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Grandson and the cupboard (new thread)

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Kitn, I'll try to help search too. Maybe if he says the name of a town or province I can do the same thing I did with the library in Minnesota.
Is there any chance he could have heard of the state of North dakota in this life? Do you have any family there etc?
Vicky
 
I don't know where he would have come up with North Dakota. We never speak of it. Right before he fell asleep he asked me what I was doing. I told him I was going to look up North Dakota. He asked if I could find a picture of him and his other mother. I told him I did not know her name. I thought I could fool him and asked him if it was Miranda-he said no her name is Sein. That is the same name he said months ago.

I searched Logan County to see if I could find cemetery transcriptions. There is a Finnish Cemetery there. None of the Finnish Cemeteries in ND have any internments listed. I searched unsolved, Todd, etc., but find nothing.

His birthday is next Tuesday-he will be four! Maybe he is remembering more, or trusting more to tell. I think he knows more than he says. He did say Todd had black hair. That was something new. I will listen to see if he is consistent.

I sure appreciate all the help. The www is too large for me to narrow it down.
 
I have found Criminal Justice Statistics Special Reports for homicides in North Dakota for years 1999 to 2006:

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/loc...cle_bf5b6f4a-3364-5d5f-81d0-9a42c2c5409f.html

These reports contain summary of homicide incidents for each year and also homicide statistics from 1978. From table 5 of
the 1999's report you can see that among all homicide victims in ND during period 1978-1999 only 5 were males with ages from 1 to 10 years.
I don't know how to obtain the summary of homicide incidents for years before 1999, but I suposse that similar reports were published.

The following web page contains the number of murders in ND for years from 1960 to 2000:

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/ndcrimn.htm


Best regards.

Jose.
 
Thank you. I found a site last night and was browsing through it. It did not give ages or anything. Today I noticed it is for the supreme court.

http://www.ndcourts.com/

I will check the links. Maybe not today. We had a fire up the road last night and I was awakened and could not get back to sleep to almost 4 AM. It was a car fire and no one was hurt; thank God. I sure do appreciate all the help.
 
Hi Kitn,
I looked on the links that Jose gave you. It looks like there is name of a person on there that worked for the Bureau of Criminal something that could be called. I'd be willing to do it. At first, it seemed daunting but after looking at the links that Jose provided there weren't that many murders of young boys. It seems like there would be someone with this information at their fingertips.
Vicky
 
More findings

The data, contain information describing the victim(s) of the homicide, the offender(s), the relationship between victim and offender, the weapon used, and the circumstance of the incident.

I have analysed the reported homicides that occurred in North Dakota. I have not found any case that perfectly fits to Kade's memories. But on December 1984 a multiple homicide occurred at Grand Forks with four victims: 3 females (of 1, 8 and 33 years old) and 1 male (of 2 years old). Offender was 33 years old. Weapon: Handgun. Relationship of victim to offender: Friend. Circumstance: Brawl due to influence of alcohol.

Lastly, I have found a picture of the Kalevala Finnish Evangelical National Church at Kalevala Township, Carlton County, Minnesota:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natio..._Places_listings_in_Carlton_County,_Minnesota

Kitn, can you show Kade the picture to see if he recognizes it?

Best regards.
 
Jose, thank you I will show him tomorrow.

I will check out the links. Thank you.

I am hoping he said North Dakota because of a supressed memory. He knows we live in TN and there was no reason for him to come out with North Dakota. So, if what he tells is PL memories then he would have previously known someone or had been to North Dakota.

He says he was a boy. I don't know why he would say he had a sister named Emmy and a brother Nicholas and not know his own name. He still says his mother's name was Sien (scene).

I will have my father here tomorrow. He has alzheimers so we have to watch him constantly (he's a runner). If I don't have time to search tomorrow, I will Sunday.
 
I've lived in North Dakota for all my life and remember the murder case that was referenced above. I vaguely remember that the 8-year-old was named Jody and she had blonde hair. I may be confusing two different cases because there were two families killed a few years apart in the Grand Forks area by fathers/husbands/boyfriends. Both cases would have been covered extensively by the Grand Forks Herald. I was a kid and found the cases really unsettling, enough that I still remember them.

