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Could this be my first incarnation?

TheDivineOne

Should've been born a girl...
I know I've touched on this before in other threads so sorry if i sound or am being repetitive but at the risk of doing just that, i can't help wondering to myself if this was one of my first if not my very first incarnation? How can one even begin to tell if a particular life is that being's first one or not?

It just seems almost everyone here can rather vividly recall their previous lives and even remember events from many lifetimes ago and id their past life egos? Yet i can't. Even the past life visions i did have were pretty much just that — thoughts. I mean, think about it. You remember something, it not only becomes engraved in your mind but it also becomes something of a feeling, a strong belief or some sort. Unfortunately, i don't know a better way to describe it other than that vague description, but at any rate, any thoughts or speculations related to my past life or possibly lack thereof don't have any strong connection that i can relate to. They just feel like speculations, as if still trying to make sense of this current life now.

I just don't want to waste my time and efforts trying to identify my past life and/or who i was if there isn't one to identify.
 
I'm sure you aren't at your first incarnation. To learn about past lives you have to access an altered state of consciousness. I recommend self-hypnosis.

If the prize is valuable enough to you, you take the risk of wasting your time and efforts.
 
Everyone has had thousands and thousands of previous lives. Just as our bodies have evolved over vast periods of time, so have our 'minds' or consciousness, or whatever you want to call it.

Often previous life memories may be a bit hazy, but that's normal. Especially at first. Many of mine were when they first came to me. Sometimes details come later when we learn to trust ourselves more. Follow your intuition. Let the memories come when they want and they will come at the right time. Trust yourself. The truth is always in there somewhere.
 
I just remembered something...

I don't remember actually doing this, per se, but I remember my mom used to tell me I used to call her Jessica (which is not her name) when I was little, and would intimate this as residue from a previous life.

Now I feel silly making this thread. :oops:
 
I just remembered something...

I don't remember actually doing this, per se, but I remember my mom used to tell me I used to call her Jessica (which is not her name) when I was little, and would intimate this as residue from a previous life.

Now I feel silly making this thread. :oops:
Why do you feel Silly? Are you so easy to Convince? Just recalling a mere error of a child calling the mother by another name proves to you that you have reincarnated before? I, personally, have a problem in believing that, some recall their many reincarnations, whether in details or just vaguely, while others don't recall any at All. Where is the logic of it, and for what purpose does it serve for those that claim to recall past lives? I'm trying hard to make sense of it all without any personal proof, since like you, feel I have never reincarnated before, because I cannot recall anything, not even calling my mother by the wrong name, as a child.

Again, even without any mainstream scientific proof for reincarnation, I have come to belive that we have a soul and that the soul is immortal. However this assurance I have derived not from any testimonials of those claiming to recall past lives, but from pure dialectic and philosophical point of view.

Your starting this thread is no mere silly thing, and is well worth discussing further by those that have some wisdom to contribute on this forum; because life without contemplation in not worth Much, whether we are born once, or many times, if not an infinite number of times. For surely, if the soul is immortal, it has been so forever. True being is the place of the soul, and the physical world is of the body. The soul is always in the ever IS and the body dwells in the world of becoming: the world of was and will be, and never is. This is as far as I can agree about reincarnation. It does not matter if and how many times we reincarnate, but it matters how well we live each and every life, whether one or many in reality. And as a very wise man said once, only God Knows! Another wise one also said; what good will it be if a man, or a woman, gain the whole physical world but lose the soul? Obviously without a soul there would not be any more reincarnations, and then where would the fun of living be?
 
Life and death are states of being. They are temporary, existence is not, it is eternal. Existence is the source of cause and effect, not the result of it, so 'creation' - in any form - is a myth.
See: theory-of-reciprocity.com

From plants to microbes to invertebrates and higher species, it is the nature of 'animated' fundamental particles (aka souls) to engage the resources of their immediate environment to re enforce and amplify the attributes of their nature. You have always existed and will continue to do so forever; however, we have little evidence as to the time between life and death cycles. You may have been most recently 'incarnated' just prior to your current DOB or 1x10~999 years ago (yeah, long before the popularly computed 'Big Bang'). In any case, have you ever tried to play a 78RPM record on a DVD player. Yes, the very architecture of your being may be different, making recall (replaying events in your mind's eye) difficult if not impossible.
See: theory-of-reciprocity.com/life.html
 
Life and death are states of being. They are temporary, existence is not, it is eternal. Existence is the source of cause and effect, not the result of it, so 'creation' - in any form - is a myth.
See: theory-of-reciprocity.com

Actually, life and death are not states of "being" but merely states of change/becoming. And I agree that they are temporary. Now, existence, as you state, is eternal...granted! However, creation is not a "myth" otherwise you and I, and the rest of us "creatures" would amount to just puff of smoke, or as you state, a myth, and then we would not be existent in "being", although a myth, technically speaking, is a non entity. We were all created by the one and only creator. We must not interpose creation with birth. We were all created immortals, but created we were, as only the One creator can claim eternal being. But when we were created immortals, then we exist in the eternal realm, along with our creator. If we were speaking of a temporal event, as an allegory, or simile, which we are not, then we have not always existed, having being created at some point in (time), although well before the creator created time and space for his created creatures to pass "time" away.

From plants to microbes to invertebrates and higher species, it is the nature of 'animated' fundamental particles (aka souls) to engage the resources of their immediate environment to re enforce and amplify the attributes of their nature. You have always existed and will continue to do so forever; however, we have little evidence as to the time between life and death cycles. You may have been most recently 'incarnated' just prior to your current DOB or 1x10~999 years ago (yeah, long before the popularly computed 'Big Bang'). In any case, have you ever tried to play a 78RPM record on a DVD player. Yes, the very architecture of your being may be different, making recall (replaying events in your mind's eye) difficult if not impossible.
See: theory-of-reciprocity.com/life.html
Actually I tried a 45 RPM record once, both side A and B, but my DVD player's tray was not big enough, even though I also inserted an old audio-technica pickup (needle). And sometimes I have a nasty tick in my mind's eye and therefore i cannot even play once those events of having reincarnated into a microbe and up the chain, let alone replay. But seriously, it sounds as if you are playing a Meher Baba record, when it comes to reincarnation and I'm assuming that you are stating that the soul reincarnates into all forms of organic and inorganic material alike. Are you? And finally, regarding the big bang of the theoretical physicists, that too, being of the material world, is only one of the infinite number of big bangs that have occurred since the beginning of time. According to Plato, Time, Space, and matter were all created at the same time, so`that if one is to end, they all will end together, as anything that has a beginning will also have a middle, and unfortunately, also an end. That is why when we say that the soul is "immortal" having been created, may also have an end. But that end is depended upon the the creator, as the creator, technically speaking, is the only Being that is truly Eternal, but we are not, if God, the creator, or whatever term we want to address this eternal being by, deems to take away our immortality. And that is by making any one created soul just non-existent, as was our state before we were created. God gives it, and also takes it away, if he chooses to do so.

