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Multiple claimants to the one life.

John Tat said:
I just read this thread again... very interesting stuff...it reflects the differences between who my spiritual self is and what is talked about in this thread.. From who my spiritual self is.,. my perspective is .. I'm not sure how you can have many prior incarnations then draw a line at one particular incarnation and then claim this is who I am.. This is very confusing to me because BB my spiritual self has never and never will see himself as any physical entity he has occupied ..He is himself BB.. a separate spiritual entity not John Tat or any other physical entity he has occupied ..They have all died and will never return...
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I never defined myself through my past incarnations. Frankly, I'm not at all proud of two of my more prominent ones. They had their own problems, some of which I'm still trying to work out, but they're not who I am right now. Their personalities were vastly different than mine, but they're a part of me and I can still relate to them. It's like how you're a different person now than when you were six.

In the present, we have centuries of experience and knowledge within us, even if we don't realize it or use it to its full potential, like Ken mentioned. Some things just aren't in my wheelhouse of skills anymore; like hunting with a bow and arrow. I tried to fire an arrow once in this life and completely flubbed it in front of my classmates lol. My hands remembered what to do, but all the expertise and finesse had gone out the window.

I like the Buddhist method of peace. It's really attainable, if nothing else. I don't know what the future holds, but it'll be a fun time trying to get there.
 
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If you read or have read through this thread it raises the question is any one incarnation of our spiritual selves/soul/higher self more important than the others to him ?
 
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For me, they are all important for different reasons. The one where I was a female shook me to my foundation. The one that I saw levitating the monolith that was more than 1,200 years ago. And yet another that was millions of years ago seeing two suns in the sky.
 
KenJ said:
John, nobody is saying that the same personality returns. They (and I) are talking about aspects or small parts of their soil's energy just as you, like all of us, have most of your soul on the other-side where it exists "for thousands of appearances in the physical" by giving each new body a piece (aspect or personality). BB is an aspect like John or Ken or S&S, but John (you) and BB are aspects of the same Soul, S&S and I have different soul energies that we are part of, part of the soil's energy we were given at birth.
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For me it took me years to accept somewhat who I was in a past life, perhaps too because my own identity was only mine, I could not think I had been her. In later years I was pale when realizing we had the same giggles and laughs, same movement with the hands, same jumpiness when being filmed being just her, in private. I have the same ways of showing effection, same handwriting, but in other ways I have become a different person.
 
A "famous" person doesn't even have to be influential, fame itself only means that their name has made it into the books for what reason ever. Some names you only find because these people were born into or married to a "famous" family. Others were lucky (?) enough to get the credit or blame for something they have done. Or even haven't done. It's all about what has been written and got stuck into people's heads.

While others have been forgotten. Some of the greatest minds and most influential people of all times are forgotten.
Like the first person in their tribe who learned to make fire. The first person in their surroundings who used symbols to write down the spoken word. Someone unknown who inspired someone who then took the idea, passed it on to someone who had the means to turn it into a helpful new idea/tool/invention/what ever. OR started a war.

"Person", by the way, derives from the Latin word for mask. A persona was the mask actors were wearing and through which the voice of the actor sounded (personare - to sound through).

Sorry, but just has to throw in this half a cent. Has been going around in my head for awhile.

As for others "claiming" my life... I call myself lucky that it is extremely unlikely that this ever will happen to me. Must feel strange... even more so, when the other "claimant" comes across as an authentic individual and even has validated memories.
 
SeekerOfKnowledge said:
As for others "claiming" my life... I call myself lucky that it is extremely unlikely that this ever will happen to me.
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Yeah, this is a fun idea (hope I understand what you're saying).

So, in the near future I'll be reborn and one day I'll come across someone who claims to have been the incredibly legendary late Fireflydancing from the beginning of the 21st century.
How would I react??

Well, I would laugh loudly and return doing my own business, probably doing some artwork or gardening.
 
Yeah Seeker. Many influential people have been forgotten throughout history, particularly before written records were kept.

It good yourself and Firefly would laugh at someone claiming your lives. That's a good character trait...yet does that mean that my character trait is bad? I get utterly incensed and offended by someone claim one of my lives. I've been through hell because of how my mind/soul works. I reaped what I have sown. My militaristic mindset is a great burden to me yet in many regards that doesn't change the impulse I feel to utterly destroy and humiliate someone who claims my lives.

