Astral Projection: the basics.

[Eowyn]

As I see this is a recurring theme in the paranormal section of the forum and I am always repeating the same information that gets scattered in several threads, I thought of writing it all down together for future references so that people who have doubts can easily resolve them here. Of course, everyone who has direct experience and wants to share it, is welcome.

First of all, a brief introduction: how is it I am always so sure about my experiences in regards to this matter and I even criticize scientists and people who talk about astral projection (AP) without knowing a thing about it? Well, not long ago I was quite ignorant about AP. After one year of frequent and regular meditation to remember past lives, I started to have these "weird dreams" where I would find myself standing in the middle of my bedroom, seeing it all with a bluish light. I would look at my hands and see them bluish too, and they were not "physical", but as if they were made of some kind of "energy". Shortly afterwards, I would just wake up normally. I had been having this kind of dreams ever since childhood, though now they were starting to be more frequent, I had two in the same week and I started to look for answers. At that moment I was in a quite close-minded FB group about NDE's, where it was alright to talk about OBE's in the context of an NDE, but you could be banned if you mentioned the world "astral". I used to complain a lot, and I shared some of my experiences. Then a woman who was writing a book about OBE's told me what I was having were not "normal dreams", but astral travels. She didn't have experience herself though, so she directed me to people who did know a lot about this, all of them quite normal people, quite far from the usual esoteric groups where people like to talk about myths and things they read, but who usually have no practical training. One of these people was a paraplegic middle-aged graphic designer who had suffered an NDE, as a result he had found out we are much more than flesh and bones, and he started to do a lot of research and he learned to astral project. He told me that in 18 years of practice, only once he had been able to meet with others in the astral, showing me AP is not as easy and wonderful as we read in books or see in movies. Another one of these people is someone with over 20 years of experience, who runs the best blog in Spanish about this matter, from whom I've learned all I know, and in many occasions he has been the only one who could answer my questions.

I'd like to say they were my mentors, but the truth is that astral travelers don't like to talk too much, as they are often considered crazy. But they're not. The only problem is one they share with people who have suffered NDE's: ineffability, that is, you can't find the proper words to describe what you see and feel "on the other side", as it's a totally different reality to our physical world, and only the ones who have been there can begin to understand what "the other side" is. This knowledge has been often related to the occult, esoteric or metaphysical teachings, and hidden to the normal people, as it was considered a "highly sensitive" and dangerous knowledge not recommended for everyone, but my opinion is that the era of the occult is over and now we are ready to embrace that knowledge and see by ourselves our true nature. Incredibly, many astral travelers still think that if they share their knowledge, they will lose their abilities, a nonsensical idea which is a reminiscence of those old days. I think we must share this knowledge, and put it out there for all those who may need it.

So, here you have the basics I was taught at the beginning. They're quite simple and that's why I keep repeating them over and over. I have a scientific mind and some of them were quite hard for me to believe at first. It's normal you have doubts, if so I invite you to try the techniques and see for yourself. That's what I did. And that's how I got to know what I'm going to tell next. I'm not talking from things they told me, or things I've heard somewhere or read in a book. I talk from my own experience and when it is not enough, from the experience of the people I mentioned above. It goes without saying my own experience doesn't dismiss the experience of others, I don't have the Absolute Truth and I'm always learning, but I think it is important to differentiate facts from myths or popular sayings with no actual basis behind. The astral realm is a strange and infinite world we have only started to explore, so it remains a mystery and no one really knows how it works.

 

[Eowyn]

A NOTE ABOUT NOMENCLATURE.

Astral travel = Astral projection (AP) = Out of body experience (OBE).

I don't like the word "astral" too much but I use it because we have nothing better for now. This word comes from esoteric sources and it refers to the closest dimension to the physical world, whatever that is. Supposedly, the astral is made of different "planes" or "layers", each with a different frequency of vibration. The astral must not be confounded with the higher dimensions where spirits reside (commonly known as Heaven). The astral is an intermediate level, always temporary, where our souls can linger for some time when we disincarnate, but while in the astral we still have an astral body and a mental body, both of which get destroyed before we ascend to the higher dimensions (according to these teachings). Maybe that's the reason we are still very attached to our last personality and we can easily adopt the appearance we had in our last life.

I use equally the three terms, though OBE is the scientific one. Scientists usually don't want to hear about "astral travel", and mainly they use the expression "out of body experience" to describe the phase in which many people who suffer NDE's say they could see their own bodies, and all the things surgeons were doing with them during the time they were "supposedly" unconscious. They seem not to give any credit to the accounts of hundreds of people who say you can go out consciously of your body, and they even jump to conclusions when the truth is they don't even know what they're investigating.

There's one word I like more though, it's the Spanish word "desdoblamiento", but it seems this has no equivalent in English, the closest word could be "disconnection" or "separation" of the astral body from the physical body. I think this word is more specific, as this is exactly what happens in AP. It seems to me that "projection" makes you think of travelling at light speed through the space and going to distant and wonderful places. This is possible, but it's quite hard to achieve. It also brings confusion when we talk about remote viewing or mental projection. These phenomena are other psychic phenomena with some things in common, but they're NOT astral projection. In AP, there's ALWAYS a disconnection between your astral body and physical body, you GO OUT literally of your body and move with your astral body in the astral realm. And for doing this you have to be asleep. If not, maybe we are talking of autoscopy, which is the scientific term for the feeling many people describe of "being out of their bodies and see themselves from the outside" (from Wikipedia: "experience in which an individual perceives the surrounding environment from a different perspective, from a position outside of his or her own body", or maybe we are talking of the ability to see things that are happening in distant places, but without moving (among other phenomena). To be completely sure you have experienced an OBE, you have to be conscious during the process of separation from your physical body.

I'll also use equally the words soul and astral body, though I think "astral body" is more exact in this case.

 

[Eowyn]

THE BASICS.

The most important thing you have to know if you want to astral project is that every night we ALL, without exception, go out from our physical bodies. They say this is a natural mechanism of the soul to recharge the energy we've lost during the day. I don't think this has been proven, but it sounds logical. One of the first things I read was that once our soul is out, it stays floating around 2 feet above our physical body while we sleep. I was quite skeptical of this, and in fact one of my "mentors" says most souls just wander unconsciously in the astral (and you can easily find them). But the truth is that one of the few occasions I could wake up in the astral from a dream, I found myself (my astral body) floating above my physical body, so I guess both are facts.