This is what I tend to believe. But being that I truly know that I'm not the One God, and therefore must be one of the many created souls, I know that much about reality and myself. And that "much" is precisely that, much of nothing, as I only know that God knows, and the rest of us can only have opinions. About reality I mean, when I say that only God knows. In reality, sometimes I wonder if i even exist, to tell the truth, even though, "I think, therefore I am". Descartes gave himself a biased question, as he neglected to reason that perhaps someone else was doing his thinking for him, like God, maybe? I think that Plato's Parmenides dialogue would be interesting for those here that contemplated reincarnation and whether there is only one being pretending to be many, or if there are many pretending to be One. Or as Meher Baba related to us that God is the only reality, and the rest of us are just a bunch of some kind of carrots in his dreams. Which is very interesting and thought provoking idea; God only exists, and he falls asleep forgetting and not knowing that he is not god, and then, after becoming every and each material object in the material world, such as one grain of sand, and so on, wakes up to realize that he is god. And then, again, falling in slumber, repeats this dream over and over, and over again in eternity. And we are just part of his dreams, as he also dreams to be each and every human being too, before waking up. But then, thinking from a dream entity, if I have a mind of my own and dream characters are allowed to express ourselves, I would say that Meher Baba is a god in hell and not in heaven, if this sleeping and waking is all god can do. For sure, to be isolated as being the only one and alone in the seen or unseen universe, is no heaven to me, but hell. Then I would rather be a dream character than be god, if i had a choice. But I suspect, like most of the many, that we are both one and many, and god, if one exists, then he made us many, as one is the loneliest number that could ever be, and two is not much better, as at least we need to be three; father, son, and holy ghost, to make the Christians accept reincarnation.

Again, all kidding aside, we know nothing for sure on this side of existence, and if there is something after life here, perhaps we may know a little something more then. But, perhaps not even in-between lives, if there be such a thing, we may know no more than we do here. And who is to say that, as some claim, we may just be a simulated computer program of sort? Which means that everything we think we know has all being programmed in our minds, and that is all that we can see with our mind's eye. Reality may be stranger than our best fiction, as we know it. Myths may turn out to be reality, and our perception of reality here in this world of senses may just be a myth.
 
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I thought that considering what I'm going through now and wanting to have another earth incarnation after this, that this might be my first life on Earth... and I for one refuse to believe or accept in Christian doctrine that we only have one Earth life and that's it. I want to come back after this life, and i'm here wondering if anyone else here feels the same way i do. There are questions that in this earthly form can never be answered and i've come to accept that. But that will never stop me as i'm going to hold on to my dreams and desires for my immediate next life from now, beyond the minute i've taken my final breath in this life, and until i've taken my first in my next life.
 
I just remembered something...

I don't remember actually doing this, per se, but I remember my mom used to tell me I used to call her Jessica (which is not her name) when I was little, and would intimate this as residue from a previous life.

Now I feel silly making this thread. :oops:

Not silly. A memory. Follow your intuition. Trust yourself.
 
"I want to come back after this life, and i'm here wondering if anyone else here feels the same way i do. There are questions that in this earthly form can never be answered and i've come to accept that. But that will never stop me as i'm going to hold on to my dreams and desires for my immediate next life from now, beyond the minute i've taken my final breath in this life, and until i've taken my first in my next life...

It's a continuum. Deep breath. Perspective. Gulp. :)

 
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And as a very wise man said once, only God Knows! Another wise one also said; what good will it be if a man, or a woman, gain the whole physical world but lose the soul? Obviously without a soul there would not be any more reincarnations, and then where would the fun of living be?

Welcome to the forum Native Son

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?" Matthew 16:26

Seems like you have some stories to share?

Reality may be stranger than our best fiction, as we know it. Myths may turn out to be reality, and our perception of reality here in this world of senses may just be a myth.

Have you come across the idea of Plato's cave before? All very interesting concepts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave
"...Plato has Socrates describe a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall from objects passing in front of a fire behind them, and give names to these shadows. The shadows are the prisoners' reality. Socrates explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall are not reality at all, for he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the manufactured reality that is the shadows seen by the prisoners. The inmates of this place do not even desire to leave their prison; for they know no better life. The prisoners manage to break their bonds one day, and discover that their reality was not what they thought it was..."
 
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Tanguerra,

You seem to put weight in music, as we are stardust, our bodies are, but the golden part is the soul, and a billion years as carbon or other stuff is insignificant and not relative to existence, as there is no amount of time that can express it. Existence is timeless, since time is a created thing. These things cannot be comprehended from the perspective of the material world. Neither can one really understand the allegory of the cave as given by wikipedia, or other similar sources. I'm not even certain that the academic world really understands what Socrates was wanting to tell us. Where is Socrates, or even Plato, when we need them to expound and explain the allegory more than it has already in the dialogue itself? I mean where are the reincarnations of our dynamic duo today? Have they reincarnated since being Socrates and Plato? However, the prisoners are us, in the physical world. The shadows and the cave is our physical universe. We are prisoners of the body, as the "we", in essence, are the souls who incarnate and reincarnate. And those prisoners that refuse to leave the cave are those of little faith, and those who fail to eventually see it, or do not come to reason that the physical world is really an illusion.
 
I don't see myself as a prisoner in a cave, or 'trapped' in my body. I don't see this Earthly life as a trial. I see myself as an entity having this experience now. I think all levels of being are interesting and valuable in their own way. Why would one level of consciousness be an illusion and another not?
 
Why would one level of consciousness be an illusion and another not?

Subconscious experience? How do you think when you sleep at night, the things you experience during a dream sequence you believe is real up until you wake up in the morning?

My other guess is that because we tend to not remember our past lives all that much.
 
........When all of them, both those who show themselves in the sky, and those who
retire from view, had come into being, the Creator addressed them thus:–
’Gods, sons of gods, my works, if I will, are indissoluble. That which is
bound may be dissolved, but only an evil being would dissolve that which is
harmonious and happy. And although you are not immortal you shall not die,
for I will hold you together. Hear me, then:–Three tribes of mortal beings
have still to be created, but if created by me they would be like gods. Do ye
therefore make them; I will implant in them the seed of immortality, and you
shall weave together the mortal and immortal, and provide food for them, and
receive them again in death.’ Thus he spake, and poured the remains of the
elements into the cup in which he had mingled the soul of the universe. They
were no longer pure as before, but diluted; and the mixture he distributed into
souls equal in number to the stars, and assigned each to a star–then having
mounted them, as in a chariot, he showed them the nature of the universe, and
told them of their future birth and human lot. They were to be sown in the
planets, and out of them was to come forth the most religious of animals, which
would hereafter be called man. The souls were to be implanted in bodies, which
were in a perpetual flux, whence, he said, would arise, first, sensation; secondly,
love, which is a mixture of pleasure and pain; thirdly, fear and anger, and the
opposite affections: and if they conquered these, they would live righteously,
but if they were conquered by them, unrighteously. He who lived well would
return to his native star, and would there have a blessed existence
; but, if he
lived ill, he would pass into the nature of a woman, and if he did not then alter
his evil ways, into the likeness of some animal, until the reason which was in
him reasserted her sway over the elements of fire, air, earth, water, which had
engrossed her, and he regained his first and better nature. Having given this
law to his creatures, that he might be guiltless of their future evil, he sowed
them, some in the earth, some in the moon, and some in the other planets; and
he ordered the younger gods to frame human bodies for them and to make the
necessary additions to them, and to avert from them all but self-inflicted evil.......
 
