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Covid19 Thread 1 (The Elephant in the Room)

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Not only did those poor Japanese work so many hours, but in some cases they even had to spend their scarce holidays together, and sleep up to 10 persons or so in a single room with double-decked beds, if you please !

Feudal mentality, they say.

No accounting for tastes !
 
U.S. Wuhan-Corona deaths are now more than 50,000, and a predictive model relied on by the White House this week increased its projection of expected deaths by August by 10 per cent to 66,000. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...h-toll-tops-50-000-2-416-killed-24-hours.html

Just for comparison purposes, there were apparently 58,220 U.S. military fatal casualties of the Vietnam War. https://www.archives.gov/research/military/vietnam-war/casualty-statistics So, we will soon be surpassing that noteworthy and tragic milestone. Of course, the bulk of those who died in Vietnam were young males, whereas current deaths are mostly from the other end of the age scale and are much more balanced in terms of male/female. How all of that balances out, I have no idea.

This is a sad time.

S&S
 
Hi Cyrus,

Speaking of the "Chosen" few, here is an interesting article about how the super wealthy are making the big bucks right now while so many people's financial boats are sinking:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/heads-win-tails-lose-americas-090010695.html

BTW--The Sound of Silence (original Simon & Garfunkel version) was one of my favorites "back in the day". I'm not a hater of the wealthy, but somehow this song seems apt in view of the article cited.

My mother was a child of the great depression, with a host of "old sayings" she liked to repeat, including: "The Rich get Richer and the Poor get Children". o_O I'm not sure how to parse this particular saying. I long considered it to be merely one of the zany things that "old people" say. ;) However, now that I am an "old people" I can see across the course of a lifetime how true this is. (In general, there are always exceptions :cool:). Considered as a truism related to the people within a nation, it seems to be true. It also seems to be true when considered as a truism when looking at 1st world vs. 3rd world nations. Sad, but mostly still true "across the board".

My mother said it in a variety of ways--sometimes world weary, sometimes in a spirit of "this is just how the world works--DEAL WITH IT"! As you might have guessed, I'm still trying to figure out how to DEAL WITH IT.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I'm not generally a fan of "The Guardian" or of their point of view.
PPS--Missing my Mom today. She would be a good source of wisdom in a time like this. The people who dealt with the Great Depression and WWII were very special group IMO.
 
SeaAndSky said:
Hi Cyrus,

Speaking of the "Chosen" few, here is an interesting article about how the super wealthy are making the big bucks right now while so many people's financial boats are sinking:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/heads-win-tails-lose-americas-090010695.html

BTW--The Sound of Silence (original Simon & Garfunkel version) was one of my favorites "back in the day". I'm not a hater of the wealthy, but somehow this song seems apt in view of the article cited.

My mother was a child of the great depression, with a host of "old sayings" she liked to repeat, including: "The Rich get Richer and the Poor get Children". o_O I'm not sure how to parse this particular saying. I long considered it to be merely one of the zany things that "old people" say. ;) However, now that I am an "old people" I can see across the course of a lifetime how true this is. (In general, there are always exceptions :cool:). Considered as a truism related to the people within a nation, it seems to be true. It also seems to be true when considered as a truism when looking at 1st world vs. 3rd world nations. Sad, but mostly still true "across the board".

My mother said it in a variety of ways--sometimes world weary, sometimes in a spirit of "this is just how the world works--DEAL WITH IT"! As you might have guessed, I'm still trying to figure out how to DEAL WITH IT.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I'm not generally a fan of "The Guardian" or of their point of view.
PPS--Missing my Mom today. She would be a good source of wisdom in a time like this. The people who dealt with the Great Depression and WWII were very special group IMO.
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SeaAndSky said:
Hi Cyrus,

I wish you'd retained the text. I was looking forward to responding.

Cordially,
S&S
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Hi, SeaAndSky !

Can't it be by a private message?

How's everything?

Here, looking forward for the end of confinamiento (lockdown), the first phase beginning the next Saturday.
We're second only to you in this pandemia.

Best wishes.

 
I haven’t commented in this thread for a while, so an update...