I've read your posts with interest and some of what you've written sounds familiar. I'm not familiar with a lot of the words your grandson has come up with or any recent murder suicides that exactly match the details he's recounted. I don't believe there's a Kalevala in North Dakota or any formal Kalevala festival, though it's definitely a Finnish word. "Cupboard," however, is the word that everyone uses for the kitchen cabinet and the cupboard under the kitchen sink, the bathroom closet, etc. I would expect a North Dakota child to call any of those things a "cupboard." North Dakota is extremely rural and it would be normal for a woman living in the country or a small rural town to have a garden with vegetables and flowers and for her child to spend a lot of time with her in it, probably barefoot! Pressing leaves is an activity I did with my mom in the 1970s. It's the sort of thing that people might do at any time.

There are hills in various parts of North Dakota, including the Turtle Mountains (actually rolling hills that look a lot like a turtle's back) and in the area around Des Lacs, North Dakota. There are also the Badlands near Dickinson and Medora in eastern N.D. that look more like mountains to us. It does snow a lot here and get very cold, as in 20 to 30 below zero on some days, and kids do like to go sledding and have to wear warm clothing.

For whatever this is worth there are a couple of Finnish-American settlements near American Indian reservations in North Dakota and the two groups have intermarried pretty extensively. My own grandfather was Finnish-American and he spoke no English until he went to school.

The town I grew up in was Rolla, North Dakota, near the Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation in Belcourt, North Dakota. Unfortunately, domestic violence and child abuse are quite common on the reservation there for many reasons. There are also a lot of Finnish surnames in the Stanley, North Dakota area which is closer to the Fort Berthold Indian Reservation which has Mandan, Hidatsa and Arikara Indians. Of course American Indians and their families live in towns all over the state and in surrounding states. They'd probably have relatives in Montana, Minnesota, South Dakota or even Michigan, where there are also a lot of Finnish-Americans. The climate is similar in all of those states. I think you said he mentioned a "mine" in one of your posts. North Dakota does have coal mines, but they're above ground. Lignite is one of the most famous areas in the state for coal mining. There was also some mining done in the hills around Minot in the early to mid twentieth century.

Some of the older Finns in the state still speak what is now an archaic version of Finnish, according to my cousin who recently went to Finland as an exchange student and learned modern Finnish. The people on the Turtle Mountain reservation have a sort of dialect/speech intonation that is heavily influenced by French and Cree/Ojibwa. Dancing at pow wows is also pretty popular with Indians on both the Turtle Mountain and Fort Berthold reservations. Kids as young as 2 are dressed up in really bright costumes with feathers and beads and they dance in competitions for prize money. They have categories for tiny tots, children, teens, adult men and women. Some of the dances are jingle dress, fancy, etc. It's a really festive occasion the kids look forward to. There is drum music and the typical Indian language songs. Your previous post made me wonder a bit if he might have been talking about a dance at a pow wow. I have no idea if any of the words he's used are American Indian in origin but it might be an interesting thing to check out. They have annual pow wows on the reservations, at college graduation ceremonies and people travel to other states and provinces to compete.

If you believe what he's saying might have some basis in a past life, I'd say it's as plausible as anything else that a Finnish-American woman could have had an abusive Indian boyfriend or husband and there was an incident of domestic violence or murder of her and her children. Some of what he's recounting sounds a lot like a mix of the two cultures to me. It also sounds like he could have mixed up different possible past lives or things he saw or heard on TV or from people in his life. Any kid is going to be pretty confused and mix up fantasy and reality and dreams.

I have zero past life memories and am something of a skeptic, even though I'm very interested in the topic and in history. If past lives do exist, I doubt if we're intended to remember them too clearly. It's hard enough living in the present. All this is interesting, if disturbing, but if Kade were my child I think I'd want him to forget this as quickly as possible, though I'd certainly let him talk about it and listen in a nonjudgmental manner. I'd definitely find out what is going on in his present life that might be bringing up the images of violence.
 
