A numbers question to ponder...I am sure it has been asked before...

[dadztired]

I have a question that I am sure has been pondered prior to this post, one that my daughter asked me not so very long ago...
We were watching a program on Discovery Channel one night and there was that statement "there are more people alive on Earth today than existed in all the previous eons before, combined." If this is true, is it also true that there are first timers? Those that have not lived previous lives, reincarnation newbies, as it were?
If there are more living people now than at any time prior, this has to be case, right?
I don't know and haven't taken into account other life forms on the planet, and don't really know how those enter into the equation...any help with this one...
My daughter is 12 and has challenging questions about everything...
We (my wife and I) had been having a fun little discussion about previous lives the evening before, and my daughter was in the living room doing her homework, but obviously listening...
She never ceases to amaze me with what she comes up with to stump the old man.
Thanks for your thoughts in advance.
Dad

 

[Ghost of Gumby]

There is always the possibility of new souls, and old souls returning en-masse. I think that there are more souls from all ages being reincarnated now. Over the past ages of human history there have been many souls inhabiting the earth, if you total the population all ages . The increasing population of our present age probably requires that most of these souls of past ages now incarnate, and new souls may arrive here in our time continually. But there may be an entire of reservoir of souls or proto-souls available, it could be, in fact, an inexhaustible resource. There seems to be no limitations, what would inhibit the creation of souls? Who knows, perhaps a soul can be copied, we all know about the saying that for every person, somewhere there is a double.

 

[Nightrain]

Although we don't like to discuss animal reincarnation, nor life on other planets, because it can sometimes open the flood gates for a lot of nonsense fantasy; I think it is reasonable to theorize that reincarnation is not exclusive only to Humans here on this lonely planet. When it comes to speculating where all the souls come from, I think that we should expand our awareness beyond our present confines and allow for an inexhaustible supply of souls, not only from this dimension of our existence, but even from among the many others that are presently being considered by quantum physicists.

 

[deborah]

The population debate. A great informational thread.

 

[Sunniva]

I personally like to believe that reincarnation basically is a product of the human mind. The human mind has created the concept, but that doesn't mean it isn't real. The human mind is strong and can make things happen. People have gotten healed through prayers - not because God healed them, but because they wanted it so badly. The mind can create a state of consciousness where we are not able to experience pain or fear, where we get extra strength to survive a life threatening situation. The human mind is so very powerful and I believe 100% that if we are to understand the mechanisms of reincarnation we should closely follow the studies in human psychology, and brain and consciousness studies. But that is just me. I'm very scientifically grounded and while I know that reincarnation happens, I'm not satisfied by any of the spiritualist explanations since I think they pose more questions than they answer (e.g. the soul reincarnates, but what is the soul?)


But I digress.


My point is that I think the answer to your question is yes, there are 'new souls' (or new consciousnesses) among us. Reincarnation did not exist before the human mind, in my humble opinion.

 

[usetawuz]

My point is that I think the answer to your question is yes, there are 'new souls' (or new consciousnesses) among us. Reincarnation did not exist before the human mind, in my humble opinion.

Hmmm. Are you saying that a soul or a consciousness could not live in a sequence of bodies until the initial human mind was formed? And since the human mind exists to conceive of it, it can now occur? I seem to put more faith in the soul or consciousness than I do in the human mind.

 

[Sunniva]

Are you saying that a soul or a consciousness could not live in a sequence of bodies until the initial human mind was formed? And since the human mind exists to conceive of it, it can now occur?

Yes, that is what I'm saying That is my personal belief. The logical consequence will also be that as humanity cease to exist, so will reincarnation.

I seem to put more faith in the soul or consciousness than I do in the human mind.

I believe in the metaphorical sense of 'the soul', but I don't believe it actually exists. I know that's a controversial thing to say, but to me it seems much more logical that if anything transcends the physical body it would have to be the mind or the consciousness.


I know most people look at reincarnation from a highly spiritualistic point of view and I respect that. But at the same time reincarnation poses practical and logistical questions, such as the one above, and I personally don't feel that spiritualism hold satisfactory answers them.

 

[usetawuz]

The logical consequence will also be that as humanity cease to exist, so will reincarnation.

I can see that point...no humans, no reincarnation...however it is my belief that there will be other lifeforms which will develop the ability to carry a consciousness, or soul.

...to me it seems much more logical that if anything transcends the physical body it would have to be the mind or the consciousness.

I believe that consciousness transcends all...that it is the soul, the individuated energy that animates us. Is it that which you are calling the human mind?

I know most people look at reincarnation from a highly spiritualistic point of view and I respect that. But at the same time reincarnation poses practical and logistical questions, such as the one above, and I personally don't feel that spiritualism hold satisfactory answers them.

I understand...and respect that.

 

[Ghost of Gumby]

I personally like to believe that reincarnation basically is a product of the human mind. The human mind has created the concept, but that doesn't mean it isn't real. The human mind is strong and can make things happen. People have gotten healed through prayers - not because God healed them, but because they wanted it so badly. The mind can create a state of consciousness where we are not able to experience pain or fear, where we get extra strength to survive a life threatening situation. The human mind is so very powerful and I believe 100% that if we are to understand the mechanisms of reincarnation we should closely follow the studies in human psychology, and brain and consciousness studies.