- My Supermarket(Grocery Store) has plexiglass/plastic screens up at the register now. These are great if people were to cough or sneeze directly at me, but ineffective if people were to lean over at then cough on me.. don’t wrap around much but oh well...

- South Australia has recorded 0 cases for five days straight. People are beginning to become complacent and they shouldn’t considering we are coming into Winter.

- We still have the option of wearing gloves or a mask... after I watched a few videos from ER Room Nurses about cross contamination in your gloves, I only tend to wear them for customers who I see wear gloves. I don’t know where their gloves have been before touching the groceries. What makes it worse is I see people put their gloved finger IN THEIR MOUTH to take the glove off. Guess you can’t fix stupid... or even quarantine it...

- Have considered getting masks for Winter. Or making my own. Winter is when all sorts of bugs are going around (especially in my district. It’s had the highest amount of Covid-19 cases in the state) and Covid-19 will add to that.

One thing I don’t understand is.... why are people still going on holidays and stuff?? While Australia still has stage two restrictions, I spoke to a lady who said she was going to Bali this week... like seriously?! This is not a time for you to go on holiday!!

I just don’t understand any more...
Eva x
 
"Hoc est simplicissimum" [this is very simple] as Aureliano Buendia used to say in "Cien Anyos de Soledad" [One hundred years of solitude] by Gabriel Garcia Marquez, when he turned mad.

When I was very young, I read a novel "A start in life" by Allan Sillitoe. There was a personage there called Moggerhanger (I write by memory, so my orthography may be wrong) who once gave several advices to a young man, just beginning to live as an adult. And one of those advices I remember still; it was:

"Put it into your head that many people are a lot more stupid than they look to us".

(again, I write by memory, so the exact phrase may be different).

Well, perhaps this is an answer to your question, Eva.

IMHO, of course.
 
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Hi Cyrus,

This is a good point, but the reverse is also true in my experience: Many people are smarter than they look. The real problem is that we judge by appearances. We expect the ordinary person to have at least an ordinary level of "common sense". As observed, many don't. OTOH, we expect those who have the appearance of intellect to be "smart" across the board, and are often surprised to learn that (outside of their areas of specialization) they are dumb as a post. Then again, I have often been surprised by the depth of wisdom coming from the most ordinary looking of people (and often those who look far less than ordinary). My youthful prejudices have been turned upside down and sideways many times across the course of a lifetime.

Cordially,
S&S
 
SeaAndSky said:
Hi Cyrus,

This is a good point, but the reverse is also true in my experience: Many people are smarter than they look. The real problem is that we judge by appearances. We expect the ordinary person to have at least an ordinary level of "common sense". As observed, many don't. OTOH, we expect those who have the appearance of intellect to be "smart" across the board, and are often surprised to learn that (outside of their areas of specialization) they are dumb as a post. Then again, I have often been surprised by the depth of wisdom coming from the most ordinary looking of people (and often those who look far less than ordinary). My youthful prejudices have been turned upside down and sideways many times across the course of a lifetime.

Cordially,
S&S
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Yes, sure.

But the Moggerhanger's advice was directed to the well-bred boys that would rather consider a fool as good and smart, than vice-versa. Its purpose was to save the well-bred boys problems related to such well-intentioned errors in psychological evaluation of the people they may encounter on their way.

That book impressed me a lot when I read it so many years ago, just exactly by naming things by their real names, that my school teachers would have never approved.

Regs.
 
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AlteSeele said:
You bring up some really good points!

Employers need to be thinking NOW on how they will re-open. But, before US states and regions can even BEGIN a phased comeback and reopen businesses, there are criteria they need to meet: they have to show a downward trajectory of influenza-like and covid-like cases reported within a 2-week period, a downward trajectory of documented covid cases within a 2-week period, downward trajectory of positive test results for covid, hospitals need to be treating those patients without crisis care, and there needs to be a robust testing program in place for at-risk healthcare employees. There's more information on The White House's web site, and this includes details on each of the three re-opening phases: https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/

A number of open business have already adapted quickly to the crisis by putting up plexiglass shielding at checkout counters, marking 6' distances, having employees work from home where possible, etc. So, bottom line is that businesses can adapt.