My thinking is humanistic by nature. One must own their own crap like a man. The very notion that anyone would attempt to claim my very soul is an affront to my entire being and in many cases they have romanticised what they claim. Romanticism isn't truth IMO. Its nonsense and I can't abide nonsense encroaching on my very being. I'll have no truck with that thus I feel I must defend my position against other claimants. Is that wrong?

I don't take another claimant to a past life seriously, they are usually comical in what they think was going on, but I do take their insistence that they were that person seriously because, from my perspective, they have thrown down the gauntlet to me and I must defend my honour in spite of the horrors I have partaken in. Its just in my soul.
 
Hi Tanker. I have tried to converse with other claimants to my soul. They don't converse and in one instance justified ones need to confront as proof positive they aren't who they claim to be. How so? Surely a PL soldier is compelled to confront when evasion isn't the most prudent course of action?
 
Jim78 said:
does that mean that my character trait is bad?
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Hey Jim, I don't think the word 'bad' is the correct word. I would rather compare our situations to managing our personal control-boards (like a pilot in an airplane). We've got to adjust our courses/actions according to the weather circumstances, our destinations and the cargo we are flying. It's about fine-tuning all along the journey. If you just fly on auto-pilot no matter what changing circumstances, in the best-case scenario you'll fly a bumpy flight, in the worst case you'll crash.

Maybe you are also too harsh for yourself. With your tumultuous memories of past lives, you probably need so much more time to process all that recent extra knowledge. Maybe it's not about character traits but about needing more time to find peace within yourself.
 
Jim, there was a misunderstanding.
I would laugh if someone in the future would "claim" my *current* life, because the mere thought that anybody would have false memories of having been me of all people is so absurd...

Not sure about how I would react if anybody "claimed" one of my PLs. How I would feel about it. Very unlikely that will ever happen anyway. For different reasons.
 
I can share a little of the frustration I can imagine one can feel when someone else claims to be your past life self, it has not happened to me, but perhaps nobody would have wanted to be past life me, I don't know, maybe it is not such an attractive thought... Anyhow, the little frustration I can recognize myself in is when there is about 3 people these days, 2 anonymous and 1 also an actor of the today who claim they have been the actor James Dean (1931-55). It is frustrating because the 2 I have read about, that won't come forward, do not share any detailed past life memories. This make it hard for me in return to see if any of them are the real deal here. Also because there is so much focus on their present situation that they claim is then part of their proof that they have been James dean: is then a complicated father-son-relationship, common interests in car racing, one being homosexual (there are those who believe he was heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual). The other one, an actor, has also never shared detailed information or any information for that matter, so far that I have come across anyway, so so far it is only a statement and that's it. So there really isn't any dept there that will give me a chance to figure out what could confirm or not my own detailed memories of him.

Of course, not to be mean or anything (or..?) I can't help but wonder the reason why none of them give detailed information is because they are unsure themselves, at least to some degree, that they were not who they claimed to have been...

I have felt much frustration once when someone got past life me way wrong but then, perhaps sadly, I got so used to it already in my past life, to people having their own agenda to why they wanted to twist me into looking, being a certain way that I was not and I had to in some cases try to prove them wrong. I am not claiming I was some angel and I understand that it can be hard to dig up the truth, but still I think some make it too easy for themselves and don't do enough research before they happily claim this or that... much horseshit, that is...then again there aren't exactly many serious reporters in that environment we were in.

/Jaimie
 
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Hi Firefly, Seeker and Jaime.

I certainly change with the circumstances. I have posted on here many examples of commonalities and 'coincidences', handwriting, birthmarks and such about my past lives but the bulk of my writings has been on how I feel about who I have been and how it all impacts me currently.

Yet I want to confront other claimants to my lives to also challenge myself. I have been on this site for over two years and the only member who directly questioned me on my memories was Deborah in the 'What is a King' topic of mine.