.......And now look again, and see what will naturally follow it’ the prisoners are
released and disabused of their error. At first, when any of them is liberated
and compelled suddenly to stand up and turn his neck round and walk and look
towards the light, he will suffer sharp pains; the glare will distress him, and he
will be unable to see the realities of which in his former state he had seen the
shadows; and then conceive some one saying to him, that what he saw before
was an illusion, but that now, when he is approaching nearer to being and his
eye is turned towards more real existence, he has a clearer vision, -what will be
his reply? And you may further imagine that his instructor is pointing to the
objects as they pass and requiring him to name them, -will he not be perplexed?
Will he not fancy that the shadows which he formerly saw are truer than the
objects which are now shown to him?
Far truer.
And if he is compelled to look straight at the light, will he not have a pain
in his eyes which will make him turn away to take and take in the objects of
vision which he can see, and which he will conceive to be in reality clearer than
the things which are now being shown to him?
True, he now
And suppose once more, that he is reluctantly dragged up a steep and rugged
ascent, and held fast until he’s forced into the presence of the sun himself, is he
not likely to be pained and irritated? When he approaches the light his eyes
will be dazzled, and he will not be able to see anything at all of what are now
called realities.
Not all in a moment, he said.
He will require to grow accustomed to the sight of the upper world. And
first he will see the shadows best, next the reflections of men and other objects
in the water, and then the objects themselves; then he will gaze upon the light
of the moon and the stars and the spangled heaven; and he will see the sky and
the stars by night better than the sun or the light of the sun by day?
Certainly.
Last of he will be able to see the sun, and not mere reflections of him in the
water, but he will see him in his own proper place, and not in another; and he
will contemplate him as he is.
Certainly.
He will then proceed to argue that this is he who gives the season and the
years, and is the guardian of all that is in the visible world, and in a certain
way the cause of all things which he and his fellows have been accustomed to
behold?
Clearly, he said, he would first see the sun and then reason about him.
And when he remembered his old habitation, and the wisdom of the den and
his fellow-prisoners, do you not suppose that he would felicitate himself on the
change, and pity them?
Certainly, he would.
And if they were in the habit of conferring honours among themselves on
those who were quickest to observe the passing shadows and to remark which
of them went before, and which followed after, and which were together; and
who were therefore best able to draw conclusions as to the future, do you think
that he would care for such honours and glories, or envy the possessors of them?
Would he not say with Homer, Better to be the poor servant of a poor master,
and to endure anything, rather than think as they do and live after their
manner?
Yes, he said, I think that he would rather suffer anything than entertain
these false notions and live in this miserable manner.
Imagine once more, I said, such an one coming suddenly out of the sun to
be replaced in his old situation; would he not be certain to have his eyes full of
darkness?
To be sure, he said.
And if there were a contest, and he had to compete in measuring the shadows
with the prisoners who had never moved out of the den, while his sight was still
weak, and before his eyes had become steady (and the time which would be
needed to acquire this new habit of sight might be very considerable) would he
not be ridiculous? Men would say of him that up he went and down he came
without his eyes; and that it was better not even to think of ascending; and if
any one tried to loose another and lead him up to the light, let them only catch
the offender, and they would put him to death.
No question, he said.
This entire allegory, I said, you may now append, dear Glaucon, to the
previous argument; the prison-house is the world of sight, the light of the fire is
the sun, and you will not misapprehend me if you interpret the journey upwards
to be the ascent of the soul into the intellectual world according to my poor
belief, which, at your desire, I have expressed whether rightly or wrongly God
knows.
But, whether true or false, my opinion is that in the world of knowledge
the idea of good appears last of all, and is seen only with an effort; and, when
seen, is also inferred to be the universal author of all things beautiful and right,
parent of light and of the lord of light in this visible world, and the immediate
source of reason and truth in the intellectual; and that this is the power upon
which he who would act rationally, either in public or private life must have his
eye fixed.

I agree, he said, as far as I am able to understand you.
Moreover, I said, you must not wonder that those who attain to this beatific
vision are unwilling to descend to human affairs; for their souls are ever hastening
into the upper world where they desire to dwell; which desire of theirs is
very natural, if our allegory may be trusted.

Yes, very natural.
And is there anything surprising in one who passes from divine contemplations
to the evil state of man, misbehaving himself in a ridiculous manner; if,
while his eyes are blinking and before he has become accustomed to the surrounding
darkness, he is compelled to fight in courts of law, or in other places,
about the images or the shadows of images of justice, and is endeavouring to
meet the conceptions of those who have never yet seen absolute justice?
Anything but surprising, he replied.
Any one who has common sense will remember that the bewilderments of
the eyes are of two kinds, and arise from two causes, either from coming out of
the light or from going into the light, which is true of the mind’s eye, quite as
much as of the bodily eye; and he who remembers this when he sees any one
whose vision is perplexed and weak, will not be too ready to laugh; he will first
ask whether that soul of man has come out of the brighter light, and is unable
to see because unaccustomed to the dark, or having turned from darkness to
the day is dazzled by excess of light. And he will count the one happy in his
condition and state of being, and he will pity the other; or, if he have a mind
to laugh at the soul which comes from below into the light, there will be more
reason in this than in the laugh which greets him who returns from above out
of the light into the den.
That, he said, is a very just distinction.
But then, if I am right, certain professors of education must be wrong when
they say that they can put a knowledge into the soul which was not there before,
like sight into blind eyes.

They undoubtedly say this, he replied.
Whereas, our argument shows that the power and capacity of learning exists
in the soul already; and that just as the eye was unable to turn from darkness to
light without the whole body, so too the instrument of knowledge can only by
the movement of the whole soul be turned from the world of becoming into that
of being, and learn by degrees to endure the sight of being, and of the brightest
and best of being, or in other words, of the good.
 
Native Son,
Your love for the alleged words of those ancient philosophers is apparent, and it appears that you would like to share your understanding of them. It is interesting that their musings are still relevant all these centuries later, although I am not clear about how your message applies to DO's original question.
 
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Actually I tried a 45 RPM record once, both side A and B, but my DVD player's tray was not big enough, even though I also inserted an old audio-technica pickup (needle). And sometimes I have a nasty tick in my mind's eye and therefore i cannot even play once those events of having reincarnated into a microbe and up the chain, let alone replay. But seriously, it sounds as if you are playing a Meher Baba record, when it comes to reincarnation and I'm assuming that you are stating that the soul reincarnates into all forms of organic and inorganic material alike. Are you? And finally, regarding the big bang of the theoretical physicists, that too, being of the material world, is only one of the infinite number of big bangs that have occurred since the beginning of time. According to Plato, Time, Space, and matter were all created at the same time, so`that if one is to end, they all will end together, as anything that has a beginning will also have a middle, and unfortunately, also an end. That is why when we say that the soul is "immortal" having been created, may also have an end. But that end is depended upon the the creator, as the creator, technically speaking, is the only Being that is truly Eternal, but we are not, if God, the creator, or whatever term we want to address this eternal being by, deems to take away our immortality. And that is by making any one created soul just non-existent, as was our state before we were created. God gives it, and also takes it away, if he chooses to do so.

