General George S. Patton thread

[Jet]

I ran across this http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/543355/posts ,by General George S. Patton... I have heard stories about his belief in past lives,and wondered if anyone here had any more info on him??

I checked out several books from the library. His belief in reincarnation is verified. Very interesting reading. I wish I knew the names of the books now but I was researching his reincarnation beliefs twenty years ago.

 

[Ritter]

I think General George Patton has come up several times before on the board. His belief in reincarnation is well known, and has been portrayed in various books, movies and articles--and there is much more that can be read about him on the internet. Indeed, he never had to be convinced. He had memories of ancient battles from his earliest years. However, the reason I bring him up is not for this, as others have memories from childhood--including other famous people. I bring it up because he saw himself always as a warrior, and one who would return again as a warrior when there were great battles to be fought and won. So, I am fascinated by his sense of destiny and direction over the course of many lives. What others may think of such things I do not know. There are those who have come back to the same places or the same fields of endeavor, but somehow there is always an undercurrent idea that one is becoming more "peaceable" and gentle along the way. In contrast to this, Patton would probably say he was becoming sharper and more honed to serve as a warrior in whatever great conflicts arose. For the good, I hope. His poem describing his past lives is worth a read as well:

THROUGH A GLASS, DARKLY

Through the travail of the ages,
Midst the pomp and toil of war,
Have I fought and strove and perished
Countless times upon this star.

In the form of many people
In all panoplies of time
Have I seen the luring vision
Of the Victory Maid, sublime.

I have battled for fresh mammoth,
I have warred for pastures new,
I have listed to the whispers
When the race trek instinct grew.

I have known the call to battle
In each changeless changing shape
From the high souled voice of conscience
To the beastly lust for rape.

I have sinned and I have suffered,
Played the hero and the knave;
Fought for belly, shame, or country,
And for each have found a grave.

I cannot name my battles
For the visions are not clear,
Yet, I see the twisted faces
And I feel the rending spear.

Perhaps I stabbed our Savior
In His sacred helpless side.
Yet, I've called His name in blessing
When after times I died.

In the dimness of the shadows
Where we hairy heathens warred,
I can taste in thought the lifeblood;
We used teeth before the sword.

While in later clearer vision
I can sense the coppery sweat,
Feel the pikes grow wet and slippery
When our Phalanx, Cyrus met.

Hear the rattle of the harness
Where the Persian darts bounced clear,
See their chariots wheel in panic
From the Hoplite's leveled spear.

See the goal grow monthly longer,
Reaching for the walls of Tyre.
Hear the crash of tons of granite,
Smell the quenchless eastern fire.

Still more clearly as a Roman,
Can I see the Legion close,
As our third rank moved in forward
And the short sword found our foes.

Once again I feel the anguish
Of that blistering treeless plain
When the Parthian showered death bolts,
And our discipline was in vain.

I remember all the suffering
Of those arrows in my neck.
Yet, I stabbed a grinning savage
As I died upon my back.

Once again I smell the heat sparks
When my flemish plate gave way
And the lance ripped through my entrails
As on Crecy's field I lay.

In the windless, blinding stillness
Of the glittering tropic sea
I can see the bubbles rising
Where we set the captives free.

Midst the spume of half a tempest
I have heard the bulwarks go
When the crashing, point blank round shot
Sent destruction to our foe.

I have fought with gun and cutlass
On the red and slippery deck
With all Hell aflame within me
And a rope around my neck.

And still later as a General
Have I galloped with Murat
When we laughed at death and numbers
Trusting in the Emperor's Star.

Till at last our star faded,
And we shouted to our doom
Where the sunken road of Ohein
Closed us in it's quivering gloom.

So but now with Tanks a'clatter
Have I waddled on the foe
Belching death at twenty paces,
By the star shell's ghastly glow.

So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, -- but always me.

And I see not in my blindness
What the objects were I wrought,
But as God rules o'er our bickerings
It was through His will I fought.

So forever in the future,
Shall I battle as of yore,
Dying to be born a fighter,
But to die again, once more.

Thank you so very much for showing us that poem. This taught me more about his lives. Interestingly, we seem to have fought on the same side a couple of times, not just opposites as we did in the Punic Wars. Although I am not sure who he was or if it was in the exact same one considering the conflict spanned some eight decades. We also fought in the Second World War, although he reportedly did regret that in his final days. He seemed to have ridden with Murat and fought for Emperor Napoleon. I cannot fault him for that. The best of company.