Anyway, the key to astral project is to remain awake while your body gets asleep. Usually we all lose consciousness just before our astral body separates from our physical body. And our brain starts to dream. The objective when we want to astral project, is not to get out of our bodies, that's going to happen anyway because it is a natural process. Our objective is to remain conscious all the while, to transfer our consciousness from our physical body to the astral body, and start perceiving the astral world with our astral senses.

How do you do this? As you can imagine, saying it is easier than doing it, but if you have some practice with meditation and relaxation techniques, it's easier than you think. Relax all your body, from head to toes, little by little. You have to reach a very deep state of relaxation, so deep you'll scarcely notice you're breathing. It's normal you'll get asleep many times at the beginning, to avoid this you can use different tricks:

- You can recite any mantra you want. Keep in mind there's no magical formulas or prayers, as many think. If you search in the internet you'll find hundreds of senseless sounds and words you can use for this, but there's no magic behind them, the only purpose is to concentrate on something so that you don't fall asleep. You can invent your own absurd mantra if you want, whatever you feel comfortable with, and you can repeat it on your mind one, two, three, ten or a hundred times, it doesn't matter as long as you don't let your mind wander. If you get lost in thoughts, it's likely you'll fall asleep and start dreaming right away.

- You can focus your attention on any of your physical senses: tact, hearing, vision. For me this technique was very useful, in one of my first successful attempts I spontaneously focused on some flashes I started to see on my eyelids. If you see this, don't worry, later I learned this was completely normal and it was due to electrical activity in neurons. You can also see colours, patterns, etc. This means you are starting to see with your third eye (astral vision), and while you are focusing on this, you keep relaxing all your body.

 

[Eowyn]

THE BASICS (II): SYMPTOMS.

Once you're totally relaxed, to the point you don't feel your body, and you are only aware of your mind, you can start to feel the symptoms of the disconnection. This is a delicate point, as we don't know what to expect, we can feel strange things that can make us nervous or scared, and we're going to lose our concentration and we may have to start all over again. Here we only have to do one thing: keep calm. You have to be completely sure nothing bad is going to happen, everything is normal, don't worry, and don't move. At this point it is very important you remain totally motionless and relaxed. And yes, you need a great amount of mental control to do this, that's why it takes some patience and constancy to achieve the results. But I can assure you it is worth to experience it at least once in your life.

The symptoms are many but these are the most common ones:

- Vibrations. I've felt them only in one or two occasions, and it's hard to describe. Maybe it could be compared to the feeling you'd have if there's an earthquake and the floor starts to tremble. Or as if someone is shaking you violently, you feel a bit of vertigo, a bit dizzy. You can feel it in all your body or only in a leg, an arm, or in the head. Easy to identify.

- A tingling in all your body. I've felt this very often, I'd say it's like a flow of energy going through all your body.

- A buzzing in your ears, like the wind or a breeze in real life, though it can also be more intense and unpleasant, more like a whistle or a siren.

- Cranial sounds. There are many different descriptions, for me it felt like bones cracking inside my head, or teeth grounding, quite unpleasant too.

- Different feelings of "floating". You may have the feeling as if you are peacefully floating on a pool raft, or you may feel very light, even beginning to ascend. In fact, you can imagine you are indeed floating, this can be very good for the real separation. I used to imagine I was in a swing, when the swing was in the highest top, my astral body would separate.

- A sense of sinking in the bed, as if you're falling.

- Sometimes there's a rapid heartbeat. It certainly can be scary and worrying, but it's normal. Just relax.

- You may hear voices or whispers, even when you know you are alone.

- And... you can suddenly feel a presence in the room, usually a black shadow or just something that scares you. It's alright, it can't hurt you, real or not.

- Oh! and I forgot the most popular: sleep paralysis. Sometimes we even think this scary presence is trying to suffocate us, it is sitting on our chest and we can't breathe. This is not real. Not at all. The more afraid you get, the more anxious you'll get, and the worse you'll feel. But there's nothing to fear. Once again, relax, it feels you are half awake and half asleep, in this moment reality and dreams kind of blend together and it's hard to differentiate fantasy and reality. But you only have to calm down and when the paralysis disappears you will only have to move (if you find out how) to be in the astral.

Of course, you're not going to feel all of them at the same time, it changes in every attempt and in every person. When you start feeling some of these symptoms, you're very close to the separation, so you only have to remain calm, and two things can happen:

1. You may lose consciousness just for a second and then "wake up" already out of your body, standing next to your bed or wherever.

2. Or you may continue with the process and be completely aware of the separation, this is quite exciting and it is the only way we have to be sure we are doing it right. If we are not aware of this, it's likely we'll have more doubts if we're dreaming or not, though with a bit of practice you also learn to differentiate this.

It seems vibrations are quite frequent, but in my case I've felt them only occasionally. What I did feel the first time was how my legs popped out of my physical body and they started to float, to my surprise. The feeling is as if you're trying to separate two magnets from each other. The bond between the astral body and the physical body is stronger by the neck/head area, and sometimes it can happen that you feel all your body is floating with the exception of the head, that keeps stuck. This happens when your physical body is not completely relaxed, so if you notice this, don't panic, just relax and wait a bit more, you'll finally go out completely. And if you panic, the worst thing to expect is that you will return to your body and you'll wake up, so no worries.

I've also heard cranial sounds in the moment of separation, they sounded as if you take two stones and rub one against the other, it was quite unpleasant but I didn't worry as I knew what they were. But most times I felt nothing, nothing at all, it was like "one second I'm in, next second I'm out, all quiet and peaceful.

This is also a weird moment, because you don't really know what is happening, you don't know what to do, you are wondering "What do I do next? Do I try to move? Do I get up normally as they say? How do I do that" I learned that you don't have to force anything, you don't have to make any effort to "move" (because your astral body doesn't work like the physical body), you just have to wait as the separation is natural. Only, sometimes you may float, and others not. Sometimes you're going to sink in your bed, and sometimes not. It is very, very subtle, but there's a certain sensation you're going to feel when that separation occurs, and with experience you'll notice it easier. Then you'll know that's the moment when you can start to move: a funny and efficient way to do it is to roll to one side, and you'll find yourself outside and below your physical body.