This is what I tend to believe. But being that I truly know that I'm not the One God, and therefore must be one of the many created souls, I know that much about reality and myself. And that "much" is precisely that, much of nothing, as I only know that God knows, and the rest of us can only have opinions. About reality I mean, when I say that only God knows. In reality, sometimes I wonder if i even exist, to tell the truth, even though, "I think, therefore I am". Descartes gave himself a biased question, as he neglected to reason that perhaps someone else was doing his thinking for him, like God, maybe? I think that Plato's Parmenides dialogue would be interesting for those here that contemplated reincarnation and whether there is only one being pretending to be many, or if there are many pretending to be One. Or as Meher Baba related to us that God is the only reality, and the rest of us are just a bunch of some kind of carrots in his dreams. Which is very interesting and thought provoking idea; God only exists, and he falls asleep forgetting and not knowing that he is not god, and then, after becoming every and each material object in the material world, such as one grain of sand, and so on, wakes up to realize that he is god. And then, again, falling in slumber, repeats this dream over and over, and over again in eternity. And we are just part of his dreams, as he also dreams to be each and every human being too, before waking up. But then, thinking from a dream entity, if I have a mind of my own and dream characters are allowed to express ourselves, I would say that Meher Baba is a god in hell and not in heaven, if this sleeping and waking is all god can do. For sure, to be isolated as being the only one and alone in the seen or unseen universe, is no heaven to me, but hell. Then I would rather be a dream character than be god, if i had a choice. But I suspect, like most of the many, that we are both one and many, and god, if one exists, then he made us many, as one is the loneliest number that could ever be, and two is not much better, as at least we need to be three; father, son, and holy ghost, to make the Christians accept reincarnation.

Again, all kidding aside, we know nothing for sure on this side of existence, and if there is something after life here, perhaps we may know a little something more then. But, perhaps not even in-between lives, if there be such a thing, we may know no more than we do here. And who is to say that, as some claim, we may just be a simulated computer program of sort? Which means that everything we think we know has all being programmed in our minds, and that is all that we can see with our mind's eye. Reality may be stranger than our best fiction, as we know it. Myths may turn out to be reality, and our perception of reality here in this world of senses may just be a myth.

Created?

Before a thing can change or be changed, act or be acted upon, it must exist. Those who might dissent obviously believe in things that don't exist. Fortunately there are now medications for that. This simple, self-evident axiom means change is a "function of" existence, something derived from the phenomenon of being. No phenomenon can be the result of its own subordinate derivative, so existence must be the source of cause and effect and not the result of it. From Big Bang to Genesis any hypothesis of cosmic creation is inherently contrary to logic.

Conditions are created, existences aren't, they are not temporal in nature...not the result of cause/effect. You exist. The principle that explains the phenomenon of existence is called Equilibrium:
theory-of-reciprocity.com/
 
I don't see myself as a prisoner in a cave, or 'trapped' in my body. I don't see this Earthly life as a trial. I see myself as an entity having this experience now. I think all levels of being are interesting and valuable in their own way. Why would one level of consciousness be an illusion and another not?

It's obvious that you have lost the remembrance of that one glimpse all we humans have had of reality. Otherwise you would not have posed such a question. Also, you seem to be stuck at a point most find themselves, and which is that, like most here, they think that they are the measure of all things.........this is an old argument that was dispelled long ago. The argument was championed by the Greek Sophist, Protagoras. The Divine one quoted you, and correctly and justly referenced our dream states in reference to illusions and reality. Here following is a more expounded argument on your question. Our personal perceptions are not the measure of all things, as there is an "absolute" standard to measure all things.

.......’When I hear your arguments, I am marvellously ready to assent.’
’But I ought not to conceal from you that there is a serious objection
which may be urged against this doctrine of Protagoras. For there
are states, such as madness and dreaming, in which perception is
false; and half our life is spent in dreaming; and who can say that
at this instant we are not dreaming? Even the fancies of madmen
are real at the time. But if knowledge is perception, how can we
distinguish between the true and the false in such cases? Having
stated the objection, I will now state the answer. Protagoras would
deny the continuity of phenomena; he would say that what is different
is entirely different, and whether active or passive has a different
power. There are infinite agents and patients in the world, and these
produce in every combination of them a different perception. Take
myself as an instance:–Socrates may be ill or he may be well,–and remember
that Socrates, with all his accidents, is spoken of. The wine
which I drink when I am well is pleasant to me, but the same wine
is unpleasant to me when I am ill. And there is nothing else from
which I can receive the same impression, nor can another receive
the same impression from the wine. Neither can I and the object
of sense become separately what we become together. For the one
in becoming is relative to the other, but they have no other relation;
and the combination of them is absolute at each moment. (In
modern language, the act of sensation is really indivisible, though
capable of a mental analysis into subject and object.) My sensation
alone is true, and true to me only. And therefore, as Protagoras says,
”To myself I am the judge of what is and what is not.” Thus the
flux of Homer and Heracleitus, the great Protagorean saying that
”Man is the measure of all things,” the doctrine of Theaetetus that
”Knowledge is perception,” have all the same meaning. And this is
thy new- born child, which by my art I have brought to light; and
you must not be angry if instead of rearing your infant we expose
him.’
’Theaetetus will not be angry,’ says Theodorus; ’he is very goodnatured.
But I should like to know, Socrates, whether you mean to
say that all this is untrue?’
’First reminding you that I am not the bag which contains the arguments,
but that I extract them from Theaetetus, shall I tell you
what amazes me in your friend Protagoras?’
’What may that be?’
’I like his doctrine that what appears is; but I wonder that he did
not begin his great work on Truth with a declaration that a pig, or
a dog-faced baboon, or any other monster which has sensation, is
a measure of all things; then, while we were reverencing him as a
god, he might have produced a magnificent effect by expounding to
us that he was no wiser than a tadpole. For if sensations are always
true, and one man’s discernment is as good as another’s, and every
man is his own judge, and everything that he judges is right and
true, then what need of Protagoras to be our instructor at a high
figure; and why should we be less knowing than he is, or have to
go to him, if every man is the measure of all things? My own art
of midwifery, and all dialectic, is an enormous folly, if Protagoras’
”Truth” be indeed truth, and the philosopher is not merely amusing
himself by giving oracles out of his book.’
Theodorus thinks that Socrates is unjust to his master, Protagoras; but he
is too old and stiff to try a fall with him, and therefore refers him to Theaetetus,
who is already driven out of his former opinion by the arguments of Socrates......
 
Created?