Thank you bookworm for the information. Kade did say Todd had black hair. Is Todd a common Indian name? He did say Todd was mean when he would drink. Indians were known for alcohol abuse. I don't know if it is still a problem.

I too am skeptical. That is why I am trying to hard to put the pieces together-to see if it really happened. I do believe there are things above human understanding. I am keeping an open mind about reincarnation or a little Stephen King in the making.

The boy is a normal child. The only thing major going on in his life is his father has a terminal disease. I really do not think Kade understands how sick his father is; he is not bedridden. I don't think he realizes this disease is killing his father slowly.

He came out with this for no reason. Nothing was said to him. The first thing he spoke of was that his mother taught him to press leaves. Where did he come up with this? He was not exposed to other children and his television viewing is monitored.

We never bring up the subject to him. Things did not tumble out like marbles in a glass but rather slowly over the months. He has been very consistant in the things he tells. The only new thing in a couple of months is Todd had black hair.

Is there mining in North Dakota? Are there areas where there may not be electric lights or indoor plumbing? The game he spoke of comes from 1950's.
Where would he come up with a game called Moon Tag and recognize the box? He cannot read. So many questions, and I have no answers.

Would crimes commited on reservations be treated as a state crime?
 
Serious felonies on a reservation would be a federal offense heard in district court and would probably be reported in the paper eventually. Other crimes are handled in tribal courts. I'm a newspaper reporter and in my experience there are a lot of violent crimes on the reservation that are NOT reported in the mainstream media right away or at all. The cops on the reservation don't like to tell us about things and it's hard for us to get information some of the time. Murder, however, would definitely have been reported statewide. I don't remember a case of any Indian child being murdered in North Dakota in the last 20 years, though I'm sadly aware of a lot of cases where children were abused or witnessed the murder of or attack on a parent. Yes, drinking and drug abuse are terrible problems on the reservation and would have been years ago too. So many incidents of domestic violence and murder are directly related to alcohol abuse on the reservation.

Most Indians have ordinary first names. Todd was a fairly common first name for men born in the 1960s or early 1970s. I went to school with a couple of Todds. I don't know about the name Seen/Sean, but I did know a girl named Shawn when I was in school. It sounds like it could be a nickname for something else like Cynthia.

Yes, there are still homes on the reservation that don't have lights or indoor plumbing, particularly up in the hills. It's a very impoverished area. It's also quite transient, so it might be possible that this family he's talking about lived in North Dakota and moved somewhere else several times. There is some mining, but not to the extent there is in a place like West Virginia. There's coal mining around a town called Lignite and around Underwood and Washburn. There would also be mining in the Minnesota or Michigan areas. I do know there's also a substantial Finnish-American settlement in a mining area in Minnesota. I think it's called the Iron Range, but I'm not really sure. If you've seen that film North Country, that's the area it was set in. There are tribes related to the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa in Minnesota.

It sounds like your grandson and the whole family are under a lot of stress. He might not understand at a conscious level about his daddy, but he's probably feeling the tension anyway. I went through a stage where I was preoccupied with death, afraid my parents would die, etc., when I was five or six and my grandfather was dying. If Kade is psychic, he could be picking up on some of that. I actually am more open to psychic phenomena. My brother said some things as a preschooler that he shouldn't have known, like the time my grandmother bought a goldfish to replace his fish that had died. He couldn't have overheard anyone discussing it or known the fish died, yet it was the first thing he asked my grandmother when he saw her. He lost that ability when he got older.

Good luck. He sounds like a neat kid. I hope none of this affects him long term.
 