The first times, you may notice you don't achieve the conscious separation, but you fall asleep, and it is frequent you start having lucid dreams. This is good, it means you are starting to be a little aware of the astral realm. If you have some experience with lucid dreams, or it is easy for you to do it, you can take advantage of it and use this other method to go out to the astral. In fact, it takes less discipline and it's quite easier than the above method, the con is that you're not separating consciously from your physical body and it can be more confusing. When you are having a lucid dream, and you become aware you are dreaming, you can order your mind "I don't want to dream, I want to see the astral". If you do it right (with real will and conviction), it's likely the dream will fade away, your surroundings will change, and you'll find yourself out of your body. As this can be quite shocking, it's normal the first times you get afraid and return immediately to your body, and you'll wake up, and as time passes you'll have doubts if you were dreaming or not. Well, the more you practice, the easier will be for you to differentiate a dream and a successful AP.

 

[Eowyn]

THE BASICS (III): EXPLORING THE ASTRAL.

Once you are out of your body, you want to make sure you're really out. That's why it is recommended that you look at your hands. If you are really in the astral, you'll see them as an "energetic structure" with a blue, green or violet colour all around. If you see them as normal hands, or strange hands that maintain a human appearance but you can pull them, elongate them, or whatever, it's a dream. This doesn't mean you're not out of your body, this means you're not conscious enough and the majority of what you see is being constructed by your mind, that is, your mind is altering the "reality" of the astral realm. We often say we build our own reality. Well, this is especially true in the astral. My guess is that we have got rid of our physical body, and our mind becomes very powerful. The problem is we still don't know how to use our mind, we don't control it, and if we can't control it, our mind takes control, and our new senses can easily deceive us, as we're moving in a new dimension totally different to the physical world, where the physical rules don't apply any more. We are like babies learning to walk.

Next thing you have to try to do is look at your physical body. You'll soon discover that you only need to have the intention to do what you want to do. If you happen to be standing in the bedroom and your bed is behind you, you won't need to turn around to see your body, because now you have a 360º vision, and your perspective will change immediately. You'll also notice that you are seeing with "something" that is in the centre of your forehead, more or less, but if we don't have eyes now, how it is we are seeing? Well, we are using the third eye. With it, you can focus the same way you focus your physical eyes. We can also "touch" things, though the feeling is quite different to our normal tact. It's more like energy transferring from the "objects" you see. And if you want, you simply go through them, the same as walls.

If you can't see your bedroom or your own body, don't worry at all, because depending on our level of vibration, we might have gone out to a different dimension, further than the physical world. From what I've read, it seems most people who have spontaneous OBE's find themselves in their bedrooms, or in their house, they move, they identify the same objects and sometimes they don't even know they're out of their bodies until they touch a switch to turn on the light and realize they can't touch it. But we must keep in mind that what we are seeing from the astral is not the "real" object, but only their "energetic reflection" in the astral. If you left your door open and now it is closed, this doesn't mean you're dreaming, it's normal you find things in different places.

Now, if you want to go somewhere, just think of that location, and you'll be there. And don't be disappointed because this sounds great but it's not as easy as it seems.

 

[Eowyn]

THE BASICS (IV): COMMON PROBLEMS.

When we start to astral project consciously it is normal we do it with very low lucidity and we have no control. We are learning and discovering a new world, so we are confused.

The first experiences use to be like these:

- "Hey, I did it, I'm out!" Five seconds later you feel something pulling you from behind and you go back to your body and wake up. So you ask yourself: "Wow, what was that? Was it a dream?" No, it wasn't. But it was too short! And after all the effort, do I have to start all over again? Yes, I'm afraid so, but probably not tonight.

A good trick: if you feel something pulling from behind, grab whatever you see you can grab in the astral. Resist. Tell yourself it is not time to get back and you'll be able to remain a bit more. At least one or two seconds more...

- "O.K., these are my hands, great. Now, I want to see my body... WOOWWW, IS THAT MY BODY?" --SHOCK-- You're back in your body and wondering "Wow, what was that? Was it a dream?" No, it wasn't... but still, too short.

The first time I saw my body wasn't like this though. My reaction was more: "Wow, so that's my body (in case you're wondering, you don't see your body as it normally looks like in real life, it's more like a weird bundle of greenish/bluish energy that keeps a bit of your facial features, with a strange consistency... at least that's how I saw mine). So, that's it? O.K., what do I do now?" I lost interest quickly to be honest, I felt a kind of detachment as if I knew my body didn't matter at all, that "thing" wasn't me, it was just the vehicle I'm using this time. Of course I guess this experience is very different for each person.

- "Hmm... I'm out of my body, but it's all black, I can't see anything". This is quite common. It only means we're still quite "asleep" in the astral, our lucidity/awareness is still very low. They say you only have to ask for clarity and you'll start to see better. I've done it and it works... sometimes.

- "Hmm... I?m out of my body, but how do I move? I want to go and see X. Come on, move!" But you seem stuck to the ground. This happens because we still think we have a physical body and we want to use our astral body the same way... but no, things don't work like this anymore. In the astral you use your mind for everything. If you want to fly, just think you're flying. If you want to go the Moon, just think "I want to go the Moon" It's likely we'll end up somewhere else though, because even when we start to move, usually our mind takes control before we know it and goes wherever it wants, and suddenly you start to feel dizzy and lose consciousness. You were in the astral, but now you're dreaming... If you recall something when you wake up, you won't know which part was a dream and which part was a real experience in the astral.
__________________

 

[Eowyn]

THE BASICS (V): GENERAL ADVICE.

- To do conscious astral projection, it's better you choose the appropriate day. If you are too tired or too worried, you won't get anywhere. Stay home, calm, quiet, don't argue with anyone. Eat light food, drink a lot of water. Of course, no alcohol, no drugs. You can prepare yourself repeating a mantra in your head a few times along the day, that way you can program your subconscious so that you'll wake up easily in the astral once you've gone to sleep.

- Meditation helps a lot too. A good habit is to meditate half an hour before going to sleep, and then slip in your bed with comfortable clothes, so that you can relax deeply, without anything bothering you.

- It's very important you know what you are going to do once you are in the astral. While you are trying to relax and concentrate repeat your objectives in your mind. For example: "When I'm out of my body I want to 1. Take a look at my hands, 2. Take a look at my body, 3. Go to the kitchen, 4. Go to the local library. This helps you to be in control once you are in the astral. If you don't have clear objectives, your mind starts to wander and gets dragged by whatever, strange "talking figures" or people may turn up, you may find yourself in unknown places, maybe talking to someone, but soon it all starts to fade and becomes a dream, or you return to your body. Remember you always have to be in control, to be able to discern and doubt of everything you see.