I had been talking about my memories in detail, but it was a describing of instances, events and how I felt about them. I had confirmed already style of dress, buildings and such to validate what I had remembered as being historically accurate but Deborah's questioning took me away from a subjective description of my memories and into a more objective, scholarly approach. This gave me many more validations as to the accuracy of my medieval memories. Unfortunately no one threw up more questions in that topic so my journey down the rabbit hole stopped.

This is why I want to confront and destroy other claimants. Because conversing with them will most likely throw up more validations of my own memories. While I intend to make it unproductive for them it would be very productive for me. I enjoy being challenged.

Believe you me, after studying scholarly papers on Brian Boru and his time I was shocked by the level of detail that was confirmed. Many I didn't even post in that topic. This was all because someone questioned my memories.

I'd invite more questions happily and at the same time cut a swathe through the BS of my 'glorious' past.

Isn't that also the intention of this site Firefly? To examine ones memories objectively in an attempt to confirm their validity and to add more weight to reincarnation studies as a whole?
 
Jim78 said:
Hi Firefly, Seeker and Jaime.

I certainly change with the circumstances. I have posted on here many examples of commonalities and 'coincidences', handwriting, birthmarks and such about my past lives but the bulk of my writings has been on how I feel about who I have been and how it all impacts me currently.

Yet I want to confront other claimants to my lives to also challenge myself. I have been on this site for over two years and the only member who directly questioned me on my memories was Deborah in the 'What is a King' topic of mine.

I had been talking about my memories in detail, but it was a describing of instances, events and how I felt about them. I had confirmed already style of dress, buildings and such to validate what I had remembered as being historically accurate but Deborah's questioning took me away from a subjective description of my memories and into a more objective, scholarly approach. This gave me many more validations as to the accuracy of my medieval memories. Unfortunately no one threw up more questions in that topic so my journey down the rabbit hole stopped.

This is why I want to confront and destroy other claimants. Because conversing with them will most likely throw up more validations of my own memories. While I intend to make it unproductive for them it would be very productive for me. I enjoy being challenged.

Believe you me, after studying scholarly papers on Brian Boru and his time I was shocked by the level of detail that was confirmed. Many I didn't even post in that topic. This was all because someone questioned my memories.

I'd invite more questions happily and at the same time cut a swathe through the BS of my 'glorious' past.

Isn't that also the intention of this site Firefly? To examine ones memories objectively in an attempt to confirm their validity and to add more weight to reincarnation studies as a whole?
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Hi Jim,
do you feel like me that some, in your case of those you have challenged, lack detailed memories or how is it ?
If I understand you right the way it works with you is that when you come in battle mode, some sort of stress, activity, you get more memories? this is interesting. I have noticed for me I have to either be really relaxed or I have to be "stirred up" (battle mode for me, that is...) to get memories, never anything in between. To me it is interesting because all I think I have ever read about is that the memories come when one is deeply relaxed, now someone else is saying it can be the opposite too :)
/Jaimie
 
This actually happened to me as well. I saw someone on Pinterest claiming to be me (my past life) from titanic yet she had no other evidence really of how he is her past life as well while I have. I’ve done so much research on him now and have had dreams of my past life’s end. It’s kind of upsetting she’s claiming that but I just ignore it now because I know I’m my heart who I was.
 
Jim78 said:
Isn't that also the intention of this site Firefly? To examine ones memories objectively in an attempt to confirm their validity and to add more weight to reincarnation studies as a whole?
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Yep, for some of us, this works that way and for others, it's less important. I usually spend an awful lot of time doing my own research on seemingly small details.
 
Hi Jaime and Bailey.

Jaime I've found that every other claimants to my past lives lack detailed memories although a couple of them were extremely knowledgeable of the historical periods. More knowledgeable than me in the scholarly sense.

Yet even in these instances of knowledgeable claimants what does that really prove? Knowledge doesn't equal detail.

I could study such things as the locations of the battles I remember or the workings of weaponry and such, things that I have seen with those claimants that some other reincarnationists find almost validating yet what does that really prove? To my mind its that they've researched the period. It proves nothing. Aside from pointing to many many details that prove that my memories are accurate despite my being ignorant of the period is that really what the 'strong case' claimants are doing? To me they are just describing the historical record. Where I stand and those 'strong' claims fall is in the psychology of who I was...my feelings, thoughts, motivations, intentions and goals behind the historic record. When all other claimants, even the stronger claims, describe such things they are only in the shallowest, romanticised sense of the actual examination of a claim. They subscribe more simplistic things to their past life claims than they actually describe when talking about their current lives psychology. The humanity of their supposed memories are absent.