Thanks Bookworm for all of your info. Welcome to the forum. I know it might take some time but maybe you could read the whole thread regarding the things Kade has said (if you haven't already) You might have some valuable information to add due to your knowledge of North Dakota. We were thinking of Minnesota for awhile but recently kade said he lived in North Dakota.
Do you speak Finnish? You said you didn't recognize the words kade spoke. Could they be an indian dialect. Kade also talked once of having ridden an elephant. Have you ever heard of that in the areas you talked about?
Have you ever heard of Kaleval?
Vicky
 
I actually did skim through most of the previous thread before I answered. I don't speak Finnish, unfortunately. My grandfather was pretty insistent that his children and grandchildren speak only English and refused to speak it to us. I have a first cousin who went to Finland as a teen as an exchange student and learned fluent Finnish there. It's the older people here who spoke Finnish. Their kids and grandkids usually can't speak it, except for a few words here and there. It might have been the same thing in the family we're discussing here. Kalevala is a Finnish word. No, I haven't heard of Kaleval, but again it might be an American Indian word. I don't speak Chippewa or Hidatsa or Arikara but there are still a few fluent speakers on the reservations and the children receive lessons in those languages in school now. I wonder if this child might also be mixing up two different past lives or dreams or memories, whatever. That would be pretty typical for a 3- or 4-year-old at that developmental stage.

The Ringling Brothers has an annual show in the state at a number of sites and I know there are elephants at that show. The State Fair also has had elephants on display at least once that I know of. I covered the story when the elephant got loose and ran down the Midway about 10 years ago. Fortunately no one was badly hurt!
 
this is a great thread!

this is a great thread!

It seems you are at a fork...sort of to follow a therapeutic attitude such as Woolger does, or a past life proof standpoint such as Ian Stevenson, whose primary concern was finding specific continuities.
 
I showed Kade the pictures and got a zero reaction. He had gone to a birthday party and was pretty wound up. They had rented one of those huge jumping things and he had a great time. Needless to say, he was not focused when I showed him the pictures. I will try again when he is a little calmer.

I think the fork I chose is the the one to prove to myself that reincarnation is a fact. I have seen cases on television and have read about it, but my mind still tells me I need some kind of proof.

There are things the boy said that he could not have known about. He uses words I never heard. He is consistant. However, I still wonder if we just don't have a child with an overly active imagination. Maybe he will become a writer. I just don't know. I wish I could find something solid.

It makes sense what bookworm has said about North Dakota. He said his mother had blonde hair and wore a long braid. Todd had black hair and drank a lot. He was mean when he drank. There are hills in ND. To a child hills may appear as mountains. He said his other father liked to take him riding in the hills. He never said if it was by car or horse.

The word diyate or deeyati is a word he used to describe a black dog. When I asked him about a brown dog he said that is not diyati. I won't forget his face when he walked in the door and saw the dog. He started saying "diyati, diyati" and ran and hugged the dog like it was an old friend. He has never done this with another dog. Maybe diyati is a good clue about a language spoken.
 
Kitn,
Sein could have been something like one fourth American Indian. I think Kade
said something about that you drove a car to Kalevala (Festival or Place) Its very possible that Kalevala was some distance from where they lived. I think Kade also said that his other mother was a teacher? Also when Kade said that his other mother made him toast, I wonder how she did that if they did not have electricity? maybe she made the toast in an oven or on a stove.
There are somethings that are unclear yet, but I think that you are much closer to solving the puzzle.

Wizard
 
Wizard, we have made toast on a smoker grill and camp fire. My great-grandmother had a wood burning cook stove. She mostly made biscuits but I remember her making toast occasionally. That was a treat back then. If I remember right, the top had solid covers almost like a sewer lid cover with a handle. The cover could be taken off. I believe she laid the bread on top of the cover while the stove was hot; flipping it when it was toasted. That was over fifty years ago.

Kade was here all day. He did not bring anything up. He was very tired and we lay down for a while. He said to me "lets talk about something." I asked him what he wanted to talk about, opening the door for him, but he said nothing.
 
I forgot to add something. He did say his mother taught lessons. I wonder if she could have been a teacher on a reservation. Maybe that is where she met "Todd."

Maybe his father had died and that is why he said he did not live with them. He said he loved his father and he used to take him riding in the hills. He also brought him chocolates (a treat coming home from work). Maybe they were not divorced or separated as I previously thought. She could have been a widow and had taken a teaching position to support her family.
 