- Also, tell yourself you're going to remember everything you experience in the astral when you come back.

- Don't have fear. Never. Fear makes you lose control. Some "creatures" can take advantage of this. People usually fear these things, but they are completely FALSE:

1. "My physical body is going to be possessed by someone while I'm out". No, no proven cases anywhere.
2. "Someone is going to cut my silver cord and I'm going to die". The silver cord is a beautiful myth that serves to explain the connection between astral and physical body. They say it is made of energy and as such it can't be broken, the same way a ray of sunshine can't be broken. The truth is: most astral travelers say they have never seen such cord... and those who do, it's probably because that's what they EXPECT to see. In the astral we often create our own reality.
3. "I'm going to get lost in the astral, I won't be able to come back". That's impossible. It's much, much more complicated to remain in the astral than to return to your body. You only have to think of it, and you'll be back in a second.

- To be really lucid in the astral and have total control is very hard and you'll need years of practice. Average people like me use to feel like sleepy or drunk. It can be very confusing and you'll have constant doubts. To be aware in the astral means exactly you have to WAKE UP in the realm of dreams. And that awakening is also spiritual. You can't walk the astral loaded with human emotions, worries, human expectations, desires of power, or bad intentions like spying your neighbours. In the astral you can't hide who you are. If you use this ability the wrong way, you'll lose it.

- Don't astral project if you're feeling depressed or have other kind of negative feelings. You go to places that have the same "frequency of vibration" as you, so you could end up in unpleasant places or with beings that are suffering for whatever reason. The same way, if you are in the astral and you feel something negative or you feel threatened, or you have a shapeless black dough stuck on your hand that prevents you from moving (real example), all you have to do is to raise your vibration to get rid of them. You raise your vibration just thinking about someone you love: it can be a relative, your significant other, your cat... just think of the love you have for them, project that love around you, and you'll see how all negative things disappear.

- A good moment to try is early in the morning, after you've had a few hours of good sleep. You can set your alarm clock at 4 or 5 am and when you wake up, get up, read a book or do a bit of mental working, and go back to sleep. Begin the relaxation/concentration techniques then. I've had my best experiences doing it this way.

- Once you have a bit of experience, it's normal you are aware of the moment you return to your body (in this moment you can also feel sleep paralysis). But you don't need to wake up immediately. If you think you had a short travel and still want more, all you have to do is to stay totally motionless, the "reconnection" has not yet ocurred, so just "get up" again, go out and enjoy freedom a bit more!

- To look for guides in the astral is not a good idea. You must walk this path alone. Occasionally you may want to ask for help, and it's likely someone will turn up and help you. But beware, there are beings who are not so kind and they'll want your energy, they'll try to deceive you, they can tell you whatever you want, they can say they are someone you knew and you'll believe them. Just like in the real world, there are good and evil beings. If you are not in control, you'd better ignore them.

 

[Eowyn]

THE BASICS (VI): CREATURES YOU MAY FIND IN THE ASTRAL.

Basically these ones:

- Souls of living persons who are doing conscious astral projection.

- Souls of living persons who are asleep and wandering unconsciously in the astral (with different levels of lucidity). They say you have to leave them alone, it’s no good to disturb them.

- Souls of dead persons who are still in the astral, some of them may be lost or they may not even know they’re dead, in that case you can tell them to go on to the light. If not, they’ll remain here all the time they want, it’s their choice. Some will talk to you and will be nice. I’ve encountered a bunch of these, I never had any negative experience… only curious experiences.

- Souls of living and dead animals. Cats and dogs are quite good doing astral projection, believe it or not. I’ve seen my own cat (the living one) quite a few times in the astral… and I’m pretty sure she saw me too.

- “Carcasses” of astral bodies. Yes, just like our physical bodies, our astral bodies take some time to decompose… with the only difference sometimes they keep a bit of autonomy and it may seem they are still “alive”. (This comes from esoteric teachings, it isn’t corroborated by astral travelers, at least those I know).

- “Mental ephigies or statues”. Figures created by our own unconscious desires, they seem totally real, they answer your questions, they can take the appearance of someone you know… only if you are aware enough to ask and doubt, they’ll disappear. It happened to me.

- All kind of “black shadows” that can take all kind of shapes: giant spiders, insects, animals, whatever you fear… Usually they are just that: things created by your own fear. They can’t harm you, unless you believe they can… use your imagination to defeat them. They also can be like accumulations of negative energy that comes from our thoughts, they look like monsters, but I haven't seen any of these in my short experience.

- Other creatures (not human). I’ll leave it here as I have no direct experience and I'm very skeptical, but of course I don't discard their existence.

 

[hydrolad]

Eowyn


Eowyn, congratulations on an excellent primer on Astral Projection and Out of Body Experiences, this information can only help others in their quest of discovery and speed the process of acceptance by the general public.


Again, Eowyn, congratulations, for a job well done.

 

[Crescent1]

This is all wonderful advice, Eowyn. Thank you for taking the time to prepare and share all this useful information--very generous!

 

[Mere Dreamer]

Thank you, Eowyn. This is well laid out and very useful.

 

[tanguerra]

Great idea. Thanks Eowyn!

 

[John Tat]

Hi Eowyn I have several questions which the answers to them will help me have a greater understanding. One of my failings is, I'm only concerned about what effects me and how to improve my pure self


When you quote....


The astral must not be confounded with the higher dimensions where spirits reside (commonly known as Heaven). The astral is an intermediate level, always temporary, where our souls can linger for some time when we disincarnate, but while in the astral we still have an astral body and a mental body, both of which get destroyed before we ascend to the higher dimensions (according to these teachings).


What do you mean by both an Astral body and mental body


Is the mental body part of the physical?


Do you believe we ascend or reincarnate?

 

[John Tat]

When you quote...


We often say we build our own reality. Well, this is especially true in the astral. My guess is that we have got rid of our physical body, and our mind becomes very powerful. The problem is we still don’t know how to use our mind, we don’t control it, and if we can’t control it, our mind takes control, and our new senses can easily deceive us, as we’re moving in a new dimension totally different to the physical world, where the physical rules don’t apply any more. We are like babies learning to walk.