That's just my take on it anyway.

Hi Bailey. Unfortunately I haven't reached your level of acceptance yet and maybe I never will. We could be birds of a different feather.
 
Yea Tanker. I too would be fascinated, but not by what they say about my past life, but because I could shoot down their nonsense. Its like target practise to me.

I research small details too Firefly, such as if a certain persons hair was the colour it was that I remember, but Deborah challenging me threw up more details that I didn't know I could confirm, such as the probable season of the year, the relation of clothing colour to hierarchial structures or the probable root of the alteration to the historic record and so on. My research on memories without questioning was of a more personal nature relating to those I knew, not the wider picture of the society I was living in at the time. Its like I thought I had all the validations I could get but Deborah opened me up to the iceberg below the surface so to speak whereas before I was just looking at the iceberg above water.

I think that's the beauty of having another set of eyes reading your memories.
 
Yea Tanker, I hear you. I guess its just my temperament. I'm pretty blunt.

I doubt you would find a claimant who would be willing to accept you were the real deal however. Some are attention seekers and quickly dispensed with but others have built their whole online persona, and even their real lives, on being who they think they were. Such people don't like to be seen as being wrong, their image would crumble.

Those people would see your gentle probing and my direct approach as being equally a personal attack. No one wants their Glass castle shattered.
 
So far I haven't met anybody who claimed the same past life like me (my WWII life wasn't famous, but it wasn't completely unknown either. It's more like it was more known to a certain nation than to others). But the fact I haven't met a person who believes to have the same PL like me, doesn't mean there's no such person somewhere in the world.
When we talk about memories, that's something only we could see when we had the meditation/dream/regression. Nobody can put an "approval stamp" on these after we post them publicly. We have to assume that people are honest and they don't make up things because they go through a mid-life crisis or whatever. And I can imagine a situation where the person with the claimed past life tells the truth, but she/he only recalled some short or blurry scenes so far. Then comes the "impostor" and showers the reincarnation community with high detailed looking "memories" she/he just put together cleverly and disguises them as real memories. Then who will win the battle? The real one with tiny memories or the fake one with the more fancy, but totally fake scenes? It's sad when it turns into a competition, because it's really not about it at all. But it can be really demotivational, because all the hard work put into the research, all the emotions that came up through the journey gets ridiculed and invalid by a person no more than a swindler.
 
Scavenger said:
So far I haven't met anybody who claimed the same past life like me (my WWII life wasn't famous, but it wasn't completely unknown either. It's more like it was more known to a certain nation than to others). But the fact I haven't met a person who believes to have the same PL like me, doesn't mean there's no such person somewhere in the world.
When we talk about memories, that's something only we could see when we had the meditation/dream/regression. Nobody can put an "approval stamp" on these after we post them publicly. We have to assume that people are honest and they don't make up things because they go through a mid-life crisis or whatever. And I can imagine a situation where the person with the claimed past life tells the truth, but she/he only recalled some short or blurry scenes so far. Then comes the "impostor" and showers the reincarnation community with high detailed looking "memories" she/he just put together cleverly and disguises them as real memories. Then who will win the battle? The real one with tiny memories or the fake one with the more fancy, but totally fake scenes? It's sad when it turns into a competition, because it's really not about it at all. But it can be really demotivational, because all the hard work put into the research, all the emotions that came up through the journey gets ridiculed and invalid by a person no more than a swindler.
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It's not easy, it is close to impossible or impossible for others to decide sometimes, I can agree with that. But what I personally do not like is the total lack of details, perhaps out of fear that the other people still alive who remembers this person will then come forward and say no, that did not happen etc. That there is nothing there, you know, but thin air, just a way to get attention to yourself, then that isn't right not to themselves and not to the person they think they were and not to the people who knew this person either.

Of course it could be that they do think they are this person but without the memories, without any kind of details they could very well have been someone else, then one should perhaps be more careful and say it fits a bit into my profile but I am not sure yet.