Despite our differences, the poem made one thing clear to me. We are startlingly similar, he and I. Unbeknownst to most here, I also write poetry occasionally. Warriors are supposed to be able to, and I just always was, as with most things. I am sure nobody had to teach him, either. When most people do it, the end result is something silly. This poem captured his very soul, and I feel that I know it too well to put into words. I wish I knew any currently alive people that share this long and hard path. I came here searching for it, initially, but have not found that attitude intact, as he had and I have.

The poem above is to me a sort of assurance that I am not alone in the cosmos. A sort of message in a bottle. I love battle. All of it. Just like a stone age man would have loved hunting Mammoth and sabretooth tigers, even if it was deadly. I love battle, even though the enemy are fathers and husbands too. Death is not final, for those born to battle. Like my ancestors, I believe that reincarnation is a possibility within a (pretty broad) bloodline and not universal. Some people, not all, by a long shot. For most, not many times. But for those who fight and do so with honor and bravery, absolutely. Fighting is immortality to me. Not fighting is the dark abbyss of nothingness.

I love battle even if it is often dirty, disease-ridden, hungry, malnourished, brutal, cruel, wet, dry, cold, too warm, aching with wear, sleeplessness and absolutely insane. When the veneer of civilization comes off and the fight is tooth and nail, people like Patton and I are in our native element, which is chaos, fire and blood. Peace on earth and a financial-based reality is literally hell to us. I don't expect all that many to understand. Perhaps someone will.

A truly modern and new person could never understand things like glory, honor or the lives of an Einherjer. Yes, Norse religion has a name for people like us.

This was well-known - in some circles - in pagan times. It survived in the Eddas, but is misunderstood. Einherjer are not just going to fight "the final battle" at Ragnarök, at the field of Vigriđr. The world is cyclical. Einherjer, in the sagas, fight each day and feast each night in the hall of Ođin, Valhalla, where valkyries bring them mead and wild boar. Fighting each day symbolizes being reborn as a warrior. Time and again. And this is how reincarnation works, in my experience. The norse sagas are meant to be taken symbolically, and not literally. Valhalla is not a mead hall, it is a plane of existence. A place to rest, heal, learn and grow. Mead is learning, meat and rest means growing. It is Heaven. Elysium. It has many names, although humanity has largely forgotten how you end up there and not in Hel, which is oblivion, and why some are reborn and others not.

Knowing this, it is easy to see why norsemen were eager to battle and fought like madmen, and why some men in history have been the same. Notably the Waffen SS, which had in it countless reborn Einherjer, and were led by such men. Some aware, some not. To the best of my explanatory ability, this is why true warriors do not fear or hate battle, but love it, despite its rougher sides. It is immortality and undying glory.

Perhaps some here can understand. SpiritSword or yourself, probably. Maybe a few others, if they find it buried deep within themselves.

Thank you, nevertheless, S&S, I hope I will fight on the same side as this man, this time. I seldom pray, but I do pray to our Skyfather - the Allfather, our God, Guđ, Gaut and Ođin, who has countless names and faces throughout all of human history - that I shall be able to find him and others like us.

If this is the final days, as I believe, then I hope my brothers are all here on Earth today and born to fight on the same side of Good. Nothing and no evil could stand against that. Some believe in "The Age of Aquarius" or "Satya Yuga" and such. In Norse, we call the world after the cycle begins anew - after Ragnarök - "Gimle". The golden age. It is startlingly similar in all pagan religions, and I bet I could even find it in old Buddhist texts if I really looked.

Nevertheless, thanks. I really feel good after that poem.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Ritter,

I'm glad you like Patton's poem and find in him a kindred spirit. There are others around, I am sure of that. However, though I can appreciate and "understand" (from a distance) the warrior spirits among us, I do not think that I am one. I am something different. Similar in some ways, but not the same.

You probably also appreciate the poem on Valor that followed the one you quoted. The last four stanzas sound similar to some of the things you were saying above about the corrupting drive for wealth. Out of those, there are two that stand out to me, almost seem like a credo for the warrior spirit:

Let us, while willing yet for peace,
Still keep our valor high,
So when our time of battle comes,
We shall not fear to die.

For death is nothing, comfort less,
Valor is all in all;
Base nations who depart from it,
Shall sure and justly fall.

Cordially,
S&S

 

[Ritter]

Hi Ritter,

I'm glad you like Patton's poem and find in him a kindred spirit. There are others around, I am sure of that. However, though I can appreciate and "understand" (from a distance) the warrior spirits among us, I do not think that I am one. I am something different. Similar in some ways, but not the same.