Are you saying we take the same mind we use in the physical to the Astral?

 

[John Tat]

When you quote


I lost interest quickly to be honest, I felt a kind of detachment as if I knew my body didn’t matter at all, that “thing” wasn’t me, it was just the vehicle I’m using this time. Of course I guess this experience is very different for each person.


That is how I view my physical body all of the time

 

[John Tat]

- A good moment to try is early in the morning, after you've had a few hours of good sleep. You can set your alarm clock at 4 or 5 am and when you wake up, get up, read a book or do a bit of mental working, and go back to sleep. Begin the relaxation/concentration techniques then. I've had my best experiences doing it this way.
It is interesting you talk about he morning. Most mornings after I turn the alarm off I do what I would guess most do I drift into no mans land. While I'm in this state I hear people talking to each other. It has gone on for so many years I take little notice of it. It is just what happens most mornings. I have often wondered what it is. Is it imagination, dreaming or something else . Do you know what it may be?


When you quote


- To look for guides in the astral is not a good idea. You must walk this path alone. Occasionally you may want to ask for help, and it’s likely someone will turn up and help you. But beware, there are beings who are not so kind and they’ll want your energy, they’ll try to deceive you, they can tell you whatever you want, they can say they are someone you knew and you’ll believe them. Just like in the real world, there are good and evil beings. If you are not in control, you’d better ignore them


It is interesting you talk about guides. Most of the times I travelled I had a guide.It was always the same guide, I never looked for him he was there waiting for me each time I began


When I went to the wedding I talked about in my other post he was waiting for me and told me there was something very important I had to do. We both arrived at the wedding which was no normal wedding. As I said the bride was someone very close to me like a mother, sister od daughter she was wearing a big red hat but had her back to me facing some strange looking alter. Everyone seemed to know me, but I did not know any of them The wedding could not go ahead unless I was there


Everyone seemed to be scared of me, why I have no idea, I did nothing to make the feel that way. The whole thing spooked me


I give this example because it was the weirdest of them all


I sometimes feel the guide is still around.. Is that possible?

 

[Eowyn]

Hi, John, I'll try to answer your questions, but keep in mind I'm like John Snow from the TV series "Game of thrones", I know nothing.

What do you mean by both an Astral body and mental body

I'm not sure how true or accurate these statements are, but esoteric and other spiritual schools teach we are made of several subtle "bodies", and I think this is a good way to understand our nature. Two of them are the astral body and the mental body. The astral body is very related to emotions, and the mental body would be our mind. When we die, they both linger for a while, as we need them to move in the astral dimension, but eventually they get destroyed too, and our "spirit" (maybe what you call your pure self) carries on and reaches the spiritual world.

Is the mental body part of the physical?

Of course, like I said it's our mind. All subtle bodies are bound together in our physical body. Our physical body starts to decompose first when we die, but all the other remain for a while, some of those subtle bodies would be our "immortal part".

Do you believe we ascend or reincarnate?

From the many accounts I've read it seems both are possible, though reincarnating without "ascending" first is not frequent and could have some risks, as you are still much influenced by your last incarnation and could be a bit confusing. Others decide to stay in the astral for whatever reason (ghosts), but eventually we all ascend to the spiritual world and then reincarnate (if that's what we want, it's all a matter of choice in my opinion).

Are you saying we take the same mind we use in the physical to the Astral?

Yes. Though I've noticed in the astral your mind is free from the physical limits, so it feels like you think in a different way, and like I said, your mind is more powerful, so you have to learn to control it (btw, I'd say this happens in real life too, some researchers say this could be the explanation for many poltergeists).

Most mornings after I turn the alarm off I do what I would guess most do I drift into no mans land. While I'm in this state I hear people talking to each other. It has gone on for so many years I take little notice of it. It is just what happens most mornings. I have often wondered what it is. Is it imagination, dreaming or something else . Do you know what it may be?

It seems you get out of your body (I mean, you "disconnect" from your physical body, it's not necessary to leave your body) and you drift to the astral without being aware of it. Hearing voices is one of the symptoms of astral projection (of course we're talking about hearing voices when you're falling asleep, NOT in a waking state).

I sometimes feel the guide is still around.. Is that possible?

Could be. Maybe it's a real guide, maybe you have someone protecting you, a friend. You know this better than me. All I can say is that you have to be careful who you trust in the astral, just like in real life.

 

[John Tat]

HI Eowyn..


Your replies were very helpful Your explanation about our minds in the Astral was very helpful. When I was there it did not feel it was the same as what I used in the physical world


I'm still a little confused about it, because of the extra abilities we have in the Astral.. for example I don't talk when I'm in the Astral. Whoever I communicate with is through our minds, which is not possible in the physical world. I was also interested in your comments about ascension. I got a distinct feeling from my journeys to the Astral that ascension is not a good option. Maybe I'm wrong but that is what a felt from being there


The pure me does not want to be controlled by the process. It is important that order is kept within the Astral, that may be the problem my pure self has and why I have had difficulty getting back.. Thanks for your help.

 

[DocMcFly]

Eowyn,


Thank you for putting all of that together, and posting it here. I have collected bits and pieces along the way, slowly expanding my awareness of this separation, and your explanations had me saying "a-ha" a few times as certain experiences now seem to make better sense.


I have one question.


If I do this every time I go to sleep (and I do believe this to be the truth), sometimes wandering about in the astral realm, and I am not aware of it, then who is it that is aware while it is happening? And the connected question is who am I that is not aware?


I suppose the answer depends on the nature of "I," and may not be answerable, but "I" thought I'd put it out there.


Thanks again!


Jeff

 

[Eowyn]

If I do this every time I go to sleep (and I do believe this to be the truth), sometimes wandering about in the astral realm, and I am not aware of it, then who is it that is aware while it is happening? And the connected question is who am I that is not aware?
I suppose the answer depends on the nature of "I," and may not be answerable, but "I" thought I'd put it out there.

Hi, DocMcFly!


That's a very interesting question. A few days ago I read something written by one of my "mentors" which imo explains it quite well.