I've heard on the news that one of the things that may be implemented are temperature checks upon entry into a workplace. If you have a fever, you take your sick a$$ home or to the doctor. Schools need to implement similar measures and if your child has a fever, you need to take his/her sick a$$ home or to the doctor. Many employers in the US will have to rethink their sick leave policies because that's part of the problem: they are too stingy!
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Just catching up on this thread.

As at today I read an article in one of our main national newspapers in Britain - ie the Daily Mail - where a columnist was envisaging what Britain will be like in a years time. He still works from the presumption of Covid being on the scene still. In this article he puts it re workplaces, bigger shops, etc, may have temperature testing at the door before one can go in. There is a huge snag to that idea - that being we now have a law that allows people (on the say-so of just one doctor) to be forcibly treated, etc. I would never go in a place with temperature testing prior to entry - just in case my temperature was too high and "they" swooped on me and carted me off for forcible treatment (eg forcible intubation or forced injection). If that happened we would be in "1984 - George Orwell - Big Brother" territory. That would be very Hobsons Choice set-up of a "devil or deep blue sea" of not being able to go into some places or go in them and hold your breath at worry of the risk of "getting pounced on and carted away".

EDIT; Though thought has just struck me that there must be mini freezer pack things one could carry around and wipe across forehead etc prior to testing - so that any higher temperature wouldnt register anyway.
 
Australia Leads the Way--

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/c...m/news-story/55add857058731c9c71c0e96ad17da60

https://www.foxnews.com/world/new-d...-for-destroying-evidence-of-covid-19-outbreak

And catches flak from ChiComms--

https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-china-war-of-words-escalates-as-us-gets-dragged-into-fight

Predictably, the ChiComms respond with threats and insults--

China responded by threatening economic retaliation and accused Australia of doing America's dirty work.

"Obviously (Dutton) must have also received some instructions from Washington requiring him to cooperate with the U.S. in its propaganda war against China ... Some Australian politicians parroted what those U.S. forces have said and followed them to launch political attacks on China," a Chinese embassy official said. "Their move reveals the former's ignorance and bigotry as well as lack of independence, which is sad."

Which is not, IMO from personal experience, a good approach to take with Australians, some of the toughest and most independent people I've ever met.

S&S
 
At the beginning of the year I was scanning the energy for a future stock market crash, which I was doing for about 3 years because of investments, and I finally picked up on something, so I figured the stock market had peaked, and got out. At that time I also saw a little bit of bad energy for New England, which I now assume is the coronavirus.

I picked up the stock market will crash next year.

It's difficult to get a read on future events, because so many people are trying to manifest so many different things, but because so many people want to rework issues from their past lives, I see a lot of energy for a future global conflict.
 
Hi Benny,

This kind of thing is going to lead to a lot of recriminations and adverse actions in re China:

U.S. intelligence officials believe that the Chinese government misled the rest of the world about the contagiousness of COVID-19, all the while taking dramatic action to collect the medical supplies needed for its own battle against the virus, according to an analysis obtained by ABC News.

The report from the Department of Homeland Security claims that "the Chinese government intentionally concealed the severity of COVID-19 from the international community in early January while it stockpiled medical supplies by both increasing imports and decreasing exports."

"China likely cut its exports of medical supplies prior to its January WHO notification that COVID-19 is a contagion," according to the report, which was shared with law enforcement and government agencies on Friday.

The analysis looked at official and media reporting of imports and exports, and it examined alternative theories that might explain the dramatic January shift in trade patterns connected with critical health care equipment. However, none of those alternatives seemed plausible to U.S. intelligence experts, who wrote in the report: "The Chinese government attempted to hide its actions by denying there were export restrictions and obfuscating and delaying provision of its trade data."