The human mind is a marvelous place, but how did it get this way? From an evolutionary standpoint we are a product of many lower species, so when and how did we develop these mental abilities? Are such abilities possible through the evolutionary process alone? or is there some other process at work?

 

[Sunniva]

I believe that consciousness transcends all...that it is the soul, the individuated energy that animates us. Is it that which you are calling the human mind?

Yes, I think so The mind or the consciousness, it all comes from the brain imo : angel. The primary reason why I dislike talking of a reincarnating 'soul' is that it holds so many religious connotations that I can't support. I believe in a transcending consciousness as an energy created within the individual person, within the brain. The brain is so powerful and most brain researchers would probably agree that we are nowhere near understanding it 100%.

From an evolutionary standpoint we are a product of many lower species, so when and how did we develop these mental abilities? Are such abilities possible through the evolutionary process alone? or is there some other process at work?

I believe that the development of the human brain is a biological one entirely. The evolution or development has taken place through millions of years and will continue to do so as long as the human being exists.


Archaeologically speaking, the Neanderthals is the first human species to show signs of a more developed mind. They buried their dead and showed them compassion. They had a bigger brain than we do, but whether that means they were smarter than us or perhaps had a more developed 6th sense or something else, we can't tell.


Obviously the early sapiens sapiens (us) had a brain similar to ours. Researchers say that it is the ability to think abstract that makes the difference. The ability to mentally imagine something beyond the physical life and believe in it without having physically seen it (e.g. the Afterlife). That is a unique human trait and possibly the source of us even being able to have this discussion.

 

[Ghost of Gumby]

I believe that the development of the human brain is a biological one entirely. The evolution or development has taken place through millions of years and will continue to do so as long as the human being exists.


Archaeologically speaking, the Neanderthals is the first human species to show signs of a more developed mind. They buried their dead and showed them compassion. They had a bigger brain than we do, but whether that means they were smarter than us or perhaps had a more developed 6th sense or something else, we can't tell.


Obviously the early sapiens sapiens (us) had a brain similar to ours. Researchers say that it is the ability to think abstract that makes the difference. The ability to mentally imagine something beyond the physical life and believe in it without having physically seen it (e.g. the Afterlife). That is a unique human trait and possibly the source of us even being able to have this discussion.

I can understand your perspective of giving such precedence to the power of the human genome, but I don't know if genetics could play such a role in human evolution. I admire the optimistic approach and humanistic ideals which have propagated and propelled such views, however this for me at this time does not give a tenable solution to this mystery. I say mystery because this is exactly what it is, we do not understand these processes. I would like to see scientific breakthroughs in this, and you may be right, the key may be in psychological research of the human mind. But as you point out this higer functioning ability being "a transcending consciousness as an energy created within the individual person" Now I wonder about your use of the term 'created' there as to what you meant by that? Do you mean that we create these conditions within ourselves, and we move towards a progression of expanded cognitive ability totally of our own accord?


If we look at the human brain from strictly an evolutionary standpoint, then we are simply a product of adaptation within the human genome. I can accept that such adaptions to extreme conditions led to an ability to have abstract thought and creativity. But could such adaptations have led to the development of mental powers that are able to transcend the finite nature of our existence? From an evolutionary standpoint, how can we transcend beyond our physical selves? Here it seems to me that we are talking about transcending the self towards some infinite ground of being. Now if the human being is able to transcend through the portals of time into this infinite ground of being, this would be absolutely astounding

 

[usetawuz]

Yes, I think so The mind or the consciousness, it all comes from the brain imo : angel. The primary reason why I dislike talking of a reincarnating 'soul' is that it holds so many religious connotations that I can't support. I believe in a transcending consciousness as an energy created within the individual person, within the brain. The brain is so powerful and most brain researchers would probably agree that we are nowhere near understanding it 100%.

This is where we differ. From my standpoint the brain is a physical mechanism used, together with the rest of the human body, by the consciousness, the soul which animates the human. Without the animation brought by the consciousness, the brain is capable of...what?

 

[Sunniva]

but I don't know if genetics could play such a role in human evolution.

I think this is the core in our friendly disagreement When I look at human evolution, how landscapes have been formed, all these amazing, almost magical things that nature does and have done for billions of year, I don't look for a supernatural force for the cause of it. I think nature is perfectly able to create all these things without "someone" pushing the buttons. But that's a fundamentally different way of looking at the world than most people. I'm not religious. I believe in the power of nature, I believe that we as human beings are much more powerful and capable than we think and I believe that there is so much we don't know about the inner workings of our world. To me reincarnation, ghosts (in a lack of better words), visions and "mind-reading" (again in a lack) happens and are natural occurences that are just not understood. Yet

 

[Iseke]

Sunniva, I totally agree that the things you listed (reincarnation etc.) are natural. I just don't think they are physical. If the physical brain, the part that decays and disintegrates, is responsible for our perception of our experience while we are here, that makes sense. But to say it is responsible for the entire phenomenon of reincarnation (unless we are just assuming it is a belief, which, like our preferences, will presumably die when we do) doesn't make sense, because then it is just, well, a belief and not an objective phenomenon. Do you feel reincarnation is purely subjective? Like how a child has an imaginary friend that is real to them until they stop believing in it? If so, that would make sense to me, although I respectfully disagree.