We have to understand our true spiritual nature. "I" am not this physical body I'm in right now. "I" am not a product of my brain. But, "I" am not the mind either. The same way I use my physical body to feel and see the world around me, I also use my mind to think. While in the astral, that mind helps me understand another dimension that is different to the physical world. I no longer have a physical body like the one I have while I'm in the physical world, but a different "vehicle", and the same mind, which now interacts in a different way with a completely different world.


When we die, that mind dies. Who am "I" then? People use all kind of names to define that "I": I'd maybe choose "my higher self", the same "me" but freed from all the "layers" I need to move in a world that vibrates in a lower frequency. Pure consciousness maybe. To become human means to wrap yourself in all these layers that prevent you from seeing the true reality of what we are. Your consciousness becomes "smaller" for a while. We may think this is bad, but probably we need it, if we want to stay focused and experiment a truly human life.


So, the thing here is where our "consciousness" or higher self is focused. Usually we are only aware of the physical world. When we sleep we just black out and our mind takes control: it dreams. Dreams are the product of our mind and brain. But we all can learn to take control, and our higher self can "regain" the power it lost becoming a "prisoner" of a physical body, and it can say: "Mind, stop doing things I don't want to do. Now I take control." This means you are going to start to be more aware of what your mind does when you're not looking. You're going to be aware of how powerful it is, making you a prisoner of your own thoughts, desires, preconceptions, whatever. These, weird as it seems, take shape in the astral. But if you are aware of these, you can destroy them and make them disappear. They're like chains you create, and you can get rid of them as soon as you realize you (your mind) created them.


So: when you "wander" in the astral, who is aware? Well, YOU (your higher self) is aware. But, as we're not totally conscious, it's a constant struggle between your mind and you. Usually, your mind wins. When you're back in your body, you're a prisoner again, you barely remember: your brain and your mind are filters which determine what you remember, most times something blurred that resembles a dream, that's all. When you're in the astral, your consciousness expands, but as soon as you wake up back in your body, your consciousness is quite reduced again.


The trick is the "shift" in that consciousness. Somehow you have to transfer entirely your consciousness to that other dimension, so that you are totally aware of it. I think that for most of us this is only possible when you die (but I'll keep trying!).


Hope this answers your question.

 

[DocMcFly]

Great answer, thanks.


Reminds me of reading Aldous Huxley's Doors of Perception, where he describes taking mescaline, and concluding from his experiences that the brain is not a perceptual tool, but a filtration mechanism; that it doesn't ENABLE us to see, rather it PREVENTS us from seeing.

 

[SeaAndSky]

I am not a very experienced OBE person. I read Robert Monroe's first book (when it could still be considered "cutting edge" back in the dark ages--probably early 70s) and started doing some experimenting. I did come under attack, not during my conscious daytime attempts, but during a nighttime junket that originated while I was asleep. This led to the end of my experiments--but that is another story--though I may want to explore it later.


What I really wanted to bring up at this time is the different way of thinking I experienced, and ask some of our folks with more expertise in this area for their feedback. I can only call it "sub-vocal" in that the concepts making up my thoughts/perceptions progressed without being converted into words in the normal manner I experience in my physical waking consciousness. Since I am a very "word" oriented person, I noticed this afterwards and it still is something that seems distinctive about the experience to me.


I call it "sub-vocal" because I experience thoughts in that fashion. I.e., I perceive a concept and it becomes a concrete thought when it is converted--seemingly effortlessly and magically--into a word in my mind. The process is very fast, just like any well-trained and instinctive action, so what I normally notice is just the sequence of words in my thinking. It is when there is a stumble in the process that I am most likely to notice the sub-vocal part of the sequence. This is when a concept comes to mind, but is not immediately clothed in a suitable word. This exposes the sequence and leads to a secondary process where I come up with some more roundabout way of expressing the concept.


Anyhow, during my brief OBE's my way of thinking and communicating (as I recall it) seemed to be sub-vocal in the way I have just explained. There was a flow of "thoughts" in the form of ideas, concepts and perceptions, as in my normal thinking process, but without the normal almost simultaneous conversion of these thoughts into words. It made me think that "words," at least in the lower "astral" as I experienced it, were not part of thinking, but an artifact and attribute of the physical brain I had left lying on my bed (and probably more specifically of the left hemisphere of that brain). This would make sense to me as "words" are symbols for meaning that are necessary for communication (and perhaps coherent thought) in the physical, but may be unnecessary for these purposes in a higher realm where thought might be experienced as a flow of meaning (concepts) without the necessity of clothing these concepts/meanings in words.


I'm not ready to generalize what I experienced beyond the very rudimentary OBE level I experienced. I just don't have the personal data. Plus, I rather like words (as long as they are optional and not required). Also, Newton's subjects reported music, singing and choirs at the level of the soul's natural home. This is hard to imagine without something like words, but that may just be the prejudice and limitations of my physical mind speaking.


Cordially,


S&S

 

[Eowyn]

That's coherent with the statements I've heard of other astral travellers and my own perceptions, SeaAndSky. Though sometimes we call that type of communication telepathy just to be understood, I've always heard that it's not totally correct, as it's not a real "transmission of thoughts", but something more complex or different to the language we know.


As an aside note, I also think words are very limiting to our communicating potential, let's not forget they're a product of our human nature. We need them to articulate our language and to make sounds so that others can hear what we think in the physical world, but who needs them when there are no physical boundaries anymore and other senses become more powerful?

 

[John Tat]

SeaAndSky


The following is my opinion. I'm only trying to help. It would be great If Eowyh would come in and give opinions and comments on what I will say because I'm only trying to help


As I have said to you before I believe you rely to much on your research and study in trying to find your way with all of this. You have to find your own understandings and those are not in any books or research you do They are a guide to get you on the right track nothing more.


It is my opinion travel is a very personnel thing To travel you must have a strong connection to the pure you/spiritual you. You must meditate constantly with him If you do not establish a strong connection then not only is travel unlikely but also having your own understanding of all of this difficult


When you talked about the probable travel you had you were analytical about the experience which indicates to me you did not really understand what had happened


Stop relying on books and experts and connect to the pure/spiritual you. "you have to find your own way"


Eowyn I hope you give your opinions on this. If I'm wrong then SeaAnd Sky needs to know. He really does want to learn


Regards

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi John,


I appreciate your interest and concern, though I'm not really interested in doing more Astral travel at the moment (for reasons explained below). I just want to understand more about it in general and have a better understanding of what I experienced in the past. Also, I think that the discussion about how thought and communication out of the body is different would be something of interest to you, as it reflects on something you are often talking about--i.e., the difficulty in translating what you receive in that state and/or from your non-physical sources into words here in the physical. In terms of spiritual practices, I do practice meditation as schedule and other duties allow, but not as much as I would like.


