one.... If true than what is it that happened to my puppy recently when run over...Must we now assumne she was reincarnated to transform her energy? And if not then what did happen to that "soul" or energy? I look forward to getting to page two to study through it. I recall some good discussion and know I have a few questions. thanks again for all the excellent thoughts!
It's the Journey!
Something is wrong with my computer that i can not access page 2...deborah - would you please send it to me...thanks....
As far as your question charmed about facts/evidence and my making no sense...let me clarify.
I do think there are Facts....if I put my hand on a hot stove it is a fact I will experience pain....and so will anyone else with an intact nervious system....If i cut my head off i will die..those are facts...my comment re: facts was that we need to differicate between fact and assumption...and the way we do this is based on the evidence at hand.... Some people believe that the complexity of the universe is evidence of a god...others don't...so all I am suggesting is that we be aware that what we consider a fact may be an assumption and that we be open to evidence or other reasonable assumptions if the "fact" is determioned not to be a "fact".
Deborah did send me page 2 last night, and I hoped i would be able to access it but can not... I do recall someone claiming that based on the principle that energy never disappears, rather is transformed or something to that effect....the poin twas that this belief proves athesim to be invalid...no before or after....
hmmmmm, lets play with that one.... If true than what is it that happened to my puppy recently when run over...Must we now assumne she was reincarnated to transform her energy? And if not then what did happen to that "soul" or energy? I look forward to getting to page two to study through it. I recall some good discussion and know I have a few questions. thanks again for all the excellent thoughts!
It's the Journey!