I suppose my own desire to get at least one of them, in my case, to say something is to be able to compare if what I remember happening was true, I am searching for this soulmate because one just wants to know this soulmate is OK (old worries), so I can close the door, give my pl self that peace.

Many years back I was really fighting the idea that I was somebody who a period in her life worked in show business. My friend, who was naturally gifted, later said she recognized me right away, like seeing a ghost, she said. She knew who she had been. We had been friends in that life. She never knew I had memories of my own until I told her. That was when she decided to come forward, to share with me her own memories. Because we had double dated in that past life she remembered the man my past life was with, details about him, things she could not have known, also little things. I had one memory of the place where we once double dated (in NY city) and she remembered the same place and we were both describing the same interior decorating of the place. Now looking back at this it was one of a kind experience for me, valuable. I remember I told her to please write down what she remembered about me, us. This was before the Internet. I went to the US, libraries, to try to find proof. I was so cut in myself at the time because I really did not want to be her, but at the same time I had this strong feeling in me that I needed peace, I needed to give her (almost as if she was a ghost inside me) peace to know her family was OK. She had not died a natural death, she was just torn away from her life in an instant. I found some proof that time, but it would take yet other years before I was able to find out more that were accurate with what my friend had experienced. There have been things I have found proof of (proof to me and my friend that is) that I never ever thought I would find.

But I think overall we work differently. Some jump straight away to the chapter where they need to heal themselves and in order to heal themselves they jump to the conclusion that this is who they were and that is what happened, without any proof. Others need assurance to know if that was truly past life memories and then they try to heal.But what if it is fake memories and then you can't heal about what is really bothering you ? I was one of those who thought I was just gonna find the proof and then I completely forgot about doing any of the healing process because I have been so busy with that in itself ; )

/Jaimie
 
Perhaps it would be a sad thing to ruin someone's image but I think its even sadder to humour a delusion Tanker. Much better to be honest IMO.

Although I haven't engaged with someone claiming one of my past lives directly I have found flaws in people claiming other lives but I find they either retreat or take swipes at my own claims ( no smoking guns just veiled insults ). In my experience people who are delusional tend to remain delusional spite the fallacy in their claim and others pointing it out.

I think its entirely possible to put a stamp of sorts on a claim Scavenger. One wouldn't go so far as saying it was incontrovertibly true but , as Dr Ian Stevenson did, one can say that the most likely possibility is reincarnation.

When one is dealing with a knowledgeable imposter versus a true claimant with blurry memories I'd like to think the blurrier minded would win through. They, after all, are the real deal. One would be witness to someone with historical ignorance confirming and contradicting detail based on memories not simply have constructed a fantasy life based on recorded knowledge. They may not be able to name the battle but they would be able to describe the intent and outcomes behind the tactics because they remember that portion of what they were doing. That's involved detail not merely a hagiography like a knowledgeable false claimant would have. The true claimant saying "I do not remember that time in that life" would not dismiss his claim but a false claiment not being able to convey true nuance of thought and emotion would look very shaky to me.

Hi Jaime. I've found when some claimants lack in detail they are describing compartmentalised claims. Coincidences or birthmarks, psychics or feelings. Many claims seem to lack descriptive and contextualised memories. Also those that do describe character describe so without context. Much like the shallow characterisation of second rate fiction writers as to the actual nuance of character and flaws that a present in a real person. Not every false claim writes like Shakespeare you know? A true claim would have the essence of a lived life and very few authors, the top tier being most prevalent obviously, can create the richness of character of a life lived.

I'm only starting to heal this year after six years in the reincarnation wilderness. Some people just examine their memories, integrate it into themselves so that it can be felt ( after the denial phase ) and then arrive at a point of healing. PL memories are a process. Many don't stick with it and those that do become wiser people. The false claimant, however, are unchanging IMO.
 