Before a thing can change or be changed, act or be acted upon, it must exist. Those who might dissent obviously believe in things that don't exist. Fortunately there are now medications for that. This simple, self-evident axiom means change is a "function of" existence, something derived from the phenomenon of being. No phenomenon can be the result of its own subordinate derivative, so existence must be the source of cause and effect and not the result of it. From Big Bang to Genesis any hypothesis of cosmic creation is inherently contrary to logic.

Conditions are created, existences aren't, they are not temporal in nature...not the result of cause/effect. You exist. The principle that explains the phenomenon of existence is called Equilibrium:
theory-of-reciprocity.com/
Were you not created by a male and a female? Were you not changed? Where were you before your birth, except in the sexual desire, imagination and wish of your parents? Fortunately there always has been a remedy for that too! And logic is an instrument for the use of a few specialists and masters. For there is logic of logic, for which logic cannot be comprehended without it. You are a phenomenon resulted from a phenomenon that you have no idea of, and not in any state of balance you may imagine. The BB is an idiotic concept conceived by idiots who have no conception of real existence. Those proponents are the same that strain at a gnat, and yet swallow a camel. For the say that the whole physical universe was contained in a thing no bigger than an atom before the Big Bang, which in terms of ratio wise, we can safely say that the whole physical universe came to be from practically nothing. Yet these same ones reject the traditional concept of a Creator creating the visible physical universe from nothing. And regarding Genesis, it is just an allegory for those that have a mind to understand it, which obviously you don't. Contrary to your logic or not, you have an opinion, whether original or borrowed, which lacks substance, and I'm afraid that you may be the one that needs medicament, but one to be administered by a master of reality.

And I mean not to be rude, as you were, but you need to change your credo logo, as you are neither omniscient, nor humble, to say the least.
 
Native Son,
Your love for the alleged words of those ancient philosophers is apparent, and it appears that you would like to share your understanding of them. It is interesting that their musings are still relevant all these centuries later, although I am not clear about how your message applies to DO's original question.
Ken, you are correct regarding my love, except it's limited to about 3 or four, when it comes to ancient philosophers. However, I have nothing to share here of my own, as I only pointed out some old concepts/arguments that were/are going around this forum, which can be seen to have been contemplated ages ago. We will all face the big moment one day, and perhaps then, and only then, will all these, seemingly, useless arguments will come to a head. Like you, I have no recollection of any previous lives, and perhaps it is me who is too blind to see. But I tend to believe that all these people remembering previous lives, whether on their own or aided by this so called regression technique, is just something that just came into style, and everyone seems to want to be in the "groove", just like body tattoos have come into style. In truth, I believe in reincarnation from a philosophical point of view, but I doubt that most, or nearly all, who claim to remember past lives, or those that claim to have seen the other world through NDE, are imagining it all by being self-deluded, or are just putting on a show. This is all I have to share, from a personal point of view. As God only knows. And the logic of logic reveals that there has to be a cause for all that exists, as nothing of what we can imagine existence to be, is reality. The only reality possible is God, or whatever we want to term this Great, Wonderful, and Mysterious Being. Socrates referred to this Being as the Absolute Good, and creator of the ALL, real or unreal, existent or non-existent. And I cannot help if you do not see how all this applies to DO's original question. Perhaps if you read Plato you might see it, eventually.

I have better depart this forum, as I see a storm coming.
 
Whoa folks, this philosophical discussion is getting a bit out of hand.

Native Son, there are some things that need to be experienced to be understood, your admission that you have never experienced a past life remembrance or some other paranormal indication of them does make me wonder why you became a member of this Past Life forum, but it does explain the motives behind your messages.

I would like for you to be able to experience some of what is normally discussed here, but I think that you need to relax your structure a bit so that you could get more inside of yourself rather into the thoughts of others. The recognition of reincarnation is difficult for a great number of people for one reason or another, you are not alone. I am a bit hesitant to further any disagreement, but your suggestion that reincarnation is a current "fad" is sorely off the mark since it has been discussed even in the times you speak of.
 
Were you not created by a male and a female? Were you not changed? Where were you before your birth, except in the sexual desire, imagination and wish of your parents? Fortunately there always has been a remedy for that too! And logic is an instrument for the use of a few specialists and masters. For there is logic of logic, for which logic cannot be comprehended without it. You are a phenomenon resulted from a phenomenon that you have no idea of, and not in any state of balance you may imagine. The BB is an idiotic concept conceived by idiots who have no conception of real existence. Those proponents are the same that strain at a gnat, and yet swallow a camel. For the say that the whole physical universe was contained in a thing no bigger than an atom before the Big Bang, which in terms of ratio wise, we can safely say that the whole physical universe came to be from practically nothing. Yet these same ones reject the traditional concept of a Creator creating the visible physical universe from nothing. And regarding Genesis, it is just an allegory for those that have a mind to understand it, which obviously you don't. Contrary to your logic or not, you have an opinion, whether original or borrowed, which lacks substance, and I'm afraid that you may be the one that needs medicament, but one to be administered by a master of reality.

And I mean not to be rude, as you were, but you need to change your credo logo, as you are neither omniscient, nor humble, to say the least.

Logo was tongue in cheek sarcasm. : )

Life and death are conditions, they are temporary. Existence is not temporal, it is eternal. Existence is the source of cause and effect, not the result of it.

I was not created. Prior to birth, I took advantage of the reproductive system of existing lives which offered a way to stabilize my environment and develop a useful machine called a body. The genetic blueprint for my shell was a male/female collaboration that assured I got the benefit of the latest in corporal engineering. The 'mortar' was fed to me by my mother. It was comprised of the food she ate. Eventually I began growing with the food I ate. Every cell in it now will decompose and be replaced by new cuisine within about seven years. My body is something I wear.

If you could strip away the blood and the bones long enough to glimpse your true countenance, you likely would not recognize yourself. Indeed, your elemental being may not have the property of mass and it may be as transparent as space, itself.

The logic is too involved to post here, but: theory-of-reciprocity.com/life.html is rather easy to understand. No magical thinking involved.
 
Logo was tongue in cheek sarcasm. : )

Life and death are conditions, they are temporary. Existence is not temporal, it is eternal. Existence is the source of cause and effect, not the result of it.

I was not created. Prior to birth, I took advantage of the reproductive system of existing lives which offered a way to stabilize my environment and develop a useful machine called a body. The genetic blueprint for my shell was a male/female collaboration that assured I got the benefit of the latest in corporal engineering. The 'mortar' was fed to me by my mother. It was comprised of the food she ate. Eventually I began growing with the food I ate. Every cell in it now will decompose and be replaced by new cuisine within about seven years. My body is something I wear.

If you could strip away the blood and the bones long enough to glimpse your true countenance, you likely would not recognize yourself. Indeed, your elemental being may not have the property of mass and it may be as transparent as space, itself.