Global trade data from February showed "a significant decline" in worldwide imports from China, according to the report. For example, imports of surgical gowns declined by 71%, surgical face masks by 48%, medical ventilators by 45% and intubation kits by 56%. (Emphasis added)

https://abcnews.go.com/US/coronavirus-live-updates-us-surpasses-65000-covid-19/story?id=70467380 Countries are going to want to bring back their production in terms of medical supplies and remove critical element manufacture in other fields from China as well. Trade wars often become shooting wars. Likewise, China has been sticking its "finger" in the eye of the world by building military bases/islands in international waters, attacking vessels fishing in international waters, and generally going back to the bad old days and ways. Feelings run high in both directions. I think you are correct. I live in Florida. When there has been a very hot Summer and not a lot of small storms to drain off all of that energy stored in the overheated ocean we know things are probably building up for a big storm. Hurricanes are no joke.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Australia is in a position to hurt China in many ways...Our biggest weapon is our location... We are only around 5 shipping days from China ,...shipping costs are minimal compared to Europe and the USA which are calculated in weeks We supply around 70% of China's iron ore needs as well has huge exports of coal. LPG and food and on
What worries America about us is our location... We are part of Asia both geographically and financially not the West...We are always looking to secure our future in Asia with trade deals and military pacts
The younger generations of Australians have been bought up with people from Asia My daughters best friends include Chinese, Indian and others from Asia they have know since primary school
That is a good thing.. but also is an indication of where our future lies ...it is in Asia not so much in the West and that worries countries such as the US ... We are only an election away... any election that will see a shift in government policy more so to Asia .. The US needs Australia because of our location in Asia The US cannot do space space missions without the US tracking stations in Australia.. I think it was the Australian tracking station that first picked up the first transmissions from the Moon and connected them to them to the US. ..The US cannot wage any sort of efficient military operations in Asia/Pacific without Australian communication bases it goes on and on and China knows that .. that the US is reliant on Australia militarily and for its space missions and its satellites communications and controls Without Australia all of these US assets would be dead in the water...and as I said China knows it.... The balance of power has always been fickle This coronavirus thing with Australia is more of a PR exercise at the request of the US than anything else...because nothing is going to happen to make China do anything it doesn't want to do and we in Australia know that better than anyone else
 
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Hi John,

I'm not surprised that for Australians their own national interests are paramount. However, I will be surprised if Australia isn't concerned about ChiComm expansionism, which is not just economic but territorial in nature. It hasn't been that long since Japan was seeking to establish its own "Co-prosperity Sphere" in the region. I will also be surprised if Australians are not concerned about the facts outlined in my last two posts. There is going to be some blow-back following this virus from most countries. Some of it will amount to soured attitudes, which were already souring as Xi has been moving step-by-step back towards an old-fashioned communist dictatorship (with some new technological twists). But, live and learn. I understand that if China is getting that much iron from Australia, neither country wants to upset what has probably been a good thing for both. And, if "ignore it and move on" is the way the wind blows in Australia, that is the way it blows. But I've got to admit that I would be a bit surprised.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi S&S yes of course Australia and Australians are concerned about the coronavirus But that is just a part of what is going on There are 1.4 billion Chinese and in total 4.5 billion Asians with most of those billions are just beginning and still to start moving up to middle class billions of them that will buy TV^s fridges washing machines air conditions phones and on and on The economic future of the world is in Asia not the US or Europe The last thing US and European corporations will do is close there operation in China and other parts of Asia not matter what US and European governments want they will build more and more to service the emerging market of billions of people China understands all of that and I'm sure have no concerns about threats from anyone They are concerned about there image and will defend that but they know no American or European corporations are going to walk away from China and Asia That is the economic future of the world There is plenty more..... Australia is geographically part of Asia All The Best
 
Hi John,

This isn't a question of complete withdrawal. It is a question of selective out-sourcing, selective tariffs, etc. There are things that each country needs to make sure it can make itself and other things where it cannot afford to be too dependent on China (and the whims of the ChiComms ) as a single or major source. Plus, there are going to be a lot of law suits coming from this. China will end up paying quite a bit one way or another--judgments, settlements or increased tariffs and lost trade deals. The thing to remember is that the ChiComms require this commerce as much or more than anyone else. They have to keep up with the growing expectations of the urban classes as well as seek to raise the standard of living of the rural classes which live in poverty. A whole lot of their strength depends on being able to satisfy the long denied material needs of their people.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi S&S A big problem I can see on the horizon is......Will Australia allow the US to use its communication and tracking .assets in Australia to wage significant military actions against China?that is the million dollar question If those actions would have detrimental effects on Australia and our economy then I cannot see any Australian government allowing that to happen If Australia denied the US to use its assets in Australia to wage significant military actions against China then I'm not sure what would happen All The Best
 