You probably also appreciate the poem on Valor that followed the one you quoted. The last four stanzas sound similar to some of the things you were saying above about the corrupting drive for wealth. Out of those, there are two that stand out to me, almost seem like a credo for the warrior spirit:

Let us, while willing yet for peace,
Still keep our valor high,
So when our time of battle comes,
We shall not fear to die.

For death is nothing, comfort less,
Valor is all in all;
Base nations who depart from it,
Shall sure and justly fall.

Cordially,
S&S

Where do you find these poems, and are there more?
I do not generally read a lot of poetry - as I have no love for modern 'artists', who would cry if they were struck - beyond Japanese death poems and Rudyard Kipling, but I do appreciate this fully.

I assume not all are the same. But I do wonder if that right there is the explanation why those who truly remember and stay very much the same tend to be warrior types. However, given what most of our ancestors believed, do consider the possibility of modern people and even many of those reincarnated having lost their spirit and The Way. Bushido, basically. The secret of which is to embrace death and love battle, to live for honor, justice and glory.

For death is nothing, comfort less,
Valor is all in all;
Base nations who depart from it,
Shall sure and justly fall.

Just as he says here. This is what our pre-Christian ancestors believed. No one knows for how long or where it began. I would call it an eternal truth. The Way of the Warrior is perhaps not the only way, but looking at things... It is what I believe. Why would the gods favor anyone but the bold, those who constantly aspire to heroic greatness? I believe we have set the bar too low and been without such guiding principles, for a very long time. If I am getting old and the chance to fight has somehow still eluded me, I will simply fight on my own and die doing something worth doing. It, too, is an ancestral way of things. Although I am fairly certain that the coming decade will see increasing conflict in the West, and plenty to do for people like me, or you, or anyone else so disposed.

Just a thought. Reject it if you like, as the pagan outlook that it surely is.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Ritter,

I don't think that one needs to be pre-Christian. Patton was a practicing Christian. There is even the somewhat humorous and famous incident in which he had the Chaplain write a prayer to God for clear weather so that his army could--there is no way to put this delicately--kill Germans. The Chaplain wrote the prayer, which was printed on cards and distributed to everyone under his command to pray. The weather cleared, and Patton gave the Chaplain a medal. (https://scottmanning.com/content/general-pattons-prayer/ ). The whole matter certainly opens up a can of worms in terms of what prayers God will or won't grant, but whether the weather cleared in answer to prayer or was a random occurrence, it appears clear that Patton was serious about the matter.

In terms of reincarnation or (as you seem to think) some form of oblivion, there doesn't seem to be any connection between being a warrior and being something else in terms of reincarnation that I can find either in any research or in what I find on this board. All kinds of people reincarnate. And, people seem to have all kinds of lives--except it seems--certain warrior types that seem to keep coming back as warriors. And, these seem to have some of the clearest memories of serial reincarnation--always as warriors. So, maybe there is something to that, though I don't know why this would be. Perhaps the dedication to a particular vocation not only causes the repetition in that role, but opens up memory of PLs in that role. Hmm. I've no answer to that myself, but it is an interesting area for further study.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I'd rather deal with an honest and devout pagan than a smug and self-satisfied materialist/atheist or agnostic of the modern variety. I actually have a lot more in common with the pagan, and there is a lot more of interest to me that we can discuss.

 

[landsend]

Have been thinking about Gen. Patton for some time. His beliefs were certainly interesting, and his poetry, too. Also, it's always good to find prominent folks who believed in reincarnation, particularly military men. It's comforting to someone who has memories of previous wars. It always makes me come back to the question of why some of us are drawn to war time & time again. I find there is a glorification of war in his words, quite far removed from the trauma. It's much less the blood and guts, and more the glory, I'd say.

I'll also add I'm sorry whenever I see a contributing forum member banned, not because it wasn't deserved -- I don't know why I'm even feeling bad considering he expressed blatantly antisemitic views to me in private conversation. Maybe I feel sorry because part of me believes he came to this forum to also find some understanding, hopefully understanding that helps him see another pathway other than hate. I didn't always agree with Ritter, but he did add a different perspective to an argument. I also think that he didn't quite know how to express that he needed help with his troubles and frustrations. But first and foremost this is a place of healing, and peace -- as much as we can question, and debate here, most folks know when and how to back down. I suppose it's the same sadness I feel for humanities self destructive tendencies as a whole.

Sorry for the brief change of topic, now back to Patton.

 

[landsend]

Browsing around on the net, I found this video by Gen. Jim 'Mad Dog' Mattis on the nature of war.