Eowyn,


Thanks for your response. I reported an astral travel event from my past in another thread recently which I would like to elaborate in a bit more detail for your feedback. It happened back in the early 70s and I was around 20 at the time. This forum, btw, is the first time/place I have ever discussed these matters with anyone.


Prior to my final experience, I had not gotten very far with the ones I initiated consciously. The experiences were brief and I never left my bedroom--though I can recall some of the "voice" and vibratory phenomena that others report. There was also one weird occasion where I seemed to immediately encounter something like a "net" and couldn't proceed any further, returning to my body. However, my last experience was striking and very scary. I remember it pretty clearly after all of these years. I had apparently left my body while asleep--which seemingly is not uncommon. In the normal course of things I doubt I would recall anything, but I was attacked by something before I got very far from my bedroom--which scared the %^&* out of me, and made me plunge back into my body and wake up, sitting up suddenly in bed, and preserving the memory. Since then I have made no further attempt at such a thing.


Here are a few more details I did not report before. As previously mentioned, I do not remember leaving my body, all I remember is proceeding through my bedroom door towards the stairway leading downstairs. My younger teen sister's bedroom was passed on the way and I remember an interchange with her, even though she was certainly asleep at the time. This was not in words, but in concepts/feelings as discussed before. She sent a "comment" that was a good-humored tease about me doing what I was doing, and I responded with a friendly, good-humored acknowledgement. (Once again, none of this was in words, but an exchange of concepts/feelings bundled together). What I was doing was in some sense "sexual" and I can recall the feeling and slight exhilaration of being on the "prowl" in that regard with the idea that I would soon meet up with a "lover"--though I must confess that I was definitely no Don Juan at the time and this type of thing was certainly no part of my waking existence. I reached the head of the stairs and looked down, where there was a dark figure.


After this, everything happened in a rush as reported above. Somehow the "impact/attack" of the figure and my return to body/sitting up in bed seemed to happen so fast that "speed of thought" comes to mind as a descriptive in regard to both. My impressions of the attacker were a bit confused, and may even have been gathered in the aftermath as a set of mental impressions after I sat up: dead staring eyes--and a desire to stick a knife in through my eye to poison my brain/mind. All weird, of course, and maybe just the projected impressions of some type of entity that just likes to spook and scare unwary and amateurish "travelers" like I was at the time. Still, I notice that many of the people who have avoided this type of thing speak of having guides and/or protective presences with them--which I certainly don't recall having. So, maybe that was also a factor.


Cordially,


S&S

 

[Eowyn]

It is my opinion travel is a very personnel thing To travel you must have a strong connection to the pure you/spiritual you. You must meditate constantly with him If you do not establish a strong connection then not only is travel unlikely but also having your own understanding of all of this difficult
When you talked about the probable travel you had you were analytical about the experience which indicates to me you did not really understand what had happened


Stop relying on books and experts and connect to the pure/spiritual you. "you have to find your own way"

Hi, John. I agree and I disagree with you. Astral travel is a very personal thing, yes. It is a very subjective experience and though sometimes it can be validated, this is rare due to the nature of the experience. It's hard to interpret because we are not aware of how our mind works. Let's not forget astral travel is closely related to dreams, this means that while we are astral projecting, if we are not in total control, our subconscious can manifest in very different ways, just like it does in our dreams. Our fears and desires can literally take shape in the astral, that's the reason why only the people having the experience can discern what is "real" and what is not. We also must keep in mind that the definition of "real" is not easy in AP. A black monster can indeed look very real and frighten you, this is what has originated all the myths surrounding AP, such as the existence of "demons", "Incubii" and other kind of creatures. Only if you are conscious enough and in control of your emotions, you can wonder and find out if they are real creatures or just a reflection of your own mind.


I agree it is better to go your own path and don't rely too much on books. You don't need to. What you read can lead you to create your own reality in the astral and be deceived again. And besides, no one really knows the nature of it, so you must be brave and do it on your own. It is also true it is important to lead a life with some kind of "spiritual practice", but not because this is necessary to astral project, but because this will help you to be in control of your emotions, and of course it will also be better when you are trying to relax to consciously astral project.


All of us astral project when we're asleep, and from what I've seen, being more or less aware of it doesn't depend on how spiritual you are, but on other factors, some of them quite natural, even "physiological".

 

[Eowyn]

Thanks for your response. I reported an astral travel event from my past in another thread recently which I would like to elaborate in a bit more detail for your feedback. It happened back in the early 70s and I was around 20 at the time. This forum, btw, is the first time/place I have ever discussed these matters with anyone.

Hi, SeaAndSky. Your experiences are quite similar to the ones other astral travellers report. Voices and vibrations are very common. Vibrations occur when you're about to separate from your physical body. Voices, you can hear them all the time, sometimes they remain in the background, other times you can talk to them. The net you encountered is a curious thing, possibly just an obstacle created by your own mind, as sometimes there is a part of us who is scared or thinks you shouldn't be doing that, or maybe you just think you can't walk in the astral. I take it as the cases where you are trying to go through a wall and you can't. It's not because you really can't, but because you think you can't. In the astral the limits are in our own mind really.


Now, in regards to the scary experience: it's also quite common you don't remember the exact moment you leave your body, as it's very, very hard, to be completely aware of the separation. So, if you're trying to AP consciously, it's frequent you lose consciousness just before you're out, and the next second you awake already in the astral. Other people who have spontaneous experiences also use to wake up in the astral, and they usually believe it was all a dream. Brief experiences, especially at the beginning, are also the norm. As you describe, you may be in your bedroom, you may explore a bit around the house or go out, and soon after that you lose consciousness or you are aware how you get back to your body. All this is because a lot of training and mind control are required to get further, do what you really want to do, and be totally awake all the while.


I can't know if the figure that attacked you was real or not. Like I said in my previous post, it might be a "reflection" of your subconscious fears, or it might be a real creature (there are souls in the astral and "other things", and they can be good or bad, just like in real life). Whatever it was, there is no need to worry, as they can't harm you. Just asking yourself whether they're real or not, it's likely they will fade away, if they are a creation of your mind. And if they are real, you can use your imagination to attack them and let them know you're not afraid. Just thinking about something positive or someone you love, you will fill yourself with enough good energy to make them retreat.