Hi John,

The U.S. will not be attacking China over Wuhan. Period. That is not even in discussion and would not be supported by anyone that I know of here or elsewhere. This is an issue involving trade and compensation for damages, not a military one. It involves not just the U.S. but the rest of the world, who will deal with it however they choose. However, I am definitely suggesting that if China starts getting hit with various economic sanctions that hurt the ChiComm reputation and grip on rule at home, they are very likely to attack something or someone on almost any pretext in order to rev up nationalism at home and divert attention. This is one of the oldest tricks in the book for dictators (straight out of Machiavelli). I can only guess at this point, but Taiwan is a long-standing possibility for such a military incursion. The U.S. will have a very hard time ignoring this as it has long been U.S. policy to defend Taiwan, plus Taiwan is a long-standing democracy with human rights. Other countries will, of course, make their own decisions in such cases, but I have a very hard time believing that Australia would side with China in such a situation. Obviously, IF it does happen, which is only a guess, we will find out.

Cordially,
S&S
 
Hi S&S The point I was trying to make was .... The same as all countries Australia puts Australia first If we had to make a choice between Australia's economy and Taiwan then there is no choice Australia would come first and Im sure the US would not be allowed to use there asserts here So it would depend on the situation The ,last thing the US needs here is creating a situation were an anti American government could get voted in As I said we are only an election any election away from moving closer to Asia All The Best
 
It does sicken me to see people putting blame on the US one way or another then go on to be on a moral high horse about it. That said this is a CCP problem and one that could be done in the ICC for which very little as usual gets done then slap the usual assortment of sanctions while the rest of the world tries to pick up the pieces and move on. Politically and economically the damage is done for the long haul, for the west this does mean a lower standard of living due to lost jobs and the cost of living going up while for the east things will be that much worse. I do see the CCP being politically isolated on the world stage ultimately opting for aggression to stave off its own end.
 
Hi TaBA,

Your last sentence is just what worries me. I hope we are both wrong on this.

Cordially,
S&S
 
IMO Political isolation is in the eyes of the beholder China does not want war ... why would they? China does not want the world economy to be disrupted by war ....They are making a fortune now like it is....like it or not... it makes me smile when the US says "we are going to bring drug production back to the US.".. if that does happen then the price of prescription drugs will more than double.. a burden the US health system could not handle...Open the bonnet of any car and just look how many of the components were made in China ..Almost everything we buy is either made in China or made from parts made in China.. If the world wants to pay thousands of dollars for TV sets then let them make them themselves.. that goes for most if not all appliances Most things we buy would be so much more expensive if they were made locally which would have detrimental effects on economies Tariffs.?.. the people pay the tariffs not the manufactures Neither China or America are members of the world court/legal system where laws and penalties can be imposed on them.. So the law suits are going nowhere I'm not sticking up for China just attempting to tell it how it is.. From all reports China is getting back at work and economists are expecting a healthy growth rate in there economy on the next report.. IMO they will come out of this stronger than what they went into it and in the short term to
 
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SeaAndSky said:
Hi TaBA,

Your last sentence is just what worries me. I hope we are both wrong on this.

Cordially,
S&S
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Just an awareness of what could and what has been on other timelines, frankly I hope it does go in a bad direction but to keep it short a lot is going to be happening very soon that would more or less take the gloves off for the CCP. The suppression of basic rights such as free speech, religion, and the right to live is going to backfire for the CCP ultimately causing mass protests like what was seen in 89 which would only make those in power tighten down the screws that much more. Worse still the decline of the west is going to pick up momentum coupled with the collapse of globalism and the economy as a whole is going to result in some horrendous situations. If things go down that road to hell you can bet that the US would give up Taiwan and South Korea as acts of appeasement then more will fallow.
 
IMO we have to look at the claims of the suppression of human rights in China in its proper context .. Firstly around 130 million plus Chinses travel overseas each year.. and almost all of them happily return home to China after seeing first hand how people in other countries live compared to how they live .. China has no restrictions on its citizens who want to migrate out of China.. all Chinese citizens are free to leave China whenever they want to... I'm not saying China is a place I want to live in.. but if it is as bad as made out by the West then the Chinese would be leaving China in there millions
 
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