I couldn't help but see the physical resemblance between him and Patton. As well as their manner of being.

Apparently, I'm not the only one to think this: https://reincarnationresearch.com/patton/

Interesting all the same.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Landsend,

I was also very unhappy to find that Ritter had been banned. He brought some unique perspectives to the board. This is a great place, but things tend to get a bit stale from time-to-time and it was good to have a very novel approach and viewpoint. However, it was very difficult to convince him to not take the bait when challenged and to not challenge back--even and perhaps especially when challenged by the board's authority figures. I know this from personal experience, as I definitely tried. Ken more or less asked me what was up with that. I had to respond that I thought Ritter was very definitely worth the effort. I have found the three ex-SS guys who recently came aboard (Tanker, Ritter and Benjamin) to all be very much worth the effort. But unlike the others, there was nothing reformed or apologetic about Ritter. Consequently, coming from the side and group in WWII that was expected to be (or at least act) apologetic, this immediately raised the ire of many. Somehow it did not impact me in this way. To me Ritter was more like a time traveler who stepped out of one time and into another--completely unaffected by what had happened in-between. Talking to him (as I did by PM) was always a bit like talking to someone from another and very different era--Attila or Caesar. I disagreed with him intensely on a variety of subjects, but was somehow not offended by ideas and statements that would have offended me coming from a contemporary. He didn't seem like a person of this century to me, but more like the WWII SS tank commander he used to be--displaced in time, snatched out of the midst of a losing battle and still very angry and dedicated to the "cause". Somehow I think I hoped to bring him out of some of that, but he was more than a match for me--at least in the short range. Anyhow, if it does any good, this can be considered as my appeal to "management" for his reinstatement. He is a worthwhile contributor, and "management" can and will no doubt delete what it doesn't like. Even with some deletions, I always find his posts worth reading.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Besides, someone who admires good ol' Gen. Patton ("Old Blood and Guts") as much as Ritter can't be all bad!

 

[Jim78]

IMO Ritter was a naive shaper with no clue of what war is really about.

I'm glad to see the back of him. The only thing I don't like is that he ran from confrontation. Some warrior. He only confronted the mods out of ego. Its a shame he didn't confront me before he got out of his pram.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Jim,

I don't think Ritter is a poser any more than I think you are a poser. You are likewise wrong about running from confrontation. Though initially unwilling, he was pressed by me and I think some others as well to ignore a variety of baiting attacks and provocations from other posters which I (and perhaps he as well) believed to be aimed at getting him banned. I don't know why you two detest each other so much, though I can say his opinion of you is as low as yours is of him. I find both opinions strange, as I have a high opinion of both of you in terms of your fighting backgrounds and propensities. Ritter is, however, more of a challenge to me on another front--which is one of the reasons I find him an interesting addition to the board: He--like Patton--doesn't fit my paradigm for spiritual advance. I am very familiar with the traumatized warrior, the repentant warrior, and also with the "moving on" warrior, and I see plenty of them on the board (including you). I can fit all of them into my existing ideas of how we spiritually advance. However, I am still trying to wrap my mind around the untraumatized, enthusiastic and unrepentant warrior, the one that embraces and loves his destiny of fighting life after life after life and intends to continue doing so. I would say that Ritter was an anomaly or a liar, except I was already familiar with Patton and his position on the matter before Ritter came to the board. So, it seems that this "type" exists. But how to fit it into the BIG picture is another matter.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--In another era you two could have had a duel and settled the matter. I tend to think you may have also bumped heads in another lifetime, but who knows.

 

[Jet]

I am just new here. What did Ritter get kicked off the board here? I thought he was interesting.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Shannon,

I don't have much time to answer your query at the moment, but Alex and plenty of others can do so. (Plus, see below).

Hi Alex,

I put people and what they believe in separate categories when I can. Hence, I like a whole lot of folks who are liberals, even when I don't like their politics. I could do the same with the politically correct (whose beliefs and actions I utterly detest in most cases), if they were a bit nicer. Unfortunately, I must not come in contact with enough of the really PC crowd to have found one who is likable--at least not yet.