Kevala
The highest stage of knowledge in the Jain faith where each soul dwells in eternal enlightenment and bliss.
Somewhat like the Buddhist Nirvana or the Hindu Moksha. There the self is dissolved after many lifetimes and the soul having made it's way through the five Pathways of Liberation.
Souls who have made it to Kevala are called siddhas or perfect ones.
The greatest thing about this say the Jains is that one totally sheds the body and is striped of all individual characteristics.
 
Hi Kitn,
Can't help but think how beautiful your relationship is with Kade. He's lucky to have you and you him.
I know you have written down some of the things he is saying. Maybe we are not meant to figure this out but you are meant to be his scribe so that he can come to his own conclusion some day.
All the same, until we know for sure, I still enjoy trying to figure it out.
Vicky
 
Thanks Vicki. I love that boy so much. I love all my grandchildren but as they grow up they find their own lives. I cherish all the time with them they allow me when they are small. By the time they are 10-12 Grandma kind of gets put on the back burner; that is normal and is okay.

I have taken care of Kade since he was 3 weeks old and his mother worked days. I had Bill in the hospital bed (quadriplegic) and Kade in my arms. Bill confessed he could not bond with the grandchildren who were born since he was bedridden. He said he loved them but it was different because he could not hold, touch or feel them as he did the others. I suppose I tried to be both grandma and grandpa to make up for his feelings.

He comes over and we ride the fields in the golf cart. We color, make things, play video games and just play from the time he gets here until bed time. The house gets really messy but we have a grand time. His mom gets off at 11 and cleans up our messes while we are sound asleep.

I had been through so much and had given up on life. I could not understand how my heart could go on beating. Then Kade came along and changed everything. He has brought so much joy and hope into my life. It is so much fun to again experience life through a childs eyes. My husband used to say I had the heart of a child and so much faith in life that he was jealous. He said he wished he could see the world through my eyes. I lost that somewhere on my journey through grief. Kade was my shephard through the darkness. Someone knew what they were doing when they sent him into my life. He brightens every day for me.
 
I just wanted to share something with all of you. I received a letter today from a young woman. Below is part of the letter...........

I never knew Casey personally. I don't even think I ever talked to her at our piano recitals. My parents live close to you. I used to drive by Casey's memorial cross everyday. My friend and I went to the visitation services at the funeral home. It was the saddest sight I have ever seen.

I happened upon Casey's Memorial Web Site while searching for something else. I sat there reading with tears in my eyes. I copied and pasted the web site into an email and sent it to my closest friends. For days, I could not get Casey off my mind. That is when I remembered reading on your site if any one had any pictures of Casey at the prom to let you know. Then I remembered I had pictures from one of our piano recitals. It's not the prom, but hopefully you will treasure these just as much...........

When Casey was killed we contacted the man who took the pictures at the prom. He sent us pictures of another girl. We returned then and he searched for Casey's pictures, but they were never found. We have a few but not the professional pictures.

This kind young woman sent me two pictures from a piano recital in 1992. I have movies of recitals, but no still pictures. My heart was touched by a stranger today. She gave me a gift I will forever treasure.
 
(((((((((Kitn)))))))))

What a lovely gift to receive. Thank you for sharing that with us. It really touched my heart.


Ailish
 
Pictures--aah yes, that is why I take them as a profession. Because someday someone may have something that is difficult to get back, like some memories and the pictures help.
Vicky
 
Kade had his fourth birthday party Saturday. There were many adults and four other children. The adults were sitting in chairs on the driveway under the trees for shade. Kade has a toy basketball goal which was sitting near garage. He received one of those flat balls advertised on television. He picked it up and was going to use it for a basketball. He looked at me and said "my other father showed me this" and he ran to the basketball net and tried to throw it in backwards.

I thought maybe he meant his Daddy, but he said "other father." Other than this little bit, he has not mentioned anything else.
 
swinging and singing

I thought I would let you know something new Kade has been doing. It is warm out now and he plays outside quite a bit. When he swings on the swingset, he sings a song. Yesterday when he was swinging here his mother asked me to come outside and listen to him. Whatever he is singing is not English. I thought he may be making up nonsense words. His mother told me when he swings at home he does the same thing-it has the same tune and he uses the same words. I am going to try to tape him on a hidden voice activated recorder. Maybe someone in the forum can tell me what language it is and what he is saying.