The logic is too involved to post here, but: theory-of-reciprocity.com/life.html is rather easy to understand. No magical thinking involved.
Logic is not that involved, as it is mere truth, when accompanied by correct opinion. And as far as sarcasm, tongue and cheek, or any other brand, it seems that your entire perspective presented to me on the essence of being is entirely a joke of bad plagiarism, and if you had taken the time to view my initial posts you would have noted it, if you are so enlightened as you claim. Why? Because you are preaching to the choir. If you have not read Plato, then you are borrowing from someone who has, in using those similes and examples to convince me on the immortality and pre-existence of the soul.
Nevertheless, you were created, by God you were! And don't forget it while your cells are still being replaced, as you will be reminded of it when those cells finally decompose for good! It will then be as clear as Crystal, and as temporal as required for you to see the light. You are like the many, as a little sugar makes the medicine go down. Don't you know that it is wrong to take advantage of others' things, especially of their reproductive systems? If you only knew what awaits your soul you would not be so high-spirited, my friend. Don't just wear your body, put it to good use. And don't be living by theories, but rather use and take advantage of your latest corporal engineered body, which is holding your soul prisoner, for acquiring true philosophy.

Does not the divine appear to you to be that
which naturally orders and rules, and the mortal to be that which is subject
and servant? True. And which does the soul resemble? The soul resembles
the divine, and the body the mortal–there can be no doubt of that, Socrates.
Then reflect, Cebes: of all which has been said is not this the conclusion?–that
the soul is in the very likeness of the divine, and immortal, and intellectual,
and uniform, and indissoluble, and unchangeable; and that the body is in the
very likeness of the human, and mortal, and unintellectual, and multiform, and
dissoluble, and changeable. Can this, my dear Cebes, be denied? It cannot. But
if it be true, then is not the body liable to speedy dissolution? and is not the
soul almost or altogether indissoluble? Certainly. And do you further observe,
that after a man is dead, the body, or visible part of him, which is lying in
the visible world, and is called a corpse, and would naturally be dissolved and
decomposed and dissipated, is not dissolved or decomposed at once, but may
remain for a for some time, nay even for a long time, if the constitution be sound
at the time of death, and the season of the year favourable? For the body when
shrunk and embalmed, as the manner is in Egypt, may remain almost entire
through infinite ages; and even in decay, there are still some portions, such as
the bones and ligaments, which are practically indestructible:–Do you agree?
Yes. And is it likely that the soul, which is invisible, in passing to the place of
the true Hades, which like her is invisible, and pure, and noble, and on her way
to the good and wise God, whither, if God will, my soul is also soon to go,–that
the soul, I repeat, if this be her nature and origin, will be blown away and
destroyed immediately on quitting the body, as the many say? That can never
be, my dear Simmias and Cebes. The truth rather is, that the soul which is
pure at departing and draws after her no bodily taint, having never voluntarily
during life had connection with the body, which she is ever avoiding, herself
gathered into herself;– and making such abstraction her perpetual study–which
means that she has been a true disciple of philosophy; and therefore has in
fact been always engaged in the practice of dying? For is not philosophy the
practice of death?– Certainly– That soul, I say, herself invisible, departs to the
invisible world–to the divine and immortal and rational: thither arriving, she
is secure of bliss and is released from the error and folly of men, their fears and
wild passions and all other human ills, and for ever dwells, as they say of the
initiated, in company with the gods.

Now my objection is not the same as that
of Simmias; for I am not disposed to deny that the soul is stronger and more
lasting than the body, being of opinion that in all such respects the soul very
far excels the body. Well, then, says the argument to me, why do you remain
unconvinced?–When you see that the weaker continues in existence after the
man is dead, will you not admit that the more lasting must also survive during
the same period of time? Now I will ask you to consider whether the objection,
which, like Simmias, I will express in a figure, is of any weight.
The analogy which I will adduce is that of an old weaver, who dies, and after his death
somebody says:–He is not dead, he must be alive;–see, there is the coat which
he himself wove and wore, and which remains whole and undecayed. And then
he proceeds to ask of some one who is incredulous, whether a man lasts longer,
or the coat which is in use and wear; and when he is answered that a man
lasts far longer, thinks that he has thus certainly demonstrated the survival of
the man, who is the more lasting, because the less lasting remains.

And then I went on to examine the
corruption of them, and then to the things of heaven and earth, and at last I
concluded myself to be utterly and absolutely incapable of these enquiries, as I
will satisfactorily prove to you. For I was fascinated by them to such a degree
that my eyes grew blind to things which I had seemed to myself, and also to
others, to know quite well; I forgot what I had before thought self-evident truths;
e.g. such a fact as that the growth of man is the result of eating and drinking;
for when by the digestion of food flesh is added to flesh and bone to bone, and
whenever there is an aggregation of congenial elements, the lesser bulk becomes
larger and the small man great. Was not that a reasonable notion?
 
Hi Native Son - Please quote and give reference to your material. Since you are copying and pasting from the internet.

IMHO - Philosophy can be a tangled mess of semantics, opinions and subjective points of view. Although I love the challenge, the critical thinking and debate of engagement - I think having the OBE, NDE, PL experiences and dreams tells us much more about not who we are, but WHY we are.

You stated earlier that science had no proof for reincarnation. Science has no proof for Love either. Carl Jung once asked a student if he loved his mother...the student said "yes." Jung replied.."Prove it." Of course he could not. Have you studied Bruce Liptons work The Biology of Belief? Michael Talbot and the Holographic Universe?? Take a look in the science book section. They are not all about reincarnation but the science of the spirit/soul. Thinking beyond and into the new Millennium.

The Biology of Belief will forever change how you think about your own thinking. Stunning new scientific discoveries about the biochemical effects of the brain’s functioning show that all the cells of your body are affected by your thoughts. Bruce H. Lipton, Ph.D., a renowned cell biologist, describes the precise molecular pathways through which this occurs. Using simple language, illustrations, humor, and everyday examples, he demonstrates how the new science of epigenetics is revolutionizing our understanding of the link between mind and matter, and the profound effects it has on our personal lives and the collective life of our species.
- Bruce Lipton

Author Talbot writes that ". . . there is evidence to suggest that our world and everything in it. . . are also only ghostly images, projections from a level of reality so beyond our own it is literally beyond both space and time." Hence, the title of his book. Beginning with the work of physicist David Bohm and neurophysiologist Karl Pribram, both of whom independently arrived at holographic theories or models of the universe, Talbot explains in clear terms the theory and physics of holography and its application, both in science and in explanation of the paranormal and psychic. His theory of reality accommodates this latest thinking in physics as well as many unresolved mind-body questions. This well-written and fascinating study is recommended for science collections.
- Hilary D. Burton, Lawrence Livermore National Lab., Livermore, Cal.

Candace B. Pert, Ph.D. is a Research Professor in the Department of Physiology and Biophysics at Georgetown University Medical Center in Washington D.C. Her research regarding neuropeptides,which are chemical substances made and released by brain cells, and other cells suggests that in the body network, these information receptors serve as a form of communication for the entire body. In her book Molecules of Emotions she speaks in depth about her research, her journey and scientific methods, as well as her conclusions:

We can no longer think of emotions as having less validity than physical, material substance, but instead must see them as cellular signals that are involved in the process of translating information into physical reality, literally transforming mind into matter. Emotions are at the nexus between matter and mind, going back and forth between the two and influencing both.” Molecules of Emotion. pg. 187.