In terms of eugenics, I'm not sure I know what you mean. So, you may have to explain what your criticism is there. In terms of Nazis, you might as well strike the "neo". There is nothing "neo" about Ritter. He's still the same real deal un-disillusioned original issue SS indoctrinated believer he was back then. OTOH, that means that he still believes what they told him back in the early 40s and that most of what has been said and taught about the cause he fought for by the winners since then is a lie. Not only a lie, but the worst of slanders. According to him, the real battle was against the evil Communists (and Stalin and his minions were certainly some of the worst of people). So, it is not as if he embraces the evil Nazi image and what people now say that they did. He doesn't believe it is true. Getting into more than that would get into politics and controversy to deeply (and invite a rebuke from on high). So, you may consider him to be crazy on that front, but if so, he's not preaching it on the board. Beyond that, yep, he is over the line in a lot of places. But I'd rather try to convince him that he is in error (by PM and etc.) than ostracize and avoid. I guess that is just my way, as long as I am dealing with a mind that can reason and seems to be somewhat reasonable. With Ritter I think I am. (I have my doubts with most of the PC crowd).

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I grew up in a different era. A lot of people I have liked, including my parents, would be considered to be way over the line by today's standards. However, I'm not going to bash them for that. They were people of their era, and most everybody else was saying the same things.

 

[Jet]

I was raised

Hi Shannon,

I don't have much time to answer your query at the moment, but Alex and plenty of others can do so. (Plus, see below).

Hi Alex,

I put people and what they believe in separate categories when I can. Hence, I like a whole lot of folks who are liberals, even when I don't like their politics. I could do the same with the politically correct (whose beliefs and actions I utterly detest in most cases), if they were a bit nicer. Unfortunately, I must not come in contact with enough of the really PC crowd to have found one who is likable--at least not yet.

In terms of eugenics, I'm not sure I know what you mean. So, you may have to explain what your criticism is there. In terms of Nazis, you might as well strike the "neo". There is nothing "neo" about Ritter. He's still the same real deal un-disillusioned original issue SS indoctrinated believer he was back then. OTOH, that means that he still believes what they told him back in the early 40s and that most of what has been said and taught about the cause he fought for by the winners since then is a lie. Not only a lie, but the worst of slanders. According to him, the real battle was against the evil Communists (and Stalin and his minions were certainly some of the worst of people). So, it is not as if he embraces the evil Nazi image and what people now say that they did. He doesn't believe it is true. Getting into more than that would get into politics and controversy to deeply (and invite a rebuke from on high). So, you may consider him to be crazy on that front, but if so, he's not preaching it on the board. Beyond that, yep, he is over the line in a lot of places. But I'd rather try to convince him that he is in error (by PM and etc.) than ostracize and avoid. I guess that is just my way, as long as I am dealing with a mind that can reason and seems to be somewhat reasonable. With Ritter I think I am. (I have my doubts with most of the PC crowd).

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I grew up in a different era. A lot of people I have liked, including my parents, would be considered to be way over the line by today's standards. However, I'm not going to bash them for that. They were people of their era, and most everybody else was saying the same things.

I was raised In This Life by a WW2 veteran. Thank goodness PC is not in my makeup. Did I step into the wrong forum?

 

[KenJ]

Not as far as I'm concerned.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Jet,

No, the forum is not particularly PC (thank goodness), though I think the highest levels are a bit more PC than the everyday moderators. (Just an impression on my part). Also, there are a fair number of oldsters (including Ken, John Tat, me, and now you!). However, there are some lines to be avoided. Of course, the full rules are elsewhere, but in practice I have found it best to: (1) not get too religious anywhere but on the religion and spirituality thread; (2) keep it kid friendly (avoid profanity, raciness, etc.); (3) no politics; (4) polite disagreements are OK, but really intense arguments will be quashed in most cases, sometimes ruthlessly; and (5) respect the management, who are all volunteers and do their best. I think (5) was where Ritter really went wrong. He was unhappy about some deletions in his posts--which I think were based in rules (2)-(4), and launched into a diatribe against management, violating rule (5) one time too many.

Cordially,
S&S

 

[Jet]

Hi Jet,

No, the forum is not particularly PC (thank goodness), though I think the highest levels are a bit more PC than the everyday moderators. (Just an impression on my part). Also, there are a fair number of oldsters (including Ken, John Tat, me, and now you!). However, there are some lines to be avoided. Of course, the full rules are elsewhere, but in practice I have found it best to: (1) not get too religious anywhere but on the religion and spirituality thread; (2) keep it kid friendly (avoid profanity, raciness, etc.); (3) no politics; (4) polite disagreements are OK, but really intense arguments will be quashed in most cases, sometimes ruthlessly; and (5) respect the management, who are all volunteers and do their best. I think (5) was where Ritter really went wrong. He was unhappy about some deletions in his posts--which I think were based in rules (2)-(4), and launched into a diatribe against management, violating rule (5) one time too many.