Guides and protective "entities", well, I would trust no one in the astral, as anyone can call themselves "guide" and maybe they would only be telling you lies. I've never encountered any, though sometimes I've asked for help and someone has turned up to help me. So... you never know. But I'd just recommend: trust yourself.


I understand this experience was scary for you, but it also seems you have a good ability to AP, and I see no reason why you shouldn't try again, if that's what you'd like.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Eowyn,


Thanks for your response! I have wondered some of the same things about the "scary" I encountered and whether it was objectively real or my own creation. If you are right about the "net" it could be that I was seeking to block myself with increasingly draconian measures and conjured my own Boogie Man to scare myself away from further AP (though it certainly seemed like "not me"). Since I seem to be doing the same thing with PL memories, it could be a general sense of unreadiness for the consequences or something similar. I've also wondered whether I could have overcome my attacker in some way. I've heard that some entities like to taunt and intimidate, feeding off of the fear induced. And, perhaps if it had acted in that way, allowing me to get my thoughts together, the result might have been different. But overall, I don't think this one operated that way. The attack was amazingly sudden and my response completely instinctual--which is part of the reason why I believe your comment about our ability to avoid harm during AP. The ability and speed with which one can return to the body and avoid danger seems to be a cure-all for most unpleasant situations.


The sexual aspect of the experience was interesting for a variety of reasons. I had read about this type of thing in Monroe, but I can guarantee that Monroe was not on my mind at all at the time. I felt like I was doing something I had done many times before, though it was completely at odds with my rather shy (and still) mostly adolescent "waking" self at the time. Also, we have had a long debate on this board over whether the "soul" that reincarnates has an innate gender. I don't think that my experience proves anything on that one way or the other, but I definitely think that we continue to possess gender related desires in (at least) the lower Astral.


I also thought the communication with my sister was intriguing. It seems like we may be even more "awake" in some respects when we are sound asleep in the physical.


I am generally pretty ambivalent about whether to try it again. It has been around 40 years, so perhaps another try is in order. However, I don't really have a lot of incentive in my own mind for doing so. The bits of catch-up reading I have been doing of late tend to indicate that the Astral is mostly a miasmic mix of Belief Zones and total confusion--which is almost to be expected when perceived reality is so subject to being molded by the beliefs/desires of individuals or groups. Frankly, I feel like I'm mostly interested in staying very close to the physical and enjoying the sights or, alternatively, bypassing the messy in-between and getting to something higher and better than the Astral. I doubt my ability to do the latter at my current stage of growth. In terms of the staying close to the physical, most of the things I have read seem to indicate that is not as "easy" as it might seem either. So, for the time being . . . .


I also agree with your comments re guides and etc. I have a general aversion to "channeled" information about "higher" things and prefer either (1) first hand accounts (like yours); (2) scientific studies (which are usually based on first hand accounts); or (2) religious sources. Likewise, a stranger is still a stranger whether in the physical or the astral. Nonetheless, in a pinch--such as being attacked (physical or astral)--I'm likely to accept help from anyone who can deliver.


Cordially,


S&S

 

[SeaAndSky]

Eowyn,


This is a bit of a continuation, but also maybe a search for inspiration. What I mostly hear about in terms of the Astral is tangled up perceptions, tangled up places, tangled up beings, and a tangled up sense of what is real and what isn't. What I really want to hear about is something beautiful and "fixed"--or at least as "fixed" as a place can be in that realm. I'd like to know that there is a wonderful and beautiful "garden" spot in the middle of what I increasingly hear is almost completely chaotic.


I think I may want to do this, but what I really want is a goal: a reason to do it more than just dong it, a place to go that fills me with wonder and that I will want to return to again and again.


Can you tell me about a place or some places like this? Something you think is wonderful. I'd like to envision them and seek them. It would give me a reason to take another chance at this, and I'd really like that.


Cordially,


S&S

 

[Mere Dreamer]

This is interesting, S&S, because it brought to mind a rare nightmare I had during the process of letting go of an abusive relationship. I had already left him some time before, but he still exerted residual control over my thoughts and actions.


I woke in the dream, and many of the astral indicators were present, though I didn't have the knowledge to recognize them at the time. The room and the house were clearly my current home, though the layout didn't match the tangible world. Beds, rooms, doors, and stairs had shifted in that fluid way they have on the other side. The pieces were all defining their own order in a "more real than reality" way that was familiar, like home is meant to feel when we pay attention.


My ex was seated next to my bed, observing me. I knew it was him because I know the pressure of his internal presence, even without the physical cues. I first knew that I was asleep and aware of him, then I woke within the dream to find he was surrounded in darkness that didn't allow visual confirmation (even though he was tangibly and purposefully intruding on me). The rest of the room announced its layout in shades of blue and grey. He was darkness.


I rose from the bed, unable to speak, and decided he would leave if I went to my parents' room. They live upstairs from my apartment, so I walked up the stairs, past the entrance, and into my parents' kitchen, where I suddenly felt him holding to my arm with an insubstantial, but very real grip. I had no voice. I couldn't move. And he could do no more than hold me in place. I knew if I could gather the strength to either shove him out the door or call my dad he wouldn't be able to resist or re-enter the house.


He didn't feel that powerful, just resentful and intrusive, making use of that edge of fear he had created by hovering over me in my sleep. I felt he was not capable of actually harming me.


I suddenly awoke again, this time in my physical body, and turned on the light to confirm that he had not entered the house and come to stand over my bed. I wrote down what had happened as is my habit when I wake up enough to write.


After that (and a previous similar, but much more invasive and terrifying, dream) I intensified my efforts to find a way to eliminate my attachment to him. At some point I discovered our past life connection, let go of the expectation for change I had been clinging to, and ever since his only presence in my dreams has been as a background character in the usual life-sorting dramas that I can easily interpret.


My point is that I knew very clearly, even in the middle of dream walking, that he had no power over me except my own reaction of fear. If I had not feared him, he could not have touched me or even remained in my environment without losing all power to harm. If I had not been afraid, he would have been meaningless or ineffective before me, or he would not have been there at all.


I knew enough to look for some assistance to build my courage, and thankfully realized I could wake up as an alternative to escape.