I asked him where did you learn that-from your other mother? He said "I don't have another mother, I just made that up." I replied "you did, wow, what a good story teller you are!" He answered "it's not nice to talk about that." I said "so you never had another mother named Susie." He replied "her name is not SUSIE-her name is Sein!" I then asked him where he learned about pressing leaves and he told me he "just made it up." I asked him if he ever saw anyone pressing leaves on TV and he told me "no and I don't want to talk about it anymore because "it's not nice." Nothing else was said.

His other grandmother is staying with them and has been there a few weeks. I am wondering if Kade started telling her things and she told him not to make up things like that because it is not nice. This may be why he chooses not to talk about it anymore.
 
Hi Kitn,

Thank you for the update on Kade! It seems quite possible that his other grandma could be telling him not to make up such stories. Unfortunately not everyone is as willing to explore as you are. ;) Perhaps once Kade's other grandma leaves he will feel more secure talking about things again. Obviously he's a little uncomfortable and is feeling bad about things, so maybe just leave him be for awhile and once the other grandma goes home, just casually mention to him that he can tell you anything. He'll need some positive reassurance that it is okay to talk about these things. He'll come to you when and if he's ready ;)

If you want to try and figure out the language, Xerox has an online language guesser. You can type the words in there it will give you a guess as to the origins. Then you can look it up on one of the online translators (which aren't always accurate, but fairly close). It may take a couple of tries with different phonetic spellings, but you can usually get something close enough to make sense with some persistence. I can help you, if you'd like. :)

Ailish
 
Hi Kitn,
I don't have any experience with children remembering past lives except with my son. He also says the same thing now--that he just made everything up---even the things he couldn't possibly have made up. When i talk to him, the feeling I get, based on what he says, is that they get to a certain place in their development where they can't make sense of these memories. Its like 'time' becomes linear to them and they begin to question how they could have been here before now.
Some of my son's memories were in the form of memories and some were from dreams. He is at the age where he goes to school and hears that dreams are not true and not real. So sometimes when he talks about this, he says 'I just dreamt that-its not real.'
Good luck to you on identifying the language. I'd love to see this whole thing figured out and I hope the other grandma is not discouraging Kade.
Vicky
 
Hello Kitn,

It would be very interesting to hear a record of Kade's song or if you are able to separate some words and could write what they sound like. As some of Kade's memories seem to have a link to the Finnish language and traditions, I'd be willing to try and recognize if he's singing in Finnish.

It sounds to me, too that someone has discouraged Kade and him not wanting to share PL memories is probably a phase that'll pass.

All the best for you and your family,

Karoliina
 
North Dakota Background Information

I grew up on a farm in north western North Dakota during the 50’s. We had kerosene lamps and candles to read by. We never had indoor plumbing and always had an Ice Box, even though we never had ice for it. We had a wood burning kitchen stove and stored our groceries and goodies in the cupboard. My mother gave birth to 12 children and had 9 miscarriages.

One of the fun things that I remember was riding in the hills. All of the roads were gravel so you really couldn’t go very fast. 40 or 50 mph was pretty scary. My older brother would drive and we could go up a hill as fast as we could and when we got to the top he would let off on the gas and it would seem like we were flying. It would tickle the same way a roller coaster ride would.

We got electricity in our area in 1951. The REA brought a pole out to our front yard and put an electrical outlet on it. We ran an extension cord from the pole into the house and had an electric light to read by. I was 6 years old and it was a defining moment in my life. I still love technology. I’m sure the reason our electricity was disconnected is because we couldn’t afford to pay the bill. For a short time we had light that was so much brighter than the kerosene lamps.

This information is provided as background information on North Dakota in the 50’s. The predominant ethnicity in the area was Norwegian with some German and Russian.

Finnish-American Historical Society of North Dakota
108 West 4th Street
Dakota, North Dakota 58344

All of the important genealogical and historical information on North Dakota.
http://www.genealogybank.com/explor...MIvIaNz8D11AIVjCSBCh0aOAZDEAAYASAAEgJ8hvD_BwE
 
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