Cordially,
S&S

I did read the forum rules and deleted one of my threads already because it broke a rule.

I would like to bring up a point on General George Patton. After he beat the Germans he wanted to enlist them to fight Stalin. Stalin was a great evil and I wish Old Blood and Guts would have been allowed to do this. I know it would have been many American casualties though. I suppose I might not even be here in my present family.

 

[Jim78]

I think Ritter was a shaper S&S. He had zero idea about consequence. That was proven by his behaviour towards the mods before he was banned. A true warrior knows consequence. You can't formulate strategies without it.

Also before he put everyone on ignore that disagreed with him he had the opportunity to confront me and didn't. He also had the opportunity to confront me when he went on his suicide run. He didn't.

I detested him because of his ideology. I've fought for Republican ideals in three lifetimes. Facist ideology runs counter to that. He believed in eugenics, superiority of races over others etc. He believed in oppressing the weak, not fighting for them. That's not a warrior. Its a neonazi.

I was a warrior much like Patton up until October 2015 when my conscience was fully awakened. I reckon it's on the cards for every unrepentant warrior.

I'm not PC in the slightest myself. Ireland was far from PC in the 1980s. I find the far left ideology to be as disgusting as Ritter's. Its about selfishness and control not freedom. That's all I want to say on PC culture.

 

[landsend]

Gotta agree with Jim overall.

It’s easy to put folks who speak their mind on a pedestal and call it freedom of speech. When really those same individuals stand for ways that would seek to limit freedom, freedom to speak ones own mind being one of them.

According to Ritter, because I was Jewish in a previous life, I have no soul. So if you believe that, disregard the rest of this post and all my posts.

I am sorry that folks have to be banned at all and can’t see the error of their ways. That was the major point in my post.

As for Patton. I don’t think there was an inch of repentance in his poems. He spoke his mind freely in his poems. Some of those poetry talk about feeling the bestial lust for rape. I recall throwing my guts up, on all fours clutching the ground like a dog after an incident occurred of rape of which was instigated by myself in a previous life in the revenge madness of Vietnam. My soul was wiped from my body. Broken.

One of the things I struggle with in this ideology of the eternal warrior is — where does it end? Does it end with the warrior triumphant, standing alone in the crumbles of a world which his need and lust for destruction and rape destroyed? Who is left to kill but himself?

I couldn’t help but think (the cynical part of me) that Patton couldn’t see the light beyond the corner of his own behind.

How about the endless grief and tears of a woman, and her children left behind because her husband has been killed, or worse maimed, psychologically scarred and wounded morally at the core of his soul? Sing about that one Patton.

 

[landsend]

Maybe it’s my fault. I’m too soft and like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. I also recognised in him a little spark to change. I don’t think he fully believed in all that drivel. Any intelligent person would question such ideology.

But then again many intelligent people can convince themselves of elaborate conspiracy theories.

As someone who suffers with mental health, I understand how easy it is to find a scapegoat instead of looking at the situation at hand and accepting responsibility for your own pain, and problems rather than the world at large or a group of people(s). We are all as individuals at fault here, and we all have to take responsibilities for present actions.

The more I live, the more I see that it takes incredible strength and wisdom to live humble, do no harm. Cause little damage to the world and it’s peoples. That takes real strength. And it takes real strength when a warrior uses his or her strength of purpose to drive more good in the world.

 

[Jim78]

Yup. Patton was unrepentant landsend.

I came to a crossroads in 2014 and my warriors code left me with no more enemies to fight but myself. That path led me to stare into the gates of hell.

I don't think warriors serve a divine purpose anymore. I think they are just souls who are learning at their own pace. Nothing special. Ritter's overly elaborate prose waxing poetical on what he thought a warrior was is fantasy IMO. Everyone has to pay the boatman eventually, it doesn't matter how special one thinks they are.

 

[landsend]

Yup. Patton was unrepentant landsend.

I came to a crossroads in 2014 and my warriors code left me with no more enemies to fight but myself. That path led me to stare into the gates of hell.

I don't think warriors serve a divine purpose anymore. I think they are just souls who are learning at their own pace. Nothing special. Ritter's overly elaborate prose waxing poetical on what he thought a warrior was is fantasy IMO. Everyone has to pay the boatman eventually, it doesn't matter how special one thinks they are.