And since you like Philosophy, perhaps Plato's question is one for you. ;o)

"What sort of knowledge is there which would draw the soul from becoming to being?" Socrates Book VII of The Republic by Plato -- end line of Chapter 7 - Socrates & Glaucon.

Have a wonderful Journey!
 
... about not who we are, but WHY we are. ...
I like it!

I think that the quest to find out "who we are" is an impossible mission, beyond our human comprehension. So it is futile.

To progress, it is much more useful (and achievable too) to know why we are here now, what we are meant to learn and experience.

I believe that all of us are here to improve our intellects (reasoning capability), and to learn to master our emotions. Besides those, each one of us has a specific individual karmic lesson to learn.

I don't subscribe to the opinion that we're here to "learn to love" (this can be a karmic lesson for some individuals), even less to "learn to unconditionally love". We already come from, and will return to, a place of love and acceptance beyond description (many people experienced it in their alternate states of consciousness; I experienced it!).

:)
 
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Hi Native Son - Please quote and give reference to your material. Since you are copying and pasting from the internet.
I'm copying and pasting from pdf and word files stored on PC, and I'm usually and mostly referencing B. Jowett's English translation of Plato's dialogues. But I will make reference to the source for the benefit of those that may not be familiar with Plato. I had assumed that anyone seriously discoursing on the immortality of the soul and reincarnation, along with OBE and NDE, would have had a great interest in being familiar with Plato, especially with the Myth of Er in Book ten of the Republic. Er, had a very long NDE, more than 10 days, when he finally woke up on the funeral pyre, before they had a change to cremate his body.

Well, I said, I will tell you a tale; not one of the tales which Odysseus tells
to the hero Alcinous, yet this too is a tale of a hero, Er the son of Armenius,
a Pamphylian by birth. He was slain in battle, and ten days afterwards, when
the bodies of the dead were taken up already in a state of corruption, his body
was found unaffected by decay, and carried away home to be buried. And on
the twelfth day, as he was lying on the funeral pile, he returned to life and told
them what he had seen in the other world. He said that when his soul left
the body he went on a journey with a great company, and that they came to
a mysterious place at which there were two openings in the earth; they were
near together, and over against them were two other openings in the heaven
above....


IMHO - Philosophy can be a tangled mess of semantics, opinions and subjective points of view. Although I love the challenge, the critical thinking and debate of engagement - I think having the OBE, NDE, PL experiences and dreams tells us much more about not who we are, but WHY we are.

I respect this opinion of yours. Although I have no clear recollection of previous lives, nor any NDE to share, I have had an OBE lasting more than 12 hours. But I will not present it here, as it's too horrible to describe, and something along the lines with Dante's Inferno, as described in his Divine Comedy, although much more dreadful.

You stated earlier that science had no proof for reincarnation. Science has no proof for Love either. Carl Jung once asked a student if he loved his mother...the student said "yes." Jung replied.."Prove it." Of course he could not. Have you studied Bruce Liptons work The Biology of Belief? Michael Talbot and the Holographic Universe?? Take a look in the science book section. They are not all about reincarnation but the science of the spirit/soul. Thinking beyond and into the new Millennium.

- Bruce Lipton

I'm familiar with Jung, and also with the speculative, suggestive Holographic Universe concept. Just another, more current, take on Plato's cave allegory. But I'm nor familiar with Lipton nor his work you cited. And both reincarnation and love can be proved, although, as others say, not scientifically. I stated the opinions of the typical academic crowd, regarding "scientific" proof. For to prove that I love someone, all I need to do is quote a passage from one of the gospels; "This is My commandment, that you love one another as I loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." John 15:13


Candace B. Pert, Ph.D. is a Research Professor in the Department of Physiology and Biophysics at Georgetown University Medical Center in Washington D.C. Her research regarding neuropeptides,which are chemical substances made and released by brain cells, and other cells suggests that in the body network, these information receptors serve as a form of communication for the entire body. In her book Molecules of Emotions she speaks in depth about her research, her journey and scientific methods, as well as her conclusions:



And since you like Philosophy, perhaps Plato's question is one for you. ;o)

"What sort of knowledge is there which would draw the soul from becoming to being?" Socrates Book VII of The Republic by Plato -- end line of Chapter 7 - Socrates & Glaucon.

Have a wonderful Journey!
Thanks, and pleasant journey to you too, and may all of them be by the heavenly way, and not the rough underground way, Socrates well wish to all humanity. End of book ten, Republic;
Wherefore my counsel is that we hold fast ever to the heavenly way and follow after justice and virtue always, considering that the soul is immortal and able to endure every sort of good and every sort of evil. Thus shall we live dear to one another and to the gods, both while remaining here and when, like conquerors in the games who go round to gather gifts, we receive our reward. And it shall be well with us both in this life and in the pilgrimage of a thousand years which we have been describing. Edgar Cayce, in an interview, although he was not supposed to have been familiar with Plato, especially the Atlantis myth, cited Plato's thousand years pilgrimage.

Socrates too proved love, as he laid down his life for friends, centuries before the Gospels were ever written. I'm musically inclined and can see that much of our music, old or new, comes to those that make it by way of the Muses, and contain some hints of reality. I'm on my Seventh Sojourn, The Moody Blues'. Hologram, or Cave, this physical world is the world of becoming, and not of Being; it's a Land of Make Believe, by any definition, description, allegory, or anything else the Etymologist wants to use or invent a name for it. We all have been this way before, zillion and zillion of times before, and will keep coming this way till Hell Freezes Over, The Eagles. Do you love music? I can prove that kind of love too, as I need no NDE nor the ability to recall any of my previous lives, which I know to have had an infinity of them, as my love for music is proven, subjectively for now, by my understand a deeper meaning in it.
Plato's Timaeus, right after the introduction of the myth of Atlantis;
SOCRATES: I see that I shall receive in my turn a perfect and splendid
feast of reason. And now, Timaeus, you, I suppose, should speak next, after
duly calling upon the Gods.
TIMAEUS: All men, Socrates, who have any degree of right feeling, at the
beginning of every enterprise, whether small or great, always call upon God.
And we, too, who are going to discourse of the nature of the universe, how
created or how existing without creation, if we be not altogether out of our
wits, must invoke the aid of Gods and Goddesses and pray that our words may
be acceptable to them and consistent with themselves. Let this, then, be our
invocation of the Gods, to which I add an exhortation of myself to speak in such
manner as will be most intelligible to you, and will most accord with my own
intent.
First then, in my judgment, we must make a distinction and ask, What is
that which always is and has no becoming; and what is that which is always
becoming and never is? That which is apprehended by intelligence and reason
is always in the same state; but that which is conceived by opinion with the
help of sensation and without reason, is always in a process of becoming and
perishing and never really is. Now everything that becomes or is created must of
necessity be created by some cause, for without a cause nothing can be created.
The work of the creator, whenever he looks to the unchangeable and fashions the
form and nature of his work after an unchangeable pattern, must necessarily be
made fair and perfect; but when he looks to the created only, and uses a created
pattern, it is not fair or perfect. Was the heaven then or the world, whether
called by this or by any other more appropriate name–assuming the name, I am
asking a question which has to be asked at the beginning of an enquiry about
anything–was the world, I say, always in existence and without beginning? or
created, and had it a beginning? Created, I reply, being visible and tangible and
having a body, and therefore sensible; and all sensible things are apprehended
by opinion and sense and are in a process of creation and created. Now that
which is created must, as we affirm, of necessity be created by a cause. But the
father and maker of all this universe is past finding out; and even if we found
him, to tell of him to all men would be impossible.
 