For me, it just doesn't feel right to "claim" something only to find out later that I was wrong. Not so much a problem when I can be sure that a memory has zero connection to any "famous" person or event. "Famous" events are not a problem when they affected millions, like the plague.
I might have drawn the wrong conclusions already. Or maybe not. Good thing I never "claimed" anything... but I shared memories which lead others to believe they have something in common with me which might or might not be true (nothing "famous" here, just seemed to remember having fought in a war).
By now I am even very reluctant to share anything only remotely connected to either a "famous" person or an event others remember. I don't want to be an imposter... and I already feel like one.
I often wish to talk (and confess rather than claim) but can't, because I have trouble to believe in myself and I fear I will have to admit that ALL my memories are fake and that I am just crazy. That, and even worse, I fear I might mislead others into believing what turns out to be no more than my personal delusion.
AND I have an irrational fear that others may have to pay the price when I say or do something I should not. That very bad things will happen when I talk too much, to my granddaughter or to my cat.

EDIT: Feels relieving that I have been able to phrase that.
 
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Hi Tanker. I don't particularly consider their feelings no more than a surgeon would consider hurting an unconscious man as he cuts.

No. Its not often that one runs across flaws but it's bound to happen to every other claimant of my pls IMO.

Hi Seeker. I really don't understand doubt about my own memories any more. I possess many of the same attributes as I've experienced with my PL memories. I can see a continuation of my soul expressing itself in the world in all of my memories, past and present. There are differences too but even they indicate growth.

Perhaps because you are so hesitant about opening up about your pl memories you haven't properly integrated them?

I don't fear I will mislead others because this is MY journey. I'm just discovering more and more about myself. My initial reincarnation experience was very personal to me. Accidentally misleading others wasn't even a part of the equation because I was dealing with it alone.

Your memories are yours. All you need to do is explore them.
 
Personally, I crave to be understood. Not by masses or anything, just the people who are around me. I wish very much that I could present myself in a way that would make them understand me, why I do what I do and am how I am, because from misunderstandings, comes great misfortune sometimes. Sometimes it severes connections, friendships end over misundestandings, and sometimes the results could even be fatal.

So, it's obvious I am sensitive when it comes to being misunderstood and misrepresented. I have reacted strongly, at least internally, when people I know have misrepresented me and told lies about me in this lifetime. It only makes sense to me that I would react the same if someone claimed my past life. I would hate people spreading lies about me. Especially if I did what I did in that past life to leave some kind of a legacy to people who were born after me, and then some people claimed to be me, spreading lies, resulting to that legacy being forgotten. I would hate to be made a symbol of something I'm not and was not because of other claimants to my life or incompetent historians. So, if a famous past life of mine was misrepresented and that misrepresentation was widely believed, then I would feel a pull to correct these lies and be understood by the world, because who would want to see their life's work go to waste?

However, I would not feel this pull so strongly that I would actually attempt to go for correcting these things, at least not in large scale, because the people who would be attacking me wouldn't know they were attacking me, they wouldn't know my current unknown existence, so, it wouldn't feel so urgent to me. Nobody would be threatening my life. If someone found out I was me, then I would certainly feel very attacked and unsafe. Because in a way, in this life I would get to choose, to an extend, what things that were said about me, I cared about. I could choose which battles to fight. No one would be banging at my door, forcing me to speak for myself.

So, yes, I would care very much if people claimed to be me or spread lies about me, but I would also get over it enough to not let it ruin my day in my peaceful current life.
 
In the end, who I was has no bearing on who I am now. One life has so much myth attached to it, much of it created long after she died...the person who existed would have loved the immortality and design of it, even the bad parts of the myth because the myth feeds into her vanity far better then the truth.

I know of several who claim to be a couple of my PLs, and they are welcome to it. In one I have a perverse sense of satisfaction that they wanted to be that person because of remnants of feelings from that life while also being utterly and completely horrified that I have her parts in my soul. Another...I know the woman who claims it, and I see no reason to correct it: she does good work, and while wrong on much of the recall, lives up to the ideal of the person. I am afraid of doing what she does, because I know it is not all good underneath and I no longer need or want those shadows in my life. I am happy enough to let her have them. It also mimics, in a way, the real life of the person and another, and the credit was not that important to me then and it's less so now.

I spent a lot of time denying I had one of my PLs after working with someone of the culture that "tested" as far as they could what came out in meditation. It took me almost 20 years, and ignoring many memories, before I accepted I was anyone, famous or not.
 
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