Yep the boatman is receiving heavy taxes from me. This life is basically looking at myself in the mirror, seeing what I’ve done and having to face up to the consequences. My ego has been crushed and crushed again. That’s been laid out in my life. I wonder why some people choose lives that allow them to avoid themselves, either through their physical bodies and positions in life, and other people have lives which allow them to see a completely different perspective. Literally a different perspective in my case. The world looks different down here, standing not much taller than the average Vietnamese male.

What is a man profited coming back time and time again as an exact replica of himself? Seems fruitless.

 

[Jim78]

Me too landsend. I've stared into the mirror too and I've seen absolute horror staring back at me.

I think one can't know if they were replicas of themselves or not without reincarnation knowledge. Patton was a replica of himself. So was I up until after I remembered reincarnation. Sure I had a different body, a different accent. My tactics were different. My stations in life were different and reflected the politic structures of every different era I lived in.

Yet it seems to me that I had to learn all aspects of conflict, fighting for glory, for freedom, for love, before I knew its pointlessness. Perhaps Patton simply hadn't reached that point yet. Who knows, maybe he has reached that point in his current incarnation, maybe he hasn't.

Its my first life to look back and gain a deeper understanding of myself too Alex. I stayed apolitical in my current life. It helped me make humanistic choices for the good of everyone. I made those choices before I remembered reincarnation so that gives me a glimmer of hope that incarnations are not simply constantly and blindly following the same patterns because of their 'soul amnesia'.

 

[Speedwell]

The more I live, the more I see that it takes incredible strength and wisdom to live humble, do no harm. Cause little damage to the world and it’s peoples. That takes real strength. And it takes real strength when a warrior uses his or her strength of purpose to drive more good in the world.

You've reminded me of something. First, I don't see myself as a warrior, that doesn't quite fit who I am. But, I remember when I was a kid fresh out of school, about to embark on - something, I wasn't sure what. I had just one goal for this life: to get through it without leaving a trail of destruction scattered in my wake.

I don't know where that thought came from, it wasn't something I'd reached by rational thought, nor was it something I remembered anyone in particular saying. It just seemed to be there: don't leave a trail of destruction.

Now, decades later I see it hasn't been so easy, I've messed up plenty of times, sometimes wilfully so, not by mere chance or circumstance. I'm not able to judge how well I've done so far. But on the other hand I think most of us can be our own sternest critic at times, perhaps I can't see clearly while in the midst of things

 

[KenJ]

Now, decades later I see it hasn't been so easy, I've messed up plenty of times, sometimes wilfully so, not by mere chance or circumstance. I'm not able to judge how well I've done so far. But on the other hand I think most of us can be our own sternest critic at times, perhaps I can't see clearly while in the midst of things

Hopefully you will reach a time to reflect on that and see more clearly, and be able to forgive yourself. It gives me pleasure that something inside of me showed me the direction of the 'high road' on many important points in my life. I'm not sure where the 'understanding-voice' cames from, but it certainly made the choices easier.

 

[Speedwell]

Hopefully you will reach a time to reflect on that and see more clearly, and be able to forgive yourself. It gives me pleasure that something inside of me showed me the direction of the 'high road' on many important points in my life. I'm not sure where the 'understanding-voice' came from, but it certainly made the choices easier.

Thanks for your perspective Ken.

As for forgiving myself, to some extent I have, but that doesn't erase what happened. How I reached forgiveness in one instance at least, is a story in itself. There was one afternoon when I'd reached a very relaxed almost meditative state and was reflecting on some of the issues I'd had with someone who is no longer alive. From somewhere I started to receive replies, like a conversation. Every time I recalled some grave harm I may have done, the other person just replied in such a way that I couldn't help but smile. I spent perhaps an hour or two engaged in this reminiscence, much of the time with a beaming smile on my face or even laughing out loud. That I could dwell on such harm and pain in this carefree manner seemed only possible because I was in a shared exchange with the deceased.

This hasn't been repeated, that type of contact was pretty much a one-off, but it has left me feeling much lighter about some of these things.

As for "something inside of me showed me the direction of the 'high road' on many important points in my life", that is something I learned slowly to trust. There was one particular tangle I got myself into, and I sought advice and guidance from some trusted friends. I made the mistake of perhaps turning their advice in a particular way and following it, while in the background I had my own inner guidance telling me to do something different. When that all turned into a mess causing distress to other people as well as myself, I at last learned to listen to and trust my inner guidance.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi All,