Whoa folks, this philosophical discussion is getting a bit out of hand.

Native Son, there are some things that need to be experienced to be understood, your admission that you have never experienced a past life remembrance or some other paranormal indication of them does make me wonder why you became a member of this Past Life forum, but it does explain the motives behind your messages.

I would like for you to be able to experience some of what is normally discussed here, but I think that you need to relax your structure a bit so that you could get more inside of yourself rather into the thoughts of others. The recognition of reincarnation is difficult for a great number of people for one reason or another, you are not alone. I am a bit hesitant to further any disagreement, but your suggestion that reincarnation is a current "fad" is sorely off the mark since it has been discussed even in the times you speak of.
Ken,
Here too you have misunderstood me, as I did not state that the subject of reincarnation itself is a current fad, I was merely pointing out that people claiming to recall previous lives was a, seemingly, current fad of the last 30 years or so. And I made it clear that I have no difficulty in embracing reincarnation, as it's rather otherwise, as I'm a most staunch proponent of reincarnation, and I thought that I had expressed this strong belief, rather than posing doubts and disbelief about it on all my posts. But I'm beginning to understand better the mindset and main objective of this forum.
 
I like it!

I think that the quest to find out "who we are" is an impossible mission, beyond our human comprehension. So it is futile.

To progress, it is much more useful (and achievable too) to know why we are here now, what we are meant to learn and experience.

I believe that all of us are here to improve our intellects (reasoning capability), and to learn to master our emotions. Besides those, each one of us has a specific individual karmic lesson to learn.

I don't subscribe to the opinion that we're here to "learn to love" (this can be a karmic lesson for some individuals), even less to "learn to unconditionally love". We already come from, and will return to, a place of love and acceptance beyond description (many people experienced it in their alternate states of consciousness; I experienced it!).

:)
It seems to me that you contradict yourself. On one hand you claim to have experience, as a human being, with the alternate state of consciousness, and yet you are stating that to "know who we are" is an impossible mission beyond human comprehension. Just where did your mind go in this alternate state of consciousness you experienced? Were you not beyond the realm of regular human consciousnesses, when you returned to this place of love and acceptance, which you also say is beyond description? And how do you progress when you know not where you are and why? In which direction are you heading? Don't you, friend, have to know where the "finish" line is, in order to progress towards it? You also contradict yourself when you are of opinion that we are not here to learn to love, which love is the highest of emotions, and yet you are saying that you are here to improve your intellect, so as to master your emotions. Talk about constructive criticism as being an oxymoron. What do we term an object that is full of contradictions?
Definition of oxymoron
plural
oxymora
play \ˌäk-si-ˈmȯr-ə, -sē-\
  1. : a combination of contradictory or incongruous words (such as cruel kindness); broadly : something (such as a concept) that is made up of contradictory or incongruous elements
Nothing is futile, when it is first apprehended that the hunt is more exhilarating than the capture of the prey. An excerpt from Plato's Meno dialogue:

SOCRATES: You are a rogue, Meno, and had all but caught me.
MENO: What do you mean, Socrates?
SOCRATES: I can tell why you made a simile about me.
MENO: Why?
SOCRATES: In order that I might make another simile about you. For I
know that all pretty young gentlemen like to have pretty similes made about
them–as well they may–but I shall not return the compliment. As to my being a
torpedo, if the torpedo is torpid as well as the cause of torpidity in others, then
indeed I am a torpedo, but not otherwise; for I perplex others, not because I
am clear, but because I am utterly perplexed myself. And now I know not what
virtue is, and you seem to be in the same case, although you did once perhaps
know before you touched me. However, I have no objection to join with you in
the enquiry.
MENO: And how will you enquire, Socrates, into that which you do not
know? What will you put forth as the subject of enquiry? And if you find what
you want, how will you ever know that this is the thing which you did not know?
SOCRATES: I know, Meno, what you mean; but just see what a tiresome
dispute you are introducing. You argue that a man cannot enquire either about
that which he knows, or about that which he does not know; for if he knows,
he has no need to enquire; and if not, he cannot; for he does not know the very
subject about which he is to enquire.
MENO: Well, Socrates, and is not the argument sound?
SOCRATES: I think not.
MENO: Why not?
SOCRATES: I will tell you why: I have heard from certain wise men and
women who spoke of things divine that–
MENO: What did they say?
SOCRATES: They spoke of a glorious truth, as I conceive.
MENO: What was it? and who were they?
SOCRATES: Some of them were priests and priestesses, who had studied
how they might be able to give a reason of their profession: there have been
poets also, who spoke of these things by inspiration, like Pindar, and many
others who were inspired. And they say–mark, now, and see whether their
words are true–they say that the soul of man is immortal, and at one time has
an end, which is termed dying, and at another time is born again, but is never
destroyed. And the moral is, that a man ought to live always in perfect holiness.
’For in the ninth year Persephone sends the souls of those from whom she has
received the penalty of ancient crime back again from beneath into the light of
the sun above, and these are they who become noble kings and mighty men and
great in wisdom and are called saintly heroes in after ages.’ The soul, then, as
being immortal, and having been born again many times, and having seen all
things that exist, whether in this world or in the world below, has knowledge of
them all; and it is no wonder that she should be able to call to remembrance all
that she ever knew about virtue, and about everything; for as all nature is akin,
and the soul has learned all things; there is no difficulty in her eliciting or as men
say learning, out of a single recollection all the rest, if a man is strenuous and
does not faint; for all enquiry and all learning is but recollection. And therefore
we ought not to listen to this sophistical argument about the impossibility of
enquiry: for it will make us idle; and is sweet only to the sluggard; but the
other saying will make us active and inquisitive. In that confiding, I will gladly
enquire with you into the nature of virtue.
MENO: Yes, Socrates; but what do you mean by saying that we do not learn,
and that what we call learning is only a process of recollection? Can you teach
me how this is?
SOCRATES: I told you, Meno, just now that you were a rogue, and now you
ask whether I can teach you, when I am saying that there is no teaching, but only
recollection; and thus you imagine that you will involve me in a contradiction.
MENO: Indeed, Socrates, I protest that I had no such intention. I only asked
the question from habit; but if you can prove to me that what you say is true,
I wish that you would.
SOCRATES: It will be no easy matter, but I will try to please you to the
utmost of my power. Suppose that you call one of your numerous attendants,
that I may demonstrate on him.
 
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