First, I apologize for giving anyone the impression that I was accusing them of being PC. As noted above, I don't think there is a lot of PC on this board, thankfully. Second, Alex, I thought you were talking about some type of more recent "scientific" based eugenics--not the old fashioned Sanger-Hitler variety. (BTW--I don't approve of the former any more than the latter). Third, Jim, I think you're wrong about Ritter lacking a warrior's mentality in not acting in a tactical manner to preserve his position on the board. You're talking about politics, not war. Collins was a politician as well as a fighter, and this seems to be deeply ingrained in you. However, Patton (a born warrior and great tactician) was terrible at politics and was always getting himself into trouble and adversely affected his career because of things he said and did off the battle field that did not sit well with superiors, press, politicians, etc. So, I will continue to accept Ritter as being who he says he was. Fourth, you're right that Ritter believes the things you accuse him of believing. Yet, based on my conversations with him, he also has a job, a family that he loves, and (I believe) would stop by the road to help a neighbor with a flat tire (though maybe not one who looked like an immigrant). If there is any other point you made that I should address, let me know.

However, I'd rather address an initial elephant in the room: the tendency of people to be swallowed by their Ideology and lose their humanity in the process. There is a Japanese proverb I heard once that really impressed me. It speaks to many situations, and you'll have to excuse my "pidgin" Japanese delivery (that is the way I heard it): First man drink sake, then sake drink sake, then sake drink man. First we find something to believe in, then our belief drives us to go deeper and deeper in terms of knowledge and commitment, and finally there comes a place where we no longer have any objective distance. We have replaced reason and the ability to be reasonable with our ideology, which we think is reasonable, but replaces reason and often enough humanity. In the end sake drinks man, the ideology controls and we will do and think whatever we believe it demands. There goes Ritter, there goes Daesh, there goes Antifa, there goes . . . and there--strangely enough--also go many people who might have started out with an ideology far more benign that theirs, including the churchman who ends up burning heretics. Perhaps there are even some devoted to "Republican" values (and I don't mean that in the U.S. sense of the word) who have stumbled into this trap.

The other elephant in the room seems equally controversial: what to make of Patton and the idea of the Warrior type who pursues this vocation devotedly and without repentance. There have definitely been some good things said on that point, but I am out of time. So, I will have to leave further comment for another occasion.

Cordially,
S&S

 

[John Tat]

Nazi Germany came about through a set of political beliefs that turned into an ideology...To believe Ritter or anyone else on this board is still a Nazi because of a previous incarnation of there spiritual selves/soul are delusional... To believe that you would have to believe your spiritual self/soul is a Nazi.. So who is the physical entity Ritter?.. Is he a fake..Is he delusional.. or is he a person who believes the Nazis were right.. Whatever/Whoever he is he is not a reflection of who his spiritual self is.. BB my spiritual self is connected to his gods.. not an ideology

 

[landsend]

@SeaAndSky Great post and thanks for the Japanese proverb. I’ve never heard that before but it’s a brilliant analogy for self destructive tendencies.

 

[Speedwell]

Nazi Germany came about through a set of political beliefs that turned into an ideology...To believe Ritter or anyone else on this board is still a Nazi because of a previous incarnation of there spiritual selves/soul are delusional... To believe that you would have to believe your spiritual self/soul is a Nazi.. So who is the physical entity Ritter?.. Is he a fake..Is he delusional.. or is he a person who believes the Nazis were right.. Whatever/Whoever he is he is not a reflection of who his spiritual self is.. BB my spiritual self is connected to his gods.. not an ideology

Interesting thoughts.

But doesn't this probe right into the heart of the nature of reincarnation? Many of us here have found to a greater or lesser extent, our ideas and beliefs as well as personality in the current incarnation can correspond very strongly with our selves in one or more previous lifetimes.

Perhaps if we want to speak in elevated terms of our spiritual selves, we need to first awaken from this dream which is earth life, this is not something which occurs to the same extent in each person.

On a personal level, one of the biggest frustrations I had in my younger days was when I first began to see the light, I wanted to encourage everyone around me to wake up too - with no ideology or attachment to any particular faith, I felt like some sort of preacher, trying to reach out to people. But the fact is (in my experience), people wake up when they are ready, not before.

 

[landsend]

Speedwell, I don't know of your experiences, but it's been my experience that you don't only awaken once, but many times during a lifetime. And looking back you think 'Holy cow, how could I not see THAT before?'

That was pretty much my experience after realising the reality of my life as Terry. Prior to him, past lives were an interesting belief. After him, past lives were a reality. I still am 'awakening' and I wonder if I ever will stop awakening. Maybe that's the original meaning of 'enlightenment'. Perhaps being enlightened simply means being able to see things clearly, i.e from all angles, rather than a one-sided narrow perspective.